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[darkangel218]

This message was self-deleted by its author (darkangel218) on Wed Apr 10, 2013, 12:13 AM. When the original post in a discussion thread is self-deleted, the entire discussion thread is automatically locked so new replies cannot be posted.

[Cal Carpenter]

1. No n/t

[joeybee12]

3. Agreed...sorry, being wrong is not the same as having total contempt for humanity...

And spending your entire life making some people's lives miserable.

[Cal Carpenter]

8. Yeah, she sure as shit didn't simply 'make mistakes' as the OP opines

she knew damn well what the effects of her policies would be.

[tblue]

86. If she cared that people hate her

she would have been a different kind of leader. She never gave a damn. Clearly.

[Punkingal]

6. LOL

[darkangel218]

7. You have no spirit.

Empty shell, ready to judge, but never look at itself.

Yikes.

[Cal Carpenter]

16. Wait, I'm the empty shell, ready to judge

when you conclude I have no spirit based on a one word post?

You're a real piece of work darkangel.

[darkangel218]

30. At least i dont judge the dead.

See the difference?

[Cal Carpenter]

34. I don't 'judge the dead'. I judge murderous terrible political leaders

whether they are dead or not.

See the difference?

[cali]

59. ridiculous, hon. Death isn't absolution. Sanctimonious palaver.

[gcomeau]

87. I see the difference.

One is judging someone based on reams of available information about their entire life and reaching entirely justifiable conclusions about them.

The other is what you did.

[LeftishBrit]

104. Better to judge the dead, than to judge and punish the living who are poor, sick, unemployed, etc.

And why should you not judge the dead? I can see that waiting until someone's dead before attacking them might be cowardly, but being dead does not exempt you from judgement. I have not waited for her death to condemn her. I feel exactly the same way now about Thatcher as I did last week, or last year, or 30 years ago.

Would you think that it's wrong to judge Genghis Khan because he's dead?

[cleanhippie]

112. No you don't, you just do that to the living.

What the fuck.

[treestar]

124. I know I lose the internet by this

but we do that all the time. You wouldn't say anything good about Hitler would you? Just because he's dead? Of course we will judge him.

Thatcher may not rise to that level, but she was not someone liberals are going to admire.

[Larrylarry]

146. She was judged long before her death

[Arugula Latte]

29. And you, darkangel, are a part of the problem.

See my post #20.

[darkangel218]

37. Im not part of anything, ms Argulla.

Once someone has passed let them be. Criticise them while they're alive , but now they are SPIRIT only. LET THEM BE!!!

[MadHound]

41. Wow, so you think that we shouldn't criticize anybody, no matter what they did,

Not just Thatcher, or Reagan, but Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, and far too many others to name here, is that right? We shouldn't speak ill of any of the dead?

[Arugula Latte]

46. "Poor Hitler! People are so mean to him and the man is dead!"

Maybe you are a fan of revisionist history. Maybe you think it's good to build this awful, awful woman up so she can be used as a symbol of past glories, like that fuckstick Reagan. Not me, and not most of DU, I'd wager.

Your attitude sickens me.

[Cal Carpenter]

48. Take the spirit talk to a forum on religion. We are talking about POLITICS here

and her POLITICS made her an evil fucking asshole.

[snooper2]

55. you got strange shit happening in your house too?

[ChisolmTrailDem]

126. What is with all this "spirit" stuff? What are you talking about? eom

[pangaia]

166. Suppose I, or someone else, does not believe in 'spirit.'

What is 'believe in?'
What is 'spirit?'

See my point...just a question

[MattBaggins]

249. I have no idea what spirit is so I will criticize away.

[uppityperson]

288. Once someone dies, all their past actions are moot? Nope, criticize their actions forever.

I think you are confusing what she did during her life with having passed into being only a soul or spirit. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

[monmouth3]

32. Wow, I do hope you're careful getting down from that high horse. Nosebleeds and all..LOL.

[Marrah_G]

58. And you are a hypocrite

Unless you were saying nice things about her while she was alive.

[cleanhippie]

111. Wow, you got all that from one post from an anonymous poster?

You must have supernatural abilities! How do you do that?

[sibelian]

223. But SHE had one?

THAT'S your "position"?

Is there the least authenticity to your claim of a belief in "spirits"? Or do you simply find it amusing?

[woofless]

10. HELL no.

[Katashi_itto]

262. Hell No. I'll cheer for Republicans as they snuff it too. They would have half the country starving

Fuck being polite to the other side anymore. You can take your pious crap and shovel it.

[cthulu2016]

2. This call to pile mysticism atop hypocrisy is rather weird

[darkangel218]

348. Where does your scren name come from? lol!

Original version of your post: "Is this meant to be a joke? Fuck Margaret Thatcher."

[marmar]

4. So her spirit is bothered by a a critical analysis of her record as prime minister?

Dios mio......

[darkangel218]

350. You call grave dancing "critical analysis"?

Dios mio is quiet correct, considering the fest.

[liberal N proud]

5. Suppose the same could be said for Ronald Reagan too?

[TimberValley]

9. Agree - and recommend this post.

I've found to my disappointment that some DU'ers don't seem to be any better than some right-wing fundamentalists.

[Arugula Latte]

23. I'm disappointed in DUers who want to paper over the past and lionize egregious leaders

and thus give legitimacy to their swaths of destruction.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

38. The Brits have a legitimate reason to be happy

Or sad, or whatever else they feel. They LIVED IT. They had skin in the game.

But most of these posters are bound to be people who have never left their area code let alone spent one nanosecond abroad and moreover still have the same fucking problems they had the day before she died -- rent, student loans, medical bills etc.

I'm not a fan of her policies -- what I know about them -- while also conceding that I miss some of the nuances of British politics just as they miss many of the nuances of our politics.

At any rate, it's just bad karma IMO.

[MadHound]

60. You are missing a lot more than just nuances,

But also the fact that Thatcher policies and philosophy did, and continue to adversely effect our own society and country.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

68. Meh, not so much

But I know that's a popular meme this week for those desperate to be a part of her death festivities.

[MadHound]

81. No, it is actually a fact,

Her anti-government, free market philosophy laid the groundwork in this country for her "special friend" Reagan to come along and immulate. Hell, Reagan's busting of the air traffic control union was a page out of Thatcher's playbook. She is revered amongst conservatives today, second only to St. Ronnie himself. Oh, and let's not forget that it was Maggie dear who helped push Bush the Elder into Iraq, and we know where that led.

Much more than a meme, it is historical reality.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

93. She didn't invent union busting

Our own plutocrats were highly skilled at that before she left the womb. You are giving someone who is an otherwise rather inconsequential figure in world history a lot more gravitas than she deserves.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

117. That's the best you've got

The old "you've got no fucking idea what you are talking about if you disagree with me" doo-dah.

Oh how I enjoy playing tag with the daft.

[Cal Carpenter]

129. Seriously though

You are wrong. It's not about a 'disagreement'. It's not an opinion.

Just look at all the articles about her legacy all over the media this week, both positive spins or negative analysis.

No one can claim that she is inconsequential in world history, whether they love her or hate her.

This is not my opinion. She was a major figure in the advancement of an economic system that continues to impact the whole world, in addition to her domestic policies for which she is roundly criticized. Whether or not that impact is 'good' or 'bad' may come down to opinion in the philosophical sense, but you are claiming that she is "an otherwise rather inconsequential figure in world history".

I won't go so far to call you daft for it, though. Just clueless. It's probably not your fault

[Floyd_Gondolli]

134. My point was she didn't invent union busting

Now, please provide documentation THAT SHE DID.

If you can't grasp that simple concept, if you can't provide an answer to it, if you can't confront it as a rational adult then you are daft, but "it's probably not your fault"

As it is you're putting me to sleep.

[Cal Carpenter]

147. Ummm

I don't see anyone claiming she invented union busting. I never said anything about it.

I rarely use this term since it is overused and often wrongly so, but that's quite the strawman.

However, I have been responding to your ACTUAL words and if you don't feel like defending them I suppose we just have to agree that I am right

[Cal Carpenter]

165. Game over

I've made my point. You think Thatcher is "an otherwise rather inconsequential figure in world history". You haven't even addressed this let alone admitted that you are factually incorrect (which can be proven by a glance at most any news site this week). You can have the last word. Call me whatever you want. I'm not that sensitive.

[MattBaggins]

250. Oh how I enjoy playing tag with the daft

Is that a game played in front of a mirror?

[HangOnKids]

276. Ahhhhhhh!!! I just screamed out loud in my office

[Cal Carpenter]

76. Bad karma?

Go some new age bullshit website if you think 'bad karma' is the problem here. If you think 'good karma' will stop the right-ward lurch of western politics that she and Reagan were a huge part of and that still continues today.

Do you think babies who are blown to bits in wars are just people with 'bad karma'?

Do you think working class people who lose their livelihoods to RW bullshit are just people with 'bad karma'?

Do you think the capitalism bulldozing of half the fucking world advanced by Thatcher, Reagan et all is deserved because people have 'bad karma'?

THIS IS FUCKING POLITICS, NOT RELIGION.

[Floyd_Gondolli]

80. Try this

Reading comprehension is apparently not your strongsuit though setting your hair on fire apparently is.

[Cal Carpenter]

95. ...says the guy who thinks Thatcher's policies

don't impact the world 'so much' despite people a pile of evidence to the contrary, some of which is referred to on this thread.

Maybe understanding history just a teeny tiny bit may make us better equipped to deal with reality instead of worrying about 'karma' on a political message board.

[HangOnKids]

110. But but but

the little picture was so cute. You go Cal, you are busting up this thread big time! I love it!

[Cal Carpenter]

137. Aw thanks

I always seem to have fun here when I'm in a feisty mood, especially if it coincides with people lamenting the insensitivity of grave-dancing about the death of a fucking asshole

[truebrit71]

164. Me too...

...tell all the miners she fucked over, the entire towns her policies destroyed that she was "inconsequential"....what a galactically stupid thing to say...

[Floyd_Gondolli]

116. I'll worry about whatever I wish

But thanks for the concern.

[sibelian]

226. Can you hold that pose a little longer?

I've lost the cable release.

[OwnedByCats]

211. Hell I lived there for ten years

and I still don't understand some things regarding their government, politics etc. lol

I love Britain, I miss it - way too much. One thing I noticed was when it came to politics, at least amongst my family and friends (can only speak from my own experience) it never dominated conversation. It never caused arguments, in fact it was rarely even discussed and when it was, it was painless - not chock full of hate if you don't agree on every single issue. Politics never played a role in whether they like someone or not. You would rarely see family and friends fall out because they didn't agree on politics. The UK is pretty liberal compared to us so it's not all bad! I didn't live there in the Margaret Thatcher days, however no matter what she may or may not of done - the UK survived and it has survived a lot worse. Things have been pretty bad there the last maybe 5 years with the economy (just like everybody else at the moment) but I think on the whole, American liberals would love it there. Yeah it's not perfect, but what country is? They have far more compassion for their citizens than we do for ours, that's for sure.

When I think about England's history, they have come a long way from where they started. They went from a monarchy that was allowed to put people to death at will, and in some of the most heinous ways, to a country that has no capital punishment and the monarchy is now just there for show and to make money off the tourists. People used to be killed for not believing in the right faith. People starved in the street living in extreme poverty. Most of my ancestors came from England and part of that was because of oppressive England. Now you can believe in any faith you want, or not believe, without the fear of being hung, drawn and quartered, burned to death, boiled in water, beheaded - the list goes on. We cannot even begin to appreciate how horrible life used to be for people in the old world. I would take Margaret Thatcher and Parliament over an evil monarchy any day of the week once I put it into perspective.

Now this isn't aimed at you Floyd because I agree with you, but I don't know if her being mentioned in the same sentence as people like Hitler, Pol Pot and Stalin was meant to be a comparison - I would certainly hope none of you would be so silly as to go there. I don't care for grave dancing and it happens here a lot. It's quite distasteful but freedom of speech and all that, right? If there is a God, she will be judged accordingly. If there isn't, she's just a pile of dust, gone for good. As far as those of us still living condemning the dead, I think we should take the higher road. I have to be in agreement with Floyd. Bad Karma. But by all means, carry on as you wish.

[sibelian]

228. Eloquently said.

THAT's a position I can respect.

[backscatter712]

11. No.

I don't believe in afterlife or spirits, but if I did, I would hope her spirit's in anguish.

She ruined millions of lives. Fuck her.

[forestpath]

12. Boo fucking hoo.

[MadHound]

13. All the people she killed with her policies,

All the lives she ruined, that is what is disgusting. Tell you what, go take your pious pity party over to a pub in one of the old coal mining towns in England and see how well it plays over there. One can hope you'll get back out of the door alive.

[Cal Carpenter]

18. [phone]

[Tanuki]

15. Errrr...

[img]http://ts2.mm.bing.net/th?id=H.4804299789109247&pid=15.1[/img]

[Poll_Blind]

17. No. Fuck her spirit, fuck her memory, fuck the sick institutions she was a part of. nt

PB

[southernyankeebelle]

19. I think people should be respectful of the dead. However, you should understand

that the people who were effected by her policies see things different and in England they show their disdain at once. They don't gloss over a person's history like in america where there are some who still think of Reagan as Saint Reagan and he wasn't. But I at least I would like to wait a couple of months after the person is buried.

[Arugula Latte]

20. No.

I actually find your post to be disgusting.

This is why:

...This demand for respectful silence in the wake of a public figure's death is not just misguided but dangerous. That one should not speak ill of the dead is arguably appropriate when a private person dies, but it is wildly inappropriate for the death of a controversial public figure, particularly one who wielded significant influence and political power. "Respecting the grief" of Thatcher's family members is appropriate if one is friends with them or attends a wake they organize, but the protocols are fundamentally different when it comes to public discourse about the person's life and political acts...

But the key point is this: those who admire the deceased public figure (and their politics) aren't silent at all. They are aggressively exploiting the emotions generated by the person's death to create hagiography. Typifying these highly dubious claims about Thatcher was this (appropriately diplomatic) statement from President Obama: "The world has lost one of the great champions of freedom and liberty, and America has lost a true friend." Those gushing depictions can be quite consequential, as it was for the week-long tidal wave of unbroken reverence that was heaped on Ronald Reagan upon his death, an episode that to this day shapes how Americans view him and the political ideas he symbolized. Demanding that no criticisms be voiced to counter that hagiography is to enable false history and a propagandistic whitewashing of bad acts, distortions that become quickly ossified and then endure by virtue of no opposition and the powerful emotions created by death. When a political leader dies, it is irresponsible in the extreme to demand that only praise be permitted but not criticisms....

http://www.guardian.co.uk/commentisfree/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-death-etiquette

And this is also why:

...Really, it’s hard to argue with former London mayor Ken Livingstone, who remembered Thatcher on Sky News yesterday:
"She created today’s housing crisis. She created the banking crisis. And she created the benefits crisis. It was her government that started putting people on incapacity benefit rather than register them as unemployed because the Britain she inherited was broadly full employment. She decided when she wrote off our manufacturing industry that she could live with two or three million unemployed, and the benefits bill, the legacy of that, we are struggling with today. In actual fact, every real problem we face today is the legacy of the fact that she was fundamentally wrong."...
http://www.salon.com/2013/04/09/the_woman_who_wrecked_great_britain/

Reagan's legacy is still harming us ("government is the problem&quot . If Thatcher's legacy gets whitewashed, it is all the more difficult to reverse course.

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

62. Yep, she's being fondly remembered here...

...because of the way we've turned Reagan into a saint and their relationship.

[backscatter712]

84. +1000!

[pa28]

89. Yes! Exactly why NOW is the perfect time to examine her legacy.

Her enabling of a bloody dictator, her war on her own people. All of it.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

256. Rec. Well said.

[sigmasix]

284. nail on the head

Since when is it wrong to hold someone, dead or alive, responsible for the murders they have committed and lives they destroyed. Thatcher was an evil person in a position of global leadership. She continued to spread her evil until her death. Her dead body deserves as much respect as she showed for the lives of Britain's miners and the rest of the working class. Perhaps the grease from the dead meat that was her body could be used as some sort of lubricant for the vehicles of the working poor. She was just plain evil when she was alive- her death has not mitigated her evil policies or fixed the lives she destroyed.
She didnt use her time here to do good deeds; she frittered her time away with concentrating on the destruction of the lives of the poor and sick. If she had chosen to spend her life helping the poor she would have earned the kind of respect that MSM and right wingers want to heap on her- but she didn't help anyone but the ultra-super rich and right wing reactionary extremism. Fuck her and the meat she left behind.

[Brickbat]

21. No. Dying doesn't give someone's legacy a pass.

[darkangel218]

51. There ia no legacy after death.

How long has it been since she's been PM?
Policies can be changed, but cursing and hating her spirit can not. Regardless if you are spiritual or not. I bet you wouldn't want your close family memebers being judged the way you judge this person.

[PETRUS]

96. leg·a·cy - noun

1
: a gift by will especially of money or other personal property : bequest
2
: something transmitted by or received from an ancestor or predecessor or from the past <the legacy of the ancient philosophers>

[Cal Carpenter]

120. *chuckle*

[markpkessinger]

264. If one of my close family members had done what Maragaret Thatcher did to her people . . .

. . . I would be among those judging that family member every bit as harshly, and more so, than the well-deserved thrashing Thatcher's memory is receiving!

[darkangel218]

268. What exatcly did she do?

Can you reply without the help of Google? I bet you can't .

[LeftishBrit]

291. Instituted massive public service cuts; crushed the unions; destroyed much of British industry and

increased our dependence on the financial industry;instituted an attitude of 'the devil take the hindmost; get rich quick if you can, and who cares about those whom you trample on while doing so'; moved my country much more to a laissez-faire economic system; starved education and the NHS;ganged up with Ronnie Reagan on most issues; supported Pinochet and the South African apartheid regime; etc. etc. And helped to make it respectable for people in general to hold such views!

And the effects have been international. It was not isolated to one tiny corner (mine) of the world - it was spread, with the help of the Maggie-Ronnie collaboration, to many places. And it continues still.

And no, I don't need Google to answer; I was very much there.

[WinkyDink]

329. You think the BRITS DON'T KNOW?

[WinkyDink]

328. I don't know about YOUR family, but mine aren't FASCISTS.

[The Link]

22. I'd like to know who found all the horcruxes.

Read on Facebook or Twitter.

[Lucinda]

33. Oh my!

I tend to agree with the Op but that was funny!

[backscatter712]

78. Actually, I discovered the secret...

Margaret Thatcher is Dolores Umbridge!

You've never seen the two of them in the same place!




Margaret Thatcher is Dolores Umbridge's muggle disguise! That explains her policies!

[99Forever]

24. She gets the same amount of compassion...

... she had for the working poor.

In other words, not one fucking bit.

Fuck Margaret Thatcher and every other POS that shares her greedy, selfish philosophy. People like her makes me wish there actually was an afterlife so she could spend the rest of all eternity roasting on a spit over the fires of Hell.

If you don't like it, then just put me on ignore, 'cuz quite frankly, you are out of line trying to tell anyone that they should comply to your personal agenda.

[Nye Bevan]

25. .

[HangOnKids]

91. What a great fucking photo!!!!

Thanks for posting it AGAIN!

[limpyhobbler]

302. LOL awesome

[TroglodyteScholar]

26. The view must be amazing from up there on your high horse.

But maybe you could find a better topic over which to shame people your fellow Democrats...support for unnecessary wars, blinding accepting the erosion of privacy rights, endorsing government policy that screws the poor...many more appropriate issues come to mind pretty easily.

[hollysmom]

27. the very same could be said of Hitler

Seriously - when you die, the good and bad can be remembered - was there much good in Margaret?

Oh, yes, she was not nearly as bad as Hitler.

[Cal Carpenter]

28. Post 14:

darkangel218
14. Im out of here.

I don't want to be between hating vitriol. You might as well be for death penalty and murder. Assholes!! What goes around comes around!!

[trumad]

43. LOL---I wonder what made him delete?

Poor guy.

[Arugula Latte]

50. Still here, though.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

57. Don't hold your breath

That's retirement post number 1,512....

[pa28]

83. Wow, what happened to all that happy bullshit about respecting the spirit?

Hopefully that one stays well away from sharp objects.

[CreekDog]

201. oh, it's just Tuesday

they always threaten to leave on Tuesday.

[trumad]

31. I suppose you will say the same about Dick Cheney?

He made mistakes? Forgive?

Is that what you're going to say?

[darkangel218]

61. Yes thats what i will say.

This Earthly experience is not ALL. Our spirit is milenium years old. This experience on earth only teaches us. We need to get past the hate and learn to forgive and let go.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

65. Aw, shit....

....you mean someone's going to put her in charge to fuck things up somewhere else????

[backscatter712]

74. I heard when she went to Hell, she'd already shut down five furnaces! n/t

[irisblue]

286. Istartled the cat laughing so loud^^^^ nt

[LeftishBrit]

297. I don't believe in Hell, but if I did...

I would be seriously thinking that it would soon be out of commission, because Maggie would be destroying the coal industry there too.

[Arugula Latte]

133. It's like when you get the nasty third grade teacher, survive that year,

and then she up and transfers up to teaching fifth grade, and you're screwed again!

[trumad]

66. Wait a minute---in post 14 you said you were out of here...

Is this your spirit posting?

[darkangel218]

79. Where did i say that?

[trumad]

140. You know lying is bad for the spirit?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2641367

[tkmorris]

148. Oops

[backscatter712]

152. Nice catch!

[darkangel218]

219. This post is not about me, ia about respecting those who have passed.

[WinkyDink]

330. Sentimental twaddle. Go feel sorry for Stalin and Pol Pot, too.

[darkangel218]

342. You do that. nt.

[darkangel218]

218. So is vilifying the dead.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

309. So you admit you lied? Shit I hope that doesn't affect the soul of that lady from the beach movies

who just died. Her getting through customs in the spirit world is now in jeopardy thanks to you.

[darkangel218]

318. I never said i didnt type that, i just asked where.

Since I erased it. So no, I didn't lie.

Try again.

[zappaman]

215. You've said it a dozen times since being here.

Mostly in META, but why do you keep coming back?

[TimberValley]

97. As you can observe in this thread..........

............people who have hatred in their hearts don't usually respond well to being informed that they are acting hatefully.

[laundry_queen]

279. +1 nt

[Gravitycollapse]

306. lulz

[2ndAmForComputers]

345. Exceedingly excellent reply.

[Gravitycollapse]

305. Are you joking? Tell me this is a joke. Fucking wingnut mysticism bullshit.

[Ganja Ninja]

232. Yeah you better get in your digs against Cheney now while you still can.

Once he's dead it's all Cherubs and Harps.

I think everybody but him knows where he's headed.

[RedstDem]

35. disgusting hate indeed

For a disgusting person, kinda fitting isn't it?

[tkmorris]

36. You don't know who she was, do you?

"She made mistakes"... no she didn't. She intentionally and quite deliberately made a great many people miserable. Is there some reason you aren't interested in giving THEIR spirits any rest?

[blogslut]

39. You must be young.

[dipsydoodle]

142. Same applies in general

to those who took part the "street parties" which were organised on Facebook here in the UK. Today's pics in our media confirm that to be so.

Over here sheep come to mind.

Police officers were injured and arrests were made as protesters held street parties in cities around Britain celebrating the death of Margaret Thatcher.

One officer was taken to hospital and five others were injured in clashes in Bristol after a street party turned violent. A man was arrested after revellers refused to leave the street party, and threw cans and bottles at police, according to Avon and Somerset police. A police vehicle was damaged and an officer remains in hospital. His injuries are not thought to be serious.

Police said the group "refused requests to peacefully disperse", leading to the use of shields and batons by officers. A spokeswoman said police received a number of calls from residents about the party.

She said party-goers were "throwing stuff around and starting fires" before police arrived.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/09/police-arrests-thatcher-death-parties

[AgingAmerican]

40. Mistakes? Not perfect?

Um, her 'mistakes' were intentional.

[RebelOne]

42. I never paid much attention to Thatcher, so I have no opinion of her.

I wasn't concerned about what happened across the pond though I visited there twice, but I didn't care about Britain's politics.

[HERVEPA]

44. Checking out your history of hidden posts

sounds like you don't quite practice as you preach.

Oh, and fuck her spirit, whatever that is.

[LancetChick]

45. All this hate against Margaret Thatcher is appropriate.

GOOD RIDDANCE!

[snooper2]

47. there is no such thing as "spirits" or any other woo woo "over the magic clouds" crap

She is dead...

bodily functions don't work. She can't read or hear anything. Body has ceased to function.

So it REALLY doesn't matter LOL...


When snooper kicks the bucket feel free to talk all the shit you want

[backscatter712]

63. I'm with you there.

She's worm food. Nothing more.

If she had an eternal spirit, it'd be roasting in Hell right now. But as I don't believe in Hell or the afterlife, such speculation is moot.

What can I say? That subhuman Nazi reptile is getting all the respect she earned.

We're all here to pay our respect. It's just that the debt of respect we owe her is negative.

[MotherPetrie]

49. Being born and dying and doing lots and lots of damage in between doesn't deserve any respect.

[Orsino]

52. Those weren't "mistakes" she made.

They were policies which hurt and killed people.

If all she ever faced we're a few days of hate on an Internet message board, she would be getting off easy.

And she is.

[AndyA]

53. Thatcher may be gone, but the results of her actions live on

People in high positions of power must live up to a higher standard, as others lives are in the balance. She did what she did for a reason, and in doing so she hurt a lot of people.

Margaret Thatcher could have made a real difference for the better, she could have expressed her love of mankind and her care and concern by doing positive things that would have helped those most in need. She chose not to.

[Marrah_G]

54. LOL what?????????????

Hahahahahahahahahahah

[DrDan]

56. agree - but realize the message will fall on a lot of deaf ears

This place can be very cruel at times.

[Arugula Latte]

77. Please explain why it's "cruel."

She's dead. She doesn't know. She can't hear any more. Talk about a message falling on deaf ears.

Do you care nothing of the true life-and-death cruelty of her policies and the suffering she inflicted on millions?

Do you think just because she died that that wipes away all the horrible things she did?

Should people not remember that she considered Pinochet to be a friend and Nelson Mandela to be a terrorist?

Should her legacy be given a sparkly coat of paint so future politicians can point to her and say: "I'm just like that great leader, Margaret Thatcher!" like they do with Reagan?

Is there no spectrum of criticism allowed? Should we all say only glowing things of Hitler now or Cheney, after he dies?

Seriously, do you not understand how ridiculous and dangerous this speak-no-evil line of thinking is?

[DrDan]

85. grave dancing has never been something I am fond of . . . but you are certainly free to engage

[TimberValley]

107. Yes, DU can be a very mean-spirited message board. n/t.

[DrDan]

114. I guess it is from the anonymity

[truebluegreen]

121. Boo-effing-Hoo

Your concern is noted.

[HangOnKids]

213. You are free to leave....

[PETRUS]

224. "Free?"

How could anyone hope to experience freedom among all us coercive, big-government leftist types?




( )

[WhaTHellsgoingonhere]

64. Too soon?

[CBGLuthier]

67. You Believe in Spirits. You let her rest. I don't. I believe she destroyed the only

lives many had. What you call mistakes I call inhumane and monstrous.

[ProudToBeBlueInRhody]

69. Maggie Thatcher is dead....and Nelson Mandela lives on

There is some justice.

[Kelvin Mace]

70. The evil that men do lives after them

I am sorry for her family, and every death diminishes us.

But why may only her supporters speak of her and praise her simply because she is dead?

If the the critics are silent, then those who did not know her, those who did not suffer at her hand, will not know the truth.

Thatcher certainly did not hold her tongue when Irish hunger strikers were dying.

I do not see people telling critics of Pinochet, or Marcos, or Pol Pot, or Marshall Tito to "not speak ill of the dead". Why must Thatcher be given a pass?

[el_bryanto]

71. It depends on what the anger is directed towards

if it is directed to her as a person, than I sort of agree - hatred is not good, no matter how deserving the person is of hated. If on the other hand it's directed towards the policies, philosophies and practices that Ms. Thatcher championed - well that's fair game. She spent her life working for world that was uglier and nastier - and a lot of people are pushing for those same programs and policies today.

And if the anger is directed at that, I don't see a problem.

Bryant

[darkangel218]

75. Thats the thing, they hate her and curse her

Even in her death. Pretty sadistic imho.

[el_bryanto]

88. She hurt a lot of people and made things a lot worse, particularly in Britain

I guess you can't blame people for being mad about that.

Bryant

[darkangel218]

98. Her earthly policies dont equal her spirit.

Would anyone want their family members or themselves being judged even in death?

Life is a learning experience. Many wrong and learn, or not learn, and come back again. Please let her spirit go free. Please stop your hatered :'(

[CreekDog]

102. Since you want us to forgive her, please show me where she asked for forgiveness.

on anything.

thanks.

[truebluegreen]

122. +1000 n/t

[el_bryanto]

113. You are asking on the theory that her immortal soul still cares what I think of her?

I am not sure it does. And if I am going to feel sorry for people I think i will feel sorry for the hundreds of thousands of people who had harder lives because of her actions.

Bryant

[Marrah_G]

125. Yeah, actually they do equal her evil spirit

[cthulu2016]

130. True. Her earthly policies actually exist.

[sibelian]

238. I don't believe you. I don't believe for one second that you have any interest in her "spirit".

Do you know why? You claim further upthread that a poster on an Internet message board doesn't have one.

What do you think SHE would have said about HIM?

Is there a word you say that means anything?

[darkangel218]

241. I dont care if you believe anything.

I have nothing to say to you, remembering your past posts to me. Goodbye.

[Sheldon Cooper]

254. You keep mentioning her 'spirit'.

You do realize that there are dark spirits among us, and they do serve a purpose? If you're going to throw around the mystical stuff, at least understand what you're talking about.

[darkangel218]

265. So now Maggie Thatcher was a "dark spirit".

Lol ok. Goodbye.

[Marrah_G]

289. Absolutely she was

[backscatter712]

298. If she had a spirit, it'd be like the soul of a Sith Lord. n/t

[WinkyDink]

327. Guess what, Sunshine? WE AREN'T SPIRITS HERE.

[Phlem]

73. Wow,

you should check with the Irish and see how many of them want to love on her.

And also am I just supposed to let go of my father in law who abused me as a child for so ling I now have PTSD.

So he just made a few mistakes?

You want me to let his spirit rest as mine is in constant turmoil?

If I were you I'd get off my soapbox, you know nothing.

-p

[Skidmore]

82. Mistakes?

I nominate you for Master of Understatement. Personally, I'm thinking we should have been dancing in the streets here when Reagan died. Mistakes? The policies, actions, and ideologies of these two individuals are still hammering people today.

[Enrique]

90. I disagree, but...

but you said the same thing about Hugo Chavez, so I'll give you that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022495239

[LeftishBrit]

94. Have you any idea what her policies did AND ARE STILL DOING to my country?

And no, none of us is perfect, but it's one thing not to be perfect, and another to turn one's country's policies way to the right; to promote a culture of greed, of harshness, of kicking people when they're down; to destroy most of a country's industrial base, throwing thousands out of work, destroying communities, and making us largely dependent on the financial industry (fastforward to 2008, and did you hear the eggs in our one basket go SMASH?)

Do you forgive Reagan? Will you forgive Bush and Cheney?

And the point is that those who won't let her spirit rest are first and foremost those on the Right who are treating her as the great model for what a leader should be, and are promoting and extending her policies and viewpoints about society! As long as people still think that she made Britain great again; that 'sado-monetarism' (to quote a moderate of her own party); cutting public services and throwing people on the dole and then cutting the dole, etc; denying workers the right to union representation; privatizing everything that moves; throwing many into poverty and many more into fear of poverty that makes a mockery of her vaunted 'freedom' - so long as people are actively promoting such ideology as a Good Thing, then her spirit is NOT resting and is very active. And as long as it is, I will not shut up about opposing it.

This is not a long-ago crime that perhaps one might now forgive and forget; it is an ongoing crime, still being proudly carried out in her name.

I will not rejoice at her death, because in a sense she is not truly dead. As I wrote several years ago in a bitter parody of 'Joe Hill':

'From Major down to Blair and Brown;
From London to D.C.;
Where governments still crush the poor,
You'll there find Maggie T.!'


And in this respect Cameron, Osborne et al are keeping her spirit alive far more than Brown did!

[deutsey]

246. +1

[2ndAmForComputers]

349. You know what? I think s/he does.

[darkangel218]

353. Actually im not too familiar with Thatcher's deeds. my OP wasnt about what she did right or wrong.

It was about respecting someone who just passed away. She's not even burried yet ffs. But I guess that doesn't exist much around here.

Good to know.

[2ndAmForComputers]

355. Not fooling anyone.

[warrior1]

99. No

[CreekDog]

100. Please show me where she asked for forgiveness

and I will consider it.

[upaloopa]

101. No you have to earn respect she didn't earn it.

Your meme has been shown as a fail all day yesterday. You don't just forget what a person did to other people just because they are dead.

[Zen Democrat]

103. Margaret Thacker should be neither vilified nor honored. She should be buried and forgotten.

[BillStein]

216. forgive the cliche

but aren't those who forget the past destined to repeat it?

[Ikonoklast]

105. Thatcher was a bucket of shit poured into Human suit.

I despised her while she was alive, and now that she's dead, this planet will be a better place for it.

Thatcher had no problem destroying people while she was alive.

[darkangel218]

162. Disgusting.

[WinkyDink]

331. Yes, SHE WAS.

[truebluegreen]

106. No.

She earned what she's getting, and more.

[cleanhippie]

108. Noooooooopppppe! She is a major reason things are fucked up right now.

[hrmjustin]

115. I am not for celebrating people's death myself but the women hurt a lot of people.

the response by the people in the UK is what they really feel so I respect their view. After all they lived under her.

[ceile]

118. Mistakes?! She was a horrible excuse for a human being.

If I wasn't pregnant, I would have been down at my local Irish drinking to the memory of those she let starve and celebrating her death with shots of Jameson. Eff her!

[myrna minx]

119. LOL - Mistakes? She crushed the working class.

The legacy of Thatcher and Reagan are still strangeling us. No, she won't be missed. *cough*

[treestar]

123. What about people hurt by her policies

Still alive, too. Do they get any peace?

There are bad people in the world. Dying doesn't turn them into good people.

[CreekDog]

127. Mrs. Thatcher is more offended by YOU and YOUR OP than anything else said about her on DU

I think you've insulted Mrs. Thatcher with your post

how can you ask us to forgive her for doing what she is proud of doing all her life?

forgive her? she must be rolling in her grave at the insult.

you are mocking her, saying she regrets what she doesn't regret.

she actually likes us liberals (which you are not one) because we loathe what she did and to her that is a badge of honor.

she is not offended by me or my hatred of what she did.

she is mortally offended by you for suggesting she regretted any of it.

[Cleita]

160. +1000

[Jamastiene]

283. Well said. n/t

[kestrel91316]

128. Nope.

[Solly Mack]

131. Bovine Caca.

[HughBeaumont]

132. My advice to you would be to steer FAAAAR clear of this site when Dick Cheney dies.

It will be one celebratory gala and revisionism will receive the scorn it rightfully deserves. Every time one of these fascist warmongers leave the planet, we're one step closer to achieving enlightenment and humanity.

[Arugula Latte]

136. OMG, are you gonna be mean to Dick Cheney's delicate, flower-like SPIRIT?!?!

NOOOoooooo!!!

[HughBeaumont]

138. I'll water it in my own special way.

Of course, I'll probably be in a long line.

[Starry Messenger]

135. If I ever did what she did, I'd expect to be

vilified. I think she was proud of being universally hated and would be disappointed by a bunch of stupid fake sorrow over her "spirit".

Thatcher eschewed every opportunity to gain access to the world of favorable human emotion. We're just returning the favor.

[darkangel218]

144. How do you know you have never wronged anyone?

Do you have to be PM to do something wrong?

Let go of hate, it won't help your transcendence.

[Occulus]

163. Attempting to reach transcendance at the expense of the truth results in damntion

[Starry Messenger]

251. No hate here.

I feel great.

[truebrit71]

139. Too fucking bad...She's dead and millions are happy about it...GET.OVER.IT.

She was an evil, mean-spirited b*tch that can't ever be dead ENOUGH...

You feel me now?

FUCK MARGARET THATCHER NOW AND FOREVER.

[boilerbabe]

141. please. there is no such thing as a spirit. please don't expect others to adhere to your

bizarre religious views. that is something the bigoted right wing does.

[JVS]

143. You're very wrong.

[Marr]

145. "Mistakes". lmfao.

Some people are just determined to be suckers, I suppose.

[darkangel218]

150. What about Chavez? or Obama?

Are you going to talk the same after POTUS dies?

Simply disgraceful.

[Marr]

184. How's the air up there?

It's quite a horse you have.

To answer your question, I speak badly of bad people. If a person is deserving of criticism while they're alive, that doesn't change just because they've died. My position will remain unchanged.

I'm sure someone has asked by now, but I've missed the response-- do you say only nice things about Hitler?

[darkangel218]

186. You havent answered mt question.

Apparently anyone who makes mistakes in i should be villified in death too, according to you.

[CreekDog]

188. what mistakes has she asked to be forgiven for?

you seem to be avoiding this question.

how slippery of you.

[Marr]

190. What? About whether I speak ill of Chavez or will speak ill of Obama after his death?

Of course I will. I'll criticize the same things I criticize about him in life after he's dead. Same with Chavez. There were things he did that I liked and respected, and other things that were, IMHO, wrong. That didn't change when he died.

Now will you answer mine? Do you say only nice things about Hitler?

[darkangel218]

192. I wont speak ill about anyone who has passed.

They no longer belong to us, they belong to the spirit world.
We need not to forget, but we need to forgive and move on.

[Marr]

200. Wow. Someone who won't condemn Hitler.

And you are claiming the moral *high ground* here, correct?

You know, many would say that, by refusing to condemn the actions of men like Hitler, you are making it easier for similar people to repeat those actions. That would be a great disservice to actual people living in the real world, would it not?

And this is done in deference to... what? The "feelings" of a cruel man, who now resides in the, as you call it... Spirit World?

[snooper2]

282. where is this spirit world, and are spirits made up of matter?

[steve2470]

149. I understand why the people of the UK feel the way they do nt

[hobbit709]

151. Wait until Darth Cheney croaks.

[Brainstormy]

155. No.

Just no. I don't believe in "spirit" and certainly have no confidence that I could make one's spirit either restless or peaceful. But Margaret Thatcher's death is an excellent opportunity to remember everything I despised about her policies and philosophies and to try to see that she doesn't become another saint like Ronnie.

So no.

[Demonaut]

156. let people vent.....quit laying your values on everyone else , if you don't fucking like it then

don't fucking read it

I'm from the UK, she's more despised there than here....

she caused the world a great deal of pain...and it still lingers

[Douglas Carpenter]

158. people do not improve with death

[PolitFreak]

159. K & FUCKING BIG R!!!

[HangOnKids]

209. Because your tenure here is so stellar!

[WinkyDink]

332. Fascists Unite!

[Benton D Struckcheon]

161. To the living we owe respect, to the dead we owe only the truth. - Voltaire n/t

[Zorra]

167. Why not just let everyone she caused so much suffering to vent their anger?

And yes, of course, I realize that would be most everyone on the planet, as well as our planet itself, but the fact is, the suffering she and Reagan caused continues, and has grown immensely from the seeds of evil they planted in our world. So when people hate on Maggie and Ronnie, it's because people look around them at all the misery, poverty, injustice. and inequality, and they know that much of the evil they see around them is the direct result of the actions of two powerful, sociopathic fascists ~

Margaret Thatcher and Ronald Reagan.

[leveymg]

168. Most of us seem to see this as welcome relief from the phony homilies of politicians.

She was evil and deluded, and did enormous harm in her life. The trappings of office and the security of money and power insulated from feeling any personal consequences of her actions while she was still alive. There are no bodyguards in Hell. Trample with glee.

[darkangel218]

178. Welcome relief to what?

She hasn't been in the office for a long time. What difference does it make ??

[leveymg]

195. Welcome relief from excessive homilies to Thatcher, such as Obama's: "great champion of freedom"

Compare this:

President Obama hails Thatcher as "great champion of freedom."
Source: The Guardian

Barack Obama led tributes from the United States to the former British prime minister, Margaret Thatcher, whose death on Friday led to an outpouring of remembrances that went well beyond normal courtesies.

Obama described Thatcher as "one of the great champions of freedom and liberty" and a true friend to the US. Former president George HW Bush and the Republican House speaker John Boehner also paid generous tributes.

Read more: http://www.guardian.co.uk/politics/2013/apr/08/margaret-thatcher-dies-tributes-obama

To Obama's recent statement at the passing of President Hugo Chavez: http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/right-turn/wp/2013/03/06/obamas-atrocious-statement-on-tyrant-chavezs-death/

“At this challenging time of President Hugo Chavez’s passing, the United States reaffirms its support for the Venezuelan people and its interest in developing a constructive relationship with the Venezuelan government. As Venezuela begins a new chapter in its history, the United States remains committed to policies that promote democratic principles, the rule of law, and respect for human rights.”

Obama could have made the same statement about either, but instead showed where his affections lie.

[Puzzledtraveller]

202. their own predicaments.

[leveymg]

247. I wouldn't be any happier if I were the Baroness, herself. Would you?

Not all aversion and hatred is just avarice and jealousy. Thatcher earned her share of enmity.

[Arctic Dave]

170. Reagen = POS

Thatcher = POS

And all their ilk. Fuck them all.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

171. "Booooooooh! Booooooohhhh!! I aaaaam Maaargaret Thaaaatcher's spiiirit. Aaaaand I doooooon't

give a shiiiiiit about people pooooooosting on the interneeeeeet! Boooooooh. Boooooooo!"

Did you guys hear that?

[rurallib]

172. I am with the groups in England that broke out in spontaneous parties yesterday

[Iggo]

174. Fuck no. (n/t)

[a la izquierda]

175. Nope...

She, like her little buddy Ronnie Raygun, supported monstrous people like Augusto Pinochet in Chile. So excuse me if I don't give a crap that she's dead. Pinochet's regime tortured and murdered thousands.
Hopefully, if there is a hell, she and her cabal are roasting.

[darkangel218]

176. I didnt see any of you so outraged about MT's policies last year

Or last month.,or last weak for that matter.

Pretty hypocritical that all the outrage pours when she crossed to the spirit world.

[Iggo]

230. You didn't ask.

[PETRUS]

236. I've read rants against neoliberalism on DU every day since I started visiting. (nt)

[muriel_volestrangler]

260. OK, we'll see what DU said about her last year

http://www.democraticunderground.com/101616781 :
"i simply have nothing good to say about margaret thatcher"
"Thatcher never met a Labour Movement she trusted"
"vicious old bat"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022084319 :
"pathological LIAR"
"Can't go quickly enough for me. Too bad so many have suffered because of those lying cretins."
"She is an evil evil woman"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10882980 :
"Growth recovering following an op to remove Baroness Thatcher"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014349380 :
"She is a very cold person"
"This is the one that will get me dancing when she kicks it"
"one of the most evil people who ever lived"

and so on.

[WinkyDink]

334. Tough noogies.

[applegrove]

177. Her stance on Apartheid was monstrous.

[darkangel218]

179. Was. She hasnt been in the office forever, let her be!

[WinkyDink]

333. Let her be"? Do you seriously think she cares right about now?

[lastlib]

180. I let go of the anger a long time ago...........

But I'm hanging on to the CONTEMPT for the long haul!

She and her policies, were, and still are, contemptible!!

Give her spirit some rest? No! Forgive? Forgive what she did to so many of her countrymen? HELL, NO!!

Forgive her for her war crimes? FUCKIN' HELL, NO!!!!

. . . . . . . . . . . . . . .

[Kolesar]

181. The theory of the hour: anger can be power -- Joe Strummer

If you know that you can use it

[Babel_17]

182. “there is no alternative”, as we learned from Regan,

you have to set the record straight.

http://www.salon.com/2013/04/09/the_woman_who_wrecked_great_britain/

Though we can keep it classy, like that article.

[Blue_Tires]

183. Well done...I'll give you 8 out of 10 for the concern trolling...

You got the fish to bite without overplaying your hand...

[CreekDog]

187. how much more time do we have to comment before you self-delete the OP?

since you self delete all your OP's, it's good information for people.

[darkangel218]

189. Im not self deleting my OP.

Thanks for tour your pro hatered stance. And don't pm me nonsense anymore please.

[CreekDog]

193. I don't hate Mrs. Thatcher, and I've never said I did, you're asking me to LIKE her policies now

See, since I don't actually hate Mrs. Thatcher, you are criticizing me for what I've said I hated.

which means you want me to:

not hate dictator Pinochet, whom she supported.

not hate calling Nelson Mandela a "terrorist"

not hate opposing actions to end apartheid in South Africa

not hate her position on nuclear arms reduction


see, since i don't hate her, but you are obviously disapproving what i do hate, therefore, you are requiring that i support Tory policies and hawkish war policies --because by opposing these things, you say that i am showing "hatred".

actually, you said "hatered" --which I didn't know was a word.

[darkangel218]

196. Again, dont pm me anymore.

[CreekDog]

199. just so everyone knows, I PM'd you what I posted here

[winter is coming]

222. For pity's sake, use mail block if you don't want another PM from someone.

And use the "trash thread by keyword" feature if you don't want to see people dissing Thatcher.

[CreekDog]

277. usually she threatens to leave if people don't stop disagreeing with her

for some reason that does not silence those people.

[apocalypsehow]

259. You need to quit issuing orders you can't enforce, and familiarize yourself with DU's ignore options

[darkangel218]

261. You obviously dont follow your own words

Lmao!

[apocalypsehow]

257. LOL!

[darkangel218]

263. "LOL"

[Apophis]

191. Good god Are you in love with her or something?

She's a vile woman who should be vilified for eternity.

Get over yourself.

[darkangel218]

194. Let go of your hate. She is dead.

Move on to something that actually matters.

[Apophis]

203. Your sanctimonious bs is kind of annoying.

You have over 40 people ignoring you. Seems like there may be a trend here.

[darkangel218]

204. Feel free to be the 41st. I could care less.

[Webster Green]

270. Didn't you mean to say "I couldn't care less"?

Because if you say "I could care less", what you are actually saying is that .........

ah never mind.

[Puzzledtraveller]

208. Hi

[Hissyspit]

233. The mythologizing and revisionism is ongoing.

So, no, your advice stinks.

[WinkyDink]

336. WTH are YOU to tell anyone what to do?

[darkangel218]

343. Why does it bother you so much what i say? block me if you cant handle it.

[2ndAmForComputers]

347. I'll take that as a "yes."

[Puzzledtraveller]

197. Hate is everywhere and just as much, all attempts to justify it.

[WinkyDink]

337. So why DID Thatcher hate the Working Class? Oh, not HER hate, you say?

[Rex]

198. If you believe in that sort of thing then by all means do so.

The rest of DU will most assuredly to whatever they want to, like always.

[baldguy]

205. I'm not shedding any tears for her, and I don't plan to.

[Puzzledtraveller]

207. why woud you? you didn't know her right?

[HipChick]

206. Fuck Maggie Thatcher

May she rot in hell...

I bet she never lost a wink of sleep at night..

[sibelian]

210. Screw her spirit. With a screw.

Capiche?

The answer to your question is no.

[Kingofalldems]

212. Gee, did she ever apologize for her destructive actions

against working people?

[HangOnKids]

217. Stop With The Logic

We have the spirits to think of.

[Puzzledtraveller]

214. So Margaret Thatcher has this much power over all of you even after her death

BRILLIANT!!

[Ian David]

220. Hitler is dead, too. Should we give him some rest, too? n/t

[darkangel218]

221. Why you keep equating Thatcher with Hitler??

[HangOnKids]

240. Because she was wearing his fucking dresses

Why else?

[darkangel218]

242. yah... ok.

[Ian David]

311. You mean they both wore clothes by Hugo Boss?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hugo_Boss_(fashion_designer)

[HangOnKids]

313. Wow you are sharp!

10 points Ian!

[Ian David]

324. Seriously, did she? n/t

[Ian David]

310. Well, for one thing, they're both dead. Should we be nice about both of them because they're dead?nt

[truebluegreen]

225. Hmm. 4 Recs. I guess that answers the question.

[gaspee]

227. Most people

When they do wrong only affect the people they know. Thatcher, on the other hand, did harm to millions. I see nothing wrong with pointing that out. I think revisionist history around her and those like her do more harm than a little grave dancing.

[Walk away]

229. Not until all the evil she released on the world is over. nt

[Hissyspit]

231. Fuck Margaret Thatcher.

She was a goddamned sociopath and she ruined people's lives and destroyed England.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

271. +1

[ZombieHorde]

234. I have not said anything about her since her passing,

but I wonder why you feel this way, darkangel218?

Why shouldn't people speak ill of the dead?

[darkangel218]

239. Because they are gone. They have left this world, and entered the next.

It's hard for anyone non spiritual to understand. But hating them and wishing them ill even after they passed can keep them from crossing.

It also doesn't help on our own karma to hate the departed ones.

[maddezmom]

243. Sorry, I am not concerned with her "crossing"

If you were really concerned that people saying nasty stuff on DU would impede her "crossing" starting an OP only brought about more bad karma for you and her. Seems like a self defeating OP.

[darkangel218]

245. Brought bad karma for me? LOL i dont think so.

I'm not the one grave dancing. Bad karma goes to those who chose to hate even the dead , instead of letting go.

[ZombieHorde]

244. Thanks for the explanation.

I think I understand where you are coming from now.

But hating them and wishing them ill even after they passed can keep them from crossing.

Is this from an organized religion, or your own personal spiritual belief system, or something else?

Where do you think the spirit "goes" or "is" if it can't cross over?

I put "goes" and "is" in quotes because I don't want to make assumptions about your spiritual beliefs. I am just not very familiar with this belief, and I am curious about it.

[Apophis]

253. She's burning in your hell right where she belongs.

I'm amazed you haven't self-deleted this thread like you always do.

[darkangel218]

344. aww sorry to dissapoint.

[deutsey]

235. I refrain from grave dancing because I just don't want to that

But what Thatcher did went beyond making "mistakes," and I can understand the hatred and anger toward her.

Although I'm not feeling any hatred toward her (hate is just too corrosive, imo), I neither grieve her loss in the slightest nor do I find any reason to forgive her for any of the hell she helped to unleash and foster on this planet.

[MFM008]

237. Thia woman pushed policies

that hurt and killed people. Death does not excuse a review even a harsh one.

[MattBaggins]

248. NO

[AnotherMcIntosh]

255. Want something positive? She had an excellent British accent.

Other than that, it's not clear what she did.

Any ideas?

[WilliamPitt]

266. . . . . . . . . . . .

[La Lioness Priyanka]

267. do you have any tangible proof that her spirit exists? or is restless?

and that the reason her spirit is restless is because i think she was a sociopath?


if you can prove all that to me, i'll stop calling her a sociopath

[Scootaloo]

269. Nope.

The way I see it, the fact that the British people paid her bills for treatment, care, housing, and so much else, when it is absolutely undeniable that she would have denied each and every one of them the same, is more than enough forgiveness than should have ever been afforded to this anti-human fascist fuck. By all rights they should have tossed her in the Thames to fend for herself - surely it's what she would have wanted.

Most of us, when we fuck up, don't fuck up the lives of millions of people and come out of it with a goddamned pension. So spare me that "we make mistakes" stuff. Especially considering none of it was a "mistake." Running over your neighbor's mailbox is a mistake. Horking on the prime minister's lap is a mistake. Enacting policy to crush the livelihoods of thousands, and other policies to strip protections from millions more, all while collaborating with another fascist fuck to create a war just to bolster your own position at home? That's not a mistake.

I won't let this scavenger-bird go until I'm convinced she's worm shit.

[Iggo]

272. I wasn't sure before.

But now you've made it perfectly clear.

[Chisox08]

273. The pain and suffering that she and Reagan caused to their respective nations...

and the world still lives on.
She comforted the comfortable and afflicted the afflicted. Like Reagan she didn't give a shit about the poor or the working class, so why should the poor or the working class care about her. She labeled Nelson Mandela a terrorist and she stood against the anti apartheid movement in South Africa. She was a horrible person and she does not deserve the elevation to sainthood the Reagan got here in America. So like Reagan I hope she found a nice hot place in the pits of hell.

[Agony]

274. Good riddance to putrid rubbish.

getting rid of rubbish is not hateful.

[nomorenomore08]

275. Wait... you're serious?

[johnp3907]

278. Was this cross-posted from Tory Underground?

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

280. At least you finally learned how to spell her name. n/t

[mitchtv]

281. good riddance to bad rubbish

she deserves no consideration in death.Not while the damage she did still hurts people. What a creepy , trollish OP

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

285. Oh, please.

Are you suggesting that the minute a person dies they must never again be criticized because it might cause their "spirit" some unrest? So we can't offer any discussion of the ways in which Thatcher (for example) implemented policies that damaged Britain's economy, for example -- if, for no other reason, to offer a reasoned analysis of why her policies (loved also by Reagan, whom I was happy to criticize while he was both alive and dead) were harmful so maybe they won't be tried again? I assume Thatcher has family who loved her and mourns her death, and of course one should be respectful of that - It would be quite wrong to go to her funeral and walk up to her son and say, "You know, your mother was a vicious old cow and I'm glad she's dead." But don't tell us that death automatically immunizes one from criticism; it doesn't.

And I'm definitely not worrying about hurting the feelings of the spirits of Hitler, Stalin, Pol Pot, Vlad the Impaler, Joe McCarthy, Richard Nixon, or any of the other people who are now dead but who did great harm while they were alive.

There is a middle ground. While one should refrain from unnecessary viciousness, legitimate criticism does not become illegitimate when a person dies.

I do think that this article makes some very good points: http://www.salon.com/2013/04/09/thatcher_warren_haters_dont_cheer_for_death/ "Nobody’s saying you have to be sad Margaret Thatcher has shuffled off this mortal coil, or making you send a sympathy card to Rick Warren. Nobody’s saying, in fact, that you have to take a single day off from despising either of them. Just don’t be a jackass, OK? Few of us will ever attain much power and influence in our lives, but when we’re gone all of us will be measured by how we’re remembered. And who’d ever want to be remembered as the person who saw a family’s loss and celebrated?"

[Notafraidtoo]

287. We have to stop Conservatives from rewriting history about Thatcher.

I will never have respect for a human being who did so much evil to so many people even when they die,to respect evil people in death is to reward their actions in life, this is her punishment for destroying the lives of so many a legacy that we should fight hard never to let be repeated and this is the best time to fight this rewriting of history, most american's didn't even know who she was until she died and the right will not stop to make her out to be a saint.

Also forgiveness is reserved for those that are sorry for their harm full actions she was not because she would proudly do it again.

[snagglepuss]

290. You reap what you sow. Maybe you should read Dickens' A Christmas Tale, namely

the chapter where his servants are scavaging items to sell after his death.

[Beacool]

292. Well, apparently she was not very popular in her own land as hundreds celebrated her death.

As someone who has ties to Ireland and Argentina, I can say that while I'm not dancing on her grave, I didn't shed a tear either.

What goes around, comes around.

[iwillalwayswonderwhy]

293. bad karma for me

I'd like to crush her spirit.

[Rex]

294. According to the OP, you are

doing so merely with bad vibes. At least that is what I think he is saying.

[alarimer]

295. "Mistakes"?

Those weren't mistakes. It was deliberated destruction of the middle class.

She was as near to evil as it gets in a democracy.

[CTyankee]

296. Margaret Thatcher no longer cares what we think. So the only question is our own karma.

Criticizing her, scorning her beliefs and strongly disapproving of her policies, even to the point of shaming her while she was alive is all good and I agree should be done.

However, grave dancing is bad karma, IMO. I just don't do it. There's something creepy about it. We don't have to give up our fundamental beliefs not to engage that that level. We can do better...

[Rob H.]

299. No

I'll be raising a glass and toasting the world's good fortune when Cheney finally kicks it, too. (Same goes for when Rumsfeld and Shrub wake up on the wrong side of the grass.)

[Jamastiene]

300. All this defending a right wing politician on DU is disgusting.

For the record, it is not hate to point out the facts of her life. She was a politician. They leave legacies based on their actions in life. Those legacies live on...unlike many of their victims. People have a right to point those legacies out. That does not constitute hate.

[darkangel218]

303. My OP did not defend anyones policies.

And the grave dancing that is going on around is indeed hate.

[trumad]

307. I have to say..

This is possibly one of the funniest threads ever.

[darkangel218]

317. Glad i could entertain.

[Occulus]

314. Actually, it's pretty glaringly obvious you sympathize with the woman

and it's equally obvious you don't give two flying shits WHAT she did.

In that sense, you're JUST AS BAD as she was. You don't get to defend evil like this and not take its side.

That isn't how it works. Period.

THIS is what and who you are defending, tool:

She supported the retention of capital punishment

She destroyed the country’s manufacturing industry

She voted against the relaxation of divorce laws

She abolished free milk for schoolchildren (“Margaret Thatcher, Milk Snatcher”)

She supported more freedom for business (and look how that turned out)

She gained support from the National Front in the 1979 election by pandering to the fears of immigration

She gerrymandered local authorities by forcing through council house sales, at the same time preventing councils from spending the money they got for selling houses on building new houses (spending on social housing dropped by 67% in her premiership)

She was responsible for 3.6 million unemployed - the highest figure and the highest proportion of the workforce in history and three times the previous government. Massaging of the figures means that the figure was closer to 5 million

She ignored intelligence about Argentinian preparations for the invasion of the Falkland Islands and scrapped the only Royal Navy presence in the islands

The poll tax

She presided over the closure of 150 coal mines; we are now crippled by the cost of energy, having to import expensive coal from abroad

She compared her “fight” against the miners to the Falklands War

She privatised state monopolies and created the corporate greed culture that we’ve been railing against for the last 5 years

She introduced the gradual privatisation of the NHS

She introduced financial deregulation in a way that turned city institutions into avaricious money pits

She pioneered the unfailing adoration and unquestioning support of the USA

She allowed the US to place nuclear missiles on UK soil, under US control

Section 28 (preventing discussion of homosexuality in schools and allowing anti-homosexual teaching)

She opposed anti-apartheid sanctions against South Africa and described Nelson Mandela as “that grubby little terrorist”

She support the Khmer Rouge in Cambodia and sent the SAS to train their soldiers

She allowed the US to bomb Libya in 1986, against the wishes of more than 2/3 of the population

She opposed the reunification of Germany

She invented Quangos

She increased VAT from 8% to 17.5%

She had the lowest approval rating of any post-war Prime Minister

Her post-PM job? Consultant to Philip Morris tobacco at $250,000 a year, plus $50,000 per speech

The Al Yamamah contract (Saudi arms deal - complete with backhanders)

She opposed the indictment of Chile’s General Pinochet

Social unrest under her leadership was higher than at any time since the General Strike

She presided over interest rates increasing to 15%

BSE

She presided over 2 million manufacturing job losses in the 79-81 recession

She opposed the inclusion of Eire in the Northern Ireland peace process

She supported sanctions-busting arms deals with South Africa

Cecil Parkinson, Alan Clark, David Mellor, Jeffrey Archer, Jonathan Aitkin (all were investigated or imprisoned)

Crime rates doubled under Thatcher

Black Wednesday – Britain withdraws from the ERM and the pound is devalued. Cost to Britain - £3.5 billion; profit for George Soros - £1 billion

Poverty doubled while she opposed a minimum wage

She privatised public services, claiming at the time it would increase public ownership. Most are now owned either by foreign governments (EDF) or major investment houses. The profits don’t now accrue to the taxpayer, but to foreign or institutional shareholders.

She cut 75% of funding to museums, galleries and other sources of education

In the Thatcher years the top 10% of earners received almost 50% of the tax remissions

21.9% inflation

---

Taken together and coming out of one person, it's a collection of evil, of darkness of soul and basic lack of grace and humanity for whom hate is not only justified, not only appropriate, but fully righteous and entirely within the bounds of every definition of decency, morality, and ethical human behavior.

Your continuing defenses of her say a very great deal about you, personally.

That is the furthest possible thing from a compliment to you personally I can think of. Your utter lack of condemnation of the type of person who could do such things, and your continuing sole concern that we have to be polite now that she's finally in the ground where she belongs, MAKES YOU HER LACKEY, MAKES YOU HER SYCOPHANT, MAKES YOU HER ADMIRER.

That you do not get that is conclusive proof that you don't care what she did.

Get it now?

[darkangel218]

316. You couldnt be more wrong.

I said the same when Chavez died, and I.will say it again when I see any type of grave dancing, regardless of whom has passed. Judge people while they're alive, let them rest once they are not with us any longer.

[Occulus]

319. Oh, horseshit.

The death of someone as vile as Maggie refocuses attention on her past and what she did to undeserving and innocent people like no other event possibly could. By telling us all to shut up (and that is EXACTLY what you've been doing ALL DAY LONG) and "be nice to her ghost" you're telling us we aren't allowed to condemn the woman and the actions she took. Personal decision, even on matters of policy, do not take place in a vacuum. They are shaped by one's own morals, biases, and senses of ethics and duty to one's fellows. Thatcher utterly betrayed all of that in dozens of ways, and the entire world has paid the price.

That IS defending her, in the smarmiest, greasiest, most propagandistic way you ever possibly could. SHAME on you.

You appreciate what she did. You agree with it, all of it. If you did not, you would be silent in the face of others' condemnations. No moral or ethical or even basically decent person can defend the evils of one such as her, including or perhaps especially following that person's death, yet you have done so at every possible opportunity.

This has nothing to do with you actually believing it's wrong to speak ill of the dead, because the dead are dead. They don't and can't care, even if there is such a thing as a spirit and an afterlife. They have moved on, and it matters not- not one little bit at all- what we in this world have to say about them. Everything you've been saying on this thread is a logically illegitimate rhetorical tool designed specifically to attempt to silence the condemnation of evil you, personally, admire, even if the afterlife is fact.

It goes a great deal further than that, though. If karma and an afterlife do in fact exist, we are recognizing evils done by one person to a very great many innocents. We are recognizing the good in ourselves by condemning that person and their acts against those innocents. We are, in effect, celebrating life, by celebrating the death of a cancer to life. By telling us we aren't allowed to tie the evil to the (wo)man who did it, you are claiming evil people cannot be condemned when they are gone.

That means you're carrying their water, even if you don't intend it. That means you're upholding their legacy, even if you don't intend it. That means you believe they were not, in fact, bad people worthy of condemnation, even if you don't intend it. That makes you, in general and in detail, one of the lieutenants of the very darkness whose departure we are celebrating, even if you don't intend it.

In a word, that makes you wrong, first to last. Entirely. Wholly. And you are not in any position at all to lecture any of us for celebrating their departure. You are mistaking a celebration of life's and time's justice for hatred, and in that act, you only betray and ultimately condemn yourself.

You have my pity. You have my sympathy. But you do not have my attention or my obedience, and you do not have any say in the matter.

You are.... powerless. As you should be.

[truegrit44]

321. + 10000000000000000

[darkangel218]

346. " you are powerless. as you should be "

Is that so? Lmao!! Says who, Occulus?

I don't need others to agree with me, I knew it will fall on deaf ears considering the previous threads.

The one powerless is you since you have to resort to insults to push your point. Lol

[Taverner]

301. I don't hate HER, I hate her POLICY, her LEGACY and the mess we're in now

[WinkyDink]

338. Did she pass her policies by proxy or something? We are ONLY what we do, not more,

not less.

[Gravitycollapse]

304. She was a piece of shit and I'm glad she's dead. There.

[madrchsod]

308. i will not speak evil of those who do not deserve it

[MichiganVote]

312. Honey this ain't nothing compared to what's gonna happen when G.Bush kicks the bucket

I personally can't wait for that.

[scarletwoman]

315. No. No rest for her "spirit". It is by her own actions that she left the world owing a karmic debt.

Nothing changes that debt, it is hers and hers alone.

[itcfish]

320. Did Death Make

Hitler any more humane???

[Logical]

322. What does "spirit some rest" mean? n-t

[bluedigger]

323. I'll respect her rotting corpse, but not her legacy.

If her spirit has a problem with that, it can take it up with me personally in the next life. It certainly has no use for your defense of it in this one.

[MNBrewer]

325. What "spirit"?

What a fucking DISGUSTING means to try to shut down criticism of "baroness" Thatcher's crimes against humanity. To appeal for protecting of her "spirit being". LOL. What a joke! She was a terrible person in life and should be remembered so in death.

[WinkyDink]

326. BWAHAHAHAHAHAHA! I hope this one opens SNL this week!

[JI7]

335. i don't believe in "spirit" and i'm judging her based on what she did when she lived

[WinkyDink]

339. So: No matter WHAT people do, how vicious, evil, or corrupt, once dead they get a pass from you?

[Riftaxe]

340. Hate is a progressive virtue

I doubt anyone would want to live in England '79 if they could flee, most things got better, some got worse.

At least they replaced coin operated power boxes with coin operated politicians in the end

[MrScorpio]

341. I still remember her victims nt

[Skittles]

351. I thought this had to be a joke

no?

[darkangel218]

352. Take it as you wish.

I don't care for the aproval of the masses, this is my point of view and i'll stand by it.

[BootinUp]

354. I will let her countrymen and women judge her policies

I have not made and disparaging remarks, I could have though, there are plenty of thoughts in my head I want to let out.