So the Patriot Act is biting the Tea Baggers on the ass. Awww.

[Atman]

We told you this kind of shit would happen. The AP scandal, and even the IRS investigations, are made possible because we allowed the Patriot Act to stand. They thought it would only be used against AQ, Commies and liberals. Silly Tea Baggers.

[KharmaTrain]

1. It's Whose Ox Is Being Gored...

...I still need more info on these "scandals" until I start getting outraged. I do not like what I'm hearing regarding the AP as it is an attack and intimidation of the press. We live in a world where information is the new battleground and many of us knew that if the government was given powers to tap phones and email that abuses would happen. The hypocrisy on this will be the "poutrage" from the right wing jackals who were more than happy to justify exposing an undercover CIA agent and then lying about it. Many of these goons not only supported FISA but wanted it to be even more regressive. I want to find out to what length the DOJ tapped the phones, if there was a warrant to tap those phones and if what they did was legal under what is still a very draconian law. Sadly I don't see the wingnuts joining to repeal this breach of personal and professional privacy...they'll only play political games with it and the corporate media will play right along with them...

[Atman]

3. Good post. I Agree.

[LannyDeVaney]

19. Where are you reading the phones were tapped?

Everything I've read/heard this morning indicated the subpoena'd information was a listing of phone numbers called and length of call. No recording of conversations, etc...

[Atman]

45. That is also what I have read. It's all being conflated into something "worse."

Yes, it's bad even for what it was. But the "news" is out whipping up the people, getting everyone riled up, by deliberately NOT explaining the difference between simply seeking "phone records" and actual wiretapping of conversations. From what I understand, the were looking for connections in an anti-terrorism investigation. I thought the GOP and Tea Baggers loved that kind of anti-terra stuff?

Likewise, the "news" is not explaining in the slightest what the IRS was doing -- investigating the activities of organizations claiming to be "social welfare" non-profits. I could make the same claim that "home office workers" are singled out by the IRS for claiming home-office deductions. That is a "red flag" on your tax return. But instead, everyone I've talked to insists that Tea Baggers are being singled our for AUDITS. That simply isn't what this fake scandal is about. But it is sure working for the GOP, thanks to the complicit American media.

[Berlum]

44. + 1

[mikeysnot]

2. "If you got nothing to hide"

wasn't that the meme?

Thanks Obama.

[Puzzledtraveller]

4. Tea Partiers supported the patriot act?

[tridim]

5. Teabaggers support everything Republicans support.

If the say otherwise they're lying.

[BlueCaliDem]

6. TeaBaggers only supported the Patriot Act under a Republican president.

Their silence was deafening. Only when a Democratic president won the election did they suddenly come together, hold hands, and wail that there was a Patriot Act and began forming 501.c4's with corporate money.

So yeah, the TeaBagger Party supported the Patriot Act when they voted to re-elect Bush in 2004.

[Megalo_Man]

8. The tea party didn't exist until 2008.

[BlueCaliDem]

10. Yeah, actually they did. Back then they just called themselves Republicans or Conservatives.

There is NO difference between the TeaBagger Party and the Republicans/Conservatives. Think Dick Army, the Republican who headed Freedom Works with Koch Bros' corporate cash and who got an eight million dollar severance package when he left.

TeaBaggers vote and support the Republican Party. They are Republicans. Period. Anyone saying differently is lying.

[Megalo_Man]

13. That may be the case now, but in the beginning

it was mostly made up of disgruntled republicans, democrats, and people without a party affiliation that agreed with what the tea party initially stood for. Then the Koch brothers and the 'traditional' republicans essentially stole the term tea party and masqueraded as it in order to stop the divergence of voters. Now, in 2013, it is the same thing as the republican party, but saying that it started that way is simply wrong.

[BlueCaliDem]

14. If you're referring to the Tea Party people in 1773, you're correct.

It was made up of disgruntled colonists, started by disgruntled colonists.

But if you're referring to the TeaBagger Party of 2008, they were shame-faced Republicans who voted not once but twice, for GWBush, but who were now ashamed to be associated with the Republican Party yet were still happily engaged to vote and support them, then you're wrong.

They have always been Republicans. But back in 2008, they were just too embarrassed to associate themselves with the Republican Party and to acknowledge that they helped the Republicans to nearly destroy this country due to failed Republican policies that they helped by voting those clowns into office.

Oh, and of course they were 100% against that black man who won their White House.

[Progressive dog]

23. Exactly

TeaBaggers have always been Republicans.

[BlueCaliDem]

27. Yep. And anyone who says differently is lying to you.

Once upon a time I admired their passion, having for a few moments actually believed that they were separate from the Republican Party when they sent their poutraged denizens of the right-wing fringe on talk shows to excoriate the Republicans for being the big spenders that the CATO Institute had labeled them as.

But after being told that President Clinton actually shrank government, paid down the deficit, balanced the budget, and created an atmosphere that created 22 million jobs - just as they said they were fighting for - and then asked if they'd support Hillary Rodham Clinton since she would obviously follow in her husband's footsteps, they said, no. They said they would vote for John McCain.

This proved that TeaBaggers are just Republicans under another name and all their bullshit about caring about deficits, shrinking government, jobs for the American people was just that: bullshit. They were born out of corporate cash to do the bidding of Big Corp - to replace democracy with fascism. No different than the Republican Party of Reagan.

[uponit7771]

26. +1, TECHNICALLY EVERY Tea Party member in Congress is a registered Republican and caucuses

...with republican caucus

[Brother Buzz]

40. TECHNICALLY there was a Tea Party caucus - just don't tell Michele Bachmann it's DOA

Here's a fine list of nimrods who were members House Tea Party caucus:

# Rodney Alexander, Louisiana
# Michele Bachmann, Minnesota, Chair
# Joe Barton, Texas
# Gus Bilirakis, Florida
# Rob Bishop, Utah
# Diane Black, Tennessee
# Michael C. Burgess, Texas
# Paul Broun, Georgia
# John Carter, Texas
# Bill Cassidy, Louisiana
# Howard Coble, North Carolina
# Mike Coffman, Colorado
# Ander Crenshaw, Florida
# John Culberson, Texas
# Jeff Duncan, South Carolina
# Blake Farenthold, Texas
# Stephen Fincher, Tennessee
# John Fleming, Louisiana
# Trent Franks, Arizona
# Phil Gingrey, Georgia
# Louie Gohmert, Texas
# Vicky Hartzler, Missouri
# Tim Huelskamp, Kansas
# Lynn Jenkins, Kansas
# Steve King, Iowa
# Doug Lamborn, Colorado
# Blaine Luetkemeyer, Missouri
# Kenny Marchant, Texas
# Tom McClintock, California
# David McKinley, West Virginia
# Gary Miller, California
# Mick Mulvaney, South Carolina
# Randy Neugebauer, Texas
# Rich Nugent, Florida
# Steven Palazzo, Mississippi
# Steve Pearce, New Mexico
# Ted Poe, Texas
# Tom Price, Georgia
# Phil Roe, Tennessee
# Dennis Ross, Florida
# Ed Royce, California
# Steve Scalise, Louisiana
# Pete Sessions, Texas
# Adrian Smith, Nebraska
# Lamar S. Smith, Texas
# Tim Walberg, Michigan
# Lynn Westmoreland, Georgia
# Joe Wilson, South Carolina

[BlueCaliDem]

49. Yep. If it walks with the Republicans, talks with the Republicans, filibuster with the Republicans

they are Republicans. There's no overcoming the writing on the wall, and it doesn't matter how they want to label themselves in the political arena. They've shown their allegiance, and it's Republican. No amount of excuses can change that glaring fact.

[Megalo_Man]

33. Well, that settles it. You're right, and I'm wrong.

I couldn't have actually, you know, been employed by an organization who made it their business to know these things. I'm just some guy, talking about things I know nothing at all about. You've shown me the errors of my ways.

Or, and this is just a slight possibility of course: maybe you don't have a clue what you're talking about, and I can say definitively that the tea party was made up of 49% former registered Republicans, 37% former registered Democrats, and the remaining 14% being former-independents-constitutionalists-others or newly registered voters as of December, 2009. I don't know who they voted for, however. I'm going to guess that they probably, mostly, likely voted for Ron Paul.

This is a free country so you are free to continue thinking you are right if it makes you feel like a special snowflake.
Makes no difference, the tea party is irrelevant now.

[dmr]

39. You can't blame DUers doubting your info if you don't provide us with links

We don't know where you've worked, or know where and how you've arrived at those stats.

It's a long DU tradition to back up what we say. We're all about learning and exchanging ideas.

There's no need to insult a DUer. Any one can say anything on the internet, but unless it's backed up with credible links ... well, very few here will take your word for it. Can you blame them?

Let's all be on friendly terms. Welcome to DU.

[Megalo_Man]

43. My apologies.

I did not mean to, nor did I insult him. Unfortunately I'm not able to provide any links to voter registration data because this isn't publicly available information, so you'll have to take my word for it, which I don't expect anyone to do. Truthfully, I do not really care because the tea party is irrelevant now as a political entity, and I think we can all agree on that.

[BlueCaliDem]

41. Thank you, "Snowflake-Noob" with the 22 posts!

I really don't give a good goddamn who you'd been employed with. Percentages don't show shit. Those 37% registered "Democrats" were more like Southern Dixiecrats who still call themselves Democrats but who vote Republican - and they still do exist, ya know. Who's to know the exact make-up of those TeaBaggers? Who CARES?

All the leaders of the largest TeaBagger movements rushed to cable shows on Fox and the Republican-friendly Hardball on MSNBC to pledge to vote Republican. They said so. If it makes you feel like a special little snowflake as you try to minimize their political allegiance and influence in our country, the painful fact for you remains that they were funded by Big Corp and Big Corp backs the Republican Party. Period.

And if you believe the TeaBagger Party is irrelevant now, you need to review your information. It's because of their presence in the U.S. Congress and state legislatures that we get gems like transvaginal probes and attacks on Planned Parenthood. It's because of them we can't get the American Jobs Bill to even be voted on in the House. It's because of them we got idiots in the Senate like Randy Paul, Marco Rubio, and Crazy Cruz filibustering weak gun control bills that 90% of the American people support. So brava Megalo for trying to defend and stand up for these miscreants. Unfortunately, you're on the WRONG site to do it. This isn't the TeaBagger Underground. It's the DEMOCRATIC Underground.

[Megalo_Man]

46. Not me, and I don't care what the exact makeup was.

I was simply pointing out that your statements are about the makeup of the tea party when it formed were wrong based on the information available to me. As a political party, there is no real 'tea party' anymore, therefore it is irrelevant. I do not 'defend and stand up for these miscreants.' I defend and stand up for the truth, regardless of what it is. It is pretty obvious to me that you just want to have the last word on this, so have at it. If you think that a bunch of politicrooks who jumped on the tea-party bandwagon and bastardized it somehow make the term or the party relevant when there are less than 600 people in the entire country who are active members of the tea party, then go ahead and think that.

[bahrbearian]

15. Right On

[Savannahmann]

22. By the same token.

We protested the PATRIOT ACT and Candidate Obama promised to repeal it. Instead he signed the reauthorization of it as President Obama. One of the lowest points of his Presidency IMO.

Now, the obvious question. Are we no better than the RW, objecting to the PATRIOT ACT when we are the target and enjoying the power when we are the ones abusing the power?

[BlueCaliDem]

37. The Patriot Act under Bush is not the same as the one under President Obama.

There are key differences.

You can agree or disagree with the President on the re-authorization of certain Patriot Act provisions (after they'd been amended to include greater judicial and Congressional oversight in 2006 with Senator Obama's support). You can challenge it on civil liberties grounds. But you cannot deny that since President Obama became president in 2008, hate groups of the Timothy McVeigh type have SURGED.

The Southern Poverty Law Center that monitors hate groups in the United States, said in a letter to U.S. Attorney Eric Holder and Homeland Security Secretary Janet Napolitano that patriot groups now hold the potential for a wave of domestic terrorism. The groups overshadow the danger posed by more traditional hate groups - neo-Nazis and others dedicated against blacks, Latinos, Catholics and Muslims, for example, the report found. The group's letter urged federal officials to create a new task force to assess federal resources devoted to the threat.

In October 1994, the law center wrote to then-Attorney General Janet Reno about the growing threat of domestic extremism. The Oklahoma City federal building was bombed six months later.

The law center found 1,360 patriot groups in 2012 – an 813% rise since 2008, the year before Obama took office. Of those groups, 321 constitute militias. The law center also found a near-record 1,007 hate groups with animus directed at minorities, gay men, lesbians, and transgender individuals in 2012. That's a slight decline from the 1,018 groups counted in 2011.

This ain't FDR's America anymore.

I just wonder . . . had there been a Patriot Act during JFK's presidency, would history about this president be different today? And JFK was a White man. Okay, he was the first Catholic president, but he was at least White.

[Megalo_Man]

7. When the tea party started out

it was very outspokenly against the Patriot Act. That seemed to change over time as it became co-opted by other interests. Nothing "new" started in terms of domestic spying capability when the patriot act was made into law. The CIA, NRO and FBI had the capability to monitor domestic cellular communications without a warrant, they just couldn't use any of that information to legally prosecute someone based on any evidence gained by that monitoring. They were already mirroring fiber data into those "closets." The Patriot Act laid the legal foundation for information that was already being retained to be used against individuals in the name of National Security. There was no such thing as modern-day NSL's prior to that. It essentially just made what they were already doing illegally - legal, and admissible in court.

[BlueCaliDem]

11. Yep. When they started out they were against the Patriot Act only because a Black man and Democrat

won the 2008 election for president.

They were mum throughout the years under Bush.

They are a fake poutrage group-of-Republicans-under-another-name that wanted to distance itself from the Republican brand when that party brought down this country's economy and pushed it to the brink of financial catastrophe, backed by corporate cash.

[bahrbearian]

16. I know Tea Baggers that hated the patriot act from the get go.

[tridim]

18. You likely know Randite libertarians who wear the teabagger label for some reason.

[bahrbearian]

21. No they weren't ,

[Ter]

32. The Pat Buchanan paleo-cons despise the Patriot Act too

McClintoch is no libertarian and he opposed it. Many hard-right conservatives always hated it, and always hated Bush type neo-cons.

[BlueCaliDem]

24. I don't. If they hated the Patriot Act from the get go, then why did they vote

Republican again and again and again?

Of course they know that the Patriot Act is originally a Republican law, right? To now say they hated the Patriot Act is just too much fiction - based on their support and voting pattern with the Republican party - to swallow for any thinking American.

[bahrbearian]

25. This was in 2004 to today, and they hated Chimpy.

You need to get out more, because they are everywhere, they are your Family, Friends , neighbors...

[BlueCaliDem]

29. Bullshit.

They voted for Chimpy in 2004. The "leaders" of the TeaBagger Party were asked on countless MSNBC shows and asked point-blank if they voted for Kerry or Duhbya, and they openly admitted that they voted for Duhbya . . . TWICE.

So, TeaBagger-defender, I'm not the one who needs to "get out more". And as an aside, I don't have TeaBagger family, friends, or neighbors {that I associate with}. I don't hang out with stupid.

[bahrbearian]

31. No they didn't vote for Chimpy. Do you get all your personal contacts off the TV.

[Atman]

35. I disagree. I think you'll find pretty much all of them did.

After the utter embarrassment of GWB, they split into a couple of new factions...the GOP voters who now call themselves Libertarians (but most couldn't name a Lib candidate if you put a non-licensed handgun to their head); or the fake "Grass Roots" Tea Bagger GOP voters who thought they were standing up for the Constitution (or hated the black president), but in actuality were just stooges and pawns of the Koch Brothers; and the traditional GOP voters who tend to despise poor rural sponges like Tea Baggers and any person of color and pointy-headed elites from New England. But the on thing they all have in common is that at the end of the day, they all vote GOP.

[bahrbearian]

42. I agree,but you can't pigeon hole everyone, labels don't always stick. That is the Point I'm making

[tridim]

48. You're right, they did vote for *, twice.

I watched it happen.

They will however, not admit it now.

[ljm2002]

9. Unfortunately...

...our side has already started apologizing. Our President has already assumed that it was a search for right-leaning organizations and has pre-expressed his outrage, "should that turn out to be the case".

So any mileage we might have gotten out of it is gone, poof! and instead our President is left looking like his administration was doing something shady.

Those searches were reasonable. We had organizations engaging in political activities, trying to get tax-exempt status. More of said organizations were from the right than were from the left. So searching for political keywords turned up more conservative organizations. Who'da thunk?

Obama pre-emptively apologized on this, so he could turn around and be a little more aggressive (but not much) in his reaction to the Bhengazi BS.

Too bad. It could have been a great moment to orate on the perils of giving tax-exempt status to overtly political organizations. Instead we got "Hey, well next time it could be a Republican administration doing it, and we don't want that now do we?" But it always IS Republican administrations who do the enemies lists, etc.; who staff Federal departments with their ideologues, etc. The IRS this time was engaging in a reasonable activity but the rightist ideologues were not happy with the results and so they started a hue and cry, and predictably, our side caved before even doing a proper look into it.

What a load of crap.

[BlueCaliDem]

12. I'm very disappointed in President Obama about this as well.

I don't see what the reason is for the president to be so heated about the IRS doing their job. The thing the president should have been outraged about is that the IRS had changed the word "exclusively" to "primarily" in Section 501(c)(4) of the tax code. That should be the outrage and the scandal: that the IRS is allowed to change the language in the tax code. Isn't that Congress' exclusive right under the U.S. Constitution?

[redgreenandblue]

17. A certain segment of the population will always insist on learning things the hard way.

Be it oil spills, drones, climate change, wars or tightening all the screws on a rocket you are about to launch, for some people a "told you so" after the fact is the only argument that is valid.

[Whiskeytide]

20. My dad use to say...

..."some things can't be taught, they have to be learned". I know what you mean.

[Blue Owl]

28. Hope the IRS bags a few of these teabilly tax cheats

Make an example of 'em!

[Ter]

30. The real Tea Baggers always opposed the Patriot Act

You're confusing them with neo-cons. The Bush/Cheney/Rove majority LOVE the Patriot Act. Tea Baggers despise that wing of the party.

Then there are the teo-cons. They act like Tea Baggers in the primary, but are really neo-cons in disguise, and the establishment loves them. The poster boy for this is Marco Rubio.

[Atman]

36. There are no "real Tea Baggers."

The whole organization is a fraud Astro-Turf creation of the far right. Sure, there were hillbillies who glommed on, embarrassed by W, but the Tea Bag "Party" was not a true uprising that would have happened had the Koch's not funded giant tour busses for them and Fox New not hosted big rallies for them.

[Puzzledtraveller]

38. That's a good description

especially how peope like Rubio appeal to the libertarian/tea party segment for votes. They've even been looking at Rand Paul differently since he made remarks about being okay with drones after Boston.

[Ganja Ninja]

34. Excuse me for not getting upset on their behalf.

Let me know when they start busting their heads with billy clubs or shooting them with rubber bullets.

[Dawson Leery]

47. Remember the pro-war rallies in 2003? Teabaggers!