‘Trigger-happy’ cops shoot 72-year-old Texas man dead inside his own garage

[99th_Monkey]

The officers in this case who shot the 72-year-old man were relative rookies. The man they shot was armed with a handgun, which the officers claim they told him to drop, and then (they claim) that since he didn't immediately drop the gun, they felt obliged to immediately gunned him down with 6 rounds. The cops were "just following policies and procedures" they claim.

I have two reactions to this:
1) How many of these cases, where citizens are on their own property minding their own lawful business, when police show up and all of a sudden someone gets murdered on their own property for no fucking reason. This happened to an elderly black man in NY 9-10 months ago, where the police came on a "welfare check", the homeowner told officers he was fine (through the closed door) and that the cops could leave now; but instead the cops break down his door and murder him in cold blood. This case in Texas is different in some obvious ways, yet it is also the same in too many ways for my comfort.

2) To all you gun-owners out there, this should be a warning that cops most likely WILL assume that any Joe Blow carrying a gun (even on their own property) is a "threat" to their safety, and will shoot and ask questions later. One more reason I DON"T own a gun, so as to not provoke a cop (or anyone else) to kill me because they're afraid I'm going to shoot them, because I "have a gun".

____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^ ____ ^

‘Trigger-happy’ cops shoot 72-year-old Texas man dead inside his own garage
By Arturo Garcia * Raw Story
Wednesday, May 29, 2013 12:12 EDT

The widow of a 72-year-old Texas man is searching for answers after Fort Worth police shot and killed him on Tuesday while responding to a burglary call involving a house across the street.

“Married 46 years, and, you know, somebody gets a little trigger-happy and away they go,” Kathy Waller said to WFAA-TV on Tuesday after her husband, Jerry Waller, was shot inside the couple’s garage.

Kathy Waller told KHOU the couple noticed police in their Fort Worth neighborhood just after 1 a.m. Tuesday morning. Her husband grabbed his .38-caliber handgun and went downstairs to see what was happening. She said to the station she heard six gunshots afer he opened the garage door.

The Dallas News reported on Tuesday that authorities said in a statement that the two officers were “engaged by an adult male armed with a handgun” and shot him in fear for their safety. Jerry Waller was pronounced dead at the scene.

“I was told by an officer he wouldn’t put his gun down,” former city council member Becky Haskin told the Fort Worth Star-Telegram. Haskin lives in the same neighborhood as the victim.

The Star-Telegram also reported that the two unidentified officers involved in the shooting have been with the department for less than a year. They have both been placed on administrative leave. A department spokesperson, Cpl. Tracey Knight, also promised to conduct a transparent investigation of the shooting while explaining the officers’ presence in the Wallers’ home.

“Policies and procedures were followed,” Knight told the Star-Telegram. “Officers are taught when they go to a call to survey the entire landscape and not just the small area of where the call is.”

MORE: http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/05/29/trigger-happy-cops-shoot-72-year-old-texas-man-dead-inside-his-own-garage/

[The Magistrate]

1. 'Trigger-Happy', Sir, May Be Working Both Ways Here

When noticing police in your neighborhood, picking up a pistol before heading out to see what is happening is not really a recommended course of action....

[99th_Monkey]

8. I hear you. I had the same thought. ~nt

[The Magistrate]

11. A Surprising Number Of People, Sir, Think Owning A Gun Makes Them Some Kind Of Junior Peace-Man

It is all part and parcel of the gun fetishists' fantasy life. This fellow, unfortunately, paid full price for the ride....

[stevenleser]

13. +9999999...

[99th_Monkey]

14. but, but ...

... the geezer was only "standing his ground"!! What's so bad about that?

[stevenleser]

18. I have a tennis racquet. I'm not going to jump on the court at Wimbledon to try to help Djokovic

He is a pro, and I am not.

[cali]

16. He didn't notice police in his neighborhood. He heard a neighbor's alarm

and went to investigate

[The Magistrate]

17. I Quote From The Account Above, Ma'am

"Kathy Waller told KHOU the couple noticed police in their Fort Worth neighborhood just after 1 a.m. Tuesday morning. Her husband grabbed his .38-caliber handgun and went downstairs to see what was happening. She said to the station she heard six gunshots after he opened the garage door."

[Nay]

46. Agreed. FFS, don't approach cops while holding a gun! How hard is that to understand?

[Honeycombe8]

68. Exactly. Who, upon seeing police in your neighborhood in the middle of the night, would grab his gun

and go outside with it? What would be the purpose of that? I expect the police were thinking the same thing, so they told him to put his gun down. Maybe he didn't hear them, or maybe he didn't want to. But they say he didn't, so they shot.

Trigger happy on the cops' part, yes. But why would that man go outside with a gun when he sees police in the neighborhood?

I wonder if the widow regrets not telling him to sit his crazy ass down and not go out there, at least with a gun!

That doesn't excuse what the cops did, and I expect there will be a lawsuit, and of course there's a sad situation of a man dead. But really...people with a gun (and I am one) should get a grip and know when to hold and when to fold.

[defacto7]

87. Who would go out with a gun?

An elderly man who can't think quite as quickly has he used to. We used to give more leeway to old people just for that reason. Unfortunately, he shouldn't have had a gun in any case.

[datasuspect]

2. fuck da police

in the ear.

[Vinnie From Indy]

3. Engaging police at 1:00 in the morning

with a handgun is not wise. Not droppng your weapon when ordered to by police at 1:00 in the morning is suicidal.

[99th_Monkey]

9. That was one of my points of concern, so I agree with you

it was dumb to even pick up his gun in the first place, and then carry
it out to display it, so police can see "he's got a gun!!", was even dumber.

Still, this guys wive seem unconvinced by these claims, that they ever asking
him to drop the gun, before they shot him dead.

[stevenleser]

4. When police tell you to drop a weapon you are carrying, delaying is not a good idea.

I might agree that shooting someone with a knife or bat that is not advancing is problematic, but it's hard to find fault when it is a gun.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

26. True, if they actually told him to drop it.

[stevenleser]

43. Good point. Although I must say that bringing a gun to police activity is asking for trouble.

Am looking forward to getting all the facts, but he already is a numbskull IMHO.

[SoCalMusicLover]

45. I'm Sure Each Partner Will Attest That There Was A Warning

Even if there wasn't. Remember, dead men tell no tales, so there is nobody to dispute what the officer's story is.

[msanthrope]

5. Well, I'm glad everyone had a gun. nt

[99th_Monkey]

10. +1000 n/t

[magical thyme]

6. if I looked out a window and saw police in the neighborhood, at 1am to boot,

I'd be peeking out a window, not going outside.

And in the middle of the day, after peeking out a window I may go outside to see what's going on. But I certainly wouldn't arm myself first.

If it's dangerous enough to need a gun, I'll just stay inside and out of sight, tyvm.

Really foolish on this man's part.

[99th_Monkey]

15. No argument here. ~nt

[WinkyDink]

23. 72 years old. Shouldn't have had a gun. (My husband is 72.)

[Jenoch]

84. Why should a 72 year old man not have a gun?

[vankuria]

30. I agree

There was no need for this man to go outside, if the police are on the scene he should've assumed they are taking care of the situation. And to go out armed with a gun is just asking for trouble. If he stayed in the house, kept his door locked and minded his business, he'd still be alive.

[deutsey]

38. Same here

It might have been different if the police weren't there yet and the neighbor was crying out for help (that's fraught with danger, too, of course, but knowing me, I think my impulse would be to go out and see how I could help...after dialing 911).

However, with the police already there...I'd remain a spectator.

[Life Long Dem]

7. Who would confront a cop with gun in hand?

Maybe ones who will tell you they have the 2nd amendment right to bear arms.

[99th_Monkey]

12. Hey, the old guy was only "standing his ground"

[AnotherMcIntosh]

34. Of course, the gun-shooting cops would never create a fictional story about a confrontation.

[Robb]

19. Thankfully the guns are all OK.

[azurnoir]

20. Following the link to the original story sheds some light here

There is question as to whether the police actually told Waller to drop his gun or just opened fire

Mrs. Waller said she wasn't sure if her husband and police exchanged any words before police opened fire.

http://www.khou.com/news/texas-news/Widow-wants-answers-after-man-is-fatally-shot-by-Fort-Worth-police-209343241.html

of course the police say they did

[The Magistrate]

21. The Police May Well Have Been Hasty, Ma'am

But there is little question the man would be alive had he not "grabbed his .38-caliber handgun' before going 'downstairs to see what was happening'.

The police action is certainly more open to reasonable explanation and understanding than the usual run of beating drunks and retarded youths to death over a quarter-hour's time, or tasing elderly women pulled over for a broken tail-light....

[azurnoir]

24. that is all quite possibly true

however IMO there is question as the police have been known to shoot people even the elderly in their own homes even when they were not brandishing a gun case in point Kenneth Chamberlain Jr of White Plains NY

http://www.democracynow.org/2012/3/29/killed_at_home_white_plains_ny

the gun in this case provides a shield for the actions of the police

[The Magistrate]

25. Quite True, Ma'am

That case is a particularly bad one.

[The Straight Story]

36. So cops have never shot unarmed people and never lied about what they did to cover things up?

Yeah. Right.

But then some folks think killing kids with drones in a country we are not at war with is just fine too because...well...security reasons and they posed a threat to the entire US.

[The Magistrate]

37. Try Reading the Things You Reply To, Sir: Saves Trouble And Keeps Egg Off Your Face

"The police action is certainly more open to reasonable explanation and understanding than the usual run of beating drunks and retarded youths to death over a quarter-hour's time, or tasing elderly women pulled over for a broken tail-light...."

I am well aware police will lie, and that police cover up for one another when they abuse their authority and commit crimes.

But there is no doubt that, in this instance, the man was holding a gun in his hand when first seen by police. What other police may have done in other places at other times does not alter that.

[The Straight Story]

40. Oh I read it - rookie cops who shot a man then claimed he would not put a gun down

Drop the gun! "What? Who are you?" Blam.

I have been a cop and I know damned well they lie to protect each other. Not all cops are bad, but there are things that permeate throughout departments like backing up each other when one does something wrong.

He might have been hard of hearing, there was an alarm going off as well, and most cops I know would not see an old man with a gun as being the person breaking into a home and sticking around when the alarm went off (but then, they were rookies).

Young, male, most likely needing money for drugs (so stealing to sell) - You come up on an old man with a gun at a house and chances are he is not there to rob it. I would bet dollars to donuts one of the cops overreacted, knew it, and his buddy backed him up.

Cops come upon the house, guy opens the garage door, cops are standing there and see his gun tell him to drop it, light comes on as door was opening and he didn't know at first they were cops. He hesitates and they fire six rounds at him.

You train for those sorts of things. They screwed up. They know it.

[The Magistrate]

42. Hardly The Point You Were Trying For, Though, Sir, is It?

If he had not had the gun in his hand he almost certainly would be alive.

[Kolesar]

27. So, citizens have to know what to do with armed police at your garage at midnight

He may not have understood what they were saying and the dumbshits didn't consider that he was the homeowner and not an intruder.

[The Magistrate]

29. They Did Not Enter His Garage, Sir

He opened his garage door, meaning to exit there. He was walking out, gun in hand, into a situation where police were responding to a burglary in progress call. He would be alive if he had not held a gun.

[Kolesar]

32. Ok, I fixed it, but it's a fine detail

I didn't take the civics course explaining how to answer cops at the door. They probably drilled him and then made up a story that they warned him.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

33. Yep.

[The Magistrate]

35. Unfortunately, Sir, Your Comments Bear No Relation To the Facts As Reported, Even By His Wife

He went out to 'see what was happening', and did so with a gun in his hand. It was, and is, a very foolish thing to do. The police may well have been hasty, and may even have shot at the sight of the gun, but they did not knock on his door and shoot him when he answered it.

[Kolesar]

39. You sound bored...eom

[The Magistrate]

41. That Says More About You Than Me, Sir....

[newmember]

55. no shit that's what happened

[newmember]

47. They were at the wrong house

[The Magistrate]

49. Quite Possibly, Sir

It happens.

[newmember]

50. When you hold the power of life and death in your hand backed by the state

You should make every effort to get right

[The Magistrate]

51. And Your Point, Sir?

I doubt they simply picked a place to stop at random. That a mistake is made does not prove there was n o effort to get it right.

The fact remains that this man would be alive if he had not picked up a pistol before going out to see what was going on outside.

[newmember]

52. He's at his own home in his garage , according to testimony half of his body was in the garage

Cops were wrong and a guy is dead in his garage.

[The Magistrate]

56. He Appeared, Gun In Hand, Sir

I am not saying the police did not make a mistake, only that their mistake was one that is not unreasonable or unconscionable, a far cry from beating a drunk to death or tazing an elderly woman in her car who will not sign a ticket, or shooting a man who reached for his wallet. Police do plenty of things I think the officers involved in ought by rights to be hanged for. This is not one of those instances.

[newmember]

57. There's too many of them that go unpunished

You or I would be sitting in jail right now.

[The Magistrate]

60. Nothing You Or I Could Do, Sir, Is Directly Comparable

I suppose, under Texas law, a situation could arise where a citizen, believing he was shooting a burglar exiting a neighbor's house, in fact shot the home-owner. Law there does sanction use of deadly force to prevent escape from such a crime. A lot would depend on the circumstances, but it is far from certain there would be charges.

[newmember]

61. I don't know how Texas law is but if you do that

in the north east , NY , CT , MA , VT , RI etc.. , you're going to jail.

I guarantee it

anyways we are getting off the OP's post

[The Magistrate]

63. Texas Law is A Bit Different, Sir

In one of the more famous early cases of the new law, a man saw two men leaving a neighbor's property with some items, called 911, told the operator he was going to go shoot them, was told to stay put, went out anyway, shot both men dead, one in the back, and had no charges pressed against him. Neither man was armed, by the way, and the value of the items stolen was less than five hundred dollars.

[Comrade Grumpy]

66. And the cops who shot him made a terrible mistake. Maybe it should be a career-ending mistake.

[The Magistrate]

70. They Certainly Made A Mistake, Comrade

But it is an understandable mistake, and not one which screams depravity. It is a mistake which would not have happened had the man not 'grabbed his thirty-eight caliber handgun' on the way downstairs to 'see what was happening'.

[newmember]

71. I know you have seen the golf club incident where all the police were

cleared and it was called a good shoot?

That's what's crazy about these situations , the cops make an obviously bad shoot but it deemed
a good one by the police and the DA

[The Magistrate]

73. Of No Relevance Here, Sir

These people are not responsible for what others may have done at different places and times.

They were responding in belief a crime was in progress, saw someone stepping out with a gun, and shot him. It is possible they did not declare their office properly, it is possible they made a very poor judgement in shooting. But they shot an armed man, in circumstances where it was not unreasonable to think he was the subject they had been called to the scene to deal with.

[newmember]

76. It has relevance by being trigger happy with no repercussions

It's a pattern of police bad shootings with no repercussions.
Hell I could go on with the two women they shot in the pickup truck in California.

Even though the state paid the women , both cops still on the force.

[The Magistrate]

80. It Has No Relevance To Judging the Rights Or Wrongs Of This Incident, Sir

You are essentially arguing that because there have been incidents where police used force criminally, any police officer using force should be should be held to have done so criminally.

Nothing about this incident smacks of criminal excess, or even criminally poor decision.

[newmember]

89. I disagree with you , it's very relevant in how the police conduct internal investigations

with bad shoots , and this is a bad shoot .

It will be a head line for a day then the department will clear the officers as they have done so many times
in police Dept's. across the country where obviously bad shoots have happened .


It's relevant because it's a pattern shown to be followed and practiced in police Dept's. across the country.
You keep arguing this is a good shoot , you're wrong , this was a bad shoot by the two officers.
A mistake on their part that cost an innocent man his life in his own garage.

[The Magistrate]

93. This Is Far, Sir, from A Clear-Cut 'Bad Shoot'

The man had a gun in his hand. He was not reaching for a wallet or holding a cell phone, or a shiny object that turned out to be a spoon, nor waving a knife at ten yards distance from the officer who emptied a clip. The man had a gun. He got shot because he had a gun in his hand.

I am not arguing the officers were not mistaken. I maintain these officers, in this situation, made a mistake that is understandable, that was not an unreasonable response to what they perceived, and that their behavior does not bear the pug-marks of depravity or criminal negligence.

[newmember]

95. I don't think we will come to an agreement on this

difference of opinion is all

[azurnoir]

44. I'm not 100% you're understanding my point

the police defense of this shooting is premised on them telling the guy to drop his gun prior to shooting him and apparently there is question as whether or not they actually told him to drop the gun

[livefromsac]

22. Mr. Wayne Lapierre im confused. Who was the good guy with the gun and who was the bad one?

[rdharma]

31. Did the neighbor want this "responsible old fogy with gun" to respond to his burglar alarm?

I highly doubt that this old guy's neighbors wanted him to act as an armed first responder to their burglar alarm.

Another 'George Zimmerman' vigilante type FAIL!

[newmember]

48. They were at the wrong house

[rdharma]

53. They saw an armed a-hole with a gun in the vicinity of a burglary call!

Bad move, Mr. Neighborhoodwatch!

[Comrade Grumpy]

64. "An armed a-hole with a gun." Really?

The guy was checking on his neighbor's burglar alarm. Hardly sounds like an asshole. More like a good neighbor.

The guy took his gun as a precaution. I'm assuming it was legal.

At best, this is a tragedy at the intersection of gun culture and cop culture.

But it could be that two inexperienced Ft. Worth police officers went off half-cocked.

Are you suggesting that carrying a legal weapon means you deserve to get shot down by the cops?

[rdharma]

75. Yes. A tragedy. But caused by the vigilante neighbor!

I'm saying... a doddering old armed fool is generally not helpful responding or standing outside near a neighbor's external alarm burglar alarm response. I can guarantee you, neighbor 'gramps' wasn't on the resident's "responder list"!

[rdharma]

81. "Are you suggesting that carrying a legal weapon means you deserve to get shot down by the cops?"

Quit brandishing the gatt, pilgrim......when the PO PO is there on scene!

[newmember]

69. Cops at the wrong address and the guy is in his garage

The cops came out of his back yard around the corner of house .
They weren't standing there when the garage door opened , obviously they heard it open and came around
the corner with guns drawn and murdered him in his own garage.

[Megalo_Man]

79. Umm.. he wasn't.

He was responding to what he thought was someone breaking into his car.

[Logical]

54. Cops have no incentive to not shoot first for no reason. They never get convicted of a crime...

and rarely get fired. Why take any risk when you have no punishment for shooting?

[rdharma]

58. Riiiiiiiiight!

Absolutely no repercussions from a bad shooting.

[Logical]

59. You know how many cops get off for obviously bad shootings? Or a grand jury "decides" not to....

indite them because the prosecutor presents the evidence he wants to present?

You must not read much.

[Comrade Grumpy]

65. You don't really pay much attention to that issue, do you?

Or you would know that the indictment of police shooters is quite rare and their convictions even more so. Maybe it's because every police shooting is justified. But probably not.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

88. Wrong. There are repercussions. They get paid time off (aka paid vacations).

In what other occupation can you seriously screw up and get more vacation time?

Name one.

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

62. It doesn't need to be a gun for the LEO to justify a round to the head.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=2919510

[99th_Monkey]

67. Yes, it's like we're being "conditioned" to just accept this kind of shit

as the new normal. Would make Adolf proud.

[newmember]

72. That's exactly what's happening

[newmember]

74. Another bad shoot where the cop doesn't get charged

http://jonathanturley.org/2011/05/28/seattle-pays-1-5m-to-family-of-victim-of-police-shooting/


John T. Williams, a Native American woodcarver, died after being shot 4 times by Officer Ian Birk on August 30, 2010. Dashcam video is shown below

Officer Birk was not criminally charged in the shooting but did resign

That is a good punishment for murdering a person , you get to resign from your job

[rdharma]

77. The old fogy did EVERYTHING WRONG!

Why is he responding to a neighbor's burglar alarm? Did the neighbor request that?

When the Po Po arrive ........PUT YOUR GATT AWAY.....OR HOLSTER IT, idiot!

[Megalo_Man]

78. He wasn't.

He thought it was his car's alarm going off. Got shot on his own property just outside of his garage. Wife saw the whole thing, and they kept her the back of a car for two hours without letting her talk to anyone.

[rdharma]

82. Oh! He thought someone was breaking into his car..........

So he was ready to shoot someone for a property crime? FINE!

[Megalo_Man]

85. Being armed when confronting a burglar is a bad idea?

[rdharma]

90. Make sure that "burglar" isn't your wife or kids going to the bathroom!

I've seen it happen.

[rrneck]

83. It's never just one thing.

Two rookie cops, probably at the wrong address. A homeowner that fails to stay in the house when he knows there are police in the area. Everybody made mistakes, but the only guy that will pay for them is the guy that died. Tough luck.

Let that be a lesson. If there is an alarm, verify everybody in the house is okay and stay inside. The only thing you have to be worried about is an intruder who might be fleeing the police. If it happens outside the house, let the cops handle it. If there is a knock on the door verify that it is the police even if you have to call 911 and do it.

[The Magistrate]

86. Home Truths, Sir

Serious cock-ups are co-operative ventures....

[rdharma]

91. "cock-ups are co-operative ventures"....

Not always. But appears so in this case.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

92. Both the decedent's son and the medical examiner say that he was shot inside his garage.

The decedent's son says his father was shot "only a few steps away from the doorway to his kitchen" inside his garage,

“My father never stepped outside of his garage”.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/05/29/4892910/family-says-man-killed-by-fort.html

Also

"Waller was pronounced dead at 1:26 a.m. Tuesday inside the attached garage of his residence at 404 Havenwood Lane North, the Tarrant County medical examiner’s office reported.

http://www.star-telegram.com/2013/05/29/4892910/family-says-man-killed-by-fort.html

[newmember]

94. Yup , I said that earlier in the thread

bad shoot inside the mans own garage.