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KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
Fri May 31, 2013, 12:43 PM May 2013

More than 86% of fatal dog attacks are done by this kind of dog:

Un-neutered males.

Approximately 92% of fatal dog attacks involved male dogs, 94% of which were not neutered.


http://www.americanhumane.org/animals/stop-animal-abuse/fact-sheets/dog-bites.html

I own 2 dogs and have many friends who also own dogs. We go to dog parks. We socialize with every type of dog. I usually rely on other owners to say whether their dog is cool with meeting other dogs, or to set any limits. A fair percentage of owners mis-read their own dog -- tail between the legs, backing up but they drag the dog forward to mine or won't let it back up -- that's when I back my dogs up and decline the greeting. A scared dog will bite more readily than a confident relaxed dog. We have all heard about "fight or flight" but many dog owners don't apply this knowledge pragmatically: if your scared dog can't 'flight' then its only option is to bite so make sure both dogs have room to back up.

When we are approaching a new dog, the second thing I look for is whether or not it is neutered. If it is NOT neutered then I don't care what the owner says, there will be no greeting. I will cross the street or do whatever I have to do to avoid contact.

( The first thing I look at btw, is the body language of the approaching dog and its owner and how long their leash is. )


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More than 86% of fatal dog attacks are done by this kind of dog: (Original Post) KurtNYC May 2013 OP
pretty much like humans Kali May 2013 #1
Yup. nt Nay May 2013 #15
8% of humans are neutered? Dash87 May 2013 #19
Good question. Many people elect to be neutered when their litter is the size they want. Dollface May 2013 #31
Neutered does not mean what you think it means Major Nikon Jun 2013 #76
+1 n/t Triana May 2013 #22
snap BainsBane May 2013 #23
REAL men dont get their dogs neutered ErikJ May 2013 #29
Real men don't get neutered Katashi_itto May 2013 #45
that comment + that avatar redqueen May 2013 #57
More man-hating bullshit. Earth_First May 2013 #61
HAHAHAHAHA!!!! Kali May 2013 #62
Our seven pound male dog is neutered. onehandle May 2013 #2
i can relate shanti May 2013 #9
Just like people. Smarmie Doofus May 2013 #3
that is a much bigger problem than what breed it is. liberal_at_heart May 2013 #4
and a more reliable red flag than the perceived breed I think. n/t KurtNYC May 2013 #12
never did understand shanti May 2013 #5
So true. narnian60 May 2013 #10
Very true, and it's why, IMHO, so many men were distressed when Angelina Jolie revealed Nay May 2013 #17
Wow. n/t Smarmie Doofus May 2013 #32
ITA. Even cats. An old boyfriend many years Ilsa May 2013 #53
yes shanti May 2013 #54
funny, we were dogsitting last weekend a stupid looking Chiuaua snooper2 May 2013 #6
And spayed or neutered. nt narnian60 May 2013 #8
Are you sure she was in heat? Was she bleeding? notadmblnd May 2013 #55
And some people still believe narnian60 May 2013 #7
That, and many other old tales from eons past!! hamsterjill May 2013 #37
I've heard all of these as well and can't take teh stoopid BrotherIvan May 2013 #47
+a million. nt narnian60 May 2013 #56
This forum is dogged with dogmatic dogfighting and doggerel. Pardon me while I catch a dognap Nimajneb Nilknarf May 2013 #11
that does not give you any idea hfojvt May 2013 #13
They did a full study but it doesn't seem much like you are KurtNYC May 2013 #14
sarcasm is less efficient than straight up insults? hfojvt May 2013 #21
My Shar Pei was an un-neutered male ellie May 2013 #16
Pit bulls everywhere thank you KamaAina May 2013 #18
And 59% of fatal dog attacks are done by this kind of dog: ozone_man May 2013 #20
59% of deaths are put bulls? That's an extremely compelling number. lindysalsagal May 2013 #27
There's another, rarely mentioned, factor with pit bulls Brainstormy May 2013 #36
Yup. The brainless druggies accross my street keep the dogs to safeguard their property. lindysalsagal May 2013 #48
Oh yes, there is that aspect. ozone_man Jun 2013 #63
gotta challange for you azurnoir May 2013 #34
Sourced from DogsBite.com. baldguy May 2013 #43
Back up your data, Google-master, please? flvegan Jun 2013 #64
Is Wikipedia ok? ozone_man Jun 2013 #79
Not if it cites admittedly flawed data by the CDC or that dipshit Merritt Clifton. flvegan Jun 2013 #80
How is it flawed? ozone_man Jun 2013 #81
Didn't you use the term "pure bread" previously in these regards? flvegan Jun 2013 #66
Sorry, you got a better chance of dying OwnedByCats Jun 2013 #74
22 people were not killed by Pit Bulls in 2012. baldguy Jun 2013 #75
Ok baldguy lol OwnedByCats Jun 2013 #78
This is an EXCELLENT point BrotherIvan May 2013 #24
Another stat says that only 10% of dogs given to shelters are neutered. KurtNYC May 2013 #28
In the article it also says there are no stray dogs in Norway BrotherIvan May 2013 #41
One way NY encourages it jeff47 May 2013 #39
That's a good start BrotherIvan May 2013 #44
My spayed cat will eat your arm off Aerows May 2013 #25
100% of all wars . . . Richard D May 2013 #26
Joan of Arc. tclambert May 2013 #50
Zheng He - eunuch admiral in the 1400s KurtNYC Jun 2013 #69
And the eunuch Narses, who took over from Belisarius around 551 AD. tclambert Jun 2013 #71
Which doesn't necessarily mean pit bulls are less dangerous michigandem58 May 2013 #30
Which doesn't necessarily mean pit bulls are more dangerous, either. baldguy May 2013 #46
No. Yorkies and Pomeranians just aren't as popular with drug dealers, dog fighters, and other tclambert May 2013 #51
Actually, smaller dogs bite more often than medium & large dogs. baldguy Jun 2013 #72
Show your math. flvegan Jun 2013 #65
It's logic, not a mathematical calculation michigandem58 Jun 2013 #77
It may mean that on average a spayed female pit bull is no more "dangerous" KurtNYC Jun 2013 #67
It's a good idea for people to get their pets spade or neautered. Loudestlib May 2013 #33
The numbers are either accurate or not but statistics have no bias KurtNYC Jun 2013 #70
If I have my dog in a dog park... a la izquierda May 2013 #35
+1000000000 baldguy May 2013 #38
+1,000 yep read the ears and tail especially azurnoir May 2013 #40
some anti dog mt_big_blue_sky May 2013 #42
This is a very good post and article. defacto7 May 2013 #49
When protecting her young BainsBane May 2013 #58
the leader in our 'pack' was a spayed female nadine_mn Jun 2013 #73
A tail between a dogs legs does not indicate fear notadmblnd May 2013 #52
Spaying/neutering companion animals prevents lots of suffering REP May 2013 #59
This message was self-deleted by its author Earth_First May 2013 #60
So sexually frustrated dogs are a problem? n/t vaberella Jun 2013 #68

Dollface

(1,590 posts)
31. Good question. Many people elect to be neutered when their litter is the size they want.
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:08 PM
May 2013

I wonder what the percentage really is. There must be a study out there somewhere. Google awaaayyyyyy...

Earth_First

(14,910 posts)
61. More man-hating bullshit.
Fri May 31, 2013, 07:52 PM
May 2013

Aww, how cute...a smilie which most certainly is posted knowing that you attempt to stir the pot.

:yawn:

onehandle

(51,122 posts)
2. Our seven pound male dog is neutered.
Fri May 31, 2013, 12:47 PM
May 2013

And before you ask, 'What kind of damage could he do?,' I will relate the time that my Grandmother's un-neutered seven pound dog, bit my cousin's bottom lip off.

The hospital sewed it back on, and she was quite beautiful last time I saw her.

shanti

(21,675 posts)
9. i can relate
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:04 PM
May 2013

one of my sons had a dog bite part of his upper lip off. yes, the docs sewed it back on, but it never looked the same again, and it wasn't beautiful. . the upper lip line is extremely difficult to match up.

can't remember if the dog was neutered or not. he was a large dog, a Plotthound (bear/boar hunting dog). my son had been teasing him. it was a "warning" bite, because he could have done much more damage if he'd wanted to. it was very traumatic!

shanti

(21,675 posts)
5. never did understand
Fri May 31, 2013, 12:58 PM
May 2013

why people won't neuter/spay their animals...and it's mostly men who have a problem with this, in my experience. they act like it's them being neutered!

Nay

(12,051 posts)
17. Very true, and it's why, IMHO, so many men were distressed when Angelina Jolie revealed
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:36 PM
May 2013

she had had a double mastectomy -- in their minds, they truly thought THEY were being deprived of something. It's ALL ABOUT THEM, it seems.

Ilsa

(61,695 posts)
53. ITA. Even cats. An old boyfriend many years
Fri May 31, 2013, 04:25 PM
May 2013

ago freaked out when I had my cat neutered. He yelled something like, "You cut off his balls!!!" really loud. Then asked me why I did the same to my female cat, claiming I should let her have the experience of having a litter.
His reaction was so freakish that I was glad to turn down an offer for another date.

 

snooper2

(30,151 posts)
6. funny, we were dogsitting last weekend a stupid looking Chiuaua
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:01 PM
May 2013

She's under two years old, but was in heat..

She was actually humping our Bichon

besides that though, two of my daughter's friends came over- boys age 4 and 6, stupid little Chiuaua went after them and actually bit Keaton (didn't break the skin)...


Dogs just need to be watched

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
55. Are you sure she was in heat? Was she bleeding?
Fri May 31, 2013, 04:33 PM
May 2013

A female dog humping another dog indicates dominance, it has nothing to do with sex. In fact, during a heat cycle, there is only 3 days that the female will allow a male to approach her for mating, it is during the middle of the cycle.



narnian60

(3,510 posts)
7. And some people still believe
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:02 PM
May 2013

that spaying or neutering causes a negative change to the pet's personality.

hamsterjill

(15,220 posts)
37. That, and many other old tales from eons past!!
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:38 PM
May 2013

I'm in rescue and I still hear the same old excuses all the time:

She'll get fat if she gets fixed;
She needs to have a litter of puppies/kittens first;
I want my kids to witness the miracle of birth;
She won't be the same;
I couldn't do that to HIM!
He will become a girlie wimp if they cut his balls off.

And on, and on, and on, and on!

Responsible Pet Owners have their pets fixed! End of the story.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
47. I've heard all of these as well and can't take teh stoopid
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:49 PM
May 2013

I really admire Bob Barker for always pushing this message and putting a ton of money toward it.

 

Nimajneb Nilknarf

(319 posts)
11. This forum is dogged with dogmatic dogfighting and doggerel. Pardon me while I catch a dognap
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:07 PM
May 2013

with my pet dogfish.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
13. that does not give you any idea
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:12 PM
May 2013

of how many non-neutered males are NOT involved in any sort of attack.

So you have, what, 400 fatal attacks out of 35,000,000 male dogs. Say half of them have not been neutered. So you have an attack ratio of 400 out of 17,000,000. So you would neuter 17,000,000 because of 400?

Not to mention the apparently 8% of fatal attacks that involve female dogs or the other 6% of fatal attacks that involve a neutered male dog.

Guess what? I bet very close to 100% of fatal dog attacks involve this type of dog.

Dogs with teeth.

Get your dog's teeth removed NOW!!

The safety of America depends on it.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
14. They did a full study but it doesn't seem much like you are
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:29 PM
May 2013

interested in statistics. If landlords and insurance companies are not willing to look at detailed data then ALL dogs will suffer. many dogs are given up now by people who can't find an apartment that will take their dog.

Much more data here:
http://www.nationalcanineresearchcouncil.com/dogbites/dog-bite-related-fatalities/

Sarcasm is the least efficient form of communication.

hfojvt

(37,573 posts)
21. sarcasm is less efficient than straight up insults?
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:17 PM
May 2013

It doesn't seem like you are much interested in communicating.

Seems to me that with some kind of mandatory sterilization program, that ALL dogs will suffer too.

Limiting the study to fatalities seems kinda limited. Often people are more worried about being bit more than they are about being killed.

ellie

(6,929 posts)
16. My Shar Pei was an un-neutered male
Fri May 31, 2013, 01:34 PM
May 2013

and he was extremely aggressive. He was elderly when I adopted him and I was afraid to have him put anesthesia. We could never have people over because he would lunge at them.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
20. And 59% of fatal dog attacks are done by this kind of dog:
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:06 PM
May 2013
http://www.dogbite-expert.com/statistics-usfatal-2006-2008.htm

Percentage of all Deaths

Pit bull 52 59% Rottweiler 12 14% American bulldog 4 5% Husky 4 5% German shepherd 3 3% Doberman pinscher 2 2% Chow chow 2 2% Wolf-hybrid 2 2% Labrador 2 2% Australian shepherd 1 1% Golden retriever 1 1% Boxer 1 1% Bullmastiff 1 1% Great pyrenees 1 1% Mixed breed (undetermined) 1 1% Jack Russell terrier 1 1% Old English sheepdog 1 1% Mastiff 1 1% Presa canario 1 1% Total 93 104%

----------------

Now if you have an un-neutered, male pit bull, well that is just asking for trouble.

lindysalsagal

(20,682 posts)
27. 59% of deaths are put bulls? That's an extremely compelling number.
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:47 PM
May 2013

It's hard to get statistics on anything that reach beyond the 50's. If that study is true, it's something pit bull owners have to recognize:

Small bites are one thing, but deaths are not to be slighted.

I know there are hundreds of pit bull owners on here who will swear their little sweetie couldn't hurt a flea, but I don't know that when I see one loose, like the 2 across the street from me.

One was loose yesterday,and I made sure I was in my garage before getting out of the car. Their other one got lose and threatened me last year. It was stalking me on my own front yard, and wouldn't let me out of my own house. It was guarding both of my exit doors, keeping me inside. Sorry, but that's not exactly poodle or terrier behavior.

After 10 minutes, I called the police and they called them and insisted they get their pit bull off my lawn.

Now, before you attack me, I rescued a stray dog from the street last month, when it was wandering around in busy traffic.

I pulled over, called it, it let me pick it up, and I carried it around for 10 minutes looking for it's owners. When no one knew anything, I put in in the front seat of my car, right next to me, and drove it to a vet, where it was picked up the next day, safe and sound, by it's owners.

So I don't need any lectures on dogs: I love them. I've owned them and handled them really well.

But 59% is a number you can't ignore. Loose pit bulls scare me. Because I know dogs.

Brainstormy

(2,380 posts)
36. There's another, rarely mentioned, factor with pit bulls
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:35 PM
May 2013

I'm afraid of pit bulls, too. Personal experience. But I also recognize that the breed, and associated breeds, sometimes get more of a bad rap than they deserve. I recently read that certain types of individuals, like convicted felons, who choose to own this breed over others. Can't find that article again but in searching for it I was surprised to discover that there are many places with laws prohibiting the ownership of pit bulls by felons. There's something going on here apart from the breed. Some bad dogs maybe. But also some bad masters. And not likely the type to neuter.

lindysalsagal

(20,682 posts)
48. Yup. The brainless druggies accross my street keep the dogs to safeguard their property.
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:55 PM
May 2013

For them, the dogs are just business. Typical.

Basically, if you're an aggressive, hostile person, you're not bringing home a shitzu and training it to attack.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
63. Oh yes, there is that aspect.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 12:59 AM
Jun 2013

It surely is not just the breed, but also how owners train or treat them. So the two aspects are inseparable. But, there is definitely the capability of these dogs being killers much more than Labradors or golden retrievers for example. Otherwise, the druggies would be using them as attack dogs.

But, looking at the statistic by itself, knowing that it is tilted by owners that bring out the worst in the animals, it is an impressive statistic. 59%. And Rottweilers another 14%.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
34. gotta challange for you
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:29 PM
May 2013

at the link pick out both the pit bull and the presa canario and tell us what the difference is, I already know


http://www.pitbullsontheweb.com/petbull/findpit.html

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
79. Is Wikipedia ok?
Tue Jun 11, 2013, 11:03 PM
Jun 2013

It appears that pit bulls are consistently the number one breed responsible for deaths due to dog bites. They seem to be in the 40-50% range, while Rottweilers are in the 10-15% range. This is somewhat lower than the previous link, but it is the same two breeds that dominate. Face it Pit bulls are called that for a reason. They were were bred to be fighters, and killers, however sweet some may be.

----------------------------------

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_dog_attacks_in_the_United_States

2006 30 Pit bull (14) (47%) Rottweiler (9) (30%) Mixed breed dog (4) (13%)
2007 34 Pit bull (14) (41%) Mixed breed dog (7) (21%) Rottweiler (4) (12%)
2008 23 Pit bull (12) (52%) Mixed breed dog (7) (30%) Husky (2) (9%)
2009 31 Pit bull (11) (35%) Rottweiler (2) (6%) Mastiff (1) (3%)

Mixed breed dog (11) (35%) Husky (2) (6%) Boxer (1) (3%)
Alaskan Malamute (1) (3%)
Weimaraner (1) (3%)

2010 36 Pit bull (15) (42%) Mixed breed dog (9) (25%) Rottweiler (4) (11%)
2011 31 Pit bull (14) (45%) Mixed breed dog (5) (16%) Rottweiler (4) (13%)
2012 34 Pit bull (13) (38%) Mixed breed dog (9) (26%) Rottweiler (3) (9%)

flvegan

(64,407 posts)
80. Not if it cites admittedly flawed data by the CDC or that dipshit Merritt Clifton.
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 12:35 AM
Jun 2013

Want to try again?

Wikipedia. Is this what we've come to? I have no fucking idea, so I go to wikipedia and barf up whatever unverified crap some other idiot has posted there.

Face it? LOL, clueless.

ozone_man

(4,825 posts)
81. How is it flawed?
Wed Jun 12, 2013, 10:10 AM
Jun 2013

Each incident is referenced to a news article describing the incident. It looks very carefully documented.

OwnedByCats

(805 posts)
74. Sorry, you got a better chance of dying
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:41 AM
Jun 2013

from lightening than a pit bull. It's still incredibly rare given how many are estimated to inhabit the country. In 2012 there were 21 or 22 people who died from a pit bull, a pit bull type, which means it may have been a pit bull or a mix, but also maybe not a pit bull at all- but nobody really knows. I've seen dogs misidentified as pit bulls, so it does happen.

So not to make light of those people dying, but the mass hysteria is beyond ridiculous. If "pit bulls" were as dangerous as some here make out that they are - there would be not double digit deaths, there would be deaths in the 5 or 6 figure range per year. The number is a drop in the bucket compared to our human and pit bull population. While there are things we should do to drop that number even more, some perspective is in order here.

Talk to actual people who have experience with large numbers of them and you'll find a completely different attitude. I've yet to meet or hear of those experienced with rescuing them, vets who treat them, people who work in kennels and shelters, along with people who have owned a number of them say they are horrible vicious dogs. These people would know. You should not judge a whole breed on the actions of what amounts to a very very small percentage. Dogs that never hurt a flea much less a person are being unfairly judged by people who have no clue what they're talking about.

Take any medium or large dog, train then to be aggressive, give them no socialization skills whatsoever, abuse them in other ways and fail to neuter that dog - that's a recipe for disaster with ANY dog strong enough to maim or kill a person. It used to be Dobermans, Rottweilers and German Shepherds that were maligned in this way. That was all bs too.

It's the thugs ruining this breed's reputation and everyone wants to blame the dogs. The dogs don't know any better, people however should.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
75. 22 people were not killed by Pit Bulls in 2012.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 09:14 AM
Jun 2013

Those figures are from media reports were the breed was ID'd visually, with no DNA testing done and no documentation of the breed. With no documentation or DNA testing, the best that can be said is that the dogs were of unknown or mixed breed.

Media reports are depressingly inaccurate. From 2009-2011, Pit Bulls were reported to be implicated in 55% of dog bite deaths, when the fact is it's closer to 7% - similar to Rottweilers. 75% were either unknown or of mixed breed. I expect media reports in 2012 and 2013 to have the same amount of inaccuracy.

OwnedByCats

(805 posts)
78. Ok baldguy lol
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 02:43 PM
Jun 2013

I know that, as I've said before - and did say in my post that misidentification happens, I've seen it myself. My point is even if those were all pit bulls, that's one of the rarest ways to die so what's with the hysteria? You and I both know it's bs. We both know journalists and news reporters with the bias couldn't properly identify a pit bull most of the time. We also rarely get the extenuating circumstances behind these attacks and using their buzz word of "pit bull" is damaging. Between them and the people who shouldn't have a goldfish much less a dog, this whole idea that pit bulls are vicious out of the womb is still a belief amongst people who have no idea what they are talking about, and sadly some of them write legislation.

I agree with you 100% and I do appreciate what you've been doing. I'm quoting official stats and even if completely true, which I highly doubt - the hysteria on this is insane. Just trying to get perspective back. The misidentification is a huge problem and it needs to stop.

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
24. This is an EXCELLENT point
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:21 PM
May 2013

I do believe that like licensing, spay and neuter should be mandatory for all pet owners. Cats and dogs. Only licensed breeders (and I don't mean backyard breeders) should be allowed to have reproducing pets.

I know that in Los Angeles, there are organizations that can give coupons to help with the cost. There are also low-cost clinics and roving clinics that do it. Especially in the case of males, neutering is so simple, doesn't require anesthesia or stitches and the dog is usually up and around the same day. I wish more money could be put toward this as it would save so much in killing unwanted pets in shelters down the road. I also believe vet clinics charge far too much.

Educating people is the key like anything else. When I had my cat neutered, the vet told me my pet would live 2-4 years longer because testosterone speeds the aging process. Also, a neutered pet is much better behaved and safer for the family AND other dogs. Neutering your dog does not make him fat and sleep all day. Neutering your dog has nothing to do with your own virility and masculinity. There is absolutely no need to have an non-neutered dog as a pet.

I hate to say it, but the dogs I see intact around here are...pitbulls. It just seems to all fit with wanting to appear tough. It's just a recipe for disaster. But I won't let my dog near Chihuahuas either, they're vicious little things.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
28. Another stat says that only 10% of dogs given to shelters are neutered.
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:48 PM
May 2013

And I just found this on Norway -- it is illegal to neuter a dog in Norway...

In an American study from 1996, un-neutered dogs were highly represented among homeless or strays, and owners named behavioural problems as a reason for giving up their dogs.
...
Therese Bienek got her veterinarian’s degree in the USA and worked there for a couple of years. Now she’s also been a vet in Oslo for two years.
...
“I’d never sutured so many bite wounds on dogs as I’ve been doing since I got back to Norway.”


http://sciencenordic.com/should-dogs-be-neutered

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
41. In the article it also says there are no stray dogs in Norway
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:43 PM
May 2013

So there's that. Put it together with a highly educated, affluent population. I do no agree that altering pets "for the convenience of humans" is wrong. I do not believe it is cruel. We BREED them with traits for our convenience. Domesticated animals could not survive without humans and so they need to be able to fit into society. It's a totally different story in the US. Any but the most affluent neighborhoods in LA have (mostly pitbull types and Chihuahuas) running around the streets at all hours of the day. The kid's park where I swim is surrounded by stray dogs all the time. We have lots of irresponsible owners and a glut of stray pets so there is absolutely NO NEED to have reproducing pets.

And don't get me started on those zip leashes...

BrotherIvan

(9,126 posts)
44. That's a good start
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:46 PM
May 2013

But since the cost of a license is so low (I think the last one we paid was $15), it doesn't offset the cost of spay/neuter which a lot of vets here charge upwards of $150. Dog parks not allowing them in is also a good practice. But there are just so many dogs allowed to wander loose around here, it's a drop in the bucket. If it were possible, I would do trap & release like I do for feral cats. If there were a law to back me and other animal advocates up, as in the owner could not sue us for getting their dog altered, then we could deal with the problem very efficiently.

 

Aerows

(39,961 posts)
25. My spayed cat will eat your arm off
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:24 PM
May 2013

and your dog's too if you come in her yard. I've seen her bow up to a 60 lbs dog, and not have the slightest hesitation. The catch is - she's grew up outside.

tclambert

(11,085 posts)
50. Joan of Arc.
Fri May 31, 2013, 04:09 PM
May 2013

Helen of Troy (sort of).

Margaret Thatcher (Falkland Islands War).

Daenerys Targaryen (okay, she's fictional).

So, anyway, it's only like 99.9999999999% un-neutered male humans.

tclambert

(11,085 posts)
71. And the eunuch Narses, who took over from Belisarius around 551 AD.
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:27 AM
Jun 2013

They say he became a eunuch when attacked by a Pittus Bullius (kidding).

 

michigandem58

(1,044 posts)
30. Which doesn't necessarily mean pit bulls are less dangerous
Fri May 31, 2013, 02:58 PM
May 2013

Those who think it does, please repeat Logic 101.

 

baldguy

(36,649 posts)
46. Which doesn't necessarily mean pit bulls are more dangerous, either.
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:49 PM
May 2013

Except for every Pit Bull that may bite, there are 500,000 that won't - just like any other dog.

tclambert

(11,085 posts)
51. No. Yorkies and Pomeranians just aren't as popular with drug dealers, dog fighters, and other
Fri May 31, 2013, 04:15 PM
May 2013

macho criminal type humans. Bad people disproportionately get dogs they think look tough, like Rottweilers and German Shepherds. They fear other drug dealers will mock them if they own poodles. They'd own sharks if they could.

 

michigandem58

(1,044 posts)
77. It's logic, not a mathematical calculation
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 01:45 PM
Jun 2013

The gender and spaying of dogs are factors. Breed is a separate factor. Your asking to see the "math" indicates you really don't understand.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
67. It may mean that on average a spayed female pit bull is no more "dangerous"
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 06:58 AM
Jun 2013

than the average dog but we would need to know total number of dogs by breed by gender and whether they are neutered.

If we assume that 50% of dogs are female (although I suspect it is higher because more males are put down than females) and that 66% are spayed or neutered then the total population of spayed female dogs is:

total dogs in US: 69.2 mil
x 50% females = 34.6
x 66% spayed = 22.8 mil

This means spayed females of all breeds make up 33% of the total dog population yet they are at MOST 8% of the dogs involved in fatal attacks, and therefore at least 4 times less likely than average to be involved in an attack fatal to humans.

By some estimates pit bulls make up 9.6% of the total dog population, (~20% of impounded dogs and ~30% of euthanized dogs) but I have yet to see stats that show frequency of spaying by breed.

https://www.avma.org/KB/Resources/Statistics/Pages/Market-research-statistics-US-pet-ownership.aspx

Loudestlib

(980 posts)
33. It's a good idea for people to get their pets spade or neautered.
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:27 PM
May 2013

It's a bad idea to get your information from a source with a strong bias.

From the study they used, note that they chose not to include this information even though it was in the conclusion:

"This is no evidence that, absent circumstances specifically associated with mating or maternal protectiveness, a dog being
intact should be understood as a cause of aggressive behavior toward human beings."

They also left out the main finding of the study that most of the deaths were from outside dogs not kept as family pets.

KurtNYC

(14,549 posts)
70. The numbers are either accurate or not but statistics have no bias
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:16 AM
Jun 2013

They found correlation but backed away from any theories about causation which is kind of cowardly...maybe they should grow a pair!

a la izquierda

(11,794 posts)
35. If I have my dog in a dog park...
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:29 PM
May 2013

and an unneutered male shows up, we leave. I have three male dogs, all neutered, and all three-even the tiny one- react oddly to unaltered males.

azurnoir

(45,850 posts)
40. +1,000 yep read the ears and tail especially
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:41 PM
May 2013

ears back means more submissive, ears forward more aggressive and if the dog is acting fearful give it some space you're absolutely right about that

I've only seen my dog act in a hostile manner with one other dog and that was my MIL's , both are spayed females mine is a Pit/Pointer mix and MIL's is a Lab/Rott mix but MIL's is more aggressive and introduced herself by attempting to mount Ruby who was having none of that, no biting occurred but there was some growling

defacto7

(13,485 posts)
49. This is a very good post and article.
Fri May 31, 2013, 03:58 PM
May 2013

Thanks. It's true for the most part but I would not underestimate the aggressive behavior of an alpha bitch. (sorry to those who are sensitive but this is the proper usage for the word.) In a pack with pups, the alpha bitch can be THE most aggressive over any pack males neutered or not, but that is usually when she is approached or there's a perceived attack or attack stance; they will protect their pack and pups. Sometimes that continues after the pups are gone, they can become the leaders of the pack. The two most aggressive dogs I have ever had in my care were over-bread alpha bitch show dogs, but that's not the norm.

I think the article is true in the vast majority of situations probably due to domestication. City dogs can be different than country dogs too, but that's another long story.

nadine_mn

(3,702 posts)
73. the leader in our 'pack' was a spayed female
Sat Jun 1, 2013, 07:40 AM
Jun 2013

there was no question she was the alpha - we had collie mix, a lab mix then adopted another lab mix and finally a GSD - all rescued and all fixed. The collie mix (a short haired Lassie who had been abused by her original owners) was the alpha female.

She was so protective of her pack - any threat to them (by other dogs acting aggressively) she would instantly intervene. Hilarious to see this fluffy collie put a pit bull, rottie, a pack of ankle biters or GSD in their place with just her attitude.

I cannot imagine what she would have been like if she was unaltered and had her own litter.

notadmblnd

(23,720 posts)
52. A tail between a dogs legs does not indicate fear
Fri May 31, 2013, 04:17 PM
May 2013

It indicates submissiveness. Nor does a tail up and wagging indicate friendliness. It indicates excitement. Also a dog backing up might indicate a lack of trust but not necessarily on the part pf the dog. If a dog's human is displaying a lack of trust, the dog will display the same behavior, especially if the dog is excited. When introducing dogs to each other, their humans should be calm but assertive. The dogs should also be in a calm state of mind. You can tell when a dog is calm- his ears are back, his tail is down or he is laying or sitting.

The way dogs introduce themselves to each other is by smelling so you want to make sure noses are engaged when greeting each other. A bark or a yelp or even a snarl while sniffing each others butts also does not indicate an attack/fight is eminent. It may just indicate that one of the dogs isn't ready to be greeted at such an intimate level. Yes, both dogs should be leashed during an initial greeting.

REP

(21,691 posts)
59. Spaying/neutering companion animals prevents lots of suffering
Fri May 31, 2013, 07:45 PM
May 2013

Besides preventing the birth of animals that won't have homes, it can lessen the chance of cancers (especially mammary cancers); spare the animal unfulfilled heat cycles (they are physically stressful) as well as lessen aggression.

I've always adopted stray/rescue/thrown-away animals and gotten them full medical care, including spay/neuter. I've never known one whose personality changed or behavior (aside from adult male cats no longer spraying) changed. Because so many of these cats were strays, I did get to know them before they moved in with us

Response to KurtNYC (Original post)

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