Once Again, A Democratic President Cuts a Republican Deficit. Almost No One Notices.

[riqster]

http://bluntandcranky.wordpress.com/2013/07/09/once-again-a-democratic-president-cuts-a-republican-deficit-almost-no-one-notices/

Thanks to Babylonsister for posting this: IMNSHO, it bears repeating and reblogging.: ?w=300&h=225

More at the link above, including a hyperlink to a fantastic source of data on deficits and the national debt. Useful for verbally cudgeling wingnuts.

[RC]

1. Ever notice, with some people, when something good happens

Obama did it, but when something good does not happen, it is Congresses fault?

Me too.

Too bad the good times are not trickling down to the people who need it the most. Wall Street is doing very well, Main Street, not so much, as wages continue to stagnate.

[tridim]

3. Main street in my average city is thriving.

I have my pick of good jobs... As do the less skilled folks.

The job market hasn't been this good since 1999.

Ever notice some people don't give Obama credit for anything? RC?

[RC]

7. Maybe the job market, but the pay scale sucks bowling balls now.

Where are the Living Wage Jobs that were to be had in 1999, that do not exist now? Why do so many people work two and sometimes more jobs, with little or no benefits, to make ends meet. Why are so many college graduates unable to find work in their chosen field? Why do we find middle age adults doing jobs that teenagers used to do? You know, like working in fast food place and stocking shelves.

[tridim]

8. I'm making good money for the first time since 1999.

You're wrong.

[RC]

20. Well excuse me. One good example negates the rest of the evidence.

Good to know.

[tridim]

25. It's not just me.

The national unemployment numbers are FALLING for EVERYONE, and have been for years. That's a fact.

You are wrong.

[eilen]

56. Isn't Unemployment at 7.4%?

not like 1999 at all.

[AgingAmerican]

103. Wages are falling at a record pace this year

n/t

[friendlyFRIEND]

121. UE falling while numbers of part time

and "service industry" jobs is skyrocketing.

Take 100 engineers and have 50 quit the job market and the other 50 go work at Wal Mart. Recovery, woohoo!

[AgingAmerican]

95. Wages are falling at record pace in the USA

U.S. Suffers Biggest Pay Drop On Record, As Workers Squeezed Tighter

The economic "recovery" just keeps getting worse for the average worker: U.S. employers squeezed their employees even harder than usual in the first quarter, leading to the biggest drop in hourly pay on record.

Hourly pay for nonfarm workers fell at a 3.8 percent annualized rate in the first quarter, the Bureau of Labor Statistics reported on Wednesday. This was the biggest quarterly decline since the BLS started keeping track in 1947. Some of the drop was payback for a 9.9 percent surge in hourly pay in the fourth quarter of 2012, as employers shoveled money out the door to avoid tax changes they expected to take place in 2013.

More here...

[riqster]

18. That is a generalized MSM observation which has somehow become "common knowledge" by repetition.

However, it is neither fair nor true.

Obama is not continuing from the Clinton years, but cleaning up after the disaster of the Bush Occupation.

Some of us are doing well, some not, but anyone who wants to compare this economy with that of 2008 and claim it's not better today is utterly, totally, and completely off their proverbial rocker.

[RC]

22. But compared to 1999, in post I responded to, the economy and the job market is still nowhere close.

[riqster]

37. True. But Obama isn't starting from 1999.

He's starting from 2008. 1999 is an invalid comparison.

[RC]

69. I am starting with 1999, because 1999 is a valid comparison.

1999 was closer to the top of the hill. 2008 was near the bottom, so yeah, starting with 2008 does make Obama look better.
People need to pull back and look at the larger picture. We have a long way to go just catch up. We aren't really doing that. Don't believe all the propaganda our "liberal media" and our government, who has our "best interest at heart", are feeding us.

[riqster]

72. 1999 is NOT a valid comparison in this context.

The topic was not "The economy is perfect and all the pretty rainbow ponies are pooping sparkly butterflies"; the topic was "Obama has cut the Bush Deficit by over 50%".

Instead of addressing that topic, you've chosen to argue a different one, which makes your argument invalid at the outset.

If you want to argue that the economy still has a long way to go (which is quite true), perhaps you should start your own thread about that, instead if trying to hijack this one with your illogical and invalid tactics.

(Yes, that was snarky of me.)

[HiPointDem]

110. the poster compared it to 1999. and he's *wrong*.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023206703#post3

Unemployment is now at the same level it was at the *height* of the 1992 recession. It was better than this every year since, until 2008. It's five years since 2008 & it's still at recessionary levels, with declining wages & increased labor insecurity (more part-time & temp jobs, fewer full-time benefited).

And TPP is going to make that *worse*.

[Igel]

109. In this thread, Obama's starting in 10/2009.

He's not starting from the day he took office. Every cent from that fiscal year is Bush II's, even if he wasn't in office but for 4 months of that fiscal year.

There's the two tranches of TARP, both authorized and spent by Bush II. There was Bush II's bail out of GM and his most excellent way of "saving" Chrysler by offshoring its ownership to Fiat.

There's the spending bill that Bush II kept spending to veto, saying it reflected the Democrats' and not his own budget priorities--until he signed it a month after Obama's inauguration.

And there's the Bush II stimulus, with all the shovel-ready projects and green initiatives that was passed the month after Bush II left office.

What? Obama authorized and spent the second half of TARP, as Pelosi personally confirmed? It was Obama that presided over the GM bail out?

Obama signed the omnibus spending bill in February or March 2009, saying it was old business and they had to move on to more pressing matters?

It's was Obama's stimulus that spent nearly $900 billion to save the economy?

Say it ain't so. Because the OP says it ain't so. All that spending was authorized by Bush II, apparently.

And we fret over 1999 as a comparison year?

[dothemath]

73. 8 years wrecking the economy ...............

1999? The Bush criminal enterprise spent 8 years wrecking the economy. Everyone knows another repub admin. in 2009 would have brought back the good times overnight. Yeah, right.

[HiPointDem]

113. 5 years after the reagan & clinton recessions, UE was back to normal range.

5 years after the bush recession we are still at recessionary UE levels, & at the rate jobs are being created we won't even make up the jobs that were lost until the end of the decade.

[questionseverything]

147. 6 million manufacturing jobs left

near the end of bush's term and those jobs are never coming back

we are replacing them with service jobs(think min wage)

[HiPointDem]

162. how many manufacturing jobs do you think left under reagan? regardless, UE was back within

normal range 5 years after the recession.

[questionseverything]

176. high point of manufacturing about 20 mill in 79

now at about 11.8 mill..so in general terms 12 mill plus the 6 mill we lost under bush from 79 to present we lost about 2 mill manufacturing jobs besides the bush years

anyway i dont understand your point,are you saying current pres is bad because the ue has not corrected? cause i dont think we can blame that on him when all the "fair trade agreements " previously cost those 6 mill jobs lost////now if you are saying the NEW trade deals are on current pres i completely agree with that

my original post about the 6 million manufacturing jobs lost was to help explain why ue has not corrected(and probably wont)

[HiPointDem]

179. i'm saying that lsoing manufacturing jobs isn't an excuse for no labor recovery.

and i'll add, if people can't even have a hope of getting a job secure enough to support themselves and their dependents, what the fuck is the use of "the united states of america"?

the ability to support oneself and ones own is fundamental.

[questionseverything]

180. i was not making excuses

i was adding what i believe is a huge part of the reason

[HiPointDem]

181. and i was offering reagan (several million manufacturing jobs lost in a smaller economy) as a kind

of counterexample.

the reagan recession was devastating. it destroyed the economy of my small town, which was dependent on mills and manufacturing.

despite that, employment was within normal range 5 years on.

I don't buy "Bush had 8 years to wreck the economy, how do you expect it to be fixed in any less?"

If what Bush did was simply 'wrecking' (rather than a deliberate plan of the entire ruling class, not just bush doing something on his own or for a small clique), it could be 'fixed' in 5 years.

It's because it's bigger than Bush that it's not.

[questionseverything]

183. a deliberate plan of the entire ruling class

bingo

i think we agree and evidently i am not communicating well

[obama2terms]

155. I don't get it

How people don't seem to understand that the president's first year in his first term is not his budget. Like if Romney won in 2012 this whole year would be BO's budget.

[progressoid]

104. Low wage jobs are dominating the U.S. recovery

Low wage jobs are dominating the U.S. recovery
http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/wonkblog/wp/2012/08/31/low-wage-jobs-are-dominating-the-u-s-recovery/





Earnings of the top 1.0 percent rebound strongly in the recovery
http://www.epi.org/publication/ib347-earnings-top-one-percent-rebound-strongly/

As the stock market regained its value in the recovery, one would expect the top 1.0 percent to fare better than other workers—and they have, with annual wages growing 8.2 percent from 2009 to 2011 (the S&P grew 37.4 percent over this period). As the recovery continues and the stock market sustains its growth, the top 1.0 percent of wage earners are likely to quickly recoup all of the ground lost in the downturn.

In contrast, annual wages of the bottom 90 percent of earners eroded by 0.6 percent in the downturn—and by a further 1.2 percent in the 2009–2011 recovery. This is not surprising given the persistently high unemployment over this period. Meanwhile, high-wage earners from the 90th to the 99th percentile enjoyed wage growth in the recovery—and are the only wage earners to have higher wages in 2011 than in 2007.

[riqster]

105. And this is relevant to the OP...how?

Unless you want to divert attention from the rare bit of good news by changing the subject to another problem, I fail to see how this is relevant. Perhaps you should start an OP so as to give this information the attention it deserves.

Thereby NOT crapping on the Prexy and the bits of progress he has been able to make in spite of obstruction from the Right and Left.

[progressoid]

111. Just posting facts in response to tridim's anecdotal statement about job recovery.

It's like this is a discussion board or something.

[riqster]

117. Point taken. Thanks.

[HiPointDem]

108. BULLSHIT.

Unemployment rate:

[riqster]

12. A lot depends on where you are.

In Columbus, Ohio, things are doing very well, in spite of the Reep attempts to f*** things up. Wages going up and so on. "Main Street" is doing well here.

Yeah, the 1% need their wings clipped, but remember that Obama has already jacked their taxes by more than anyone since Clinton. If we can retake the House and add some more Senators in 2014, we can make more progress towards tax equity.

[tridim]

16. Kansas City too.

Average cities are coming back, despite 100% Republican obstruction and despite RC's poo-poo'ing of good news.

[RC]

26. Apparently you don't notice the people on street corners, with cardboard signs and the

sleeping bags, back packs and shopping carts under the bridges. Those people are not camping out in the nice weather.
Yes, this is in Kansas City.


There is someone in there.

[tridim]

28. I made no claim that Obama ended homelessness.

He has rescued this country from a second great depression cause by Republicans and created millions of jobs despite 100% republican and RC obstruction.

But again, that's just a fact. I know you don't care.

[Sheepshank]

39. and here you are with your anecdotal evidence

the very thing you crapped all over someone else about.

Nice example of hypocrisy.

[RC]

64. What are you talking about?

Please explain.

BTY, I took those pictures. I saw that first hand. Nothing anecdotal about it.


Taken by the J.C. Nichols Fountain

[stonecutter357]

66. Did

Did you help?

[bhikkhu]

70. Link to some information

http://portal.hud.gov/hudportal/HUD?src=/press/press_releases_media_advisories/2012/HUDNo.12-191

Worth reading.

[Sheepshank]

74. seriously, you didn't just crap all over another poster

for giving their own personal example of the positive things that are happening to them....then turn around and give your own personal example of how things are bad?

You really don't see the hypocritial stand you just took?

Now that's pretty funny.

[RC]

77. You gotta be kidding me.

I can't disagree with someone and post my own picture proof of what I personally saw? That is hypocritical now? just

[Sheepshank]

79. good gawd...don't you have a scroll key?

look at post #7 and your response in post #8.

If you want to use your anecdotal evidence, you should have the decency of letting others do the same without trying to shut down that line of discussion.

[HiPointDem]

115. The national UE average doesn't depend on where you are. And it's that number which is used

to make historical comparisons.

You're just wrong.

[truebluegreen]

154. Wages have to go up a LONG way to make up for 30+ years

of stagnation--and that's what we should really be talking about.

[Sheepshank]

36. Ever notice how when there is ever any good Obama news

someone tries to crap on the thread?

Economic policies are implementd and despite obstruction they are working.

[riqster]

40. Yep.

The Extreme Left and Extreme Right both despise Obama. The fact is, he's done a good job overall, digging us out of the very deep hole the illegal and invalid Bush Administration dug for us.

But since he's neither Hard Left nor Hard Right, some people will never be pleased.

[Sheepshank]

48. Yep.

I heartily agree.

They tend to come across as petulant spoiled kids.....no thought whatsoever for the other guy.

[riqster]

53. Good analogy

No matter what they get, it's never good enough. "Spoiled kids" indeed.

[treestar]

131. Maybe they know who is responsible for what?

[awoke_in_2003]

156. I, for one...

will give him credit for this. And I am, what some may call, a critic.

[tridim]

2. Obviously it's just the delayed effects of BushCo's glorious economic program.

Rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat.... Eh Republican voters?

[SidDithers]

4. DU rec...

but haters gonna hate.

Sid

[cali]

5. Off to the greatest. this is something that President Obama deserves credit for.

[Katashi_itto]

10. Agree

[tridim]

13. Careful, you're gonna lose all your shoutout fans with that attitude. nt

[cali]

19. I could give a hot damn.

I say what I think. I don't buy my ideas wholesale. And most of my "shout out fans" are all to aware of that.

[tridim]

24. That's super.

[bullwinkle428]

27. Perhaps this should be directed at the guy that accused cali

of being a Romney supporter this morning.

[riqster]

43. DaFuq??? Really?

Cali and I disagree frequently, but that is an absurd accusation.

[JoePhilly]

9. For some, this is bad news.

I'm sure they'll be here to explain why anytime now.

[treestar]

133. Obama bad!

If it's good, there's no way Obama gets any credit! It was - umm, it was because of Bernie Sanders and Elizabeth Warren!

[JoePhilly]

135. Lol

[malaise]

11. K & R

What I do notice is that ReTHUGs are no longer talking about deficits and neither are the hacks at M$Greedia.

[riqster]

119. Which is why we must bring it up, and expose the double standard.

[malaise]

122. +1,000

[1StrongBlackMan]

138. They don't have to ...

There are plenty of Democrats out there to explain why what is isn't.

[NRaleighLiberal]

14. Kick and rec....n/t

[kentuck]

15. But, to be accurate...

The $1.4 trillion deficit of GWB included the $700 billion TARP bailout. But, this has to be one of the biggest accomplishments of the Obama Administration. We were pulled from the precipice of another great depression.

[riqster]

21. ^^^THIS^^^^

"We were pulled from the precipice of another great depression."

[Sheepshank]

42. and to be further fair...that same $700B deficit/bill was handed to Obama

who was required to include that in his pay down. It's not like that n=money suddenly wasn't part of what Obama had to deal with. btw $350B was given out under Bush, $350B under Obama.

Nice fail.

[riqster]

50. Plus putting the Iraq and Afghanistan wars on the books.

The Bushies excluded them from their deficit numbers. Obama made it more transparent.

[Sheepshank]

51. of course.....makes it even a bigger deal doesn't it? n/t

[SunSeeker]

59. THANK YOU!!

Everyone ignores that huge fact. Pisses me off to no end. The Iraq war was Bush's biggest, costliest mess, and Bush didn't even put it on the books. Fucking bastard. So when Obama finally puts it on the books, do people get angry at Bush for exploding the deficit? No, they get angry at OBAMA for exploding the deficit. And when Obama cuts that fucking Bush deficit in half, even DUers poo poo or ignore it.

[Politicub]

125. I'm going to join you

DU is turning (or has turned) cray cray .

[riqster]

142. Bloody Barking Mad.

They buy the Right-Wing talking points when it suits their Anti-Obama preconceptions, and then spread the lies outside of Foxverse.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

46. The bailout was necessary for Bush's wars and economic policies and lax regulation. To be accurate.

The TARP bailout is part of the Bush deficit.

Agreed: Obama was instrumental in turning an impending depression into only a recession.

[kentuck]

54. All true.

But only time and history will validate this great achievement.

[Igel]

114. And a small increase it was.

Which is a problem. Disbursements count as part of the 2009 deficit. You spend $500 billion of TARP, you get $500 billion in deficits.

But much of the TARP money was repaid in 2010 and 2011, so that a small amount (less than the amount of this year's sequester) remains outstanding. That wasn't used to reduce the amount of the 2009 deficit.

That was used to reduce the amount of the deficit in 2010 and 2011. Spend $500 billion in 2009, it goes on Bush II's tab.

Banks and others repay $250 billion in 2010, that's deficit reduction under Obama's watch.

It's funny bookkeeping, but when you carry accounts across multiple years you're pretty much stuck with it and just need to put in a footnote that the money was repaid and note where it was expensed and were it was credited. But who reads footnotes?

In fact, discounting TARP all by itself would reduce the deficit for 2009 quite a bit. Then there's the question of the nearly as large deficits in 2010 and 2011, which didn't have the one-time TARP spending and where the TARP repayments were posted. Ick.

[Andy823]

17. K&R nt

[Egalitarian Thug]

23. But wait, I thought he was helpless in the face of mean old republicans and that's why

we can't get anything done to help Main Street.

[Recursion]

34. The fiscal aspects of this are something he specifically wrung out of Boehner in negotiations

The economic aspects are just the President getting credit or blame for economic growth, which never makes any sense but always seems to happen.

[treestar]

136. There's a difference between being helpless and having

to make deals with them. This kind of black and white thinking and exaggeration is not part of an intelligent debate.

[Laelth]

29. Yes, but I have no interest in cutting the defecit.

In a recession, the government should spend more, not less.

Am I supposed to give this Democratic President credit for enacting Republican policy (i.e. defecit reduction)? If you think so, you are barking up the wrong tree.

-Laelth

[magellan]

44. +1

Deficit cuts have been a wrecking ball aimed at poor and middle class Americans and the jobs, services and programs they rely on.

[AlbertCat]

47. Ding Ding Ding!!!!

We have a winner!

Deficit reduction is the LEAST of our problems.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

49. Wrong take. Yes, austerity fails now. No, Obama is not enacting austerity: GOP is.

The GOP sequestration and obstruction and sabotage is hindering the economy.

[eilen]

62. Is it not the sequestration, obstruction and lack of economic stimulus

actually decreasing the deficit in question? I don't think Obama wants credit for that. Yes, the deficit is reducing but at what cost? I will be shocked if the student loan interest is lowered. I don't think they can agree on that and pass it. That will also help "decrease the deficit."

[riqster]

88. No, sequestration is responsible for far less than a third of the reduction.

It's mostly due to the economic recovery and, to a lesser extent, tax hikes on the top brackets.

[Dawgs]

58. Thank you. Why some are celebrating the victories that Republicans got is astounding. n/t

[SunSeeker]

65. if we don't celebrate that the deficit is under control...

the Republican meme to the contrary goes unchallenged. And that is the meme they use to stop increased spending on social programs and infrastructure. That DUers assist the GOP in their anti-Obama propaganda is what is astonishing.

[magellan]

86. Destroying a bs meme is a poor excuse for applauding cuts that have done so much harm

Maybe if the Dems talked about that rather than slapping themselves on the backs and pointing to weak signs of growth, the bs meme would implode on itself. As it is, most struggling Americans see no cause for celebration and no one representing their concerns.

[SunSeeker]

91. No one is applauding the harmful cuts. We're trying to stop more cuts.

By pointing out that we have now HALVED the deficit, the GOP can't use their "out of control spending" meme to argue for more cuts.

[magellan]

94. You want everyone to "celebrate that the deficit is now under control".

That means little to those who've been forced to pay for it. They don't see this as something to crow about. Do you not understand that? It's lipstick on a pig.

[SunSeeker]

96. Celebrating it affirms it has been done, so we can move on.

Of course we have suffered. But we will suffer even more if the "government spending is out of control" meme persists. Don't you understand that?

[magellan]

97. It'd help a lot if the Dems didn't play along with it. n/t

[SunSeeker]

124. It'd help a lot if the Dems worked together. nt

[magellan]

127. As in stfu and clap?

If you want lock-step, join the Rethugs.

[SunSeeker]

129. No, as in stop insulting people who are on you side.

Constructive criticism is just that and I welcome it. Suggesting I am a nazi who wants you to walk in "lock step" and that I should "join the Rethugs" has no constructive purpose. Enough with the childish personal attacks.

[magellan]

140. You first

My constructive criticism was this: "It'd help a lot if the Dems didn't play along with it (the meme of necessary deficit cuts)." You replied: "It'd help if the Dems worked together."

Taken with the comment you made that initially drew my attention -- "That DUers assist the GOP in their anti-Obama propaganda is what is astonishing." -- it's hard not to feel you're being just a tad hypocritical in your angst over personal attacks. On whole, it sounds very much like you'd prefer DUers just stfu and clap.

[SunSeeker]

157. I haven't insulted you. You, on the other hand, have been heaping it on me.

I wasn't even responding to you when I made that comment. But the statement that some DUers, wittingly or not, assist the GOP in their anti-Obama propaganda (i.e., lies; such as Obama has done nothing, etc.) does fit some on this board. Spreading lies about Obama is not constructive criticism. To say that statement is the equivalent of me saying "DUers should just stfu and clap" is way off base and insulting.

[magellan]

160. What garbage

You're on a discussion board, and you replied to someone who wasn't talking to YOU with your crap about "DUers assisting the GOP in their anti-Obama propaganda". I'm tired of the BOG mentality victim complex being rolled out every time someone calls you guys on your own nastiness. If you don't like criticism of Obama, then go back to the BOG where you can control the dialogue. You're free to say what you like in GD as well, but here you'll have to defend yourself. Sorry if that seems unfair.

[SunSeeker]

161. What did I say that was "nasty" or "garbage"?

I didn't say I don't like "criticisms" of Obama. On the contrary, I said I welcome constructive criticism. And I don't tell you where to go. Why to you feel compelled to tell me where to go?

[magellan]

163. I'm not going to point it out again

If you can't see it, I can't help you.

You didn't say anything about constructive criticism until well into this back and forth with me.

Finally, I didn't tell you where to go. I said if you don't like criticism of Obama then go back to the BOG. The "if" makes it entirely up to you and what you feel you can take out here without you needing to resort to saying DUers are actively seeking to help the GOP harm Obama just because they express criticism.

[SunSeeker]

165. Repeating lies about Obama is not criticism. It's lying.

Repeating GOP propaganda (lies) about Obama is not criticism. Arguments/criticisms should be based on facts, not lies and insults.

[magellan]

166. There was no lie in what dawgs said.

So what particular lie(s) were you pointing out by accusing DUers of assisting the GOP with their anti-Obama propaganda?

[SunSeeker]

169. I didn't say there was.

I am talking about DUers saying things like this is "the worst government money can buy" or that Obama has done nothing or that he is just like Bush, etc.

[magellan]

171. Can you explain how the insult relates to the post you replied to?

Because I can't. It seemed like nothing but a cheap shot at those of us who see nothing to applaud in the damage done by the budget cuts.

[SunSeeker]

172. It is not an insult, it is a fact. Folks lie about Obama.

No one is asking you to applaud budget cuts. To suggest otherwise, as the post I was replying to did, is a "cheap shot," to use your lingo. It reminded me of the posts I constantly see here on DU besmirching Obama's accomplishments. Hence my reply.

We needed to reduce the deficit to prevent the debt from harming our country. You can still applaud Obama for reducing the deficit without applauding cuts. Obama reduced the deficit as best he could under the circumstances. If it was a Republican doing the cutting, there would have been cuts to medicare and food stamps. Obama did the best he could to avoid placing the cuts on the most vulnerable, fighting hard to prevent cuts in unemployment benefits for instance. And he still managed to reduce the deficit by half. That is to be applauded.

[magellan]

182. "if we don't celebrate that the deficit is under control...

the Republican meme to the contrary goes unchallenged."

That's what you wrote. Celebrate, applaud, a distinction without a difference. The deficit has been brought under control through wrecking ball cuts to popular and vital programs. I'm not going to celebrate that. If that makes me a "DUer who assists the GOP in their anti-Obama propaganda" in your eyes, so be it.

[SunSeeker]

184. No, the deficit was not brought down by "wrecking ball cuts."

That would have been the case if we had a Republican president. The wrecking ball cuts were at the state level, where Republican governors wielded the knife.

[Dawgs]

98. So, basically, 'keep your mouth shut because there's nothing we can do about it'.

Is that your argument.

At least you admit that how we got here was the wrong way.

[SunSeeker]

123. Not at all. We can do something about if we'd work together.

We are on the same side. Obama is not the enemy. If a Republican was doing these cuts, they would have been to social security and medicare benefits. Obama fought hard to prevent cuts to the most vulnerable, particularly with regard to unemployment benefits.

And despite the Republican obstructionism, he still managed to cut the deficit in half. We need to acknowledge that and scream it at every Republican who says spending is out of control or that we need to cut food stamps.

[Dawgs]

152. Agree. n/t

[Igel]

116. "Under control" is a loaded term.

In 2008 the deficit was labeled out of control and unsustainable. It was under $250 billion before the stimulus that spring--the stimulus that everybody said at $200 billion was outrageously expensive for a recession--and nearly half the peak non-stimulus-driven deficit of a couple of years before. And that was with the large tax cuts still in place and two wars going as full tilt as ever.

Now at $600 billion or more we're saying that they're under control and sustainable, and we need another large stimuls because although the recession ended 4 years ago we have crappy job growth? That's the deficit with large tax increases in place and no Iraq war spending, plus a draw-down in Afghanistan. And let's not forget the $85 billion forced sequester spending reduction that nobody seems to want.

Yes, there was a recession and the economy shrank. GDP's above where it was in 2008.

Lots of reasons for the deficit, and some danged good ones. But "under control" prompts some unflattering comparisons and sweeps those reasons under the carpet. This seeks to praise Obama with praise so faint that it's equally suited to damning him.

[SunSeeker]

63. But if we do not shout that Obama cut the deficit in half...

There will be no counterbalance to the GOP "government spending is out of control" meme. And as long as that meme is the dominant meme, we won't be able to convice people that we should spend more.

[riqster]

89. Perfectly put! nt

[SammyWinstonJack]

99. +1.

[Peacetrain]

30. Someone else posted this good news the other day.. and I had no idea

None what so ever, that he had cut the deficit that much.. I could not sign in here quick enough to give this a rec.. Where is the media on this one.. Not even MSNBC is covering it..

[riqster]

41. 'Twas Babylon sister who posted this image a few days ago.

I put it into my blog so as to get it circulation beyond DU.

Because the MSM has no interest in good news about this administration, we the people must spread it around.

[Peacetrain]

68. Yep exactly Babylon sister

posted it..

[Cha]

134. Thanks for posting it again, riqster.. Good news always

gets buried too fast.

[JustAnotherGen]

31. Noticed it yesterday in BOG

We still have 400K without jobs in NJ - but I don't blame anyone at the Federal level (to include the members of the House) for that.

I blame Good Guv'nah Doughboy for that. He's the one who hates public services and has an Administration set on strangling those services by firing folks left and right. It wouldn't be so bad if we had as many teachers, emts, fire employees, police employees as we did in December 2009.

[Iliyah]

32. Geez if Pres O

had some help from congress especially the majority in the house America would be coming out of the recession much faster y'know. No sequester and federal employees don't have to face the furloughs, head start cuts, meals on wheel cuts and cancer patients won't be turned away and can't get there proper medications.

Consistently voting to repeal Obamacare but refuse to offer any potential jobs plans especially the ones that would create well paying jobs with benefits and constantly striking down Pres O's job plans. He also proposed raising minimum wage. What ever he propose they go against. Now look what they are proposing - cutting snap but forcing women not to have a choice. Some companies like Walmart only allow most of their employees to work 39 hours or less so they don't have to cover for benefits and tells their employees to reply on Medicaid - which America tax payers help to support.

So hell yeah, from all the gawd damn obstruction and NO No no, this country is slowly trying to recover.

[think]

33. Noticing and applauding that effort. Obama has handled the economy masterfully

And though I'm not happy with all his decisions in this regard; to show any criticism for what Obama did to get us out of the depths of hell created by Shrub would be tough to justify on economic grounds.

As to the banksters & Wallstreet and the criminality of their actions I have not forgotten Obama comparing the banking collapse to being held hostage by a terrorist threatening to blow himself up. That is a very serious comparison. (Sorry I can't find a link to this but I do recall it being said. I am posting this in defense of president Obama as to the pressures he was put under in regards to all this.)

So I feel the president has been coerced perhaps legally, but certainly unethically, and/or perhaps illegally in some fashion into not going for prosecutions. At least that is my hope. Scary thoughts either way...

My 2 cents

[gtar100]

35. That's the pattern... Democrats clean up Republican messes and when things really start to turn

around, the conservatives will be there to take credit, take over, and mess it all up again.

That's been the pattern anyway at least since the beginning of the 20th century. I would be thrilled if this time around the nation doesn't fall into complete amnesia and forget all the crap republicans have pulled especially over these last last 30 years.

But our problem of conservatism is unfortunately very deeply ingrained in the roots of our culture. I would say they had their biggest heyday back with the Roman Empire. So we've got to figure out a way to not forget the negative consequences when right-wing conservatives have positions of power. They bank on short-term memory.

[riqster]

52. "They bank on short-term memory. "

And far too many Americans have accounts at such "banks".

[BlancheSplanchnik]

61. repuke MO. easy to fool people

Hard to convince them they've been fooled

[spanone]

38. you mean the liberal media isn't shouting this from the highest heights???????

[ffr]

55. Didn't make the News here.

But I'll be sure to talk about it to my Rethug buddies.

[DFW]

57. There is a difference between noticing and caring or understanding

As far as the Republican-parroting media cares, deficits matter if there is a Democrat in the White House and do not matter if there is a Republican in the White House. Cheney practically said so in so many words, and the RW media have been faithfully repeating it ever since.

[SunSeeker]

60. K & R

[ctsnowman]

67. K & R

I'm sure fox news will cover this 24 7.

[BumRushDaShow]

71. K&R

Might be time to start looking at what Jerry Brown is doing in CA as a model for how to reprioritize use of the peace dividend.

[riqster]

75. Damn straight.

He did the same thing to the same degree that Obama would have done, had the Prexy not been cock-blocked by the Reeps and DINOs in the Legislative branch.

Obama could only do a small percentage of what Brown did, and as such he has not been as successful. Had Congress not been so far to the Right, we could be realizing far better results today.

The approach is valid. Our politicos need to nut up and do the needful.

[Ichingcarpenter]

76. Nominated .... credit where credit is due

I still have complaints but no republican is better than any democrat. and that's the truth. I still worry about the poor and other democratic values I grew up with.

[riqster]

93. Agree completely

The worst Dem is better than the best Reep.

How I wish we could get more Dems elected: for that matter, Dems that are more progressive. But we are playing the cards we're dealt.

[RC]

78. Some disagree with you.

From the first breaths of life to the last, our lives are being stolen out from under us. From infant care and early education to Social Security and Medicare, the dominant economic ideology is demanding more lifelong sacrifices from the vulnerable to appease the gods of wealth.

Middle-class wages are stagnant. Uemployment is stalled at record levels. College education is leading to debt servitude and job insecurity. Millions of unemployed Americans have essentially been abandoned by their government. Poverty is soaring. Bankers break the law with impunity, are bailed out, and go on breaking the law, richer than they were before.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023206767

[riqster]

85. Kindly See Post 72 and respond to it.

Instead of avoiding it, and then trying the same tactic further downthread.

Again: The OP did not say everything is wonderful. The OP gave Obama credit where due for cutting the Bush Deficit.

[LakeErieLiberal]

80. This just shows that Democrats do not get it either!!

We should not be cutting the deficit! Democrats are wrong for just being tax-side deficit scolds! The Public Sector Deficit, when it spends more than its income is after subtracting the trade deficit is the private sectors net savings.

With our horrific trade deficit that allows the foreign sector to net save, we are taking dollars out of the private sector...out of people's pockets when we spend too little and try to close a deficit.

It is not a coincidence that consumer credit/debt expanded last quarter as the deficit increased. It perfectly follows from Wynne Godley's Sectoral Balances Model of Aggregate Demand.

This is why I feel compelled to primary Marcy Kaptur. Democrats/Progressives have their hearts in the right place but we don't seem to understand how our monetary system works!!!

Barack Obama (who I campaigned heavily for) and every democrat is wrong for trying to be better at cutting deficits than Republicans! We are getting played by Republicans who just want to give more money to the wealthy and then they trick democrats into being better at cutting the deficit and proving we're "more responsible" than they are.

The United States can always pay interest on outstanding treasury securities. The only way to lower unemployment without the private sector going into unsustainable levels of debt is for the Federal Government to run larger deficits.

We need democrats clamoring from hell to high water for lower taxes on working people, larger social security checks and more government spending!!!

Barack Obama is the Eisenhower of our party accepting the Republicans paradigm!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

81. Republicans claim Romney could have fixed the deficit in six months....

Oh,....and he would have cast a Mormon spell and all of your money would start to multiply.

But don't worry,...Jackson and Washington humping in your back pocket isn't gay at all.

[riqster]

83. The Dems have not controlled the house "since 2007".

What a pile of Republican bilge.

[MrSlayer]

87. The Democrats have controlled the House for 4 of the last 19 years.

2007, 2008, 2009 and 2010. After next year it will be 4 out of 20. So yeah, it is a Republican deficit.

I wish it were a Democratic deficit because it would likely mean there were jobs created like crazy and benefits doled out to those that need them instead of idiotic wars of choice and tax cuts for Wall Street slobs causing it.

[riqster]

90. Oh yeah. nt

[DCBob]

92. Remarkable considering all the headwinds from the Grand Obstructionists Party.

Well done Mr President!

[Dawgs]

100. You're kidding, right?

The GOP got EXACTLY what it wanted. This was a victory for them, not the Democrats or any of their constituents.

[DCBob]

101. "GOP got EXACTLY what it wanted" -- your kidding about that right?

The Rethugs wanted much much much much more. They will eventually get what they want if Democrats lose focus of who the real enemy is.

[Dawgs]

106. Of course they wanted more. Doesn't mean they aren't happy about what they got. n/t

[DCBob]

118. Those f'kers will never be happy until they "take back THEIR country".

[riqster]

102. No, they got far less.

And if we want to get what WE want, we need to GOTFV, take back the House and get over 60 Senate seats.

[Dawgs]

107. No, they got more than they expected. That's different than not getting everything they want.

I agree about taking back Congress.

[NuclearDem]

112. This is not good news. In fact, it's bad, bad news.

You absolutely cannot cut spending during economic downturns. The only way this can be remotely interpreted as "good news" is if it's used as a talking point against the austerity Republicans who use the deficit as a weapon; if history is any indication, this won't change their minds at all.

This trend is nearly identical to the Texas Miracle, and they're both equally bullshit. Unemployment might be falling, but it all depends on the quality of jobs that are being added. Yes, more people are being employed, but when McDonald's workers in NYC have to live in homeless shelters because they can't afford the rent, that's hardly good news.

Deficits and the debt only matter to the people who aren't in power; in that case, they're very effective ways to go after whoever occupies the White House and the Congress.

[zappaman]

120. Kick and Rec!

[Rex]

126. This is a patten we see all the time now.

Democratic POTUS fixes our deficit, Repuke POTUS comes along and destroys the current economic cycle and puts the deficit back in the trillion dollar range. Democratic POTUS comes along and fixes our deficit.

If only we can keep Repukes out of Congress and the WH AND the SCOTUS...we might actually get something done, like saving the middle class.

[Scurrilous]

130. K & R

[Cha]

132. Hey Republicons, U Mad?

http://theobamadiary.com/2013/07/07/signs-of-the-times/

[riqster]

143. And far too many of us play chorus to the GOP leaders.

[Number23]

150. PREACH IT. Though most of the "us" doing that I don't think are "us" at all.

[riqster]

174. Point. I am using the term broadly.

And that may offend some, and for that I apologize. My intent was to call out only those Americans who actually follow the GOP leaders and their talking points.

[felix_numinous]

137. He likely fought tooth and nail

to get this, too. He is surrounded by conservatives.

[Major Hogwash]

139. Good thread.

It's got sparkle pony dust all over it!

[riqster]

144. A specialty of mine.

I'm all about the light & fluffy, bright and sparkly, don't cha know.

[former9thward]

141. You are confusing the debt and the deficit.

The debt is $17 trillion. That has never been cut. This year's budget deficit is about 1/2 of last year's budget deficit. Presidents inherit the debt from their predecessors. The deficit is their own.

[riqster]

146. No, actually, I'm not.

In fact, the link at the OP contains a link to a great site that shows lots of details about both topics. Each year's deficit adds to the national debt, and payments on the debt are part of the budget and hence part of the deficit, so they are not completely separate and distinct.

As to the deficit, it is less than half what Obama inherited, and that is largely because of increased tax receipts. And those tax receipts have increased because of tax increases on the top earners (an Obama policy victory) and the economic recovery (also largely because of Obama's policies). Only a small part of the reduction is because of Sequestration.

So, yes, there's a deficit. But thanks to Obama, it is smaller. And that, my bucko, means that the Debt will increase at a slower rate. So it's win now, and a win in the future.

[former9thward]

148. I notice you provide no figures.

But I will.

2009 $1413 Billion Deficit $1539.22 Billion Deficit
2010 $1294 Billion Deficit $1386.92 Billion Deficit
2011 $1299 Billion Deficit $1350.31 Billion Deficit
2012 $1100 Billion Deficit $1120.16 Billion Deficit
2013 $900 Billion Deficit $900 Billion Deficit

The second figure is inflation adjusted to 2013 dollars. There is no evidence the deficit is becoming manageable even if it is becoming "smaller". Presidents do not inherit deficits, they inherit debt.

[W_HAMILTON]

149. They inherit deficits as well.

The government's fiscal year runs from 10/1 to 9/30. This means that FY2009 began on 10/1/2008, before Obama was even elected. Most of the spending (and subsequent deficit) in FY2009 was due to appropriations that were put in place before Obama even took office. Some of the spending in FY2009 was attributable to stimulus and other measures enacted under President Obama, but most were due to spending set forth before Obama became president.

[riqster]

173. I told you where to find the figures

And far more comprehensive ones than the cherry-picked stats you post here. If you're too lazy to click a few hyperlinks, that's not my lookout.

[friendlyFRIEND]

145. its a good start,

it will be PBO first annual deficit of less than 1T dollars. However the national debt has grown by 6+T dollars

[RandiFan1290]

151. Sup?

[sheshe2]

153. Kicked and Recommending!

[midnight]

158. The poor have taken notice....

[Lady Freedom Returns]

168. We have also notice how much the Repukes are out to hurt us.

They seem to forget the poor vote too. And we are getting very pissed.

[Bigredhunk]

159. K&R

[SnakeEyes]

164. Smaller deficits are good

But it's the debt I am concerned about, which has ballooned.

[SunSeeker]

170. Yes, the debt ballooned under Bush.

The debt is caused by deficit spending, which Obama has cut in half.

What more could he do at this point to address the debt? Of course he needs to raise revenues, but that will never get through the House or survive a Senate filibuster.

[riqster]

175. The National Debt is a cumulative number, created by annual budget deficits.

So a reduction in deficit spending does help to deal with the debt load in the long term.

[Scurrilous]

177. Boink.

[riqster]

178. Best word ever for a kick!

I may start using it

[Scurrilous]

185. ....