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MichelleB

(80 posts)
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:21 AM May 2013

Politically correct or intellectually rude??

Working with the general public, I remind my self that I need to be politically correct all the time!! For instance, instead of describing someone as short, I use "vertically challeneged". It i need to use the word "fat" then I'd say heavy set. Or heavier. When we near holidays, I always stop myself mid sentence and refrain from merry Christmas or happy Chanukah. Instead, I revert to hope you're having a good season!! That's all good. I'm not so bothered by that. But when someone is being blatantly RUDE, how do you stop your self for responding in the same fashion?! I've stopped myself from saying things like "dumb ass!!" And correct it to you mentally challenged donkey. Or you folicly impaired, intuletctually challenged anus of a horse!!
In all seriousness, it definately takes some one a bit of class and wits to defend them selves in some of these situations. Any examples of when you had to remain professional and use political correctness to defend yourself in akward situations? Please do share!! -this could be amusing and educational all at once.

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Politically correct or intellectually rude?? (Original Post) MichelleB May 2013 OP
You'd be amazed at the many shades of meaning of a smile accompanied by the words, freshwest May 2013 #1
Good advice. truebluegreen May 2013 #28
I see English as a toolbox Half-Century Man May 2013 #2
My default reply to a rude personal attack... defacto7 May 2013 #3
"vertically challenged" sounds way worse than "short" JI7 May 2013 #4
Short people got no reason OriginalGeek May 2013 #5
Wow... you're a lot more politiclly correct than I am. Jasana May 2013 #6
"Politically correct" is a RW term loyalsister May 2013 #7
I get called fat all the time. Mr. X May 2013 #13
Good for you loyalsister May 2013 #17
"There is a difference between calling a man or woman fat" - oh, piss off. sibelian May 2013 #32
Whose cold harsh truth? Iris May 2013 #18
To my above... Mr. X May 2013 #31
callling someone "illegal" really grates on me. CTyankee May 2013 #64
the thing is, when polite people notice something that's socially considered a flaw -- like being HiPointDem May 2013 #22
But we do refer to people with diabetes as 'diabetic,' to people with disabilities as 'disabled,' HiPointDem May 2013 #21
Some people do loyalsister May 2013 #42
In my world, people can be tired, handsome, a dancer, diabetic, young, and deaf, all at the same HiPointDem May 2013 #46
Your point is valid loyalsister May 2013 #47
as i'd already said i try to call people as they chose to be called, not sure why the lecture is HiPointDem May 2013 #48
And I explained why words matter loyalsister May 2013 #50
As I've already explained, there's nothing in the language itself that categorizes them in limited HiPointDem May 2013 #52
It wasn't always rucky May 2013 #27
I recall "politically correct" beginning as a left wing term meaning the person referred to has so byeya May 2013 #35
Exactly loyalsister May 2013 #43
Thanks. It's good to know my memory has not failed me here. byeya May 2013 #49
I generally tell people I'm short, fat, have brown hair. Shrike47 May 2013 #8
Political correctness is simply GOOD MANNERS. Zoeisright May 2013 #9
It sometimes *is* difficult, because different people take offense to different things, and HiPointDem May 2013 #23
Political correctness is simply NOT GOOD MANNERS. RC May 2013 #36
Here, here. +++++!! Locut0s May 2013 #66
Kinda like.... TnDem May 2013 #67
Find another job if you can't pretend to be nice. Quantess May 2013 #10
I've been in customer service for 20 years.. MichelleB May 2013 #12
Fortunately for me, I wasn't in public service. Shrike47 May 2013 #14
a huge sparkly bouncy ball Quantess May 2013 #16
Great feed back!!! MichelleB May 2013 #11
If someone called me "vertically challenged" ... dmr May 2013 #15
I once thought of a thing Beearewhyain May 2013 #19
A friend of mine suggested LostOne4Ever May 2013 #20
I love that example. It's very much like something my father told me one day when I was puzzled. freshwest May 2013 #44
I think your example is better LostOne4Ever May 2013 #57
Same feeling and logic. Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching and Alan Watts influenced me as a teenager. freshwest May 2013 #60
this really feels like a right wing post cali May 2013 #24
I thought the same. Squinch May 2013 #25
Yep. Sheldon Cooper May 2013 #26
"-this could be amusing and educational all at once. " Brickbat May 2013 #29
I don't think the term short is offense. Travis_0004 May 2013 #30
Vertically challenged indicates a problem. Tall and short are lengths. freshwest May 2013 #61
I'm short... a la izquierda May 2013 #63
the RW BS is strong in this thread.... KG May 2013 #33
Wasn't it, though. But there were some good replies, too. freshwest May 2013 #45
You don't consider "vertically challenged" as rude? Cleita May 2013 #34
If asked to describe a person's height I think it's better to say "about"5'1" or 4'11" whichever byeya May 2013 #37
That is fine. Even calling someone short is not insulting. It's a fact, but Cleita May 2013 #38
I would, and have, filled out reports and said "Shorter than the average man, approx, 5'6" and I do byeya May 2013 #39
I don't think asking for body shape is an appropriate question even for an accident report. Cleita May 2013 #40
I agree with you and this was 40 years ago. I don't think this question appears on current motor byeya May 2013 #41
Of course!! MichelleB May 2013 #56
aww. poor you. such a hard life you live La Lioness Priyanka May 2013 #51
I cannot pretend to be nice or to actually care about others. Dash87 May 2013 #53
:D MichelleB May 2013 #58
I think you're punking us. Nine May 2013 #54
call me whatever you want.. janlyn May 2013 #55
calling anti-woman right wing nuts "pro-life" arely staircase May 2013 #59
For those of you being accused or accusing someone of being "right winged" MichelleB May 2013 #62
Actually I think the first part you said you are fine with is stupid... Locut0s May 2013 #65
Option C: Trolling dog whistle. (nt) Heidi May 2013 #68
The easiest thing to do is not to refer to people's MineralMan May 2013 #69
...agreed MineralMan!! :D MichelleB May 2013 #70

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
1. You'd be amazed at the many shades of meaning of a smile accompanied by the words,
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:39 AM
May 2013

'Thank you and have a nice day' in a tone of voice that indicates you really do mean it. The rude will be defused and whatever you think won't come back to bite you later.

No one knows what you really think or feel, nor do they care. It's just a social interaction like the question 'How are you' and the answer 'I am fine.' Friends may want to know in truth how you are; but strangers just do it to cut the ice and start business.

Or they don't. To answer 'I'm fine,' is more appropriate than telling them how you really feel, and faster. As far as blatant rudeness, I am often speechless. So I'm not going to give them anything more to work with.

If I must converse with them, I do it slowly and carefully and with little emotion. Because they may be having a bad day. A poster here wrote 'The person who is being rude to you is not really responding to you, but the person they were just with who was rude to them.'

Don't take any of it personally. They don't know you, and you don't know them. I hope that helps.

 

truebluegreen

(9,033 posts)
28. Good advice.
Sat May 11, 2013, 07:20 AM
May 2013

I always lower my voice / tone / emotional content when someone is rude, or out of line, instead of raising it. It helps to defuse the situation, and has the added benefit of making the other person look bad.

It is especially useful in political conversations at Thanksgiving...may not change any minds, but you look reasoned and controlled and they don't.

Half-Century Man

(5,279 posts)
2. I see English as a toolbox
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:47 AM
May 2013

I see English as a toolbox for communication, it contains tools so fine as to be able to make verbal lace and tools to smash things to flinders. Unfortunately for this post, I tend to favor blunt implements. Which, I suppose, is better than favoring fisticuffs.

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
3. My default reply to a rude personal attack...
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:51 AM
May 2013

" I'll take that under advisement." and I'm done. It's usually stops the rant cold and I don't end up getting shot or something.

JI7

(89,248 posts)
4. "vertically challenged" sounds way worse than "short"
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:57 AM
May 2013

short in itself isn't really negative to me. i think that's one term where it depends on the context.

Jasana

(490 posts)
6. Wow... you're a lot more politiclly correct than I am.
Sat May 11, 2013, 02:12 AM
May 2013

I'm a short disabled person who's starting to get fat due the damn medication I have to take. I never try to be rude to people but I don't guard every word I say. Every once and a while I'll add a word change into my everyday vocabulary if I begin to understand why people are sensitive to it. For instance I don't say, "That's retarded" anymore to indicate annoyance.

As for x-mas? I'm atheist. It all sounds silly to me but I don't begrudge the words. A Merry Christmas is the same as a Happy Holidays or a Happy Chanukah. I get the spirit meant behind the words. (Note: I don't claim to speak for all atheists.)

The situations I find the hardest are catcalling in the streets. Nothing pisses me off more. Normally I respond with an utterly disdainful glare or a growling, "You wish." Thankfully, I'm getting older now so it's not as much of a problem.

I remember a long time ago I was renting a car to a guy and when I answered his question I said, "Yeah." He gave me the most imperious look and said "It's yes young lady, not yeah." I knew he worked for some California University because they had a discount with us so I told him, "You might want to check in your history department about some weird piece of paper with amendments guaranteeing us the right to free speech. I'm sure they can help you out with that." If that was being politically incorrect to a customer, sue me.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
7. "Politically correct" is a RW term
Sat May 11, 2013, 02:32 AM
May 2013

....used to deride people who care about respectful language usage. I find any of the "challenged" terms to be slightly insulting because it is actually a facetious term that reflects annoyance at calls for "people first" language.

People first language refers to people with disabilities who would rather have their impairment described separate from their identification of a person.

Many prefer to have autism than to be considered "autistic." Most of the person who has schizophrenia would rather not be labelled schizophrenic. After all, we don't refer to people who have cancer as cancerous.

As I have learned from people who are really invested in it, it has made more sense to me.

Short and tall are pretty neutral descriptors. Fat has been commonly used as an insult. I think more neutral language would be heavy set.

I'm always glad to see someone questioning it. It's about respect rather than an imposition of political courtesy.

 

Mr. X

(72 posts)
13. I get called fat all the time.
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:41 AM
May 2013

I don't cry about it - Because it's the truth.

This is, imo, why political correctness got it's start. People no longer want to listen to the cold, harsh, truth about things. And for those willing to listen, they refuse to accept the truth.

Anyway, as for insults, this really has more to do with the tone of the voice, rather then the word itself. Given the proper tone, even the most polite words can be used as a insult.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
17. Good for you
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:46 AM
May 2013

There is a difference between calling a man or woman fat. The threshold for labeling a person "fat" is lower for women. There is no cold hard truth to calling a women fat because she wears a size 12.

sibelian

(7,804 posts)
32. "There is a difference between calling a man or woman fat" - oh, piss off.
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:32 AM
May 2013

Stop attempting to score stupid points.

Iris

(15,653 posts)
18. Whose cold harsh truth?
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:55 AM
May 2013

Words and the way we use them have meaning. Calling someone an "illegal" is not a cold hard truth. It's using someone's immigration status as a label and a slur and is designed to marginlize him or her. In my experience, people say criticism of their insensitive and often intentionally harmful word choice is unfairly labeled "political incorrect" and they sound childish.

 

Mr. X

(72 posts)
31. To my above...
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:09 AM
May 2013

Political Correctness is also about getting people to reject the reality of a persons actions.

Illegal Immigrant is truthful. Ironically, it's also a politically correct term - We used to call them Aliens before dropping that term for this.

Obama are spinning them as Undocumented Workers. This goes with the rejecting reality part - If we make them sound nicer then people will be more accepting of them, despite their actions.

Murder and Rapist are labels as well - Designed to marginalize a person. What politically correct term would you call them? How can we spin these people, and their actions, so that people will be more willing to accept them?

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
64. callling someone "illegal" really grates on me.
Sun May 12, 2013, 07:51 AM
May 2013

One acquaintance of mine uses it and I want to grab her by the shoulders and shake her! All of her grandparents were immigrants to this country. How do I know whether they were here legally? As Italian immigrants, they were discriminated against and now they want to pull up the ladder and deny others? But I usually say "We usually use the word "undocumented" because that is the accurate term."

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
22. the thing is, when polite people notice something that's socially considered a flaw -- like being
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:40 AM
May 2013

overweight or having a handicap -- they assume it's obvious to others too, including the person who is overweight or handicapped -- so they don't feel any necessity to say 'hey fatty, you're fat!' or 'hey gimp, you can't walk right!'

also, polite people, when they notice things that have been objects of discrimination -- like skin color, clearly evident to all, don't feel the need to point those out either 'hey whitey, you're white! hey blackie, you're black! you have slanty eyes too!'

yes, it's the truth, but so what? everyone knows it, and there's generally no reason to draw attention to what's self-evident unless it's to make fun, so why do it?

Why would people be calling you fat 'all the time'? Were they raised in a barn? What's the need?

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
21. But we do refer to people with diabetes as 'diabetic,' to people with disabilities as 'disabled,'
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:33 AM
May 2013

to people with poor hearing as 'deaf,' people who have 'white' skin as 'white,' etc.

I don't understand the mindset of people who get upset about the distinction between 'having autism' and 'being autistic' or other varieties of the same complaint. Are they going to stop having autism at some point in the future? Is the problem that they think 'being autistic' defines them as *only* autistic whereas 'having autism' means they are other things besides their autism?
Either way, I don't get it.

Not that I'd go out of my way to address people in ways they don't like, but it seems like an incoherent kind of over-analysis of the language to me.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
42. Some people do
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:46 PM
May 2013

"Is the problem that they think 'being autistic' defines them as *only* autistic whereas 'having autism' means they are other things besides their autism?" Exactly.

I would say that my friend who is a dancer has diabetes. If you initially describe him as "diabetic," you're overshadowing something that is interesting and exciting about the person with an unfortunate part of their life. I apply this construct to anyone who has a disability so that they can identify themselves by the qualities that they want to define them.

They want to be seen as a person who is MORE than the experience that alienates them socially and is the cause of discrimination.
Yes a person will always have Autism, but people won't necessarily always know it so, for some it's relevance is not so constant that it should define them.
Notice that it is generally INVISIBLE (unlike skin tone). When you use autistic, or in my case epileptic, it takes something personal and private that some perceive as negative and makes it the very definition of me.
The word "epilpetic" is used to describe the brain waves that indicate some potential malfunction. I don't want to be defined by those intermittent neurological mishaps. To me the difference between having misfires on occasion and being clinically labeled first and foremost by neurological errors that show up on my EEG is important.
The disabling fact that I have to take extremely expensive medication presents an imposed limitation on my opportunities.

The word disabled is different. A person is "disabled" not so much because of their impairment (people who are deaf often don't see themselves as disabled). The only thing disabling about deafness is that hearing people can't\won't include them in conversation\information dispersion. Some things that are disabling about Diabetes or some other disabilities is the expense and social differences that it imposes upon a person's lifestyle. A person who uses a wheelchair operates just as well as any person who walks, but is disabled when they encounter stairs, doors that don't open easily, etc.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
46. In my world, people can be tired, handsome, a dancer, diabetic, young, and deaf, all at the same
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:18 PM
May 2013

time. And 100 other things as well.

IMO, a case of mistaking the map for the territory. Referring to someone as diabetic in no way implies the speaker thinks 'diabetic' exclusively defines a person with diabetes, and using 'have' in no way implies that they don't.

Which is why special pleading is required to explain the acceptability of 'disabled,' 'deaf,' etc. In fact those words are 'ok' simply because their referents (or leaders in those communities) haven't claimed they were problematic. If they did, those words would become problematic, and lots of people would jump on the bandwagon.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
47. Your point is valid
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:32 PM
May 2013

if your only concern is the speaker. In my world, the person who are affected and described are the ones who decides whether or not their negative reaction is valid.
I am letting you know what affected people have said publicly and told me personally.
Whether or not it matters to you to treat them with respect is up to you.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
48. as i'd already said i try to call people as they chose to be called, not sure why the lecture is
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:43 PM
May 2013

necessary.

i'm explaining why i think the preference is political and has little to do with the actual language.

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
50. And I explained why words matter
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:53 PM
May 2013

People find some language that categorizes them in limited ways personally demeaning. To categorize it as politics is just another way of writing people off.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
52. As I've already explained, there's nothing in the language itself that categorizes them in limited
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:04 PM
May 2013

Last edited Sat May 11, 2013, 04:39 PM - Edit history (1)

ways, and social usage to my knowledge doesn't categorize anyone as exclusively 'noun' when a noun form is used over a "have + noun" form.

Use of language *is* political, and talking about it isn't 'writing people off'.

and once again, as i'd already explained that i try to address people as they choose to be addressed before i talked about my own opinions, i didn't need your scolding. you chose to take offense because while i respect the courtesy, i have a different opinion about the language.

rucky

(35,211 posts)
27. It wasn't always
Sat May 11, 2013, 07:12 AM
May 2013

I took a unit on Political Correctness in a writing class in college (late '80's), and that's how it was referred without a hint of sneer attached to the term on the professor's part. some of the students, otoh...

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
35. I recall "politically correct" beginning as a left wing term meaning the person referred to has so
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:57 AM
May 2013

hung up on not hurting anyones feelings that person was being ineffective and steered from the program at hand.

It was soon taken over by the RWers who derided people who objected to someone using rude and insensitive terms. For examples, RWers were(and are) defending those who use terms like "spazzes" and "retards"

loyalsister

(13,390 posts)
43. Exactly
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:48 PM
May 2013

When I used "climate change," my RW cousin asked if that was the new politically correct term for global warming.

Shrike47

(6,913 posts)
8. I generally tell people I'm short, fat, have brown hair.
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:13 AM
May 2013

I don't mention the scars because I don't want to upset them.

Rude people? I was a public employee for 21 years and perfectly willing to be rude right back. Fortunately, it didn't come to that very often.

 

HiPointDem

(20,729 posts)
23. It sometimes *is* difficult, because different people take offense to different things, and
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:48 AM
May 2013

different people have different ideas about what 'good manners' are.

To me, good manners is not calling out someone for a clearly well-intentioned gesture or remark, even if it doesn't meet my personal linguistic or behavioral standards. Some people think otherwise.

 

RC

(25,592 posts)
36. Political correctness is simply NOT GOOD MANNERS.
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:59 AM
May 2013

Political correctness is controlling.
Political correctness is arrogant.
Political correctness is in itself a Right-Wing mind set. To the Political Correctness is group think.
Political Correctness is a language straight jacket, designed by those that want to control political thought.
Political correctness does not fit a Liberal mind set.

TnDem

(538 posts)
67. Kinda like....
Sun May 12, 2013, 02:30 PM
May 2013

Kinda like things such as "gun safety", replacing "gun control".

And "common sense legislation" replacing "new gun control laws"

Most southern folk immediately see this for what it is...

Not "politically correct", but bullshit..

Quantess

(27,630 posts)
10. Find another job if you can't pretend to be nice.
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:23 AM
May 2013

Being nice or being polite is the easy part of the job. If you can't handle that part of customer service, I wonder how long you're going to keep your job.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
12. I've been in customer service for 20 years..
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:27 AM
May 2013

Just curious as to how others handle it. Always good to have feed back.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
11. Great feed back!!!
Sat May 11, 2013, 03:25 AM
May 2013

Thanks for all the insight and feed back!! And I guess I never really stopped to think about the word "challenged" in it's entirety. At how demeaning it can actually come off. I work with special needs children of all varieties and in a little corner store for the extra money and to help make ends meet. I'm constantly faced with people of all up bringings and nationalities, faiths and what not. The only thing I'm ever really sure of is everyone is unique and has their own preferences. No one likes to be labeled. And everyone has a sensitivity to something or other. so, as suggested I have found that the nice smile and a "have a nice day" USUALLY fixes all. But then you have your select few who feel the need to keep pushing. I do realize some may have just had a rough day and I'm the unfortunate one to catch the unintentional reprocution of it. But others just don't feel complete until they have managed to make someone mad. For those, I try not to give them the satisfaction of knowing it worked. But sometimes i just can't help myself.

dmr

(28,347 posts)
15. If someone called me "vertically challenged" ...
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:04 AM
May 2013

which I am, I'd think they were mocking me with an air of superiority; or mocking me because they mistakenly think that's how Liberals talk.

Just call me short.

This is my philosophy toward others: If you're going to be rude or miserable, then you'll have to be rude or miserable all by yourself, because I'm just going to go on about my business of being me.



Beearewhyain

(600 posts)
19. I once thought of a thing
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:09 AM
May 2013

or more like a ping
that bounced around my head
sledding down misadventures of mis-thought
but I am hot...in this cyber ring
yet the sound never sings.

Word Salad!

LostOne4Ever

(9,288 posts)
20. A friend of mine suggested
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:31 AM
May 2013

A friend of mine (who knows im trying to teach myself japanese) suggested i tell them:

あんたは綺麗ですよ。

Or

Anata wa kirei desu.

It means "You are very beautiful."



Anyway story time!!!


[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#dcdcdc; padding-bottom:5px; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-bottom:none; border-radius:0.4615em 0.4615em 0em 0em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]Zen Buddhist story:[div class="excerpt" style="background-color:#f0f0f0; border:1px solid #bfbfbf; border-top:none; border-radius:0em 0em 0.4615em 0.4615em; box-shadow:3px 3px 3px #999999;"]There once lived a great warrior. Though quite old, he still was able to defeat any challenger. His reputation extended far and wide throughout the land and many students gathered to study under him.

One day an infamous young warrior arrived at the village. He was determined to be the first man to defeat the great master. Along with his strength, he had an uncanny ability to spot and exploit any weakness in an opponent. He would wait for his opponent to make the first move, thus revealing a weakness, and then would strike with merciless force and lightning speed. No one had ever lasted with him in a match beyond the first move.

Much against the advice of his concerned students, the old master gladly accepted the young warrior's challenge. As the two squared off for battle, the young warrior began to hurl insults at the old master. He threw dirt and spit in his face. For hours he verbally assaulted him with every curse and insult known to mankind. But the old warrior merely stood there motionless and calm. Finally, the young warrior exhausted himself. Knowing he was defeated, he left feeling shamed.

Somewhat disappointed that he did not fight the insolent youth, the students gathered around the old master and questioned him. "How could you endure such an indignity? How did you drive him away?"

"If someone comes to give you a gift and you do not receive it," the master replied, "to whom does the gift belong?"

I think this story gives the best response to any insult!

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
44. I love that example. It's very much like something my father told me one day when I was puzzled.
Sat May 11, 2013, 01:51 PM
May 2013

Well, more than puzzled, but I put it in terms of a question. The boys at the school felt they were entitled to gang up and throw rock at girls, call them names, and laugh at them. I got that treatment that afternoon, being called a witch by boys and asked my dad why they did such a thing and what did that mean?

He told me that they didn't know anything about me, so nothing they said was true. And that the names only showed what they were and would never be me.

(I also created a default position which I called the 'jerk box' part of my brain. To not puzzle over such things, just toss 'em there and forget 'em. Like DU Ignore.)

But back to the above, like the old master, I did not accept their gift and let them keep it. Because if you deny the abuser power within your own mind, you see just how miserable the person is.

I've told kids that anyone who comes to threaten or bully with an angry face or yells, 'I've got a problem with you!' - just slow yourself down and then break down what they said:

They have a problem.

And it's their problem.

It is not your problem.

Thus, it's not about you.

Don't let them make it about you.

You have a choice, now that you know what the anger is about.

Someone has a problem, you are not the problem.

Listen or do not listen, since you're doing them a favor by giving them your time.

But not yourself, never.

Enjoyed your story. See you later.

LostOne4Ever

(9,288 posts)
57. I think your example is better
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:08 AM
May 2013

I think your example is better, because yours is based on real life and mine is just a parable.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
60. Same feeling and logic. Lao Tzu's Tao Te Ching and Alan Watts influenced me as a teenager.
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:29 AM
May 2013

Loved it, the koans and Japanese Zen tales such as The Strawberry, that went like this:



There was once a man who was being chased by a ferocious tiger across a field.

At the edge of the field there was a cliff. In order to escape the jaws of the tiger, the man caught hold of a vine and swung himself over the edge of the cliff.

Dangling down, he saw, to his dismay, there were more tigers on the ground below him!

And, furthermore, two little mice were gnawing on the vine to which he clung. He knew that at any moment he would fall to certain death.

That's when he noticed a wild strawberry growing on the cliff wall.

Clutching the vine with one hand, he plucked the strawberry with the other and put it in his mouth.

He never before realized how sweet a strawberry could taste.


Life is like that sometimes.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
24. this really feels like a right wing post
Sat May 11, 2013, 05:50 AM
May 2013

Last edited Sat May 11, 2013, 07:23 AM - Edit history (2)

It's not just that you're spelling and grammar challenged, it's the flavor of your post.

 

Travis_0004

(5,417 posts)
30. I don't think the term short is offense.
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:08 AM
May 2013

I would probably just use the word short, when you say vertically challenged, it sounds like you are just beating around the bush.


Disclaimer, I'm 6'3, so I don't have may people describe me as short, so maybe I'm wrong.

freshwest

(53,661 posts)
61. Vertically challenged indicates a problem. Tall and short are lengths.
Sun May 12, 2013, 01:04 AM
May 2013

Now if someone was to call you freakishly tall or gawky at 6'3", I can tell you, that's just jealousy.

I'm unhappy about my height as it was always impractical in my work and I feel like a damned monkey having to get up on a step to reach the top shelves in my apartment.

The guy that does maintenance at my building can even reach the smoke detector and change out the ceiling lights with his feet on the floor. I'm insanely jealous of that. I blame my tall father for marrying my little bitty mother.

What the hell was he thinking?

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
34. You don't consider "vertically challenged" as rude?
Sat May 11, 2013, 09:42 AM
May 2013

As someone who is small myself, I find it rude. But I know you are jesting, aren't you?

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
37. If asked to describe a person's height I think it's better to say "about"5'1" or 4'11" whichever
Sat May 11, 2013, 10:00 AM
May 2013

height you think is accurate.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
38. That is fine. Even calling someone short is not insulting. It's a fact, but
Sat May 11, 2013, 10:02 AM
May 2013

vertically challenged?

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
39. I would, and have, filled out reports and said "Shorter than the average man, approx, 5'6" and I do
Sat May 11, 2013, 10:15 AM
May 2013

not think that's offensive.
I coworker filled out an accident report and under "body shape" he put "fat". The woman got the report prior to trial and objected to the agency and my coworker was told to find another descriptor. "Heavy set" was what was settled on. I didn't think "fat" as describing body type should have been used on an official report.
Public servants used to be required, and usually did, to take all sorts of oral abuse. I never minded as long as the subject was just venting; I could always say, Get it out of your system now because they are not going to put up with it down at the station.
As long as they weren't a danger to me, they could say anything they wanted; some of it was quite comical in retrospect.

Cleita

(75,480 posts)
40. I don't think asking for body shape is an appropriate question even for an accident report.
Sat May 11, 2013, 10:24 AM
May 2013

Putting one's height and weight should be sufficient and let the reader imagine the body shape from those stats. Heavy set is another weasel word phrase like vertically challenged. Overweight is more accurate and less offensive.

 

byeya

(2,842 posts)
41. I agree with you and this was 40 years ago. I don't think this question appears on current motor
Sat May 11, 2013, 10:31 AM
May 2013

vehicle accident reports but is on arrest reports and incident reports.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
56. Of course!!
Sun May 12, 2013, 12:01 AM
May 2013

I don't think I've ever ACTUALLY referred to someone as "vertically challenged". Except my mother and that was said purely in love. I'm just using some examples that are more commonly stated. I think in all honesty that some things that are concidered "politically correct" can be more offensive then the actual ailment. And I think the ways words are perceived is orally individual in its self. For example, I'd rather be called fat then squat but ultimately if given a choice, I'd pick over weight. Or heavy. But short is short. I call my mom short as my brothers call ME SHORT. If I were called vertically challenged, I think I'd be pretty ticked off. How ever, working with the general public and special needs children, I will never refer to someone as retarded. Unless I'm using it offensively. "Retard or retarded" down right pisses me off. I think politically correctness is all in the eye of the beholder. What one person sees fit another may disagree. The english language is soooo damn tricky. As is judging or trying to judge someone else's view of it!! -just sayin'-

Dash87

(3,220 posts)
53. I cannot pretend to be nice or to actually care about others.
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:04 PM
May 2013

I would be really bad at a customer service job. I might horrify you.

Seriously, though, give me someone that speaks up if they hate me over a fake "nice" person any day. At least I know where we're standing.

Nine

(1,741 posts)
54. I think you're punking us.
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:12 PM
May 2013

Your ideas of "political correctness" sound like a right-wing parody. I never try to be "politically correct;" instead I just try not to be an ass to people. I find very little need to refer to anyone's physical characteristics.

janlyn

(735 posts)
55. call me whatever you want..
Sat May 11, 2013, 04:14 PM
May 2013

I am autistic so call me autistic!! I think some people are just to sensitive and need to get over it!!
However when it comes to calling someone names, I personally feel that it is a sign of low intelligence.
I find that when confronted with a rude person and ignorant person , that sweetness and the use of superfluous verbage works very well to baffle and confuse them.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
62. For those of you being accused or accusing someone of being "right winged"
Sun May 12, 2013, 02:52 AM
May 2013

"Right wing" redirects here. For conservative political thought, see conservatism.
Part of the Politics series
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v t e
In politics, right-wing describes an outlook or specific position that seeks to justify social hierarchy or social inequality.[1][2][3][4] Social hierarchy and social inequality is viewed by those affiliated with the Right as either inevitable, natural, normal, or desirable,[2] whether it arises through traditional social differences[5] or from competition in market economies.[6][7] It typically accepts or justifies this position on the basis of natural law or tradition.[4][8][9][10][11]

The political terms Right and Left were coined during the French Revolution (1789–99), and referred to where politicians sat in the French parliament; those who sat to the right of the chair of the parliamentary president were broadly supportive of the institutions of the monarchist Ancien Régime.[12][13][14][15] The original Right in France was formed as a reaction against the Left, and comprised those politicians supporting hierarchy, tradition, and clericalism.[16] The use of the expression la droite (the right) became prominent in France after the restoration of the monarchy in 1815, when le droit was applied to describe the Ultra-royalists.[17] In English-speaking countries it was not until the 20th century that people applied the terms "right" and "left" to their own politics.[18]

From the 1830s to the 1880s, there was a shift in the Western world of social class structure and the economy, moving away from the nobility and mercantilism, and moving towards the bourgeoisie and capitalism.[19] This general economic shift towards capitalism affected centre right movements such as the British Conservative Party that responded by becoming supportive of capitalism.[20]

Although the term 'right-wing' originally designated traditional conservatives and reactionaries, it has also been used to describe classical liberals, Christian democrats, racists, and nationalists.[15]


Just for your info.

Locut0s

(6,154 posts)
65. Actually I think the first part you said you are fine with is stupid...
Sun May 12, 2013, 08:00 AM
May 2013

When there has been a genuine recorded history of systematic abuse, debasement and or torture we can have a legitimate argument about terminology. Hence the proper retirement of coloured people, chinamen, spastic, retard etc etc... But when it's seriously about just not hurting someone's oversensitive feelings or catering to their very specific but groundless moral values. No. Its Christmas god dam it and I'm a strong atheist. I myself am fat not heavy set. My uncle is short and he knows it and talks about it, vertically fucking challenged. Lol.

MineralMan

(146,288 posts)
69. The easiest thing to do is not to refer to people's
Sun May 12, 2013, 03:18 PM
May 2013

physical characteristics at all when talking about or to them. What does it matter if the person is short or tall, thin or heavy, or any other characteristic? If asked to describe someone to the police, perhaps, a literal description would be useful. Otherwise, I don't see how it is.

Instead, refer to the person by name, if you know it. If you don't know their name, then why would you be referring to them at all?

As my mother said, "It's never polite to refer to someone's appearance."

She's very smart.

MichelleB

(80 posts)
70. ...agreed MineralMan!! :D
Sun May 12, 2013, 10:51 PM
May 2013

She def sounds really smart!! There's not that many times when I've had to discribe someone's physical apperence unless I need to describe them to someone else for what ever reason. For example... A man comes into a store asking if his wife "Judith" had been there. Well after seeing a hundred different people, I'd Never know the difference between "Judith" or "Beth" unless she was described to me by her physical apperence. I.E. she's tall, thin, red hair with a pink strip. Now.. Having seen a bunch of tall, thin, red headed woman the part that's going to stand out to me is the pink strip in her hair. Now if he'd said she extremely thin or above average height, then I think I might have a better idea. this is just a scenario. I've never actually been asked if I'd seen Judith. Lol.

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