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Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:12 PM

 

Look, I thought I was the most cynical person on Earth. But these

Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:02 AM - Edit history (1)

threads decrying the militarization of Watertown have me looking like Mary Tyler Moore on shrooms.

Dear Lord! People were running around throwing pressure cooker bombs! They blew up hundreds of people, executed one peace officer, and almost another. Maybe you want these guys operating freely in your neighborhood, but I didn't want them in mine and was damned glad that they were taken seriously and taken out.

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Reply Look, I thought I was the most cynical person on Earth. But these (Original post)
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 OP
WinkyDink Apr 2013 #1
Buzz Clik Apr 2013 #3
uppityperson Apr 2013 #4
Bernardo de La Paz Apr 2013 #10
geek tragedy Apr 2013 #14
pnwmom Apr 2013 #27
barbtries Apr 2013 #97
pnwmom Apr 2013 #101
NYC Liberal Apr 2013 #49
Tanuki Apr 2013 #65
Riftaxe Apr 2013 #2
earthside Apr 2013 #5
Myrina Apr 2013 #23
revmclaren Apr 2013 #36
cui bono Apr 2013 #70
revmclaren Apr 2013 #80
cui bono Apr 2013 #86
Hekate Apr 2013 #82
cui bono Apr 2013 #85
pnwmom Apr 2013 #104
cui bono Apr 2013 #111
pnwmom Apr 2013 #113
cui bono Apr 2013 #114
Autumn Colors Apr 2013 #58
pnwmom Apr 2013 #103
brooklynite Apr 2013 #31
Hekate Apr 2013 #83
revmclaren Apr 2013 #60
Smarmie Doofus Apr 2013 #64
DonCoquixote Apr 2013 #78
progressoid Apr 2013 #96
pnwmom Apr 2013 #102
pnwmom Apr 2013 #105
TwilightZone Apr 2013 #6
Skip Intro Apr 2013 #7
MOTRDemocrat Apr 2013 #8
truebluegreen Apr 2013 #22
Fumesucker Apr 2013 #25
earthside Apr 2013 #112
graywarrior Apr 2013 #9
glowing Apr 2013 #16
truedelphi Apr 2013 #17
graywarrior Apr 2013 #19
pnwmom Apr 2013 #32
Hekate Apr 2013 #84
truedelphi Apr 2013 #100
ReRe Apr 2013 #18
AnotherMcIntosh Apr 2013 #50
quinnox Apr 2013 #11
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #20
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #37
smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #109
quinnox Apr 2013 #40
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #46
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #55
Lugnut Apr 2013 #74
longship Apr 2013 #21
smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #93
KittyWampus Apr 2013 #42
quinnox Apr 2013 #45
caseymoz Apr 2013 #59
quinnox Apr 2013 #62
caseymoz Apr 2013 #68
xtraxritical Apr 2013 #71
quinnox Apr 2013 #76
caseymoz Apr 2013 #89
Uzair Apr 2013 #69
quinnox Apr 2013 #75
DevonRex Apr 2013 #88
jessie04 Apr 2013 #107
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #12
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #13
smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #24
Posteritatis Apr 2013 #26
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #38
UnrepentantLiberal Apr 2013 #56
Jamastiene Apr 2013 #98
motocicleta2 Apr 2013 #15
pnwmom Apr 2013 #28
Logical Apr 2013 #29
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #41
Logical Apr 2013 #48
awoke_in_2003 Apr 2013 #52
Logical Apr 2013 #53
onenote Apr 2013 #72
Logical Apr 2013 #108
pnwmom Apr 2013 #106
quinnox Apr 2013 #44
mountain grammy Apr 2013 #30
Spitfire of ATJ Apr 2013 #33
nakocal Apr 2013 #34
moondust Apr 2013 #35
Yo_Mama Apr 2013 #39
zeemike Apr 2013 #43
renegade000 Apr 2013 #47
smirkymonkey Apr 2013 #110
caseymoz Apr 2013 #51
frogmarch Apr 2013 #54
Evergreen Emerald Apr 2013 #57
Fumesucker Apr 2013 #61
Poll_Blind Apr 2013 #63
840high Apr 2013 #66
Eleanors38 Apr 2013 #67
fleabiscuit Apr 2013 #73
nobodyspecial Apr 2013 #77
Oldtimeralso Apr 2013 #79
MannyGoldstein Apr 2013 #92
Hekate Apr 2013 #81
steve2470 Apr 2013 #87
davidn3600 Apr 2013 #90
steve2470 Apr 2013 #91
DCBob Apr 2013 #94
randome Apr 2013 #95
whatchamacallit Apr 2013 #99

Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:15 PM

1. I don't recall this during OK City or NYC.

 

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:17 PM

3. Are you shitting me? You SAID THAT?

 

An OKC bomber was in custody in short order with knowledge that the other had fled. All the NYC terrorists were dead.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:21 PM

4. I don't recall there being an active chase with bullets and bombs either in NYC or OK City.

Maybe because there wasn't? You do realize the door to door searches went on not just after the bombings but after they shot a cop, hijacked a car, threw out more bomb/gernades, shot a whole bunch and disappeared, right? Where after OKCity bombing that was it. Same with NYC bombings? I don't recall them going door to door in NYC searching for more jets.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:36 PM

10. Think about the huge differences.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:39 PM

14. You obviously didn't live in either place then.

 

Note that NYC was a fucking airplane attack.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:56 PM

27. Right, and after NYC they didn't shut down all the airports across the country for three days,

and they didn't institute all new TSA procedures everywhere.




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Response to pnwmom (Reply #27)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:18 PM

97. point well taken.

911 brought on huge changes.

i just don't want to see this country succumb to fear. FUCK fear!

i haven't been decrying the militarization of boston this week, i just wanted to say that. what i really thought about the "shelter in place" directive for the entire city of boston was that could not go on for very long. not in a city that size. but i gather there have been posts on DU equating it to a loss of civil rights or something.

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Response to barbtries (Reply #97)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 05:57 PM

101. I agree it couldn't have gone on for long, and in fact Boston had cancelled the "shelter in place"

advisory just before they found the 2nd brother.

But there was no loss of civil rights because the "shelter in place" advisory had always been voluntary -- not mandatory.

(I also agree that I don't want this country to get sucked into more fear. To that end, I'm very happy Boston successfully caught him so quickly.)

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:13 PM

49. You don't recall the fighter jets flying overhead, or the National Guard check points downtown?

I do.

They still have those police checkpoints downtown, by the way. Try driving down Broad Street. They won't let you through without you stopping and opening your trunk, and walking the bomb-sniffing dogs around your car.

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Response to WinkyDink (Reply #1)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:34 PM

65. Umm, do you recall Cheney giving an order for the military

to shoot down Flight 93 on Sept. 11? The flight crashed in a field before this could be carried out.
http://articles.latimes.com/2004/jun/18/nation/na-cheney18

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:15 PM

2. Jihadism is just

misunderstood. With enough patience surely worth can be found in it....

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:27 PM

5. Sorry, I'm with them.

As time starts to pass and some distance opens ... I am beginning to think that we did witness overreaction on the part of government.

We just don't have any perspective in this country -- and that in a way is fortunate because it means that we are not experiencing terror attacks on a regular basis.

But my gosh, they shut the whole city down?
Last week on one day in Baghdad 27 people were killed in car bomb attacks.
Of course, we have a 'news' media in this country that becomes absolutely insane and hyperbolic over these kinds of events ... if it fits that agenda (look at the relatively low status of the fertilizer plant explosion that was by far more devastating than what happened in Boston).



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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:52 PM

23. Shut the city down & didn't find him ...

... until an average joe was out in his yard AFTER the lockdown was lifted & reported something "out of the ordinary".

So much for police expertise.

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Response to Myrina (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:04 PM

36. You must not have been watching the news most of that night.

The police WANTED citizens to go out and check their property. Instead of a few thousand searchers, they ended up with 10s of thousands of people checking their own properties. Even before the suspect was found, a guest on MSNBC stated that this was probably the plan.

Brilliant!

Trying to lessen the roll of the police in the search doesn't change the fact that he was caught quickly and with as little loss of any more life than could be helped.

I am proud of them!

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Response to revmclaren (Reply #36)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:20 PM

70. I'm ambivalen about this issue, but are you sure they wanted citizens to check their

property? Do you have a link for that?

I heard/read that they just lifted the request for them to stay indoors. Never heard anything about them checking their property. Would they really ask citizens to put themselves in danger like that at that time? After they asked them to stay inside? Maybe that's what they asked them to do, I certainly haven't ready everything about all this.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:08 AM

80. Dont have link unfortunately. I was packing to head back to work after a family visit.

If anyone was watching MSNBC last night, please post link if you remember this. Thanks.

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Response to revmclaren (Reply #80)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:10 AM

86. Okay, no problem. It just sounds weird to me.

Thanks for the response.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:36 AM

82. Hell yes they wanted householders to check their own property. What are you thinking?

Does everything have to be spelled out on CNN for it to be "real"?

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Response to Hekate (Reply #82)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:08 AM

85. WTF is your problem? n/t

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Response to cui bono (Reply #70)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:04 PM

104. They asked people to be their eyes and ears and to call if they noticed anything suspicious.

And they were never told to stay out of their own backyards.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #104)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:51 PM

111. Of course, that's understandable. But that's less than asking them to go check.

They had lifted the stay in shelter request so yes, people were free to go outside. My questioning was whether they were asked to actively go check around.

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Response to cui bono (Reply #111)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 10:24 PM

113. They were always free to go outside, but they were advised not to.

I don't think they told them to actively go check around, but they told them to be on alert for suspicious things they saw or heard. And so the man was suspicious, when he noticed that the flap on his boat's cover had gotten loose.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #113)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:08 PM

114. I know and understand that, thanks. I had responded to a post that said citizens were asked to go

out and check around. I thought that sounded weird.

That is all.

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Response to Myrina (Reply #23)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:25 PM

58. & where would "average joe" have been if "shelter in place" were not in effect?

 

Would he have been at work and not even home to SEE that someone was on his boat?

DUH....

The inability of people to understand this is really incredible.

How about comparing it to the government announcing that a tornado is near your house .... TAKE SHELTER NOW!!!

That's not an order, it's voluntary, but if you have a brain in your head, you do it. If not, then you get the Darwin award.

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Response to Myrina (Reply #23)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:02 PM

103. The police asked the public to be their eyes and ears, and the public cooperated.

I think the Boston police, officials, and ordinary citizens all did a terrific job.

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:01 PM

31. Please describe the APPROPRIATE level of force in searching for and apprehanding a terrorist...

...that both the Police and the public could reasonable assume still had weapons and explosives.

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Response to brooklynite (Reply #31)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:38 AM

83. I keep asking that, and so far no one here has had any answer at all

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:30 PM

60. Just a large scale swat operation

the same as used when a criminal is hold up in a home ore business. You make sure all the citizens are out of harms way, and then you go in and search for the suspect(s). After you have him(them), a bit of clean up and brake down of base station and the police leave. Life goes on and as usual and everyone is happy. MUCH bigger scale of course but really the same. And these were criminals with weapons of mass destruction made expressively to kill innocents (remember the bombs folks) . People on these posts are really beginning to sound like the knuckle dragging Alex Jones fans! Logic please people.....

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:33 PM

64. +1. And thanks for mentioning the unnoticed and unmourned 27.

 

They join the thousands of other innocents that have perished in a like fashion since the establishment of the US protectorate.

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:15 AM

78. overreaction?

No, the police were doing what they were supposed to do, actually protect people for a change. Unlike 9-11, Dzofar was treated like a terrorist should be treated, as a CRIMINAL, with police using good old fashioned police work to catch him. If Bush was in office, Boston would still be on lockdown, with Mitt Romney trying to say that the city needed to stay on lockdown until such time as GOP could be elected.

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 11:50 AM

96. Voluntarily.

This wasn't a military coup. The citizens of Boston voluntarily aided the police by "shutting the city down".

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:00 PM

102. There was no lockdown. They put out an advisory asking people to shelter in place.

That's all it was -- a request. And it made complete sense, while the bombers were still out there (with more bombs, as it turned out) that they ordered city-run transportation to be shut down.

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Response to earthside (Reply #5)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:06 PM

105. I would hate to lose in a place that reacted to 27 terrorist deaths in a day in such a blasť manner.

I'm glad that would still be shocking here.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:28 PM

6. Justifying a broadbrush stereotype is hard work.

If, for example, one assumes that all cops are corrupt and that a police state exists in this country, one will see whatever one wants to see to justify that belief in any situation, even this one.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:30 PM

7. I'm with you.

As a temporary measure for good reason I don't have a problem with it.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:33 PM

8. Whatever works is justified. nt

 

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Response to MOTRDemocrat (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:49 PM

22. Across the board? Seriously?

 

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Response to MOTRDemocrat (Reply #8)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:53 PM

25. The means justify the ends, right? n/t

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Response to MOTRDemocrat (Reply #8)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 08:56 PM

112. The motto of every dictator. n/t

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:34 PM

9. People who aren't from the Boston area don't get it

We're a tight knit community made up of a number of towns and we take shit from no one. We'll probably be yelling at cops in a week and telling them to go fuck themselves. We may steal your wallet and help you look for it, but no one better come here and hurt any of us coz we get wicked pissed.

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Response to graywarrior (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:43 PM

16. Yep.. That's Boston. LOL

 

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Response to graywarrior (Reply #9)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:43 PM

17. Yep and that was proven to the American people Way Way back in 1927,

When two men, Sacco and Vanzetti, got nabbed for the anarchist bombings and then executed for the crime.

All these many years later, and people still debate whether that was mob justice or real justice.

So if one thing was proven, it's that hell's bell's, it is better to do something and get somebody to hang for the crime quick quick quick.

As that shows how much people care.

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Response to truedelphi (Reply #17)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:01 PM

32. The analogy fails on so many levels.

Last edited Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:58 AM - Edit history (1)

But here are three: these alleged terrorists were caught on tape, and had bombs and other weapons with them that they were trying to use against the police.

And there was no mob justice. One person was run over by his brother after getting in a shoot-out with the police, and the other was taken into custody and delivered to the hospital.

And no one's going to "hang for the crime quick quick quick."

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #32)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:41 AM

84. "No mob justice" -- absolutely right pnwmom

This is going by the book, and will continue that way, I am sure of it.

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Response to pnwmom (Reply #32)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:46 PM

100. Caught on tape.

Yeah, right and we all know tape cannot be altered. Not ever! (A good movie to watch on this subject would be "Rising Sun."

Sort a like where we were back in '63 and '64. I confess as an twelve year old child, the photos of Oswald were convincing - a grown man with the rifle model and type used to shoot the President held in his hands. Only years later does someone come out and point out the discrepancy between the shadows of the top of the body, and the lower half.

Then a few years later, and the Bay of Tonkin incident occurs. I saw that as further proof that the Green Beret needed backup and needed it soon. I was relieved that that the President of the USA saw it that way too.

then came NIne Eleven, and we were told that to be patriotic, we must realize that there were many WMD's held in control of one Saddam Hussein. We were told "don't question this!" and we can all remember what that got us - a Three trillion dollar war, and a loss of many of our civil rights, and over 6,000 of our service people, and one million people in Iraq who were civilians. Oh and then there weren't any WMD's!!!

Now there are so many things I can add to the above list, and since it is a very nice day out, and I want to get back to my garden, I confess that yes, I am a cynic. Yes, I am less than willing to go back to my twelve year old behavior.

Especially since it means putting aside my personal feelings about hings, and also it means that I should friggin' shut up. After all, we all have to limit discussions of anything that happens in our society, as we need an infinite number of limits on our discussions and our behaviors in order to be free!! I can think of one other nation that felt that way, some eighty years ago.

Anyway I will say this: Monday's event was a success from whatever alphabet agency thinks these things out. I am sure the crowd in charge of the Tonkin Bay incident long ago retired. But whereas two weeks ago, the WH was under a storm of protest regarding military spending and Obama's obsession with cutting Back Social Security, now everyone in charge can relax. The population is once again subdued. For it has been accomplished. We have been shown the terror that lurks inside America, and we need to be vigilante, and start realizing our 19 year old college neighbors, and that pesty sixty something woman out in her garden, are perhaps terrorists.








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Response to graywarrior (Reply #9)


Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:36 PM

11. Sorry, but it is wrong to lock down an entire fucking city

 

That stinks. I don't care if it is Ted Kazynski or Charles Manson or Timothy McVeigh on the loose, or the Columbine shooter idiots on the run. The only time I would accept a lock down of a city is if there is a fucking invasion with a small army of bad guys, with automatic weapons, like a Red Dawn scenario or something.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:48 PM

20. Does it matter that it was voluntary? nt

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:04 PM

37. It doesn't matter how many times....

 

you tell some people that the stay indoors alert was voluntary- brick has a certain density, and you cannot change that with reason.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #37)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:24 PM

109. Hit the nail on the head.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #20)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:06 PM

40. I would be interested how voluntary it truly was

 

I'm betting it wasn't as "voluntary" as it sounds. Were the police telling anyone they saw on the street to go back inside? These are the kinds of questions I would be interested to hearing the answers to.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:10 PM

46. People were on the streets in Boston as the day went on.

 

In Cambridge, a group of people I know went for a four-hour bike ride.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #40)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:22 PM

55. Several Bostonians, like Will Pitt...

 

have shared their experiences.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #55)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:54 PM

74. Yes.

A search of Will Pitt's username would clearly explain that it was voluntary.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:48 PM

21. What about "shelter in place" do you not understand?

The media called it a "lockdown" but that's what the media does; it conflates.

"Shelter in place" was voluntary. But Bostonians, who apparently have a few more brain cells than some here, realized that going out in the middle of a huge crime investigation would have been kind of bad form.

So, Bostonians willingly stayed in their houses so as to not impede the already stressed out law enforcement forces who were, after all, looking for very bad dudes who blew up a whole lot of people.

They even helped!!! What a surprise!?

What would you have done? Have a street party in defiance?

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Response to longship (Reply #21)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:05 AM

93. Thank You!

 

From a grateful Bostonian.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:08 PM

42. IT. WAS. VOLUNTARY. This has been told to you and others multiple times yet you still ignore it.

 

Which means at this point you are deliberately ignoring it for some untold reason.

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Response to KittyWampus (Reply #42)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:10 PM

45. bull, see my post #40

 

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:29 PM

59. Really? The lock on that lockdown sounds weak.


I don't know any instances of people getting arrested for leaving their homes. (Maybe there are one or two, but it wasn't like the mass arrests of the Occupy Movement.)

I think the police gave people an excuse to do what they would have rather done anyway; that is stay away from the bullets and bombs and watch the whole thing unfold on their televisions. It's like being given a day off to watch your favorite show, with an ironclad excuse. And then it was lifted after a day in which they didn't find anyone. Where is the abuse of power there?

As I've always said, if somebody offers you a day off, take it. I don't care what they call it. It goes doubly true if it's a day off with pay. You call that a loss of freedom?

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #59)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:32 PM

62. Well, I am real sensitive to setting precedents like this

 

So, should this start to be standard procedure whenever we have some major dangerous criminals on the loose in any big city? Now are you starting to get the picture? I am a strong believer in civil liberties and freedom, and I don't want any whiff of police state-ism or authoritarian bullshit passed off as "sensible and proper".

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Response to quinnox (Reply #62)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:48 PM

68. You haven't even shown there's a slope

. . . much less a slippery one. I'm no friend of the police. I been appalled by police behavior many times. I'm also a believer in civil liberties and freedom.

But I can't see the abuse, here. I haven't heard of one person arrested for leaving their homes (though I have heard at least one who was afraid the press the issue). I can't see the possibility that this sets a precedent or "slope" of any sort. These guys had already killed four people, injured or wounded 170, shot 200 rounds at police, and were throwing bombs, and they put the request or order up to stay off the streets after that unfolded.

Police kept their request or order up until they finished their search, then took it off when they didn't find the perp. Now, if they hadn't found him, and were in any way abusive about their power, wouldn't it have been more expected that they'd keep the request up until they did?

No, this is one time law enforcement clearly worked the way it's supposed to. A rare occasion, to be sure. It really pries away at progressive credibility, IMHO, to make this an issue, and makes Conservatives look better by comparison.

And as I said, people got to do pretty much what they wanted to do anyway: stay away from bullets and explosions, get a day off and watch some very good reality TV. That's a good deal, especially if you're automatically excused the absence and are on salary.

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #68)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:25 PM

71. Really it's not much different from a "snow" day, stay home for public safety.

 

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Response to caseymoz (Reply #68)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:04 AM

76. well, call me crazy, but I think how this whole thing went down should be given a hard look at by

 

the media, if they still had any real investigative reporters left in this day and age. I think it would be an interesting story, however it turns out.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #76)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:44 AM

89. Oh, this will be getting attention for years.


There won't be any end to the afterthoughts about it.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:07 PM

69. IT WAS VOLUNTARY!!!!

 

Just keep repeating that, over and over again.

They didn't lock down the city. They ASKED people to stay indoors.

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Response to Uzair (Reply #69)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:59 PM

75. yea, maybe

 

I would like to see a timeline about how and when this whole thing went down. Call me crazy, but its a big friggin' deal.

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Response to quinnox (Reply #11)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:15 AM

88. LOL!!! If you were in charge you'd tell the children to go play

in the streets where the brothers left bombs lying around. Yeah! No need for the bomb squad to go through their route to make sure nothing is gonna blow up anybody by surprise, right?

And no need to go house by house to make sure that the surviving brother hasn't taken a family hostage or anything. What's one family here or there, anyway?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:36 PM

12. Was this "lockdown" an order or recommendation?

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:53 PM

24. Yes! It was only suggested and we complied to help with the investigation.

 

Why are people not getting that?

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:56 PM

26. Because it conflicts with their neat little outrage narratives. (nt)

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Response to smirkymonkey (Reply #24)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:05 PM

38. See (my) post 37. nt

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Reply #13)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:22 PM

56. Uh hu.

 

A recommendation... Wink wink.



You unintentionally created a CT flypaper thread.

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Response to UnrepentantLiberal (Reply #56)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:47 PM

98. I wish the ConspiracyTheorists-R-Us wing of DU could contain themselves

just for a little while. When they bombard us with too many different CTs so soon based on so few facts, it gets too confusing. The ones who at least wait to collect and use some facts to make up their conspiracy theories are much more interesting anyhow.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:42 PM

15. hear, hear

I'm generally Mr. Conspiracy Theory, but damn, I thought the police were amazing. I can only hope the Portland police would have done the same if it had happened in Oregon.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:58 PM

28. Yeah, it's interesting that you've turned into a moderate lately.

What happened to move you over to the dark side?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 09:58 PM

29. Shutting down Boston for one missing suspect. Nothing says "go terrorists" like that does. n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #29)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:07 PM

41. Oh, for fuck's sake. nt

 

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #41)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:12 PM

48. LOL, Nice response. I learned a lot. Thanks! n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #48)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:17 PM

52. You have been told countless f'ing times....

 

that it was voluntary, yet you fail to hear. If you havent learned yet, you will not learn.

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Response to awoke_in_2003 (Reply #52)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:19 PM

53. Really, you think businesses thought they could open? Seriously? n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #53)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:31 PM

72. They could and some did. Some didn't.

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Response to onenote (Reply #72)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:10 PM

108. Well, the photos form Boston that day show a ghost town. I bet 90% shut down. n-t

 

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Response to Logical (Reply #53)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:07 PM

106. Yes, they could and a few did. The advisory was only an advisory. nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:00 PM

30. It was my understanding the lockdown was voluntary

The citizens heeded the call to help law enforcement by not getting in the way or providing cover for the fugitives. These were obviously cold blooded killers, armed and dangerous. The more people out and about, the greater the danger of more death and destruction.
I'm impressed with the response of the citizens. I think their cooperation was just as important as the massive law enforcement effort that caught the guy.
What was a bit annoying was the "press conference" after the capture. I expected some spokesperson to tell us how the guy was caught, what his wounds were, would he survive, etc. What we saw was kind of like an awards show, with everyone taking a bow and thanking everyone else. It was weird.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:02 PM

33. People used to run into their homes on their own when someone yelled "Mad dog!!"

 

The "lock down" was an ADVISORY.

It wasn't Martial Law.

There used to be another term for this brand of "Rugged Individualist".

We called them "Hermits".



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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:03 PM

34. Because they are used to republicans failing when dealing with terrorism

The primary reason that these people are complaining is because they cannot stand that a black man is doing better in capturing and/or killing terrorist than any republican ever did. If you look at terrorist actions against the US in the last 20 years, when it comes to getting the terrorists, the terrorists are killed or captured under Democratic presidents and allowed to go free under republican presidents.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:04 PM

35. Circumstantially justified IMO.

Densely populated, wide search area, unknown condition of suspect, unknown danger to public, potential ability to disappear into a crowd/public transportation, potential ability to hijack another vehicle, etc.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:09 PM

43. I am sorry Manny I really am.

But I find the whole thing kind of creepy...it is almost like an orgy of emotionalism.

Now I know I will catch hell for this, because you are supposed to be emotional when some tragedy like this happens, but we seem,to make it a celebration instead of a solemn event...with hero's and all.
I am sorry but my cynicism has peaked, and I am really sad, but not only for the people who suffered from this, but also because we have lost something very precious, and that is our freedom for sure, but also real emotions by dilution of them both.

It's not you it's me.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:11 PM

47. i don't think they really understand what went down...

either that or they're using the certainty of hindsight to try to criticize the response in some way.

i mean, yeah, NOW we know they never made it out of watertown and there were probably only two perpetrators... but given that nobody knew until well into the situation: (a) exactly how many people were in on the whole homicidal rampage thing; (b) the full extent of their plans/resources; (c) the location of one of the known perpetrators (who had just murdered a police officer and turned a residential area into a warzone with a quasi-military arsenal), is it really that unreasonable to shut down public transit and suggest that people stay indoors?

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Response to renegade000 (Reply #47)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:44 PM

110. Yes, thank you! I am failing to see the hysteria here.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:14 PM

51. Your right. They didn't close down the city

. . . after the Marathon bombing, they closed it down (voluntarily) when these guys surfaced shooting and throwing bombs, and hell, law enforcement didn't know how many other criminals were in the cell or "ring" and who else was going to surface to support them.

They called it voluntary, and said straight out that it wasn't really for protection, it was to make the manhunt easier. Now, if this was a martial law situation, wouldn't they have lied and said it was for the citizens own good?

I'm guessing if some civilians wanted to step into possible cross fire, they'd be free to do it.

And then at the end, it was lifted. People came out and celebrated.

Some people I otherwise really respect have been saying absurd things about this, even to the point of lying about it, or-- to be generous-- forgetting details. Once these guys surfaced murdered an officer and fired 200 rounds and threw explosives, there was no better to handle the situation. I'm not known for my compliments to law enforcement, either.

Really, people here shame and discredit progressives by trying to equate this to some kind of violation of liberty or extension of police powers. It certainly makes Conservatives look a little better by comparison. No, this one time the authorities did exactly what they should have done.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:20 PM

54. It was handled

appropriately and well.

When a crime happens here in this little redneck town, the police give the bad guys a good head start and then go back to shooting feral cats and staking out stop signs for creepers.

Telling Watertown residents they'd be safer inside their houses was the responsible thing for law enforcement to do. How can anyone call that police state militarization?

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:24 PM

57. Knowing what you know NOW

But, at the time no one knew if there were other bombs, terrorists, killers. It is so easy in hindsight to crticize.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:30 PM

61. I have or had family that lived through the Blitz in London

A whole great city shut down for one man just seems laughable after listening to them talk of buzz bombs, German bombers and V2s.

With the V2 I had one relative tell me that you heard a gigantic explosion (assuming you weren't *too* close of course) and then a few moments later you would hear the whistle of it coming in, it was supersonic when it fell.

The V1 or buzz bomb was different she said, as long as you could hear it you were safe, when the engine stopped everyone cringed and tried to find cover.

At night the bombers came.


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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 10:39 PM

67. I don't see marshall law edict. A suggestion was highly advised,

 

and for some peculiar reason, Bostonians agreed with it. It wasn't Hungary in 1956, or even New Orkeans in 2005. The police didn't force compliance, they had very understandable agreement.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sat Apr 20, 2013, 11:52 PM

73. And did they

"And did they get you to trade
Your heroes for ghosts?
Hot ashes for trees?
Hot air for a cool breeze?
Cold comfort for change?
And did you exchange
A walk on part in the war
For a lead role in a cage?"

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:05 AM

77. What I find interesting is the reaction of the people

if they were actually being held hostage and terrorized by a military state? How do all those who say it was martial law explain the reaction of the public? Quite a strange reaction to wildly cheer and thank your captors.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:17 AM

79. Just one thing Manny

You stated: "They blew up hundreds of people, executed one security guard and almost another."
Both of these individuals were sworn peace officers, NOT security guards.

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Response to Oldtimeralso (Reply #79)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 06:02 AM

92. You're right, of course. Corrected.

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 01:32 AM

81. Manny: You are right. Thank you.

What has been going on here has been nothing short of mind-boggling.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 02:12 AM

87. I agree with you, although I must admit I was a tad squeamish about it all

If anyone has the right to decry the police tactics, it's the people of Watertown and to date I have heard absolutely NO complaints in the media about their tactics.

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Response to steve2470 (Reply #87)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 03:58 AM

90. Boston PD acted appropriately, most PDs would not...

 

I cringe if this lockdown was attempted in L.A. or Chicago. It'd be a disaster.

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Response to davidn3600 (Reply #90)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 04:01 AM

91. I thought they did also nt

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:12 AM

94. On some topics I think you still hold that title.



BTW, I agree with your comments completely. Hard to imagine how law enforcement could have handled this situation any better.

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 07:15 AM

95. Thanks for being willing to see things from a different perspective!

 

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Response to MannyGoldstein (Original post)

Sun Apr 21, 2013, 12:51 PM

99. Why doesn't this compute?

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