My daughter has just finished her abstinence-only sex ed at school

[gollygee]

What a useless waste of tax dollars that was.

She said they never told her what she was supposed to abstain from. They're supposed to write down and submit questions, so she wrote down, "What should we be abstaining from" and the teacher just answered "risky behavior." No details.

I asked if they talked about sexually transmitted diseases and how to avoid them, and she said yes, they avoid them by abstaining from risky behavior. No details.

I asked if they told her what a condom is. She said, "What's a condom?"

So now my daughter knows what a condom is but the other kids in her school don't, after taking sex ed. They of course don't call it sex ed because that uses the word "sex." They call it "reproductive health."

She learned so much less than I learned in the late 70s.

[enough]

1. Where are you located? Is this a public school? (nt)

[gollygee]

3. Michigan, and yes. n/t

[Occulus]

12. Those of us from MI can probably guess what general area, too

I'll have to ask my sister. She's a teacher in one of the smaller systems in the Lower Pen., so maybe she knows about the incursion of this tripe into our state...

Does the law mandate this?

[gollygee]

14. You'd probably guess right

and I don't know if the law mandates it. I assumed more liberal school districts had proper sex ed.

[knitter4democracy]

126. Nope. We're hamstrung on what we can teach.

I'm the bad English teacher who tells the high schoolers not to engage in sex but, if they do, to wrap it up. We get crap curricula like this, and they wonder why the teen pregnancy rate is up in many areas of the state.

They have to do abstinence teaching for federal dollars. It's ridiculous.

[enough]

122. I would have expected this from some "Christian Academy," not a public school.

But I guess I shouldn't be surprised, being from PA, where we're heading in the same direction. What amazes me is that this is an extreme regression from where public school was back when I was in school in a rural area of PA in the 1950's. So much for what we thought was going to be progress.

Lucky for your daughter, she has you for a parent, but I wonder what effect this has on the majority of kids. Do they take it seriously, or does it just make them think adults are clueless and hypocritical?

[FourScore]

124. Speaking of location -- this is how Europe teaches it...

GREAT MOVIE!!! (The trailer doesn't really do it justice.)

http://letstalkaboutsexthefilm.com/

[lunasun]

129. drx netflix and hulu will check it out Thanks

[liberal N proud]

2. It stands to reason they wouldn't talk about condoms because it is about abstinence

As if that is going to work.

When they mention "risky behavior" the standard follow up question should be like climbing a tree or some other action that has risks.

These people who teach this shit are afraid of it.

[eShirl]

4. class title should be Not Talking About What We're Not Talking About

[gollygee]

5. The Title of This Class is a Secret n/t

[intheflow]

60. Abstaining From The Mystery. n/t

[Arugula Latte]

136. Cue Elvis (Costello):

Why don't you tell me about the mystery dance
I wanna know about the mystery dance
Why don't you show me
'Cause I've tried and I've tried, and I'm still mystified
I can't do it anymore and I'm not satisfied

[markbark]

147. That song about sums it up

I remember when the lights went out
and I was tryin' to make it look like it was never in doubt.
She thought that I knew, and I thought that she,
Both of us were willing, but we didn't know how to do it.

[Buzz Clik]

6. What age is your daughter?

[gollygee]

8. 11

This is your typical 5th grade sex ed. When I was in 5th grade, we learned about puberty and birth control.

[Buzz Clik]

70. She's 11 and you never told her what a condom is?

She could enter puberty tomorrow. Time for a chat....

[gollygee]

72. Well I did tell her when she asked

We've talked about a lot of things but obviously hadn't talked about condoms.

I also bought her a book called It's Perfectly Normal that will hopefully get her asking more questions.

[Buzz Clik]

75. well done!

[Art_from_Ark]

123. When I was in 5th grade, we never had a class like that

"abstinence education" or otherwise. The only "class" I ever had in my 12 years of pre-college schooling that ever came close to resembling "sex education" was a half-hour talk given by a coach in high school PE class that basically focused on preventing what was then called "VD".

[SomeGuyInEagan]

131. We did in 6th grade ... mid-70s in an Iowa public school.

Back when team teaching was popular (large classes, two or even three teachers). In our case, we had about 60 kids and two teachers, one male and one female. So the boys were taught by the guy and the girls by the woman in separate rooms.

I remember the condom talk. I also remember how good the guy was in teaching us - no judgments, no advising, straight-ahead instruction and lots of time for questions (anonymous submissions were an option). And though parents had to sign a release for us to get the instruction, I don't recall any parents not signing it and holding their kids out (I think my folks were relieved).

Then again as a part of a required health class in tenth grade (same public school district in Iowa).

[Art_from_Ark]

132. In my 6th grade class,

Last edited Fri May 24, 2013, 12:40 AM - Edit history (2)

which was around the same time as yours, but in Arkansas, it was the boys who did the "teaching" to the other boys. But I was kind of like Little Nemo in Slumberland. I just couldn't believe the whole "birds and bees" thing, I thought those other boys (one in particular) were just trying to see how gullilble I was It wasn't until I was in 9th grade that I got my first real lesson, as the stomach of a 14-year-old classmate started to become noticeably rounder.

"C", I said, "it looks like you're getting bigger".
"Well, that's what happens when you're pregnant!" she snapped.
"Gee, how did that happen?" I asked, with all sincerity.

Everyone in that class looked at me like I had just fallen off the turnip truck

[Heidi]

137. Oklahoma, mid 1970s: Boys in the gym, girls in the cafeteria.

I don't know what the boys were told, but we girls watched a film and were treated to nuggets of obvious wisdom like how menstruation is normal and it's okay to shower during one's period. I'd had a pretty thorough education at home about all this stuff, so it was a snoozefest for me, but it was clear that this was the first time some of my friends had heard any information at all on the topic.

[Art_from_Ark]

138. Was that in junior high?

I think girls were given a class like that in my junior high, but if they had anything like that for boys, I must have been absent on that day. The only one I remember was 10th grade, with Coach L trying his hardest to keep a straight face during those 30 minutes.

[Heidi]

139. I think it was sixth grade.

Far too late, in my opinion, for that kind of talk, but maybe not, since it was the first time some of my peers had heard the information, as general and "polite" as it was. Maybe better late than never?

The stupidest thing about it was this: While I don't know for sure what the boys were told, VD most certainly was one of their topics because it immediately became the new "cooties" -- and many of the girls had no idea what VD was because it wasn't part of the girls' video and talk. Very weird.

[Art_from_Ark]

140. I might have had an inkling about what VD was

I think they had some public service announcements about that on TV back then, but I was really sheltered and didn't pay much attention to them. No mention of that sort of thing that I remember in junior high, certainly not in elementary school.

[Heidi]

141. Most of the kids in our town were Church of Christ or Southern Baptist,

with a few pentecostals. That's a whole other kind of sheltered, I think.

Good to see you, A_f_A! <-- No cooties, I promise.

[Art_from_Ark]

142. I always thought that "cooties" was just baby talk for "cuties"

Since boys at my elementary school usually didn't want to be called "cute", or even worse, "cutie" they tried to avoid "cooties". I didn't care one way or the other in my early elementary days, and actually preferred the company of girls, since they were generally less aggressive. In 6th grade, however, I intentionally blew a chance to appear on TV because I didn't want my mom and grandmother to see me and say "Oh, look how CUTE he is!"

By the way, thanks for the virtual hug . One of these days, I might get one in real life again

[pnwmom]

144. All we learned about was puberty. But that was a long time ago. n/t

[gollygee]

7. Oh and another weird thing is that they DID tell her not to share needles

to avoid HIV.

Which is she more likely to do in her life? Have sex or shoot up drugs?

Why can they tell her not to share needles, but not about condoms?

[pangaia]

13. Because these people have a very deep seated

psychological disturbance about that which they can not mention. So they pass it on to children.
Sad, reallyt sad. and very, very dangerous.

[snappyturtle]

20. Having been a sex education teacher in the seventies, a few

points come to mind. Sex ed, or whatever districcts call it today, is
difficult because of what teachers are given, by the state and locally,
as guidelines. The adults are indecisive because of parents. Believe
me there are parents who are not in agreement that schools should
teach sex at all. So...what we get are washed down anatomy lessons
and the students are left with, 'there you have it, figure it out'. imho

Hint: Religion doesn't seem to have problems with needles, condoms,
othoh, some do. Where does that leave the teacher? You're right if
I've taken your concerns correctly that sex ed is pretty useless.

[gollygee]

23. Yeah, they might as well do nothing

and spend the class hours teaching something they can talk about.

[snappyturtle]

30. Yes. I think if classes taught preventative disease measures

topics like sexually transmitted practices could be coupled
with how our diets effect diabetes, e.g. Maybe it would be
more acceptable to parents. I don't know what the answer
is but I do know that kids aren't given the info they need
in school.

In the school district I taught in we had classes for the
pregnant girls! There was great concern AFTER girls
became pregnant and their health and the care of their
soon-to-be babies. Go figure. A registered nurse/teacher
taught those classes.

[thesquanderer]

32. Don't share needles? If anything should be in the "abstain" category...

...it's shooting drugs.

How bizarre. THAT's what they think needs a "but just in case you do..." qualifier.

Don't shoot drugs... but if you do, at least don't share the needle. But don't have sex, period. What kind of whacky message is that?

[gollygee]

33. Thank you!

Right!

[progressoid]

103. Oh sure, that makes sense.

Every one knows that part of "reproductive health" is shooting up before, during and sometimes after sex.

[Cirque du So-What]

9. 'Risky behavior?'

Does that mean avoiding stepping in puddles that may be deeper than they appear, soaking your sneakers? How in pluperfect hell can these people pass along anything resembling information or knowledge if they can't even bring themselves to say the word 'sex?'

[Ilsa]

119. Uh, that's defined as behavior involving risk.

Of course it's only logical for them to define something using only those words, right?

[awoke_in_2003]

130. I avoid STDs...

by not parachuting.

[southernyankeebelle]

10. Well by the time my kid reached the age of 15 I made sure they understood about sex. I am

not waiting for the school to teach my child because to many schools (thanks to the parents who think little Sue and Jimmy don't have sex) won't teach them everything they need to know. Now don't get me wrong I sure don't want my kid coming home pregnant but our children need to be well informed.

[CTyankee]

17. Heh, I had a copy of "Our Bodies, Ourselves" just "accidentally" lying around...

I knew there were things my kids did NOT want to discuss with me and that was OK. But they still needed information they could look up privately. This was before we all had PC's.

The copy of that book was well worn in no time...

[Arkansas Granny]

47. My kids entered puberty when AIDS first made the news. I talked to the kids, gave them the reading

material and left condoms in the bathroom cabinet. I wanted them to have the information and the means to protect themselves.

[TM99]

77. I was one of those kids in that generation.

AIDS was terrifying to myself and my parents. No one knew at first what it was or what to expect. We didn't even know if condoms would protect from it.

They handled it very well. I was given all the information I needed. My grandfather bought me a Playboy subscription telling me that masturbation was A-OK. Sex with others has consequences. Sex with yourself never does. My father always made sure I had condoms. Now I didn't have sex for the first time till I was a senior in high school, but I was prepared gratefully for all that was to come.

As clinical psychologist with sexology training, I offer sexual education to family's, individuals, and children. We must talk about sex as it is one of the most foundational aspects of our human existence. It brings such beautiful and joy, and it can cause such pain and misery as well.

[Ednahilda]

54. Precisely what I did.

Since I had all boys, I figured that there were things that young teen-aged boys did not want to discuss with Mom, so I found a really good, straightforward book about sex written for adolescents in a question-and-answer format and I left it on the book shelf in a prominent place. Then, when the subject came up, either a question from them or perhaps something we heard on the radio, I answered or commented in as much of a matter-of-fact way as I could. Seems to have worked well: nobody has an STD, nobody's girlfriends ever got pregnant, everyone seems well-adjusted.

I wish I could remember the name of the book.

[pipi_k]

66. This is what I got to read

When I was a teenager





It was...quaint. But not very helpful, I'm afraid.

[CTyankee]

68. better than nothing, which is what I got...

[KittyWampus]

84. Me too. I learned about sex by doing it.

[CTyankee]

86. my poor sister in law had it worse. Her first period was when she was only 9 years old and

her stepmother decided not to let the doctor tell her it was OK. My s.i.l. says she thought she was dying...

[pipi_k]

107. Actually...

it may as well have been nothing, to tell the truth.

It was originally written in 1957. As I recall, it had more to do with social interaction and little to nothing on the actual mechanics of human sexuality.

One part I still remember all these years later had to do with what a girl should say if a boy she's with is getting a little too free with his hands...

The suggestion was that she should bat her eyes at him and declare, "Oh, you are too fast for me!"

Yech.

In a way, the attitude back then was no better than the "abstinence only" crap they're still trying to teach today.

[southernyankeebelle]

108. My parents didn't share the sex talk. I was cluess. My parents had children late

in life. I was 22 and my youngest sister was 11 yrs old and my brother was 4 when our dad died. But I remember telling my mother that it was time to sit down with my sister and give her the talk she and dad didn't give us. So we did that when she was 13 yrs old. We told her everything and asked if she had any questions. She didn't and that was it. Mom told her that she wanted her to know what sex was about and she didn't want her going around having sex especially at that age.

[grantcart]

116. Now if you only used illustrations from Our Bodies, Ourselves then

I would have a chance at the Friday Afternoon Challenge.

[CTyankee]

117. Uh oh, that book will not get you very far for tomorrow's Challenge, grant!

maybe some of the past ones, but not this one...sorry...please come visit anyway...

[Berlin Expat]

78. I knew all about

'it' by the time I was six.

My mother was from Sweden. She gave me "the talk" when I was five years old. And had me read about sex/pregnancy/STD's in medical encyclopedias.

I knew what a condom was, what it was for, and how it was used before I hit puberty. I also knew about abortion, STD prevention, and what to do if I got a young lady pregnant - marry her, or stand by her while she had the kid and gave it up for adoption, or I paid for a pregnancy termination. Alternatively, I was told it was my responsibility to pay for birth control pills if that route was decided on, but that contraceptives weren't 100% effective.

Abstinence never even entered the discussion.

[southernyankeebelle]

105. Wish america could be that progressive.

[Javaman]

11. "risky behavior"

So I guess base jumping is a no no.

[justiceischeap]

16. Running with scissors, sniffing glue, all risky behavior.

Nothing to do with sex of course, but risky nonetheless.

[Javaman]

18. I remember back in the early '90's I would say...

"I weep for our future".

and here we are.

[justiceischeap]

22. I remember my sex ed classes (I had two of them)

One in Independence, MO in 5th grade, I think, and the other in 8th grade in PA. The first, we were separated by gender and we saw the female reproductive system and they told us how babies were made. Parents had to sign a permission slip for me to attend. In 8th grade, it was more of the same but they didn't separate us and we had a male teacher, the wrestling coach, give the little pep talk. I couldn't imagine not being taught about the reproductive system and how it worked. It's science for goodness sake.

I think they should continue to handle it the way they did when I was in 5th grade, if the parents don't want their kids to be taught sex education, then they indicate on a permission slip they should be taught abstinence only. Then the kids with parents who aren't afraid of science and education, can have their children educated both at home and in school.

[gollygee]

26. I had to sign a permission slip for what little she was taught

At first, when I got a bunch of email warnings and a permission slip, I thought it was possible that they'd actually be taught something.

When one of the emails said that the curriculum was read and approved by a group of people including teachers, parents, and the church community, I started to worry.

[davidpdx]

49. I'm curious what, if any consequence would there had been if you had refused?

Obviously it was easier to sign it and just let her go rather than making a fuss about it. Also were there any parents you know of that refused? It's just interesting to know a bit about the situation.

I guess if you wanted to be a smartass you could have sent your daughter to school with a condom and had her ask the teacher what it was. Though I'm sure she would have gotten suspended for it.

[gollygee]

51. My daughter said some kids' parents didn't sign it

and wanted their kids to sit out of the class, but those were parents too conservative for even what little was taught. I don't get that. If they're going to sit out anyway, why not let the rest of the kids get a real education.

[davidpdx]

55. So they were complaining that abstinence was being taught?

No, I don't get that too. I would have thought some parents would have objected to the abstinence lecture based purely on the fact that it is stupid. It sounds like the whole thing was a charade.

[gollygee]

58. It sounds like some parents hear "reproductive health"

and don't trust that they'll be OK with it no matter what so they just knee-jerk and keep their kids out without looking into it.

[davidpdx]

63. Maybe they think they can keep their kids in the 12th century

and put chastity belts on them. They are fools for thinking that.

[hootinholler]

64. "the church community" ?!?!??

What on earth is "the church community" doing anywhere near curriculum?

Makes one wonder if they managed to get stuff removed, like what is a penis.

[knitter4democracy]

128. That's state law. Silly, isn't it?

Frackin' MI GOP.

[Javaman]

28. that level of understanding and education has vanished for the most part

in this nation via suppression from the right wing and religious uptight hair on fire nuts.

sex ed was mandatory in my school. We got it every year starting in 7th grade through 12th.

And in my community college, one couldn't graduate unless you completed "human relations" requirement.

that's all gone now.

I asked a buddy of mine a few years back if they still taught it. (he had grade aged kids).

Nope. right wing nuts sweep the school board elections and did away with it all.

this is in Nassau County Long Island. (very repuke)

[justiceischeap]

31. Surprisingly, when I lived in MO, I had been better educated

They repeated a lot of what I already had been taught when I moved to PA in 8th grade. It's sad the American Taliban has so much influence over education in this country. Not only aren't kids learning about human reproduction (and I'm not just referencing sex here), but they aren't learning much in the way of true science or history either. They're creating a bunch of uninformed kids that will turn into uninformed adults that'll be easier to mold into the image they want them to be... sorta like God.

[Javaman]

35. Speaking of the American Taliban...

Here is a great article from Salon. I think this is a piece of the puzzle regarding sex ed and what the future holds.

Home-schooled and illiterate

The religious right calls it the "responsible" choice, but for some kids it means isolation with little education

http://www.salon.com/2012/03/15/homeschooled_and_illiterate/

(Many of these kids are now adults, some have gotten a clue and have rejected the BS passed off by the religious right wing, however others are continuing to carry the torch of stupidity)

[justiceischeap]

40. I still remember that scene from the documentary Jesus Camp

where the home-schooled kids prayed and pledged allegiance to GWB. Scary shit. And you and the article are correct, some of these kids will grow into adults that pass this on to their kids.

[Javaman]

48. That was one frightening and enlightening movie

prior to seeing it, I had a feeling that there were people like this but to the extent at which it was happening, that really set me back on my heels.

There is a great podcast I listen to, it's called "hardcore history" with Dan Carlin. His most recent episode dealt with the reformation and Martin Luther. But what was the highlight of the episode was this group of zealots that splintered off of Lutheran movement were the Anabaptists. Much of the kind of fire and brimstone insanity that is being preached today, can be directly compared and related to what the Anabaptists were screaming about.

If allowed, I fully believe that todays American Taliban would quickly slide into the very same mentality that the Anabaptists displayed.

Scary stuff.

[hootinholler]

69. Google Rushdooney sometime

Scary stuff, and laid the foundation for The Brotherhood who do the Presidential Prayer Breakfast.

[Javaman]

74. Funny you bring that up...

Someone I work with mentioned this guy just yesterday, I copied and pasted his wiki to read later.

From the quick brief he appears to be of that crazy ass mentality.

[pangaia]

15. risky behavior--like teaching abstinance only.

That's sounds pretty risky to me.
Brought to you by your local Fascist Theocratic Party. OR- The American Taliban.

[no_hypocrisy]

19. My first day of sex ed in 1974: football coach told mixed gender class that

he knew statistically that half of us were already engaging in sex (i.e., screwing). His goal was to educate us to allow us to avoid unplanned pregnancies and a myriad of sexually transmitted diseases.

Lemme tell you, we got our money's worth with Mr. DePuit. Not only birth control, but failure rates. Not only heterosexual but also gay sex, transvestites, bisexuals, and transsexuals.

And we were required to bring in current events articles every week. My first one was Washington State court determined that a husband could not legally rape his wife.

[gollygee]

29. I don't know if she'll get any sex ed in high school

All I remember getting is the 5th grade talk about puberty and birth control. She got information about puberty, which is useful, but nothing about birth control.

[no_hypocrisy]

41. I decidedly knew more than my parents combined.

Best class I ever took and the easiest "A" ever earned.

[krispos42]

44. :spray:

...that a husband could not legally rape his wife.


Holy shit!

[gollygee]

46. The old definition of rape left a lot to be desired

Rape used to mean only forced intercourse by a man of a woman other than his wife. So it was something only men could do, and it could not happen to men, and if you were married it didn't apply.

[no_hypocrisy]

53. Until 1974, it was legal in all fifty states.

It wasn't until 1993 that it was illegal in ALL FIFTY STATES.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marital_rape#United_States

[krispos42]

85. I'm rather flabbergasted.

I mean... holy shit.


I suppose I shouldn't be surprised, but damn... to see it laid out that way in black-and-white...

[dterrell]

21. secondary virgin

One such "educational" program with which I'm familiar allows girls to become "secondary virgins" which mean that they've admitted to having sex once but promise not to "do it" again out of wedlock. As with so many of these kinds of programs, the presenters are living in the Twilight Zone and assume that their audiences are too.

[justiceischeap]

24. I was watching a TED talk last night

from a photographer and one of her photos depicts women who have their hymen's repaired for religious reasons, so when they marry they'll bleed like the virgins they truly aren't.

[bobclark86]

61. I remember that line...

I knew a girl in college who was one of those. She'd say she was a virgin and start preaching in my statistics class.

Somebody should have told her son about that

[Ikonoklast]

99. I'm fairly certain little Jesus knows mom is a liar.

He is supposed to be God and all.

[FSogol]

25. She completed her abstinence-only sex ed? How do you feel about being a grandparent?

[gollygee]

27. LOL

I hope I've got a while before that

[subject]

125. my sentiments

exactly.

[RC]

34. It must be challenging to teach children on a subject that they must be kept ignorant about.

Dirty, filthy, repulsive sex, that only people that love each other should do, in the dark, under the covers, in the privacy of the bedroom, and only after having a proper church wedding.
Heaven knows, if the kids find out how the parts fit together and what happens when they do, they will most surely try out their new found knowledge as soon as possible after school.

I wonder, was this a mixed class, or did they separate the boys and girls to help tamp down the resulting raging hormones of having both sexes in such close proximity, in the same room, at the same time, while discussing such a delicate subject, to prevent scaring the poor children with too much information? After all, there could be one, or worse yet, more children with a proper understanding of reproduction, because of having extremely radical, liberal parents. Oh, the horror!

[gollygee]

38. She said they separated them for part of it

But just the puberty part.

[cbdo2007]

36. That's fine. You should be the one teaching her anyways.

You are the parent. It isn't up to them to teach her what a condom is, that's your responsibility so it actually worked out very well.

[gollygee]

39. MY kid isn't the problem

because I would tell MY kid. But once upon a time, schools taught sex ed because a lot of parents don't teach anything. That has changed.

[justiceischeap]

42. It's changed because the schools stopped doing it, I think.

Parents that didn't talk with their kids were now put in a position to do so.

On edit:
Not that that makes teaching abstinence only a worthwhile venture. It's the height of stupidity in my opinion.

[gollygee]

43. That's optimistic.

I think it's likely that a lot of parents still don't teach their kids anything, and this is a public health issue as well as a parenting issue.

[justiceischeap]

45. I know, it's odd for me to be so optimistic

and you're probably right. These kids are probably educating themselves by having sex and getting an STD or pregnant. Tough way to learn something.

[Xithras]

104. Lol. You want to know what my brothers "sex talk" with his sons was?

"Your mom said I need to talk to you about sex. The only thing you need to know is that I'll throw your ass out of this house if I find out you're fucking any girls or knock anyone up. You can have sex when you move out." Word for word, that was the entire "talk". Conversations like this one are a hell of a lot more common than you think.

Luckily my nephews knew that their uncle was a bit brighter than their dad. I ended up having "the talk" with all three of my brothers boys myself, and my wife made a point to intervene with his daughters (good thing too...my sister in law is about as mature as her husband).

BTW, I do need to point out that the idiot is actually a step brother...no genetic relation whatsoever (and thank god for that).

[pipi_k]

89. I went through

my whole school years without ever being taught a thing about human sexuality.

Oh, there was 10th grade Biology class, but it was about plants and animals and amoebae and things like that.

But that's it.

My first introduction to human sex ed came when I was about 12 and one of the teenaged sisters of our downstairs neighbor belonged to a community center which put on a presentation for young people. I went with the older sister and watched a film, then came home nearly traumatized.

OMG!!!! My parents did....that????

I had absolutely no idea where babies came from, even at 12, so it was a huge shock.

That was it, though. I don't recall anything about birth control (not that I should have expected it in 1964, now that I think of it).

And so I became a mom at the age of 17, just 3 months after graduating from high school.

[aikoaiko]

37. I used to teach a college course on Human Sexuality

And I was stunned at the base knowledge of students how came from public and private schools. This is southeast Georgia, BTW.

Many of my students are parents themselves and they routinely kept the books out on display for their kids to look through.

[MNBrewer]

50. I think they called it "Health" class in my school system in rural Georgia

I never took it, but it wouldn't have been geared toward me, anyway, being a HoMoSEXual.

That's another topic teachers are verboten from speaking about in many places. *sigh*

[gollygee]

56. Yeah, that's too bad

A friend was telling me that if I check a UCC or UU church, they have classes that go into much more detail, including about homosexuality.

In my perfect world, sex ed would be about the mechanics of sex and how to avoid disease/pregnancy, sexuality including homosexuality, relationships and respect, and the concept of consent.

[marshall]

52. Can't they at least say "Don't let a boy stick his thing in your thing?"

Or don't put his thing in your mouth, or something like that? I suppose they are leaving it up to the parents to fill in the gap, as so many abstinence-only programs do. But that was they way it was in the 50s and 60s. Most parents now don't have the time in this fast paced world to do much more than put food on the table, whether it be frozen, canned, or from a drive through window!

[hobbit709]

57. A few years back my mother was with the AIDS Task Force giving talks at schools.

They had a meeting beforehand with the school board to discuss what could and could not be said.
They told her they couldn't use the word "condom"
My mother asked "Why not?"
She was told that it might give them ideas about having sex.
My mother's response was "Considering that Marion County is Number 1 in the state in the teen pregnancy rate in 14 and under, I'd say they are already HAVING sex"
The school board was not amused.

[meaculpa2011]

59. My wife taught "health ed" in a NYC public school and...

it was just about the same. It wasn't abstinence only, but the restrictions made it nearly impossible to discuss anything.

Student: How can you get infected?
Teacher: Close, unprotected physical contact.
Student: Like wrestling?

I liked it better when we learned on the street corner, in front of the candy store.

BTW: I went to Catholic School in the 60s and had several very graphic and descriptive sex ed classes, one of them taught by a Marist Brother. We always knew when something interesting was going to happen, because he walked slowly to the door and closed it quietly.

[gollygee]

62. Right!

If they can say "unprotected" then they're alluding to condoms, so why not just let them talk about condoms? It's like they're teasing and assuming kids can fill in the gaps, but I don't think most of the kids are going to be able to. Adults know what "unprotected physical conduct" means, and what you're abstaining from when you keep using the word "abstinence", but kids don't unless they've had those conversations somewhere.

[HughBeaumont]

65. Sigh.

I never got "The Film" or "The Class" or "The Talk" from anyone. Nothing. My sex ed at 10, 11 years old was Penthouse Forum, Easy Rider, Swingers, Club and Hustler.

I know, right?

One thing Larry Flynt did assert after he got shot and published a graphic article with his wound photos . . . "A Sexually Repressed Society is a Violent Society" . . . that kind of stuck with me.

It's sad to see that the very fundies Bob Guccione and Larry Flynt railed against in the 1970s seem to have welched their way into our schools to repress everyone. This better not be preparedness for an eventual Adam Sutler/Norsefire admin.

[Ian David]

67. I propose a Free Market solution.

Let's start a business that charges parents $20 a piece to send their children to a privately run sex-ed class, taught by certified instructors.

[Borchkins]

71. It's almost that time for us. . .

My 5th grade son brought home a flyer telling us about his upcoming health class. In liberal Madison I hope it is a real sex ed class. We'll see. In any event, it's time for the talk at our house.

If anyone has any books for boys, please pass on the name(s).

Thanks,
B

[gollygee]

73. I just bought her a book called It's Perfectly Normal

that is for both boys and girls, and really it seems like it's good for them to know what's happening to all kids and not just themselves anyway.

[NewJeffCT]

97. My daughter brought home a pamphlet the other day

as well. The class is coming up after Memorial Day. I haven't really had a chance to look at the pamphlet yet, though it looked like it was more about puberty and how the body changes as you grow up.

I'm hoping there is no abstinence BS in there.

[emmadoggy]

115. I agree with Gollygee.

"It's Perfectly Normal" is an excellent book for boys and girls.

Also for boys: "What's Going on Down There?"

For girls: "The Period Book" and "The Care and Keeping of You".

"It's Perfectly Normal" is mostly about sex and reproduction. The others I mentioned are mostly about puberty and hygiene, but do have some info on sex as well. They are all excellent. I have 11-year-old boy/girl twins and they have all of these books.

[TNNurse]

76. question

Is there any data on the pregnancy rate of girls 11-18 in that school system? The state by state lists I found online are for 15-19, but I am pretty sure that the age needs to be lowered...sad isn't it? In an ideal world parents would do a good job and the schools could focus on other subjects but this world is FAR from ideal in so many ways.

[gollygee]

81. It don't see anything for just our school system

and the numbers do all seem to be for ages 15 to 19.

[HockeyMom]

79. Planned Parenthood came to the school in 2002

to talk to the Seniors (little late?) when my daughter was in a Long Island Public school. Yes, they had mandatory "health courses" through school though the 90s, but PP was a special course. They did require parental permission for the students to speak with PP, but since my daughter had turned 18, she was free to attend of her own accord. She did.

Once while I was at the doctor, there was a teen girl there getting an exam and asking for a script for the Pill. They told her that she needed a parent's permission, which I don't agree with, but she did call her Mom (heard the conversation) and her mother gave permission for her daughter to take the Pill. I have to give kuddos to both the girl, and her mother, to be able to communicate with each other about this. I wonder what these Abstinence Only until Marriage would probably freak out over that mother and daughter.

My older daughter is a lesbian so birth control was never an issue. My younger daughter, when in college, came to me and asked me about which Pill I had used, and what problems I had with them. It was a very long conversation, but something which was even more necessary since I had medical issues which might affect her too. I certainly think if a mother has these kinds of problems, her daughters certainly should discuss them with her.

[Laelth]

80. Lovely. (sarcasm) n/t

-Laelth

[deutsey]

82. My daughter might have actually preferred that kind of sex ed., lol

As it was, she and her twin brother (age 13) were recently in a Unitarian Universalist/United Church of Christ sex ed. program called Our Whole Lives (OWL).

http://www.uua.org/re/owl/

"Our Whole Lives helps participants make informed and responsible decisions about their sexual health and behavior. It equips participants with accurate, age-appropriate information in six subject areas: human development, relationships, personal skills, sexual behavior, sexual health, and society and culture. Grounded in a holistic view of sexuality, Our Whole Lives not only provides facts about anatomy and human development, but also helps participants clarify their values, build interpersonal skills, and understand the spiritual, emotional, and social aspects of sexuality."

While my son liked it, my daughter thought it was TMI. She can be quite the little prude, which is fine by me.

Seriously, even though she found a lot of it "gross," I'm glad she participated and believe that as she grows up what she learned will help her make the right choices.

The middle school they attend also has sex ed. classes, but I don't think they include the values dimension or talk about homosexuality as viable like OWL does.

[nolabear]

83. Apparently they have abstained from doing their job.

Because sex is, you know, ookie.

[AnneD]

87. I teach/have taught ....

sex ed in 5th grade (aka growth and development) and a hygiene class for 6th grade girls.

The abstinence class are a safe cop out for school that have to teach the kids something that; is not on a high stakes test (boy is that ever a misnomer), and something sued happy fundies can't object too.

All of my kids parents had to sign a release before they came in the class. I wish I had a nickle for every 'helpful' suggestion I got or grilling I got from parents over this. I always offered to screen the video with the parents but no one ever showed up.

I always told parents that I had a question and answer session after each viewing (boys and girls were separate) and that I could not be responsible for the questions but would give them an honest answer. I always encouraged them to speak with an adult they trusted-their parents, an aunt or uncle etc.

In all my years of teaching this subject, I got one call from a single mom that called to thank me for doing this. Seems her son took my advice and she said they had a wonderful talk on a subject that she felt awkward to address.

Most of my time was spent reassuring these kids that they were normal and that this was a natural part of growing up.


BTW, I told my girl the facts of life as was age appropriate when ever she asked a question. It did not make her a sex crazed teen-in fact, just the opposite. She was not active until her junior year in college. I know this because she felt comfortable enough to talk to me prior. I also knew that as the Nurse's daughter, all her friends would come to her for information-and they did.

I am glad you were their for your child. I wouldn't judge the class so harshly-it can be a law suit waiting to happen.

[murielm99]

88. Make this public someplace other than DU.

Write to the local papers. Put it out on facebook.

[Thinkingabout]

90. The best advice all sex educators should read was by Elizabeth Smart. She said in some

Classes they are told a story about no one wants to chew gum some one else has already chewed. Her problem with this story is they do not know if someone in the class has or is being sexually abused and this did nothing to improve their self worth. All things should be considered, there has to be a better way than more abuse to those already abused through no fault of their own.

[gollygee]

91. Holy crap

No one had better have said that in my kid's class. I'll have to start a conversation and find out if they talked about girls who have had sex before marriage. Maybe I SHOULD have kept her out of the class.

[WCIL]

92. Wow! My kids had a great sex ed course (by comparison)

at parochial school in the early '00's. It was called In God's Image, and it was a graduated program taught each Spring starting in 5th grade and taught by the Principal (they already had the puberty course in 4th grade). It was abstinence based, of course, but the principal did not shy away from any topic. The kids learned about birth control methods, homosexuality, STD's and treatments - the whole 9 yards. She also had a write-in question portion at the end of course, and answered any question honestly (most famously, what is 69?). We knew what we were getting, and had already told our kids about sex, but I was really surprised at how little "correction" I had to do.

[efhmc]

93. So now sex is labeled as risky behavior. What if, as many kids do, one thinks of it as

fun behavior. As to reproductive health, how is one suppose to reproduce without having sex? The entire thing is just crazy.

[Warpy]

94. Oh, great, and another generation of PRUDES

makes sure teenagers get all their information about sex from other teenagers.

Way to insure the greatest amount of girls get economically stunted by becoming mothers too soon!

[NewJeffCT]

95. I grew up in central Connecticut

and went to public schools from kindergarten through high school in 1985. Other than a technical talk from our biology teacher about how the human body works, we received no sex-ed at all. Nothing about abstinence, nothing about using condoms and/or other forms of birth control, nothing. Nothing.

[LibDemAlways]

96. Things are a bit different here in my daughter's public school in

Southern Calif. In 7th grade she and her classmates learned the specifics of the male and female reproductive systems. They were also given the facts about STDs and birth control. Parents were given the option of having their kids "opt out" but no one did. And I subbed in a class one day when the lesson was about "family life" as it's called, and no one snickered. Kids are hungry for the info. Merely telling them to "abstain" is useless and stupid. Shame on the school district for failing to do their job, especially since some parents are reluctant to broach the topic.

[tabbycat31]

98. If not for sex ed in high school

I would have received 100% of my knowledge of sex from Cosmo.

My parents pretended (and still do) that it does not exist. When I was home for Mother's Day, my mom saw condoms in my overnight bag and her face turned white. I'm 33 and should not have to explain why I have condoms.

[bobclark86]

102. Yeah... not that way in my household...

Some of my earliest memories were walking in on my parents...

Oh, and finding the value-sized pack of Trojans in the toaster — they fell out of the grocery bag and Mom missed them.

My mother was pretty open about it. My "talk" was on a car ride to Jimmy Buffet's "Why Don't We Get Drunk."

[tabbycat31]

109. I would have been traumatized if I walked in on my parents

Then again I can only prove that they ever did anything twice or my sister and I were conceived by IVF. They've always been prudes.

I got one book about female stuff and everything else was from school. The talk never happened.

[bobclark86]

112. In high school,

which was about 5-7 years after my talk, I had to get a permission slip for sex ed in health class.

Mom's response?
"Fucking. Fucking is where babies come from — don't be a fool, wrap your tool."

God bless my mother and Kurt Vonnegut.

[libodem]

100. What a let down and a waste of time

I heard over and over as a young person these 'talks' would be coming from "church" and "home" yet we had comprehensive scientific information given 8th grade Health class. I had a couple talks with my mom that were basically abstainence only thinking and NEVER any discussion from any member of a church.

So sad we probably got better education on the basics in 1970.

Golly, I believe you will finish what they started and fully inform your child with as much as she wants to know. Education is our best weapon and planned parenthood classes also rock the wheels off the bus.

I'm glad you brought this subject up!

[bobclark86]

101. So... what the hell is so bad about...

"Don't be a fool, wrap your tool"

or

"No glove, no love"

Oh, I forgot. This is the crowd that screams "We love fetuses — we just don't give a fuck about them after they're born..."

[AndyA]

106. Great example of why abstinence-only sex ed DOESN'T WORK!

Students need to be given the facts. All of them. Only then can they understand the "big picture." Right now, there's just a big void where everything they don't understand lurks. Curiosity will get the best of some of them, and they'll want to explore. That's when they get into trouble.

They don't really understand what kind of trouble they could get into, either, because it's not necessary to teach that since the school assumes all of the students will abstain from sex.

Of course, abstinence-only sex ed has worked very well for some. Take Sarah Palin's kids for instance... ...oh, never mind, not a good example.

[xenocleia]

110. And I thought England in the 1960s was prudish!

Back in the '60s my school delegated sex education to the biology teacher, with the result that we ended up drawing diagrams that looked like soda fountains and being taught about amoebas and rabbits. We didn't quite know how to connect the information that the biology teacher didn't let her daughter stay out after 10pm. Our curiosity being healthily aroused by the confusing information from the biology lesson, we then followed this up in the traditional British place for learning what they don't teach you in class: behind the bike sheds. The information we exchanged there was the usual mix of the biologically and physically impossible, true, salacious and funny. Some thought the true bits were impossible. As no parental notes were required for classes held behind the bike sheds, everybody could benefit from the information exchange.

So, the solution for America is get kids to cycle to school and demand bike sheds to keep their bikes protected from the weather. That way American kids will be slimmer, fitter and healthier and profit from a better sex education.

[hrmjustin]

111. Welcome to DU my friend!

[amuse bouche]

113. Someone tweeted a map

of states with the highest and lowest teenage pregnancies

The Red Sates had the highs and the N.E Blue states had the lowest.

Sorry I didn't save it

[beachgirl2365]

114. Did they teach her about "Purple-ing?"..........

In Utaa they teach the kids,..... Girls are Red and Boys are Blue, ... when you mix the two together you get Purple or "Purple-ing"........... and you don't want to do that! (No joke!)

[Lady Freedom Returns]

118. I remember the P.E class...

They had a girls P.E and a boys P.E.

One day our teacher took us to a classroom and showed us a tape on how our bodies work. Mainly about the change from girl to woman. No talk on sex itself.

Now by this time I was 13 and most everyone else was just turning 12 (health reasons I was held from Kindergarten till I was 6 going 7).

I knew, thanks to a very open minded mother and aunts, oh and grandma, the birds and the bees. But many of the girls were confused by some of the info. They were asking questions that the teacher said she was not allowed to ask.We came back to class the next day and many still had questions. They said that their parents told them it was her job to answer them.o

You really can't count on the schools even to be allowed to say anything. And, to me, it is better for the family to help in this part anyway.

It is more impactful for women a girl has looked up to all her life laying it all out. The trials, the frustrations, and the fun!

Yes, the little "party" that the women on my mom's side threw for me covered a LOT!

[Ilsa]

120. I hope you complain to the school

and the school board that they won't even define "risky behavior" in a sex ed class.

[Chaco Dundee]

121. only in america

Had to deal with that with my 3 sons.america is so stuck up about perfectly normal life,sex,that kids get dummied up and eventually hurt,thanks to the twisted minds of their educators.

[RKP5637]

127. What a cruel joke on youth. n/t

[WinstonSmith4740]

133. I teach PE and health.

Here in Nevada, or at least Clark County, we have to teach Sex Ed. in high school. We approach it clinically/medically. I don't have to pull punches, and the pictures I use are the same ones that were in my college anatomy textbook. I always tell my kids that its not my job to tell them what their values or morals should be, or to tell them it is or isn't OK to be sexually active...that's their parents' job. Mine is to give them the information they need to make smart decisions, and try to give them the tools they need to develop a strong character. I do, however, stress abstention as the best, most foolproof way to avoid STDs and pregnancy, and that it's perfectly OK for both girls and guys to say "No, I'm not ready for this". Unfortunately, kids today are becoming sexually active younger and younger...I've had too many girls tell me they're pregnant during my six years here. One of the big problems is these girls actually think they can raise a child...they have no idea what they're in for. And then there's the "I'm a man" attitude with the boys.

I do think the tide is beginning to turn however. These kids have seen what their friends are going through trying to care for a child and go to school. Some of them were born to teen-age moms. Whatever the reason, more of them are telling me they're going to wait until they get older and finish school before they make that leap. I sure hope so...there's still too many children having babies.

[xmas74]

134. My child's district offers "the film" as a viewing party

for the parents only about two weeks before they show it to the students. I attended the viewing-just the basic "so you're entering puberty" film, with nothing else involved. The school nurse then gives us a handout, informing us where the actual "sex ed" info can be found that they will be teaching our students.

The only link on the handout? Focus on the Family.

My daughter and I had a long talk that night, before she ever saw "the film". We used the links offered on the Planned Parenthood site, which were much more involved.

http://www.plannedparenthood.org/parents/

There's also a portal for teens to use.

[blkmusclmachine]

135. Surprised they didn't just tell her to put an aspirin between her knees and pray to Gawd

[basspro1o1]

143. Sex - Ed is a Joke

Republicans have stated our population numbers are down, they Want babies anyway they can get them.To politicians they are the next generations Free money in their pockets. To those of you that are religious, your being held hostage by your religion and values, it's being used against you to further their plan and gain your money as a bonus. To religious leaders it's their next generation of believers ie. free money, the deck is stacked against any child. That leaves the parents to teach sex-ed along with everything else.. how many are so consumed with just trying to make it or have already checked out from exhaustion, or their too embarrassed to teach it ,or the not my kid their going to be a virgin till there 25, it's a huge joke and the kid is the brunt of it. The myths alone that kids believe would blow your mind away..upper class girls are clean.. you cant catch a STD from a BJ .. cant get prego if you do it this way..they don't like how a condom feels, or allergic to condoms.. or both are just too embarrassed to purchase condoms to begin with. Schools idea is to have them walk around for a week with an egg or bag of flower to show what it's like to have a kid to carry around and take care of WTF. Don't make your kid the Joke teach them to love condoms. I blew them up like balloons till there was no embarrassment, it's a you got to have it, and yes as parents you have to buy them till they can, sounds stupid but it worked. Oh and watch out one store clerk actually said he was to young to buy them, subjecting him to her belief system not on an age restriction law for purchase as there is none, but was just another means to try to embarrass and keep him from protecting himself. This is the one time as parents you get to be blunt (not mean or humiliating), the more blunt and shocking you can get the more they respond and remember. Pics on the internet of STD's are great also.. puss filled oozing scabby pics are horrifying lol. Remember you told them not to eat candy and they still did! Easier to tell them you know there going to do it but when they do..... then lay it all on them! Mines now 22 No kids, steady GF of 3 years, however almost ALL of his friends have kids, some have multiple kids by many partners, and many have been thrown out by their parents it's sad. And a FYI the girls are worse than the boys, so gl.

[Turbineguy]

145. It's all about

SEX!!! FILTHY SEX!!!

[ck4829]

146. How come no abstinence-only sex ed goes into the ways the body can shut that thing down after rape?