Welcome to DU! The truly grassroots left-of-center political community where regular people, not algorithms, drive the discussions and set the standards. Join the community: Create a free account Support DU (and get rid of ads!): Become a Star Member Latest Breaking News General Discussion The DU Lounge All Forums Issue Forums Culture Forums Alliance Forums Region Forums Support Forums Help & Search

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 04:12 AM Jul 2013

Anyone remember Echelon? NSA surveillance on Americans is probably older than you think

Now I praise that there is finally a discussion in the media about this, but NSA surveillance on communications (including Americans) looks to be pretty old. I mean way before the George W. Bush Administration.

Anyone remember Echelon?

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1332199/Spy-network-reading-personal-emails.html

Spy network 'reading personal emails'
12:00AM BST 30 May 2001
COMPUTER users were urged to encrypt their emails yesterday in an attempt to protect themselves against an electronic spy network which does not officially exist.
The danger comes from the Anglo-American "Echelon" intelligence operation, according to a report by the European Parliament at the end of a year-long inquiry. The MEPs have been investigating allegations that the spy system is being used to gather sensitive industrial secrets from Europe and pass them to British or American rivals.
Their report says that in the process of industrial spying, Echelon is eavesdropping on millions of daily communications between ordinary people. It also warns the Government that Britain could be in breach of the European Convention on Human Rights because of its participation in the spying operation. The United States flatly denies that Echelon exists.
But a Foreign Office spokesman said: "Interception of communications is a vital tool in countering the risks posed by a number of dangers to society. That includes terrorists, international drug dealers, criminals and those who would like to proliferate weapons of mass destruction. We have always made it clear that the civil rights of EU citizens are not jeopardised by legally endorsed interception as practised in the UK."
The Echelon operation is based at Fort Meade in Maryland, and at GCHQ in Cheltenham. It was set up in 1948 by the United States, Britain, Canada, New Zealand and Australia, and was active throughout the Cold War as a vast electronic eavesdropper, able to interpret information from telephones, faxes or computers - even tracking bank accounts.



From http://whatreallyhappened.com/RANCHO/POLITICS/ECHELON/echelon.html

"Rumors have abounded for several years of a massive system designed to intercept virtually all email and fax traffic in the world and subject it to automated analysis, despite laws in many nations (including this one) barring such activity. The laws were circumvented by a mutual pact among five nations. It's illegal for the United States to spy on it's citizens. Likewise the same for Great Britain. But under the terms of the UKUSA agreement, Britain spies on Americans and America spies on British citizens and the two groups trade data. Technically, it may be legal, but the intent to evade the spirit of the laws protecting the citizens of those two nations is clear.

The system is called ECHELON, and had been rumored to be in development since 1947, the result of the UKUSA treaty signed by the governments of the United States, the United Kingdom, Canada, Australia and New Zealand.

The purpose of the UKUSA agreement was to create a single vast global intelligence organization sharing common goals and a common agenda, spying on the world and sharing the data. The uniformity of operation is such that NSA operatives from Fort Meade could work from Menwith Hill to intercept local communications without either nation having to formally approve or disclose the interception.


More on the UKUSA Agreement: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UKUSA_Agreement



http://www.historycommons.org/context.jsp?item=civilliberties_213#civilliberties_213

"April, 1988: Senator Thurmond Monitored by Echelon

Former Lockheed software manager Margaret Newsham, who worked at the Menwith Hill facility of the NSA’s Echelon satellite surveillance operation in 1979, says she heard a real-time phone intercept of conversations involving senator Strom Thurmond (R-SC). She was shocked, she recalls, because she thought only foreign communications were being monitored. Newsham, who was fired from Lockheed after she filed a whistleblower lawsuit alleging fraud and waste, tells the chairman of the House Intelligence Committee, Louis Stokes (D-OH), of the overheard conversations. In July, Capital Hill staffers will leak the story to the Cleveland Plain Dealer. Thurmond says he doesn’t believe Newsham’s story, but his office admits that it has previously received reports that Thurmond had been a target of NSA surveillance. Thurmond will decline to press for an investigation, and the reason for the surveillance has never been revealed."


More on Margaret Newsham: http://www.mail-archive.com/kominform@lists.eunet.fi/msg00493.html (copy and paste the whole url)


And from December 16, 1997, from a London Telegraph article (original article unavailable) http://uts.cc.utexas.edu/~wbova/fn/gov/echelon2.htm

"A GLOBAL electronic spy network that can eavesdrop on every telephone, email and telex communication around the world will be officially acknowledged for the first time in a European Commission report to be delivered this week.

The report - Assessing the Technologies of Political Control - was commissioned last year by the Civil Liberties Committee of the European Parliament. It contains details of a network of American-controlled intelligence stations on British soil and around the world, that "routinely and indiscriminately" monitors countless phone, fax and email messages."

...

"For more than a decade, former agents of US, British, Canadian and New Zealand national security agencies have claimed that the monitoring of electronic communications has become endemic throughout the world. Rumors have circulated that new technologies have been developed which have the capability to search most of the world's telex, fax and email networks for "key words". Phone calls, they claim, can be automatically analyzed for key words.

Former signals intelligence operatives have claimed that spy bases controlled by America have the ability to search nearly all data communications for key words. They claim that ECHELON automatically analyses most email messaging for "precursor" data which assists intelligence agencies to determine targets. According to former Canadian Security Establishment agent Mike Frost, a voice recognition system called Oratory has been used for some years to intercept diplomatic calls."

15 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
Highlight: NoneDon't highlight anything 5 newestHighlight 5 most recent replies

okaawhatever

(9,462 posts)
1. They wrote a book about it in the mid 90''s. None of what Snowden is revealing
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 05:09 AM
Jul 2013

is new. It's all been reported on, but in a manner that just describes what something does. Not all the hype that came with it. I've learned nothing new. I still want additional protections, but we're in a much better place in terms of oversight and laws than we were in the Bush years.

Democracyinkind

(4,015 posts)
2. Echelon supposedly was/is satellite based.
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 05:47 AM
Jul 2013

Prism is not.

It is the same kind of activity, but there is a difference. Just pointing that out.

AZ Progressive

(3,411 posts)
13. Time probably repeats itself
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 11:33 AM
Jul 2013

There was another whistleblower a few years ago. The difference is that now the media finally has publicized the surveillance network. Is it because the media is keen to attack Obama? I dunno, but the behavior of the Obama Administration is not helping.


Past NSA Whistleblowers:

Bill Benney and J. Kirk Wiebe

Thomas Drake

Mark Klein (who worked as an AT&T Technician but helped to build Room 641A)

TexasProgresive

(12,157 posts)
3. I always assumed the NSA
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 06:18 AM
Jul 2013

was into everybodies knickers. It was just too secret an organization. What let the pig out of the poke was using contract employees.

Edited to add- not that I approve of NSA tactics.

 

fasttense

(17,301 posts)
4. So why is the administration trying to torture, I mean, capture and prosecute Snowden?
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 06:47 AM
Jul 2013

If all he is doing is confirming what everybody already knew, then what harm is there in him releasing documents that confirm this? If it has already been reported on, then the terrorist knew already. His revelations would have very little impact on any real purpose for all the secrecy.

So why were charges filed against him, why was his visa revoked and why are Americans trying to prevent him from gaining sanctuary in another country? Seems to me the Obama administration is making much to do about nothing by trying to capture and prosecute Snowden for his whistle blowing.

bemildred

(90,061 posts)
6. The disobedient must be punished as a warning to the rest.
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 07:58 AM
Jul 2013

These guys think at a 6th grade schoolyard level, it's all about protecting your social status. That is why they move heaven and earth when their ass is on the line (Snowden), but do nothing when it's not (Iraq and a long list of other wars).

treestar

(82,383 posts)
7. Because when you have a security clearance it is against the law to reveal the information
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 08:01 AM
Jul 2013

Answering to those charges is not "torture." Why do you have to exaggerate to that extent to get any sympathy for Snowden?

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
8. Yes...you sign on the dotted line...and he also appears to have govt equipment
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 10:17 AM
Jul 2013

Documents are also considered intellectual property these days in the IT field..private companies will and can sue and prosecute persons taking documents they are not supposed to..

treestar

(82,383 posts)
9. There's probably some civil suit out there
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 10:21 AM
Jul 2013

I wonder if some posters wouldn't call the defendant subject to "torture." Or "financial terrorism." It gets silly sometimes.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
10. Thank you!
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 10:42 AM
Jul 2013

People sign an agreement or contract or whatever which specifies what's expected of them, and what penalties could result if the person violates the contract.

OK, so Snowden felt it was crucial to let certain things be known.

I wonder how long, if at all, he actually sat and thought about the possible consequences of his actions...

He either didn't give it a moment's thought, or he did, and, like a coward, decided to run away from the consequences he must have known he would have to face.

OK, I can understand wanting to disclose illegal activities. But that doesn't give someone a free pass when he's signed a contract stating that he knows what could happen if he breaks confidentiality.

HipChick

(25,485 posts)
11. Exactly and I don't know folks are acting so brand new..
Tue Jul 9, 2013, 11:00 AM
Jul 2013

He started his job with the intent to defraud....but is a coward when facing the results of his actions...
Latest Discussions»General Discussion»Anyone remember Echelon? ...