You're failing your country right now. Yes, you.

[Prism]

I took an immigrant friend to dinner earlier this evening in Berkeley, CA. He's been in America for two months. As we approached the restaurant, we saw a small crowd gathered along the street. They were middle-aged, fairly typical looking. They held up signs like "Tax the Rich," and "Hands off our Social Security." He was amused. He said he'd heard of Berkeley. As if it were a quaint side show.

It struck me a little bit. Who were they protesting to? Berkeley is a fairly liberal town. Are there very many who would drive along that would disagree with them? They stood on the road I commute to work on. I wouldn't really pay them any heed.

They stood there for at least two hours.

Who, exactly, were they helping? Who were they helping? They feel very strongly. They took out two or more hours out of their day to hold signs on a street. To what effect? What is being changed there? Minds? Most minds in East Bay are liberal.

There is useful vigor and useless vigor.

You can scream. You can shout. You can post on the internet. You can be upset.

But until the people in this country do something, we are coasting along towards the inevitable corporate state.

In this country, where the media behaves as it does, protesting is not doing anything. They ignored the Iraq war protests. They ignored millions in the streets with signs.

They ignored you.

The only answer is a strike. Not just you, everyone you know. If it's just you as "a statement" it is less nothing in this culture.

We're failing. What are you going to do about that? When is enough enough? If we can't rummage enough outrage in an authoritarian state that would mock 1984, are we a generation worth a shit?

[sibelian]

1. This is not going to go down well.

K+R

[cali]

5. self-rightheous and lecturing.... what? gee, who would think

that wouldn't go down well? and what exactly is the op suggesting?

[sibelian]

15. To be honest, I somewhat agree with Prism.

I think if you're going to take action it may as well be something that does something. To be sure, the criticism is a generalisation...

[reusrename]

2. Not that I disagree with anything you said, but there is more.

Our ability to organize is being thwarted by the most sophisticated system ever designed for such purpose. If they switched it off for a couple of weeks we would all be on the same side and the guillotines would be on display in the streets.

The problem becomes how to effect change without being able to organize. That's one reason why lone actors are so important. They keep hope alive. For a little while longer.

There should be no doubt in anyone's mind that as soon as the cost/benefit analysis confirms that a huge profit can be made from nuking us, they will nuke us. We are at that point right now, have been for years really. If Obama had not been elected it would have already happened.

They will not stop, they don't even understand why they should have to.

[Scootaloo]

3. American protest culture has been self-neutered

And of course it's verboten to lay out why that is on DU.

[cali]

4. what do you mean by a strike? exactly what are you proposing?

[Prism]

11. A general strike

Across all walks of life and industry

If we do not hang together, surely we will hang separately.

[Bluenorthwest]

27. We can hang together or separatly but apparently only after appitizers and a glass of wine...

What did you eat and drink? Where is your friend from that he sees democracy as quaint?

[msongs]

6. you went out to dinner. they took affirmative action. nt

[Iggo]

17. But he took his immigrant friend.

So that's like plus points, right?

[Chan790]

28. Purposeless action is wasted energy...and counterproductive.

What is the purpose of protesting for liberal economic action where the entirety of your audience agrees with you? It achieves nothing, you're reaching nobody to change their mind; it's being done to self-aggrandize and balm your own feelings that you're doing something...but you're not, you're doing nothing at-all. It's like handing out handbills entitled "Why Christians should support marriage equality!" at a pagan festival on Fire Island...who is such action really reaching to change hearts and minds? It's theatrics being put on to no effect for an audience of like-minded individuals for the purpose of salving the feelings of the protestors when people honk in support or give them a thumbs-up.

Worse, you're sucking life and energy out of other actions that could be helpful. Every jot of energy wasted on purposeless action that achieves nothing is not energy failing to be used to achieve something, it's energy that is blunting the impact of energy being used in purposeful action. Their "affirmative actions" would have done more if they'd dropped the signs, said "Fuck it!", went to dinner and recouped to start anew tomorrow by taking purposeful protest action that has measurable benchmarks and results in places where the capacity exists to change minds.

Take a fucking lesson from OWS. They wanted to protest the economic pillaging of the 1%, banks and Wall Street. Did they hold their protest in Williamsburg, Brooklyn to an audience of like-minded individuals? No. They took the fucking protest to Wall Street. If you want to protest economic disparity and revitalize the movement for economic justice...don't protest in Berkeley to like-minded rich individuals whose support is vocal as long as they're not being asked to contribute. No. Take your goddamned protest to the poor areas of Oakland and use it to organize the poor to take back their economic justice or take your protest to the capital-grounds in Sac'mo in the view of your lawmakers and the media so that you may give voice or take your protest to the doorstep of your oppressors so they can hear you and know you're there.

Calling what these idjits did on the side of the street "action" is an embarrassment to the memory of activist leaders like Mother Jones, Steve Biko, Martin Luther King Jr. and Saul Alinsky.

[Prism]

33. You said it all

Thank you.

[Lizzie Poppet]

29. "Affirmative action?"

Wouldn't that imply that their protest actually accomplished something other than make themselves feel good?

[Unknown Beatle]

7. It only takes a pebble

to cause a ripple in a large lake.

[demwing]

8. The lone voices of protest, raging against the machine, are useless?

Well, so says a lone voice of protest from across the internet, raging against the machine..

"You can scream. You can shout. You can post on the internet. You can be upset. But until the people in this country do something, we are coasting along towards the inevitable corporate state."

.

[cantbeserious]

9. Thank You For Sharing

eom

[Quantess]

10. What do you suggest? (no text)

[GeorgeGist]

12. Ahem ...

I think you need to wake up.

The corporate state is here.

[MsLeopard]

20. Indeed

It's been here for a long time now.

[Earth_First]

13. You went to dinner; then posted on the internet about it...

These folks took time out of their day; maybe sacrificing their own plans to take on the establishment in the only real way we have left; our voices.

Perhaps its time that YOU lead the next big thing...

[Lizzie Poppet]

30. The "only real way we have left?" Ironic, given your nick.

Not that I'm advocating anything more substantive, you understand. Against the rules, and all that...

[Earth_First]

49. Ironic?

How's that...

[reformist2]

14. Protests work if the end result is a candidate that supports you. If the election process is rigged,

and you can't even get a candidate that shares your views, then the OP is right. Only a strike against the government will have any real impact.

[kelliekat44]

18. Not a strike against government which is some people's only means of survival. A strike against

corporate America is what is needed. A hit in the boardroom, and obscene profits.

[Progressive dog]

16. You should organize these people to do something productive.

Since they don't get enough money to live on because of the "authoritarian" state, they should hold signs against the NSA,CIA, or whomever you think. They could travel to other places, since they're all liberal in Berkeley anyway. Oh wait, they don't have enough money to stay in one place, bad idea.

You may not believe this but some of us aren't making overthrow of the "authoritarian" government of the USA a major priority.

[99Forever]

19. Everyone is a critic.

"They" were already doing more than you were.

So what's your plan, Stan?

[nolabels]

32. My plan is to not to have a plan

I like critics and protesters, l like people who say what is the use and why do i waste my time. It's not a crime to be apathetic. Getting mad or sad because it seems nothing can be done is also doing something. And if you really want to understand what a crazy person like me thinks about it, i would say "it's your thing, do what ya goin to do"


Inherently like a flock birds that often don't seem to have a clear leader yet all understanding of the direction to go, we will know the way when we see it.

[MineralMan]

21. Hmm...and what were you doing?

Having dinner out with a friend. What are you going to do about what you're talking about?

See, there's a bit of a disconnect here. You're complaining about some people protesting while you're enjoying a meal in a restaurant. That's why some people aren't taking you that seriously about this.

The people protesting were doing something. At that moment. Now, what they were doing might not affect conditions, but they were out there doing something. You were having your dinner.

[geek tragedy]

22. Another armchair revolutionary castigates others from behind his keyboard, nt

[MineralMan]

23. While dining out and watching people protest.

Uff da...

[geek tragedy]

24. I'd say fee da. nt

[MineralMan]

25. Yah...but not ish da.

[Prism]

34. You're kind of the problem.

"Armchair revolutionary."

Dude, I work in social services. I'm down in the trenches. I wanted to highlight how pointless self-contained, to-the-choir protest is.

But hey, at least the "ex" freeper agrees with you.

[geek tragedy]

35. So does my wife. She doesn't tell other people that they're part of the problem

because they go to work.

[Bluenorthwest]

26. I'd say they did more than order a nice dinner.

Your friend is new to the US, yet you support his notion that protest and democracy is 'quaint' while you both wallow in food served to you by immigrants from other 'quaint' countries.
If you two left a decent tip, then you did something for others that night other than whine. Did you tip at all? Or is that too 'quaint' for your friend from some mystery country that is super perfect yet he has to come here for work? Does he think of his paycheck as 'quaint'?

[Prism]

36. You're also part of the problem

Seriously, look at your assumptions here. My friend is Filipino, and after we saw the protesters he discussed how the disadvantaged have representation in their country vs our gerrymandered shit. (I don't know enough about the Phillipines to know if what he was saying is true, but his point about our fixed, pay to play system was spot on).

Second, you assume immigrants in a restaurant. So that's a nice bit of stereotyping. Jesus.

And third. I tipped 20%, which is my base tip.

Did you want to have a discussion, or were you content with being erroneously nasty based on your non-knowledge of us?

[Apophis]

31. The protestors are doing more than you are.

[Prism]

38. Do you know me?

Well?

[Apophis]

41. Don't need to know you.

Your post shows how ugly you are.

[Prism]

42. So you are working on no knowledge

But you feel free to assume and judge and get nasty.

Yeah. See?

[Apophis]

43. You're saying protestors are wasting their time and you come here to bitch about it.

I hope you tipped your waitstaff well.

[Prism]

45. Why wouldn't I?

Again, this is odd to me. I went to get dinner, and the responses are as if I was out yachting.

[Starry Messenger]

37. Well, it bothered you enough to post about it.

That's a result.

[Prism]

39. Fair enough

But you know Berkeley.

Do you think signs on Solano was an effective use of time?

[Starry Messenger]

40. I'd wager that holding up signs in West Oakland would be a waste of time.

Folks down there already know what the problem is.

I'd like to address your thoughts on the General Strike issue. Last week we saw the BART strike, which was not really enormously popular with the Bay Area public, since the media frenzy whipped up anger over lies about what the workers there made.

In order to bring about the kind of mass strike of the kind you are talking about, you need to do an amount of work before-hand to get lots of people on board. The last strike of this kind in the Bay Area was in 1934. LaborFest is this month in San Francisco, so if you have time you might like to check out the history on what this cost in terms of human effort. http://www.laborfest.net/2013/2013schedule.htm

I don't know what organization the sign-holders belong to, it could be that it was simply a few people who seemed like they were out there wasting their time and yours. But I know from holding a sign or two on my own, that the act of doing this in public is very different than simply posting on the web.

For you, perhaps this effort did nothing. But for others who read the signs, perhaps it did something else.

[Prism]

44. Thanks for the information

I will definitely check it out.

The sign holders seemed self-motivated. And they didn't inconvenience me in the slightest. But knowing what I do know of the problems of the disadvantaged in East Bay, it bothered me a bit. A sign saying "Tax the Rich" is nice and all that. But four blocks over, there are people begging outside of the Safeway for basic necessities. Every other bumper sticker in Berkeley says tax the rich. It's not exactly a radical statement in these parts. (Although, maybe it is given house prices out here).

Had they been outside of a Bart station, hell yeah, go for it. Protest and action to go with it. But hanging out with your friends in lawn chairs sipping drinks on Solano? That's just masturbatory, IMHO.

[HappyMe]

46. Isn't that pretty much the same as posting here?

Preaching to the choir and stuff.

I don't tend to bad mouth protesters. If you don't approve of what and where they were protesting, start up your own band of protesters.

[Starry Messenger]

47. Then people would just say they are bothering working people

who are just trying to get through their day making a living and travel on BART. There's always a reason for not wanting protesters somewhere.

I have a friend who works in social services who has gone to protests with me too. There are different purposes for each action. It's hard to say what the sign-holders do when they are not out protesting.

If everyone agreed with the idea to tax the rich, we'd be doing more of it and often. Housing prices are rising out on the Peninsula too, and I've had people give me shit for keeping my Yes on 30 sticker on my car because they think they deserve lower taxes. Not everyone agrees with this statement even in the progressive parts of the Bay Area.

Taking a step to hold a sign up in public takes a mental shift. It leads to other forms of action too, but the sign-holding can definitely be part of it.

[Taverner]

48. Ahhhh Berkeley. Dog I love that city...

But yeah, a lot of it ends up being just running around in circles

"I'm against picketing, but I don't know how to show it." --Mitch Hedberg