The Truth about the Anti-Wind Movement: A Tiny, Paranoid, Disinformed, Koch-Funded Fringe

[Junkdrawer]

I’ve pointed out in the past that efforts to slow down the adoption of Renewable Energy are coordinated and enabled by Koch and Fossil Funded groups like Americans for Prosperity. They rely on the same media manipulation that has given us everything from Weapons of Mass Destruction to the “Romney Landslide”, to Climate denial, to Kenyan birth certificates – and, they’ve even succeeded to some degree in poisoning the mainstream media dialogue.

But all lies must all eventually crash on the rocks of reality. Despite a nationwide windbagger mobilization and disinformation campaign that drew far more attention than the issue deserved, on tuesday, Massachusetts voters who live near wind turbines gave resounding approval to keeping them in operation.

.....

I’ve pointed out that in Europe, as in America, people that live close to and know wind turbines best support them overwhelmingly. A recent poll in Iowa, the state which gets almost 25 percent of its electricity from wind, gave 81 percent support to more wind power. Efforts to blame all manner of vapors, demonic possession, bad juju, and even herpes, on wind turbines – continue to be trumped by pesky reality.

.....

http://climatecrocks.com/2013/05/22/the-truth-about-the-anti-wind-movement-a-tiny-paranoid-disinformed-koch-funded-fringe/

I'd like to console those here who are worked HARD to earn a Climate 'Crock of the Week', but missed. You were this *holds fingers 1/4 apart* close.

But I'm SURE with more work and determination, your name, too, can be up in neon for posterity. Those Koch Brothers are TOUGH competition.

[Daemonaquila]

1. Actually, a lot of anti-wind voices are NOT nuts.

Wind power makes sense in theory, but the massive wind farms we're putting up are not the way to go. We're killing huge numbers of migratory birds and bats, and it's absolutely unnecessary. Also, there is a lot of transmission loss from generators hundreds of miles away from the customers.

Meanwhile other countries (France at the forefront) are doing micropower generation with local, vertical wind turbines, and are building larger-scale vertical turbines as well. But that isn't as much fun here if big energy companies can't take advantage of government money to build giant farms they control.

The devil is all in the details.

[Junkdrawer]

2. "Why Coal and Nuclear Plants Kill Far More Birds than Wind Power"

Among the big lies that windbaggers like to spread about wind energy, there are 2 that come up a lot.

One is that wind turbines kill a lot of birds, relative to other human activities.

The other is that windbaggers give a damn about birds.



http://climatecrocks.com/2013/05/20/why-coal-and-nuclear-plants-kill-far-more-birds-than-wind-power/

I'm sure you can provide links (in proportion to the problem) to where YOU have railed against coal and nuclear for their "killing huge numbers of migratory birds and bats".

[LisaLynne]

3. I say we give all feral cats homes and get rid of windows.

You're welcome.

[FreeState]

4. +1! n/t

[winter is coming]

5. Wouldn't that leave us with a feral window problem?

[LisaLynne]

7. No, we'd just have to start using Macs. nt

[winter is coming]

10. LOL, I said "feral window", not "fear all Windows".

[Electric Monk]

6. Actually, there are existing technologies to make windows much safer for avian traffic

eg

A German design company called ORNILUX has developed a new Bird Protection Glass which is coated with an UltraViolet reflective grid that gleams bright to birds however it’s transparent to the naked human eye.

These replacement windows, called Mikado, feature a criss-cross patten that resembles a vast spiderweb stretching across the window and it’s far less visible to the human eye than those types of replacement window currently on the market. ORNILUX is currently working with various American groups included the Audobon Society and American Bird Conservancy to raise awareness among businesses and homeowners all over the U.S.

(snip)

Per a recent study (one cites in the New York Times) ORNILUX performed a test on this new protective glass and showed that over 3/4 of the birds were able to avoid the glass. Far higher than standard glass windows where nearly every bird had a collision. Besides providing safety to local wildlife, these replacement windows offer more benefit to homeowners in that they are produced with either low-e coating or a solar protective coating to improve efficiency and “green up” your home.

more
http://www.stcloudgeneralcontractor.com/st-cloud-home-improvement/st-cloud-home-improvement-are-your-windows-bird-proof/

more still
http://www.humanesociety.org/animals/resources/tips/bird_safe_windows.html
http://www.flap.org/residential.php
http://www.huntingtonaudubon.org/window-collisions.asp

[LisaLynne]

8. Hey,that is cool!!

Thanks for the info!

[Junkdrawer]

9. I gave a feral cat a home. She became "basement cat"....

I felt like her jailer more than her owner. She wouldn't stay away, but never really liked me. A really creepy situation.

[Junkdrawer]

11. Keep it up....

and you may, one day, earn the right to rail against wind power.

By my rough calculations, 6,665 posts to go.

That's a LOT of chips and Mountain Dew.

[nadinbrzezinski]

13. So we imagine those take permits

Damn, I guess the bird conservancy is approved by the Koch brothers still

http://www.abcbirds.org/abcprograms/policy/collisions/wind_developments.html

And then there are the take permis in the process.

Oh and your numbers are close to real for raptors only.

Wind power has the potential to be a green, bird-friendly form of power generation, but it can also adversely affect birds. In 2009, the U.S. Fish & Wildlife Service estimated that 440,000 birds per year were killed by U.S. wind turbines and included this figure in the agency’s 2013 budget request to Congress. But in 2012, the agency changed how it describes the estimate and now says it maintains no official number. More recently, researcher K. Shawn Smallwood, well-known for his work at Altamont Pass, has estimated 573,000 bird fatalities/year (including 83,000 raptor fatalities) from wind turbines in the United States in 2012.

[winter is coming]

22. Even if Smallwood's figures are correct, that would still represent only 14% of the fatality

associated with communication towers, 2.4% of the mortality associated with fossil fuel plants and .5% of the mortality attributed to feral cats. Sounds like replacing fossil fuel plants with wind turbines could be a net win for birds.

[mainer]

25. Meanwhile cats kill 500 MILLION birds a year

And all you can talk about are the HALF a million killed by wind turbines?

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/03/21/science/21birds.html?_r=0

[Junkdrawer]

29. Our side checks the wall multiple places for weaknesses...they do the same.

Which talking points fly, which get thrown back in their teeth.

Can you imagine, CAN YOU IMAGINE, how laughable anti-nuclear activists would look if their chief talking point was "Nuclear Energy Kills Birds"?

[nadinbrzezinski]

36. Well, most of the birds killed by cats are not protected species

But you go on.

[MineralMan]

39. Well, in California, all songbirds are protected.

Cats kill birds indiscriminately. Birds, of whatever variety, are seen as food by cats. Birds, of most species, are prey animals, eaten by many other animals.

Wind turbines kill relatively few birds, compared to all other human endeavors. Bird kills are among the worst arguments against wind power, since the numbers do not support the issue.

Now, since I'm quite certain you are ignoring my posts, this information was provided for all those DUers who are not ignoring me.

[Sheepshank]

42. I dare you to suggest getting rid of cell towers.

We could easily use orbiting satellites for communications, instead of killing miliions upon millions of birds with towers.

[nadinbrzezinski]

12. Yup, but I expect the attacks

And then the innocent me, nah.

We also have blade less systems coming up that also depend on distributive systems. Some folks must be in the pockets of large centralized utilities.

[Apophis]

17. I live near the largest wind farm in MN...

and you know how many raptors died last year due to the blades? One.

What else you got?

[nadinbrzezinski]

21. You go argue with the bird conservancy

And the fact that take permits are part of the permitting process.

By the way...locally they got photos of more than one...in one facility only.

[mainer]

26. Bird conservancy supports wind energy

The American Bird Conservancy estimates that up to 500 million birds are killed each year by cats — about half by pets and half by feral felines. “I hope we can now stop minimizing and trivializing the impacts that outdoor cats have on the environment and start addressing the serious problem of cat predation,” said Darin Schroeder, the group’s vice president for conservation advocacy.

By contrast, 440,000 birds are killed by wind turbines each year, according to the United States Fish and Wildlife Service, although that number is expected to exceed one million by 2030 as the number of wind farms grows to meet increased demand.

The American Bird Conservancy generally supports the development of wind energy, but it argues that wind farms should be “bird smart” — for example, positioned so that they do not interfere with major migration paths or disturb breeding grounds, with their power lines buried to prevent collisions.

[nadinbrzezinski]

37. They also support the kind of technology the AWEA opposes

And the kinds of rules the trade group opposes.

But you go on

[MineralMan]

40. Facts are not relevant to those who are fighting against

wind power. They are simply ignored. So it is with opposition to many things.

[badtoworse]

14. Wind has its issues too

If it so wonderful, why do some communities and countries require setbacks of 1,000 meters or more form property lines? Noise, flicker and reduced property values are the answer. Some communities might welcome it but others have been split apart when wind turbines have severe impacts on neighbors who aren't receiving royalty payments as the landowners that are hosting the turbines are. The welcome mat is not out for wind everywhere by a long shot.

Avian and bat impacts are another issue with wind. The US Fish & Wildlife Service estimates that wind kills up to a half million birds each year. The fact that other technologies also impact birds is irrelevant and sounds like the "but Billy did it too" argument. Dead wildlife is dead wildlife.

As a generating technology, wind isn't really that great. Wind turbines require maintenance, just like any other technology, but the maintenance has to be done in a tiny nacelle that is sitting on top of a tower that can be as high as 120 meters. Replacing a broken gearbox or a cracked turbine blade requires a large crane that can cost about $250,000 to rent. Blades have been known to fly off the hub in a runaway situation and fires in the nacelle can occur as well.

The electricity from wind is not cheap and it can't be controlled. Without production tax credits, wind can't compete with electricity produced by gas fired combined cycle (which can be controlled and matched to load). The inability to control wind energy is problematic if there is too much of it on the grid. System operators cannot control the electricity demand on the grid, so they keep it stable by continuously adjusting the output of the generation to match the demand. That is not possible with wind, so you need to have combustion turbines on line to provide that stability and provide "spinning reserve" for the times when wind speeds drop.

I'm sorry to shit in the punchbowl, but wind isn't all it's cracked up to be. I'm not a Koch apologist and I'm not anti-wind. I do have 30 years experience in the electric power business and I've actually led the development of wind projects in Texas. As such, I'm giving you an informed, objective opinion. Personally, I think distributed solar is a much better technology, especially if battery storage becomes cost effective.

[Junkdrawer]

15. "Avian and bat impacts are another issue with wind."

Next....

[badtoworse]

33. Is that the argument you'll use to get PTC's extended?

Absent significant changes in costs, wind development will stop when they expire at the end of this year.

[Junkdrawer]

34. I gave up feeding trolls for Lent. Felt so good...

I decided to make it a permanent part of my diet.

Goodbye.

[badtoworse]

35. I should give up trying to engage people who post about things of which they are ignorant

[Ikonoklast]

43. You have a vested interest in the status quo.

[badtoworse]

44. I do? How so?

Do you know my background and what I do for a living? I've spent 30 years in the electric power business and I've worked with every technology except coal and nuclear. I have an informed opinion that is based on personal experience, which is more than most people who post here about energy issues can say.

For the last three years, I've been advising equity investors about investing in energy infrastructure and I'm well paid for that. We are very open to investing in renewable energy, including wind, and regularly look at opportunites to do so. I've personally led the development of about 250 MW of wind projects on the Texas Gulf Coast. In 2010, I led the effort to bid on a 735 MW portfolio of wind assets that was up for sale in an auction process. We submitted an attractive offer, but were not the winner. I'm not anti-wind, but I am realistic - like every other generating technology, wind has environmental impacts, O&M considerations and cost issues. I point those out and I'm a troll - that says more about the OP of this thread than it does about me.

[reformist2]

16. You mean it *doesn't* cause cancer, tornadoes, or restless leg syndrome??

[Junkdrawer]

19. Tornadoes remains controversial....

That is still hotly debated by people of good will.

Some say "Bullshit", others say "Are you out of your freaking mind?"

I'm sitting on the fence.

[nadinbrzezinski]

20. Likely the local cluster is caused by Round Up

But he'll, what can I say? Some folks will believe anything the industry tells them.

By the way, we all know Round Up is everywhere in the Environment. Sadly I cannot say that 100% aince well...shit that's how public health research works.

[MineralMan]

41. How is that "likely?" Where is your information?

Where are the links to that information? Let's see them, or you have nothing but supposition.

[pintobean]

18. You're likely to earn the "Iggy of the Moment"

For speaking truth to wind woo.



K&R

[AverageJoe90]

23. Peter Sinclair, is, as usual, right on the money. Green energy is COMING. =)

I’ve pointed out in the past that efforts to slow down the adoption of Renewable Energy are coordinated and enabled by Koch and Fossil Funded groups like Americans for Prosperity. They rely on the same media manipulation that has given us everything from Weapons of Mass Destruction to the “Romney Landslide”, to Climate denial, to Kenyan birth certificates – and, they’ve even succeeded to some degree in poisoning the mainstream media dialogue.

(I'd like to point out that they've also given us climate doomerism and sensationalist fearmongering, too, but that's another story.

I’ve pointed out that in Europe, as in America, people that live close to and know wind turbines best support them overwhelmingly. A recent poll in Iowa, the state which gets almost 25 percent of its electricity from wind, gave 81 percent support to more wind power. Efforts to blame all manner of vapors, demonic possession, bad juju, and even herpes, on wind turbines – continue to be trumped by pesky reality.

It seems that many of these idiots also keep telling us that biofuels are somehow starving third-world kids, too, apparently, and don't get me started on the deniers' attacks on green energy in general, either(unfortunately, they're not only ones; some of the more extreme doomsters have, too, including some right here on this very website).

(P.S., I do apologize for being cynical, fellas, but it just bothers me that for all their screaming, 've noticed that at least many of the doomers have adopted some positions quite similar when it pertains to energy topics, even if for entirely different reasons.)

Contrary to the naive cries of doomers, and most skeptics(pro or anti-AGW), and the fervent wishes of deniers, especially oil industry shills, green energy's heyday is coming, and the tipping point is going to come a LOT sooner than many people thought(after all, at the turn of the previous century, nobody thought automobiles would ever become a permanent replacement for the horse & buggy....and yet, just 10 years later, somebody at the Ford company invented modern mass-production techniques....and a decade after that, the horse & buggy was pretty much a thing of the past!).

May it be so.

[Junkdrawer]

24. Peter posted this May 7th: Climate Change: Not Environmental, Existential.

http://climatecrocks.com/2013/05/07/climate-change-not-environmental-existential/

Not Peter's direct work, but since he posted it on his blog, I feel it's safe to assume it's a point he doesn't disagree with.

[Junkdrawer]

38. Ever READ much Vonnegut?

How about "Mother Night"?

Not the Wiki, not the movie, the BOOK.

[AverageJoe90]

46. I always thought he was a good author, but WTF does that have to do with this subject? n/t

[Laelth]

27. Laughable propaganda, but I fully support your right to spread it. n/t

-Laelth

[Democracyinkind]

28. IMO, right back at you.

[Junkdrawer]

31. Amen...

It's like their side thinks our side DOESN'T understand the problem Wind Power is addressing.

See Post #24

[madrchsod]

30. i know someone who worked for over one year against wind power.

he started after attending a shadow groups free film about the evils of wind power. for over a year he wrote 'letters to the editor' and was a pain in the ass at the county board meetings trying to prove wind turbines were satan`s creation.

the turbines were approved

[Junkdrawer]

32. People are smarter than many people seem to realize...

Hell, dogs are smarter than many seem to realize.

[NCTraveler]

45. Windbaggers. nt.