When you play the game... You win or you die.

[MirrorAshes]

My point being, be upset all you like right now. Don't let it affect what we do in 2014. If we lose big, the setbacks will be devastating. Remember the people we're up against. They want us in shambles. They want us destroyed.

Forgive the silly comparison, but it's been a very Game of Thrones-y week for me, but this strikes me as a point we ought not lose sight of. Now, in 2014, 2016, or ever.

[Initech]

1. Oh yeah. This NSA bullshit this week? It's merely a test distraction.

We cannot lose sight of the bigger picture here: They are trying to frame Obama for the crimes they committed under Bush. We cannot allow that to happen!!!

[geckosfeet]

15. The difference is that "they" won't think twice about trying to impeach Obama.

[truebluegreen]

2. If we have to run against Obama and the plutocrats

that is a fight I don't mind having.

I voted for Obama twice and would again, given the alternative, but I'd like to send him and the rest of our elected representatives the message that they need to listen to and work for we the people, not the Big Money Boyz or the MIC.

[cantbeserious]

21. Nice Sentiment - Will Never Happen In The Reality I Inhabit Before My Number Expires

eom

[truebluegreen]

23. Certainly won't with that attitude. eom

[cantbeserious]

25. Thanks For The Ad Hominen Attack Since You Know Nothing About Me Or My Age Or My Health

eom

[DisgustipatedinCA]

3. I have to go with founding principles over party

I get where you're coming from, but spying on innocents is not something I support, and it trumps all politics for me. Yeah, I know I'm naive, but that's the way it's going to be for me.

[MirrorAshes]

5. Not naive.. but consider the alternatives.

Putting our guys on notice, holding their feet to the fire, getting the PARTY to realign with founding principles... is difficult. But that is the fight we have to fight as we continue to support the people we have got.

If we don't, think of how much worse things will get. Really.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

6. Thank you.

I appreciate the civil discourse.

[MirrorAshes]

9. My pleasure. Wish there was more going around! n/t

[cloudbase]

14. Things getting worse might be needed.

People will really have to bleed before there's any real chance of change coming about.

[rpannier]

20. My problem with the putting them on notice and feet to the fire is that's been tried over and over

most of them don't care.
The only difference I see between then and now is, people are becoming dissatisfied with their representatives, rather than they hate everyone in congress except theirs.
If it means getting rid or Gohmert and both Kings, I'll take a full how cleaning.
That may sound scorched earth, but until the lunatics are purged not much is going to change
Also, maybe if there were enough new people in congress (that weren't self funded) there would be 1933 style investigations into the banks, finance and the government

[TheKentuckian]

22. Think of how much worse it will get if the shit we are getting is swallowed

Then an even more dubious and sold out Democrat or worse a TeaPubliKlan gets the levers and drives it all down to a new level of horrible and so on and so on.

No brakes on the entropy other than acceptance of ever more running from greater danger that we ever find ourselves copying supposedly to defeat them, which sounds like raw and uncut bullshit to me anyway because once you assimilate their policies and actions you are them. A rose (or a turd for that matter) by any other name and all that jazz.

[Salviati]

4. I'm very dissapointed with the democrats this week...

... But then again I was very disappointed with them last week, and I expect that I'll be disappointed with them next week too.

Frankly, given my political standing, and the standing of the "centrists" of the political class, I'd be very surprised if I wasn't disappointed with them for the rest of my life, but that's not going to keep me from enthusiastically supporting the few that I'm totally on board with, or supporting the any democrat who's got a shot at keeping a republican out of office, or better yet removing one from office.

The democrats may disappoint me too often, but the republicans scare me, as to how much they would damage this country in the addled teapublican state they're in now. I may be willing to admit that things may have to get worse before they get better, but I'll be damned if I can live with encouraging things to go to hell.

[MNBrewer]

10. Disappointed with Democrats

1. a constant state of emotion
2. a great band name.

[Skittles]

29. DWDWD

Driving While Disappointed With Democrats

[sibelian]

7. One day you and your fellow countrymen will hear a pithy sounding statment in a movie or TV show

and it WON'T lodge itself in your collective consciousnessness for all eternity as a piece of sturdy, pithy "wisdom", neither will it bend your thoughts around it all twisty and turny like iron filings round a magnet.

Yours, in great anticipation, etc.






(I am poking fun at you. I do not hate you. Yes, other countries do the same thing. No, not at ALL to the same extent, really, truly not.)


(I also like Game of Thrones.)

[MirrorAshes]

8. Hah.

Yes, I know it's a silly way to frame things. But it seemed... apropos.

[greenman3610]

11. ok, let's have the discussion about NSA

but bear in mind that the GOP will try to do create a redo of 2010 here, using
discontent within the Dems to create a "there's no difference I'll just stay home" dynamic in 2014. That would be a totally unnecessary disaster.

I did not see any of this fake press outrage when this spying started in the Bush era, and by the way we legalized torture and dropped the fourth amendment. Do not be mislead as to where this is coming from, and why.

[Herlong]

12. I get your point MirrorAshes, I'm not upset. I'm ready.

But sometimes we win. We ... our opponents. So my point being MirrorAshes, get the ... out there and let's get this done!


.... = fuck

[lumberjack_jeff]

13. What's the point of politics except to improve society? n/t

[MirrorAshes]

19. Simply preserving society is necessary as well

Think of all we'd lose if the republicans won the next 2 election cycles. It's terrifying.

[humbled_opinion]

16. Well to follow your analogy

If Bush was the Mad King does that make Obama Joffrey? (not quite as ruthless but terrible just the same)

[MirrorAshes]

18. Actually, no

There is no analogy. Just a reminder of the stakes.

[humbled_opinion]

24. It's already over or didn't you get the memo

The country has been led by corrupt individuals and is no longer a Country that abides by the rule of law.... Bush may have started it but Obama is just as guilty maybe more since he appears to have led a massive increase in all matters i.e., Gitmo torture has evolved into drone assassination.... TSA and DHS screening has become massively intrusive and created a destruction of privacy and now we have the final nail all information on phone, internet, or any media has been surreptitiously collected by a government led by a President that told all of us that he would restore honor to this country.....

HE HAS FAILED to live up to his own words and should be held accountable we are quickly becoming a world wide laughing stock...

[watoos]

17. Don't forget the corporate-controlled MSM controls the narrative.

Dems are not only fighting the cons they are fighting the MSM, and yes that includes msnbc. msnbc puts a liberal slant to the narrative, but they still talk about what the tower dwellers want to talk about. Every channel has pretty much the same storyline. Why isn't the MSM talking about job creation?
These "scandals" have been created to give the cons a platform to run on because they have accomplished nothing in the last 5 years. heck in the last 25 years for that matter.

[shcrane71]

26. What you say is true. Not since Watergate have we had a scandal that was a huge game changer.

Most Americans are so busy just trying to stay afloat that they a) don't have time and/or b) are too scared of the economic consequences for caring too much about political scandals.

Then I just heard a piece from a MSM journalist who said that most new journalist get their jobs after doing at least a six-month unpaid internship. Her point was to ask "who can afford four years of college and then 6 months of unpaid work?" Mostly, students from well-off backgrounds can afford unpaid internships; so, there's a class between our reporters and the population.

[JDPriestly]

27. Sorry. But this scandal was created by Obama.

He should have either been very open with the American people about everything that his NSA and other security agencies are doing or have ended the surreptitious surveillance. Either or.

If they must keep records on our personal lives, we should at the least have the right to see and question and correct what is in them. We have the right to confront our accusers. That's another Constitutional right. The Obama administration and at least the Bush administration before it have just tossed the Constitution and the Bill of Rights in the trash can.

I don't care if the Supreme Court in the past ruled that the government can obtain pen registers. I doubt the Supreme Courts making the decisions of that nature contemplated the blanket surveillance that the Obama and Bush administrations (and perhaps earlier administrations) have been doing.

This is a terrible waste of taxpayer money to begin with.

[LittleBlue]

28. The decision rests with Obama, not us

I still think we can win and win big if we stay true to our principles. If he continues his spy activities against Americans, all bets are off.

Don't forget, it's usually the swing voters that have the largest influence on the outcome of US elections, they aren't on DU. I really doubt they like being spied on.

[Egalitarian Thug]

32. Stay true? Democratic candidates and spokespeople can't/won't even list what they are. n/t

[LittleBlue]

33. Agreed. But I think the more focus is on issues like abortion rights

education, worker rights, etc. we win. On most domestic issues, we win big.

They win when the focus shifts to terrorism, and they certainly win when a Democratic president operates a spy program like PRISM. It's up to him whether he will risk the party's welfare for a program like PRISM.

[Fumesucker]

30. Rule 35: That which does not kill me has made a tactical error n/t

[Egalitarian Thug]

31. If the Democratic Party would allow a real liberal through, I'd vote for them.

But we know that isn't going to happen, so I really don't care who runs or wins. I'll write in or vote third party in the big races and vote local offices and issues, and I won't be alone.

[CakeGrrl]

34. Well, if

this "Obama = Bush" freakout causes people to stay home or vote 3rd party on principle, I guess the message from them is that they really don't care if there's a serious risk of seeing a RW sweep of the WH, Senate, and House.

But apparently, having that occur will not make things any worse than they are now. You won't be able to tell the difference between what this administration has accomplished versus what a RW president will do with his Tea-Party fueled House and rubberstamping RW Senate. Right?


Riiiiiiiight.