I'll believe gun advocates care more about kids than guns when they...

[CreekDog]

post about the rights, safety, healthcare and education of children as much as they do about guns.

in the meantime, i'll not be holding my breath.

[Recursion]

1. I mostly post about agriculture subsidies

Where am I on that?

[Recursion]

7. Have you weighted my post count since DU2? I have.

I mostly post about ag.

[CreekDog]

8. you're saying you mostly do something you haven't done since DU2?

uh huh. go on.

you decided to make this ridiculous argument. i didn't force you to make a fool of yourself here.

[Decoy of Fenris]

19. Ooh. You might not be holding your breath, but you'll be holding your tongue.

Tough Jury that nailed your above post. Can't say even I can find anything wrong with it, even squinting and looking at it sideways.

[Skittles]

2. nothing trumps their paranoia

NOTHING

[Junkdrawer]

9. Yep. I think they're in the toils of an addiction...

And addicts are just not capable of caring about anything BUT their addiction. Addiction HALTS emotional growth.

I pray gunners get THEIR Dr. Bob and Bill Wilson someday.

On Edit:

A bottle (AND a hunk of hardened steel) is the WRONG place to find courage.

[Skittles]

24. that is a plausible analysis

yup

[Junkdrawer]

28. The problem with finding courage in a hunk of hardened steel: The feeling of empowerment fades....

So you:

1.) Admit that you looked for courage in the wrong place (I wish)

--- or ----

2.) You buy another gun, hopefully bigger and even more powerful (Seems to be the most popular answer)

Now, wonder why the gunners HATE the "anti-gun" weenies who want to ban assault rifles? Why gunners fill their home with weapons of every description. Why bump stocks and tech triggers are so popular?

[onehandle]

4. Silly. Kids don't have their own misinterpreted Amendment to hide behind.

Or an army of corporation funded lobbyists bathing in their blood.

Why should an army of paranoid basement dwellers care?

[Decoy of Fenris]

5. Have you considered not using dead children and broken families as crutches for your debates?

That might help a bit. Most of us RKBA folks are quite reasonable and willing to compromise or accept legislation that will show tangible benefits. Hell, this thread about gun control... http://www.democraticunderground.com/12622919 ... was accepted and commented on by RKBA folks more than the gun control crew.

We're not as uncompromising as you may think.

[onehandle]

11. Pro Tip: Starting off with an NRAGOPTeahadist talking point is not wise.

Goodbye.

[Scuba]

12. This debate is 100% about dead kids, dead adults and broken families.

[laundry_queen]

13. Exactly

it's not a 'crutch' - it IS the debate. Jesus Fuck.

[Decoy of Fenris]

17. Not "exactly". Not even close.

If the debate was about dead kids and adults, then the rightwing arguments of pools and cars killing more people would hold water. It's not about the deaths, it isn't even about the life; it's about the gun. Gun Control folks who trot out children and make false appeals to emotion -have- no argument, because there is no argument to be made. People die from one cause or another; a gun is a convenient scapegoat upon which to place blame and scorn, and more often than not, those crying the loudest for bans and confiscations are the same people who would never take part in firearm-related activities regardless. To them, it's win/win; they lose nothing while forcing others to lose something. It is arrogant self-righteous mental masturbation in the extreme , and none of it is "for the children".

You want to know why people like me aren't affected by the "Dead children" argument? Because people die. Adults die, elders die, children die, babies die, all from all manner of causes that -aren't- guns, some of which are preventable. I have yet to see anyone give me a reason for gun control that doesn't boil down to the right-wing authoritarian meme of "Think of the children!"

Does that make me cruel and callous? Possibly, but as I mentioned above, I am not beyond reason. Show me a way to easily prevent gun violence and deaths largely without impacting the common everyday gun owner and I'll be on board with financial and physical support in a heartbeat. However, I rather dislike "BAN ALL THE EVERYTHING BECAUSE OMG THE CHILDREN" as a rally call, what with being a progressive Democrat and all.


Let's start small, though. Would you tell me one reason why gun control is a necessity, with one caveat: "People dying" doesn't count as a reason. If you can do that, then we're getting somewhere in an active dialogue.

[jmg257]

21. Do you think if nobody was shot by people with guns, that anyone would still want to control them?

Why would ANYONE waste time & money trying to implement control if there was no associated danger?
Seems a rather silly notion.

So - it makes sense that the #1 reason why gun control is needed is simply because people get shot by people with guns.

Why should any measure that can make a difference have to leave you unimpacted? What makes certain gun owners so special, or selfish, that they cannot tolerate a little change in behavior that postively affects everyone? Yes - people die all the time. And watching 'em get mowed down 20-30 at a time - by some ass with a gun - presents no problem to you. Is there any number who would have to get shot before you would suffer a little inconvenience?

[Decoy of Fenris]

23. Honestly? Yes. There are always people who wish to control the lives of others.

"Why should any measure that can make a difference have to leave you unimpacted?"

I never said it -had- to. I find it undesirable, and prefer to find something that works equally well without impacting others. This is borderline impossible with the die-hard extremist Controllers. The new law in Olympia Washington does -exactly- that, and it has my full support.


"What makes certain gun owners so special, or selfish, that they cannot tolerate a little change in behavior that postively affects everyone? "

Obviously it doesn't positively affect -them-, therefore, it does not positively affect everyone, defeating your question with itself.


"Is there any number who would have to get shot before you would suffer a little inconvenience?"

To be blunt, no, so long as there are options available. If, down the line, all non-intrusive legislation has failed, -then- I would be willing to consider blanket bans and such extremes. If there are no options outside of a complete ban, then the ban would have my support, albeit unwilling in the extreme.

[laundry_queen]

30. I vote this as

most sociopathic post ever made here at DU. I feel sorry for you, to have such a large empty space where empathy and emotion usually reside.

We all die, so to the hell with trying to stop it. Oh, and don't inconvenience the gun owners in the meantime.

I'm a progressive. I CARE about children. I care about people dying, whether from pools or cars or disease or guns. I won't have a dialogue with someone who DOESN'T care. Good-bye. You just made the OP's point. Congrats.

[OneGrassRoot]

6. I think that is a valid point.

I've noticed that my friends on FB, for example, who are gun advocates ONLY post about guns, not other issues affecting our society. Well, other than taxes.

After Sandy Hook and other tragedies, they didn't even post condolences and such. After a few days, it was the "Obama's gonna take our guns" posts.

And these are people who have children...and grandchildren.

I realize not everyone who is a gun advocate is like that, and not everyone who is a gun advocate supports the NRA and their views, but the people I know do tend to be single-issue people: guns. There is no compromise, no discussion. Everything is a "slippery slope" to them.

I find that very odd and disconcerting.

I also realize this is just anecdotal, but in my experience these same people have veered into the Rand Paul, The Blaze and Alex Jones camp over the last six months.

That is VERY disconcerting.

[loyalsister]

27. friends on FB

Many of mine have done the same. Worst of all is the Obama hate they post. The pro-gun Obama hate combination really disturbs me. "Where is Lee Harvey when you need him"? was the most disgusting status messages I have had the displeasure to see so far.

[aikoaiko]

10. Some people post about guns a majority of the time because they think

this is an issue where too many Democrats are wrong and it costs us elections.

Plus we seem to have a new crop of anti-gun advocates who only post about anti-gun advocacy. Don't hold your breath for them either.

[sorefeet]

14. What the fuck are YOU doing for the children

Sit here and bad mouth the fuckin gun nuts, big fucking deal. That really helps. Our politicians just told us to get fucked and all of you people who have kids did WHAT. They have been feeding your children to the military and the prisons for 60 years now that I know of and ain't nobody does shit about it but boo hoo. If your so concerned about the kids do something. I see children used for hype from both sides and if you really cared about the kids this wouldn't even be a conversation.

[pintobean]

15. Great thread

[Lizzie Poppet]

16. Works both ways.

It seems that a whole bunch of gun control advocates on the trainwreck that GD has become spend their time slinging insults at gun owners...and say fuck-all about "the rights, safety, healthcare and education of children." I'll believe they care more about kids than their hatred when...

You see where this is going, I trust?

[ZombieHorde]

18. If you think you're psychic, then you should go get tested by psycop.

They'll give you one-million dollars if you're right.

If you don't think you're psychic, but rather think you have figured out some causality, then I'm sorry to tell you that you have failed. Better luck next time.

Personally, my fingers are crossed that you believe you're psychic.

[rrneck]

22. You need to get out more.

DU can be an interesting place to discuss any number of things for any number of reasons. But most people's lives do not revolve around DU, so totaling up what they talk about is an exercise if futility.

[beevul]

25. I'll believe the same thing about gun control advocates when they...

I'll believe the same thing about gun control advocates, when they start proposing things that would actually prevent the events they're so enraged about, rather than plucking proposals from their 20 plus year old wish list which would not prevent those events at all.


It cuts both ways.

[upaloopa]

26. Not taking a side here but you could replace gun

with car, bike, knitting or any number of avocations.

[MichiganVote]

29. So you think Grandma wants to stick a knitting needle in junior?

That's the problem?

[upaloopa]

31. No the problem is the OP is a worthless piece of dung

[MichiganVote]

32. That's not nice.

[upaloopa]

33. The OP insinuates that a whole group of

people don't care about kids and you say what I posted is not nice. You have a weird sense of values.

[MichiganVote]

34. That's not nice either but have a nice day!