About Ariel Castro's lawyers

[BainsBane]

I get that Castro deserves a vigorous defense because that is crucial to our justice system. Why, however, do his lawyers need to go on TV and say the media has unfairly vilified their client? One said that the media portrays Castro as a monster, but he didn't seem that way to him. Most of his neighbors and family didn't think he was a monster either--until they pulled three young women who had been held captive in his house for ten years. Do the lawyers really think it helps their case to talk like that to the media? IMO, the best thing they can do is try to plead him to life in prison.

[JI7]

1. this is what i didn't get either, how is this supposed to help him

if anything it will just make people even more disgusted with him and the lawyers.

it's one thing to put up a defense in court, but how is this supposed to help. i really wonder what defense they are going to go for.

from what i see so far it looks like they might try to say the girls wanted to be held there.

[BainsBane]

2. That would be a very bad decision

Maybe some of the lawyers on the site will comment.

[Nye Bevan]

3. I'm guessing they took the case to get publicity.

They will do whatever they can to appear on TV as much as possible in order to further this aim.

[BainsBane]

5. Of course

How naive of me not to think of that.

[jberryhill]

24. That would be improper and unethical

Legal representation is about the client, not the lawyer.

[BainsBane]

28. but isn't that why lawyers take these cases?

The guy can't have money to hire lawyers. They take these high profile cases for publicity, don't they?

[jberryhill]

29. No

Anyone who takes a case for that reason is a shitty lawyer. Guaranteed.

[geek tragedy]

31. Plenty of shitty lawyers who seek publicity. nt

[jberryhill]

36. Absolutely

I've taken cases for free when they were good cases for getting a decision on an issue in my field to use in other cases. Because sometimes you can end up with bad law if a good case goes undefended. Particularly in a developing area.

There are a lot of motivations that can go into a pro bono representation, but if the lawyer's personal interest is one of them, then it's not going to go well.

My favorites are the folks who say, "I can't pay, but you can get a lot of publicity!", as if I had nothing better to do than polish my ego.

[BainsBane]

43. I suspect

many lawyers are not as ethical as you. For one, many are constantly on TV talking about their clients cases. Sandusky had to have some of the worst lawyers ever.

[jberryhill]

45. There are a LOT more lawyers than the ones on TV

Television, in general, is a freak show.

I'm not "more ethical" than most other attorneys, as the profession is better than most at weeding out the problem creators, and high standards of practice are more common than not. It's why, in general, "attorneys suck, except for mine".

[BainsBane]

47. I didn't mean to cast aspersions

on your profession, or even on your asparagus. Seriously though, if I were to redo my education I'd go to law school.

[Yo_Mama]

4. They are probably going to try to get a judge to slap a gag order on the police and prosecutor

They do not have strong hand in this case.

[BainsBane]

6. They needed to gag their client

before he blabbed to the police. Why do people confess and then plead not guilty? Here I'm talking about real confessions, not coerced ones. If you're going to plead not guilty, keep your mouth shut.

[Yo_Mama]

12. There is no point in a not guilty claim here

There's four living witnesses. And all the people who were around as they hauled those women out of the house.

The only possible strategy is plea bargain for life in prison, and that's what the lawyers are going for. Thus the not guilty plea right now.

If it comes to trial and one of those girls gets on the stand talking about the reconstructive surgery on her face she needed because she was so savagely beaten and the social worker gets on the stand to talk about the little kid who spent the first six years of life imprisoned in a sex dungeon and there is a death penalty charge, this guy is almost certainly gonna fry.

This is so depraved that it's apparent that even the prosecutors are looking for other charges because of the gravity of the crimes involved.

Obviously an insanity plea is not an option.

I know the lawyers are just doing their job, or trying to, but I would have had a hard time not slapping the one who said that if I was nearby. That's a thing I've never done or wanted to do or thought about justifying, but my reaction to that statement is so visceral!

Of course the guy IS a monster.

I happen to think that he should be allowed to plead for LWOP. In a maximum security prison for the rest of his life. No other human life should ever be placed at the mercy of this guy's sadism.

[BainsBane]

16. I agree 100%

Are you a lawyer?

[jberryhill]

30. "Why do people confess and then plead not guilty?"

Because you are confusing a confession with a plea.

Let me give you a hypothetical:

You walk into a room. A dead body lies on the floor and I am holding a smoking gun. I look at you and say, "I shot him dead."

Okay, now:

1. Did I confess to shooting that person dead?

2. Did I commit the crime of murder?

Can you see that those are two different things?

Not entirely relevant to this case, but stating that you did "something" is not equivalent to entering a plea to have committed all of the elements that may constitute a crime with which you have been charged.

A confession may provide evidence of guilt, but does not in all instance prove guilt of any specific charge.

[BainsBane]

35. Okay, but I'm thinking it's less rational

Last edited Thu May 16, 2013, 06:41 PM - Edit history (1)

The guy was in police custody and talked rather than asking for a lawyer. After spilling the beans, he gets a lawyer for arraignment and eventually his current lawyers. They advise him to plead not guilty. They guy is probably wishing he kept his mouth shut.

[jberryhill]

38. They don't "advise him to plead not guilty"

Only the client can make that decision. They advise him on what likely outcomes there can be of entering a plea of guilty at this time, to whatever charge, or holding out and pleading to some other set of charges with potentially different outcomes, and allow him to make an informed choice among those options.

Now, yes, sometimes it does get down to "If I were you, but I'm not you, I would..."

[Warpy]

7. He's not a monster to other men

Only young women get to see that side of him.

Yeah, he's a real nice guy when he's around men.

[BainsBane]

9. I disagree

I think very few men would not see him as a monster, knowing what he has done.

[Warpy]

10. If they didn't know who he was or what he'd done

and just met him for the first time, they'd think he was a really nice guy, maybe introduce their sisters to him.

But nice way to miss the point.

[Yo_Mama]

13. That is a feature of some sociopaths n/t

[BainsBane]

15. The same was true for most people he knew

Even his wife took quite a while to figure out what he as like. Predators have facades they maintain to fool people and lure their victims.

[Summer Hathaway]

19. BB did not miss your point, as stated, at all

You said: "He's not a monster to other men."

BB responded to what you yourself said - which included nothing about "if they didn't know who he was or what he'd done ..."

Ever consider that the one missing the point here is you?

[BainsBane]

20. The difference is

When I realized I misunderstood, I addressed what she meant, whereas you are determined to nit pick rather than have a discussion. People write quickly online and don't always explain themselves perfectly clearly. The point is to engage with others in conversation, not to hold them to what you THOUGHT they meant just so you can pick a fight.

[Summer Hathaway]

21. I have this odd tendency

to think that when someone says something, they mean what they say.

I should not have to look for what they really meant to say, rather than take them at their word. And then decide to respond to what I have now interpreted them as having said, even though they didn't.

Words have meaning.

[Summer Hathaway]

11. "He's not a monster to other men."

"Only young women get to see that side of him."

Are you seriously insinuating that "other men" are incapable of being disgusted by this entire episode?

[Warpy]

17. My, aren't we eager to be offended!

Try reading it again. Carefully.

Thank you.

[Summer Hathaway]

18. I read it several times

before responding to it.

If there is another meaning to what you said, I'm more than happy to hear it.

[etherealtruth]

25. obviously, I can't speak for the poster, but ...

I think, if you read it (or think about it this way): He did not act monstrously to men (or he concealed his monstrous side from men ... only directing his depravity toward young women and carefully concealing it from men) .... the post makes sense and is not offensive.

[Summer Hathaway]

42. Thanks for the clarification!

NOW I understand what was meant.

My initial 'take' was that other men didn't see him as a monster, because they don't perceive his crimes as heinous, or were willfully looking the other way.

Proof positive that I spent waaay too much time on a few man-bashing threads yesterday and, as a result, thought that this was just another one of those "all men think/act alike" posts.

[leftynyc]

32. Can't speak for the poster

but I had no trouble at all understanding his/her meaning. Perhaps the problem is you.

[leftynyc]

32. Self delete for duplication

[Summer Hathaway]

8. Defense lawyers

like everyone else in any profession, have to fight fire with fire.

If the media publicity is painting your client as a monster, you have to use that same media to soften your client's image - or better yet, accuse the media itself of being unfair.

If FaceBook pages spring up decrying your client as a monster, you set up a FaceBook page that shows what a great guy your client is.

It's par for the course - they are doing their jobs. And the publicity the lawyers garner for themselves by all of this doesn't exactly curb their enthusiasm for getting their own names and faces out there for all to see.

[Cha]

14. Ariel Castro had this whole "nice" persona side.

He kept his Monster side buried in the basement with his captives.

[pnwmom]

22. I suspect the attorney is trying to help him avoid the death penalty

and thinks that this will help.

I guess we'll see the strategy soon enough.

[jberryhill]

23. I'm not fond of lawyers who go on TV, period

Maybe there is something I don't understand, but my rule of thumb has always been that if your lawyer is on TV talking about your case, then fire your lawyer.

[geek tragedy]

34. public figures like DSK or Kobe Bryant who hope to have a future

in public life.

[BainsBane]

44. That's a good point

because it's then partly a PR function. Who is DSK?

[geek tragedy]

46. Dominique Strauss Kahn. nt

[BainsBane]

48. OK, thanks.

[riqster]

26. We have seen this before.

"If the facts are on your side, bang away with the facts. If the facts are not on your side, bang away at the table."

Those schmucks don't have much to work with.

[davidpdx]

27. I agree with what others have said, it is all PR

I saw the interview as well and it is manipulative.

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

37. If I heard it right on the radio. One of the lawyers mentioned something about the other side of

the story coming out at some point. Yeah poor guy, those wretched girls/women really screwed him up.

[Bluenorthwest]

39. You don't provide quotes and I didn't see them on the news but your OP could be distilled to this:

'I know he deserve a defense but I still want to criticize the attorney who provides that.'
To me the defense of the worst criminals is a part of our system that is important not only for the accused but to all who are accused or could be accused of anything, rightfully or wrongfully.
They are attempting to prevent the execution of their client. That is their job. You seem to desire that they provide a sham defense, winking and nodding about their client's guilt as they go so as not to offend the all important television spectators...
I'll try to find this presser online and watch it, your reporting lacks quotations and cites, so it does not really convey anything other than your inferences. I as an ethical person can not judge these attorneys based on your reworded retelling of what you say they said.

[Buns_of_Fire]

40. Everyone who sees these interviews is a potential juror.

I'm not anywhere around Cleveland, but I know that changes of venue are not uncommon in cases like this.

As much as I'd like to see the key thrown away on this rotter, I know the defense attorneys are just doing their job. I'd expect the same if I were the one in jeopardy.

[BainsBane]

41. I realize that

I don't think this helps, however. The lawyers also need credibility.