War Crimes across the administrations,

[MadHound]

"On Tuesday, the Constitution Project, a Washington, DC think tank, released a 600-page report by its “Task Force on Detainee Treatment” documenting decades of war crimes committed by US imperialism and its military and intelligence agencies.

The 11-member Task Force spent two years generating the report, interviewing over 100 individuals, including former detainees, military and intelligence operatives, interrogators and politicians in numerous countries. The report details abuse of detainees during the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations, and geographically covers such mistreatment in Iraq, Afghanistan, Guantanamo Bay and the so-called black sites where the US government hides detainees in secret locations in foreign countries."
http://www.wsws.org/en/articles/2013/04/17/cons-a17.html

Link to the entire Constitution Project report
http://detaineetaskforce.org/

And we wonder why much of the world hates us. Actually, I would have to say that US war crimes probably dates back to LBJ, if not further.

[graham4anything]

1. Eisenhower and the POWS in the German Camps at the very end of the war, very odd.

wiki

Following the Nazi unconditional surrender on May 8, 1945, Eisenhower was appointed Military Governor of the U.S. Occupation Zone, based in Frankfurt am Main. Nazi Germany was divided into four Occupation Zones, one each for the U.S., Britain, France, and the Soviet Union. Upon full discovery of the death camps that were part of the Final Solution (Holocaust), he ordered camera crews to comprehensively document evidence of the atrocity for use in the war crimes tribunals. He made the decision to reclassify German prisoners of war (POWs) in U.S. custody as Disarmed Enemy Forces (DEFs), thus depriving them of the protection of the Geneva convention. As DEFs, their food rations could be lowered and they could be compelled to serve as unfree labor

[MadHound]

2. And your point is? n/t

[graham4anything]

3. Following your notation on bottom-It needs to go back to Eisenhower, nice guy he wasn't.

Wars suck I agree.

But since the dinosaurs, there have been wars. (between themselves.)

But by everyone throwing around atrocities, what Hitler did stands alone on top.
And how many years it took til someone did something about Hitler

And wars prior.

Truman and the bomb.

The interiing of the Japanese was an atrocity.

Except for Jimmy Carter and Abraham Lincoln, every other President had something.

Last thing needed is negativity in the nation.
There is enough of that going around

It's a tinderbox out there.

I would assume the one side on that commission will find bad things on the 1/2
and the other side will find bad things on the other 1/2
Those commissions usually act like that

imho

but Eisenhower was not the nice benign guy people nowadays think of.
He was a ruthless lifetime military person.
Who had undo influence his entire life.
He would in a way be akin to Colin Powell, but he was more like Reagan in snaring the Presidency(I refer to Ike as Reagan the first), and without the one thing that kept Colin Powell back then from easily winning the Presidency.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

5. He's just a disruptor.

But you probably already know that.

[green for victory]

4. intelligence operatives from before LBJ

like Operation 40

Operation 40 was a Central Intelligence Agency-sponsored undercover operation in the early 1960s, which was active in the United States and the Caribbean (including Cuba), Central America, and Mexico. It was approved by President Dwight D. Eisenhower in March 1960, after the January 1959 Cuban Revolution, and was presided over by Vice-president Richard Nixon.

The group included Frank Sturgis (who would later become one of the Watergate burglars); Felix Rodriguez (a CIA officer who later was involved in the capture and summary execution of Che Guevara); Luis Posada Carriles (held in the US in 2010 on charges of illegal immigration, he is demanded by Venezuela for his key role in the execution of the 1976 Cubana Flight 455 bombing); Orlando Bosch (founder of the counterrevolutionary Coordination of United Revolutionary Organizations, that organized the 1976 murder of Chilean former minister Orlando Letelier); Rafael 'Chi Chi' Quintero; Virgilio Paz Romero; Pedro Luis Diaz Lanz; Bernard Barker;

Porter Goss; and Barry Seal. Members took part in the April 1961 Bay of Pigs Invasion directed against the government of Cuban revolutionary leader Fidel Castro. Operation 40 had 86 employees in 1961, of which 37 were trained as case officers.

Porter with OP 40 in '63: (second from left-sitting next to Barry Seal- Remember Barry? Found with his head blown off and GHWB's personal phone # in his trunk)



Porter in 2001: Co author of the Patriot act and co-chair of the first "investigation" into 911:

Mr. Goss had breakfast the morning of 911 with Mahmud Ahmed --the money man behind Mohammed Atta (per FBI)-- the hijacker of flight 77.

Isn't that interesting.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

6. What does this have to do with "war crimes," the subject of the OP?

[el_bryanto]

7. Well if the US Government allowed/encouraged 9/11 that would be a crime of some sort

I don't know if it counts as a war crime.

I don't buy it myself; but some people do.

Bryant

[AnotherMcIntosh]

8. What? Does post #4 mention "the US Government allowed/encouraged 9/11"?

[el_bryanto]

9. Indirectly, yes.

"Mr. Goss had breakfast the morning of 911 with Mahmud Ahmed --the money man behind Mohammed Atta (per FBI)-- the hijacker of flight 77. "

You aren't actually supposed to directly argue that 9/11 was an inside job in General Discussion so that's as far as #4 can go.

Bryant

[green for victory]

15. Considering that if you give $100 to a Mosque that happens to be on a watch list...

you might be accused of supporting terrorism and perhaps shipped off to Gitmo-

I most certainly do find it quite interesting that an old spook from the early days happens to be having breakfast with the man the FBI says financed the flight 77 hijacker. And then gives a press conference during what appears to be flight 77 final approach.

But apparently I'm the only one. And I might be a "Conspiracy Theorist". It's f&*ing madness.

And the march to tyranny continues...

[sabrina 1]

16. Is the article incorrect? Did Porter Goss have lunch with Mahmud Ahmed?

The news media is supposed to report facts regardless of how inconvenient they may be. I have read this story from reputable news media before.

There seems to be a fear in this country of facts.

When we learn that some Muslim American has donated money to a charity our news media makes sure to let us know that this person is very likely aiding and abetting terrorism.

Is there some reason why the fact that Porter Goss was connected to these people should be kept from the American people? I am actually amazed that it was generally censored from the media, considering we are supposed to be a democracy with a free press.. Well, not so much anymore I guess.

[el_bryanto]

17. Well - again - I don't believe the linkages add up to very much

and DU has decided that this subject isn't productive enough to warrant the anger it provokes - like they have done with Israel Palestine and Religion (and usually Guns) - you might disagree with that, and fair play if you do, but those are the rules of the board.

Bryant

[sabrina 1]

18. I didn't say anything about linkages. Has DU decided that news, facts, are not facts?? Or that some

facts are more factual than others? Maybe this is our problem in this country. Fear, of the truth. And why should anyone be afraid of people knowing that Porter Goss DID meet with this guy? If he did something wrong, don't you think we the people have a right to know that? He was paid and probably still is being paid, with our tax dollars. If he did nothing wrong then there is nothing to fear.

As for all the other topics that are 'forbidden', not just on DU but here in the land of the free, WHY are they forbidden? Generally speaking when something is being covered up, someone has something to hide. And the more that happens, the more curious people become as to what it is someone is hiding.

Maybe some fresh air being allowed in might help improve the general atmosphere of this world, it sure needs it and all this paranoia and attempts to cover things up, hide them away, doesn't make them GO away. It makes ME more curious when I see people like Porter Goss being protected. From all I have learned about that man, I have no desire to participate in protecting him.

I guess the whole notion of 'freedom of the press' has been abandoned here in the home of the brave. Bush said the terrorists hated us for our freedoms. I don't think they need to hate us anymore. We don't even have a decent, non-controlled media, in any form, anymore. So I guess they won??

[el_bryanto]

19. OK. Cards on the table - I sort of agree that there could be more open discussion

on some of these areas of DU - but it's not my website. I also think dropping Meta in favor Ask the Administrators was a bad idea too. But this isn't my website. I don't own it - and so Skinner and the moderators get to decide that kind of thing. And in fairness I'm not 100% sure they are wrong; it certainly can create a lot of friction.

But that has very little to do with Freedom of the Press. Freedom of the Press means you can create your own website and talk about these issues for as long as you want to and as much as you want to. But your freedom of the press doesn't mean you can require the mods to allow discussion of those issues here.

Bryant

[sabrina 1]

20. Well, I wasn't talking about DU. I was talking about the general censorship of US Media.

I imagine blogs simply reflect the national standard of what is 'acceptable' and what is not. But re DU, we don't have mods anymore, we have juries. Skinner has stated that he has instituted a new system where the community decides what is acceptable or not.

Since I have no hidden posts I don't think I am someone who needs a lecture about whether or not this is my blog. Clearly I am grown up enough to respect someone else's property.

The truth is we do not have a free press in this country making it possible for selective reporting by whoever owns the media. Which is mainly Corporations now.

The initial topic was Porter Goss. That report is apparently a fact so I see nothing wrong with reporting facts. As to things getting 'tense' when we discuss matters that relate to the welfare of the country, well, we are democracy. If we fear that things might get tense when we discuss facts, then let's not keep pretending we are a democracy, democracies do get tense, but are vastly preferable to the alternatives where all tension is forbidden. If we have no expectation of democracy, then we'll do what people in other non-democratic nations, they whisper, make sure not to upset the authorities, and live their lives in fear. But at least, as someone said about the US from one of those countries, 'we have no illusions.. we knew our press lied to us and didn't bother our heads arguing over it'.

[green for victory]

13. maybe re read the OP

and then read about Operation 40 at the link.
If you can't see the relevance then I can't help.

And we wonder why much of the world hates us. Actually, I would have to say that US war crimes probably dates back to LBJ, if not further. --OP

[zeemike]

10. We are not supposed to be talking like this.

We are supposed to be outraged by the congress not acting on gun control...and so are the right wingers...outraged because it came up...
While they consider how they will gut SS and do things that make us more of a right wing plutocracy...
Get with the program.

[ProSense]

11. The OP title is bogus.

The intro states that the report examined the treatment across administrations. It did not accuse the Obama administration of war crimes.

The Constitution Project’s Task Force on Detainee Treatment is an independent, bipartisan, blue-ribbon panel charged with examining the federal government’s policies and actions related to the capture, detention and treatment of suspected terrorists during the Clinton, Bush and Obama administrations. The project was undertaken with the belief that it was important to provide an account as authoritative and accurate as possible of how the United States treated, and continues to treat, people held in our custody as the nation mobilized to deal with a global terrorist threat.

On taking office in 2009, President Obama declined to undertake or commission an official study of what happened, saying it was unproductive to “look backwards” rather than forward. Senator Leahy (D – VT) introduced legislation to establish an independent commission to look into the U.S. behavior in the aftermath of the 9/11 attacks, but Congress did not to act on it. In many respects, this Task Force report is the examination of the treatment of suspected terrorists that official Washington has been reluctant to conduct.

It is the product of more than two years of research, analysis and deliberation by the Task Force members and staff. It is based on a thorough examination of available public records and interviews with more than one hundred people, including former detainees, military and intelligence officers, interrogators and policymakers. Task Force staff and members conducted on-the-ground fact-finding in Afghanistan, Iraq, Libya, Lithuania, Poland and the United Kingdom, and also at Guantanamo Bay.

Although the investigation proceeded without the advantages of subpoena power or access to classified information, we believe it is the most comprehensive record of detainee treatment across multiple administrations and multiple geographic theatres yet published.

http://detaineetaskforce.org/

There is an entire section on the Obama adminstration.

From page 338 of the report.





From page 348




'Indisputable' evidence of Bush/Cheney torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022684748

National Security Brief: Pressure Mounts On Obama To Investigate Torture
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10022690688

[midnight]

12. Gee I wonder why we can't get gun control support from those in charge....

[bhikkhu]

14. "US war crimes probably dates back to LBJ, if not further."

You're kidding with the naivete, right?

Have you never heard of WWII - the firebombings of civilian population centers in Germany and Japan? The war of independence in the Phillipines? The Indian wars?

If the intent is to have any kind of objective view, what we have over the past couple of decades is a long decline in violence, and a significant decline in state violence. We can do better, but the world doesn't hate us, and history is trending toward justice and peace.

Steven Pinker's recent overview is recommended (more than a DC "think-tank", certainly :ROFL: ): "The Better Angels of our Nature".