General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsWhere the Hell Is the Outrage?
http://www.commondreams.org/view/2013/07/09-0"Its an almost classic state of alienation," writes Eskow, "in which people may be acutely aware of their own increasing difficulties (although sometimes they can be numb to that as well) but experience them in a state of isolation."
From the first breaths of life to the last, our lives are being stolen out from under us. From infant care and early education to Social Security and Medicare, the dominant economic ideology is demanding more lifelong sacrifices from the vulnerable to appease the gods of wealth.
Middle-class wages are stagnant. Uemployment is stalled at record levels. College education is leading to debt servitude and job insecurity. Millions of unemployed Americans have essentially been abandoned by their government. Poverty is soaring. Bankers break the law with impunity, are bailed out, and go on breaking the law, richer than they were before.
And yet, bizarrely, the only Americans who seem to be seething with anger are the beneficiaries of this economic injustice the wealthiest and most privileged among us. But those who are suffering seem strangely passive.
As long as they stay that way, there will be no movement to repair these injustices. And the more these injustices are allowed to persist, the harder it will be to end them.
Where the hell is the outrage? And how can we start some?
randome
(34,845 posts)Have we become too 'rich' in other senses of the word? Computers and smart phones everywhere, if you're into IT and mobile, you really don't have a problem finding a job.
Does the Information Age have something to do with a lack of marches on Washington?
Just thinking out loud.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]The truth doesnt always set you free.
Sometimes it builds a bigger cage around the one youre already in.[/center][/font]
[hr]
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Because it's SO big. A juggernaut.
When the French Revolution happened, imho, it was because the responsibility lay with an easily identified enemy.
Now, the cheaters, liars, power-nuts are so widespread and/untouchable and the threats are so many, that there's just no way to pick a focus.
Maybe that's why the teaterrorists succeed --because they're uninformed and hateful. They can focus their energy on one "Enemy".
I'm just thinking out loud too.
randome
(34,845 posts)But maybe we're reaching the point where the GOP is getting more blame for obstructionism. Seems that way, anyways. And that's a good thing.
[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font]
[hr]
BlancheSplanchnik
(20,219 posts)Love your sig line, btw!
randome
(34,845 posts)[hr]
[font color="blue"][center]Birds are territorial creatures.
The lyrics to the songbird's melodious trill go something like this:
"Stay out of my territory or I'll PECK YOUR GODDAMNED EYES OUT!"[/center][/font]
[hr]
Jackpine Radical
(45,274 posts)I think the classical sociological concepts such as anomie and alienation are manifestations of L.H.
It's worth looking at, like maybe on Wikipedia.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)While some countries in Europe take care of their citizens from cradle to grave, providing free higher education and incredibly generous child care and child leave.
I passed beyond outrage and out the other side. I left America and much of what I loved behind because I did not see a bright enough future for my children.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)go to such efforts to live a better life that should have been attainable here.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I miss many things and I thank you for reaching out to understand my feelings.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)locales and find each quite different. However, in each I have discovered ways or places or people that endear me to it. I hope you find that is true globally as well.
Bonobo
(29,257 posts)I have found a great deal of peace of mind here and it has worked out very well.
I'm not a young man and it took a lot of energy to get out of the orbit of America but I was able to do it and make a change, not only in my life and that of my children, but that of my future descendants as well.
Triana
(22,666 posts)xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)and yours can barley survive and see how much "fight" you have left in you.
Triana
(22,666 posts)just to survive.
What do you suggest? Where does it end?
MrsBrady
(4,187 posts)plus...over educated for the job I have...
I'm happy to have it...it barely...and really doesn't pay all my expenses, but I have health care...
(I'll probably have to file bankruptcy soon. Don't know yet...just thinking about it...)
but I'm so damned tired at the end of the day, because I took what I could find in 2010.
I need a second job, but I don't think I could physically do it.
I have been politically active, but I just am too tired to do much. and there you are.
exactly right. So busy trying to just survive and take care of the necessary things in life there is no time or energy for anything else.
cprise
(8,445 posts)Why do you think both Bush and Obama have been urging the public to get their depression treated. The system tends to over-prescribe antidepressants.
ReRe
(10,597 posts)Some folks on anti-depressants can't put one foot in front of the other.
Doctor_J
(36,392 posts)Puzzledtraveller
(5,937 posts)For many it's the internet, turn that off then you'll get peoples attention.
kenny blankenship
(15,689 posts)It stoned an agitated, mobilized America right the fuck out into placid zombies again.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)on a screen the size of a shot glass using nothing but their two thumbs (and faster than I can talk as well LOL).
They have been patient with me and always take the time to translate when I text back "what the hell did you just text me?"
I am funny and likely annoying to them, but they are good kids.
xtraxritical
(3,576 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)Unemployment has been falling consistently and steadily since Obama took office.
But that's just a fact.
Remember when DU used to deal in facts? We used to pride ourselves on it.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)The BLA "unemployment rate" is going nowhere fast, and the per-capita employment rate is truly S-T-A-L-L-E-D.
If you think there is any great news in the economy other than it being better than it was in 2009, which it surely is, then you are not keeping company with facts.
tridim
(45,358 posts)byeya
(2,842 posts)since Obama took office.
The percentage particpation in the labor market among those of that age is at or near a record low. There's some good news just not very much of it.
Response to byeya (Reply #11)
AlbertCat This message was self-deleted by its author.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)was in the past? Most right wingers aren't. It doesn't serve their purpose to deal with the whole truth. Also, U-6 is altered by a number of things such as the aging population, number of people in college and people in the military. The reason only the right wing uses that is because they can combine the effect of having so many in the military, the again baby boom generation, and the record number in school to their advantage. Compare apples to apples. If you're going to use U-6, use that number pre-Obama, subtract the additional aging population, those in the military, and the difference in college population and get back to me. Untl then, you're just another right wing propagandist.
byeya
(2,842 posts)a fact that is neither right nor left wing. The 14.3% is at a 4 month high.
The Dept of Labor stat is used by academic economists, labor unions, money managers, and just about everyone else.
It's methodology differs from the U-3 stat and the two add perspective to the state of the labor market.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)But only because it makes you mad.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Fuddnik
(8,846 posts)Record territory.
Anybody who doesn't understand the nuance is delusional.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)The employment ratio was much lower than that in the past because there were far fewer women in the workforce.
And references to records in the BLS Unemployment rate are distorted because the BLS unemployment rate started being measured in 1948, way after the great depression.
Almost any measure was worse in 2009 than today, and certainly better than in the 1930s. So I don't think we are at any record levels in un-and-under employment.
But we are not improving in per-capita employment, which is more than enough of a problem to gain one's attention... leaving aside whether something is a record.
(The fact that things were worse in 1933 is a poor argument against trying to fix something today.)
happyslug
(14,779 posts)Wage and hours surveys were resumed in 1913, but resources permitted only 10 industry studies every other year.These studies focused on industries, or industry groups, such as cotton, wool and silk. For each study, data were collected and published on hourly wage rates, full-time weekly earnings, fluctuations in employment during the year, volume of employment, and productivity. In 1916, the Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS) began to publish monthly employment series for five industries. This was the start of the establishment series on employment and payrolls.....
The next surge of interest in labor statistics came in the latter part of the 1920s. By 1927, there was monthly reporting of employment on 54 manufacturing industries covering 11,000 establishments; and in 1928-29, agriculture, mining, construction and trade were added to the reporting. Several studies addressed the issue of how to collect unemployment statistics, a continuing and unresolved issue at that time.....
The Great Depression spawned a number of new laws, such as the Fair Labor Standards Act, which required new statistics on the labor force. Collection of unemployment statistics remained an unresolved issue in the 1930s. After many studiesand false startsa household survey was undertaken; and national unemployment estimates were produced, for the first time, in 1940. In 1938 the Central Statistical Board and the American Statistical Association moved to develop an occupational classification system that reflected the similarity of work, education requirements, skill levels, and socioeconomic class. This new classification was used in the 1940 census and the development of the Occupational Outlook Program. With the outbreak of World War II, the statistical focus changed from recession and depression to wartime needs.
http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20030124ar02p1.htm
Thus we have data from the Great Depression, no one liked what the Data was saying, so expansion of the program was delayed till the needs of the post depression period, 1938-1941, required good data. The huge labor shortage of 1942-1945 lead to massive increase in labor employment data, so by 1947 it was possible to adopt standards as to employment rate. These methods were good enough to be adopted by the UN and the International Labour Organization (Yes, the ILO uses the English spelling of Labor NOT the American Spelling). There are differences between what the ILO uses and what the Department of Labor uses, but the differences are more technical then real.
Please note in 1947 the US adopted U1, U2, u3, U4, U5, U6 and U7 unemployment statistics, these were recuded to the present six in the 1980s.
http://www.ilo.org/global/lang--en/index.htm
http://www.bls.gov/opub/cwc/cm20030124ar03p1.htm
And here is the U3 rate since 2008:
http://portalseven.com/employment/unemployment_rate.jsp?fromYear=2008&toYear=2013
For what is U1, U2, U3, U4., U5 and U6 unemployment see:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Unemployment
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)story making the rounds last week that Obama has presided over the longest unbroken period of unemployment over 7.5% "on record" that was derived from the fact that the BLS unemployment rate is considered apples and oranges for comparisons before and after 1948.
A matter of the comprable-run of one data set.
Since the poster was referrering to a record current unemployment situation (which is impossible in meaningful terms... 1933 really was worse) I was commenting on the concept of "record" vis-a-vis the official unemployment rate, which seems to be only compared apples-to-apples within the 1948-2013 period.
But yes, data collection and analysis certainly predates 1948, and your post is very informative.
okaawhatever
(9,462 posts)that's what you believe? The number you showed is a calculation that does not take into account people in the military, the aging population and the record number of college students. The reason we have a lower participation in the labor force is in part because of those three factors. Stop watching fox and rush and you'll be much happier. BTW the number you show, will continue to be lower all things being equal until the aging baby boomers exit the cohort group.
Response to okaawhatever (Reply #109)
cthulu2016 This message was self-deleted by its author.
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Try just making crap up, they seem to crave that.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)I posted the contents of the '93 heritage foundation health insurance scam and noted it was nearly identical to the ACA which it is. This led to much comic denial of the content I posted for all to see. Also, for some reason they link to the heritage foundation now for right wing talking points about how great the ACA is, they didn't even see the irony or anything wrong with using a right wing source as a fountain of knowledge. The truth pissed them off so much they won't let me post there any more. I didn't know it was a fact free zone.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I've been booted twice, DU2 and DU3. Both times it was due to responses, not OPs.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)All I did was express my admiration for the good things that Candidate Obama said were his goals in 2008.
Really. That's it. I did not criticize his perfidy. But apparently his perfidy was already well known and the post was interpreted as a unstated criticism of Obama.
ACA is absolutely a Heritage Foundation/Gingrich bastard child, that's why I call it GingrichCare. We didn't get single-payer, which is absolutely necessary as our govt. refuses to rein in the serial-killer insurance agencies, nor did we even get a public option.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)We want to believe...
jtuck004
(15,882 posts)Here.
...
...the one sector that added the most jobs in June, leisure and hospitality. That category comprised 75,000 of the 195,000 new jobs in June. Of that, 52,000 came from food services and drinking places, and 19,000 came from amusements, gambling, and recreation.
The average hourly wage in that industry was $13.46, and average hours were flat at 26.1. That includes all workers, she pointed out. For those in non-supervisory roles, the bulk of the employees, the average hourly wage was $11.75, for an average gross weekly income of siddown $294.93.
There you have it. The single biggest chunk of new jobs in June paid an annual salary of roughly $15,000. Thats why you need to get past the headline numbers and see what the report is really saying. The economy is not going to grow on its own with those kinds of jobs. And this was a good month. It all helps explain the weakness of the recovery, the weakness of corporate sales growth, and the hesitancy of the Fed to remove the wooden supports its wedged under the economy.
Theres your big add, McCullough wrote, in her usual blunt style. Theres the hot, steaming work force behind our GDP growth.
And this hot steaming pile will leave tens of millions of people in poverty for decades, because people can't eat excuses.
truedelphi
(32,324 posts)Goes directly to the coffers of the Big Financial Firms. Compliments of Bush/Obama, Paulson/Geithner/Bernacke policies.
This means we are no longer a nation with a middle class. Historically, even in the "bad times" under Ron Reagan, only eight cents of every dollar of profit went off to the Financial Firms.
Yes, there are more people working than in 2009, but so what? The jobs offer less in wages, and many people have to work at two jobs.
Some recovery. For those with investments, things are peachy. But since there have been no meaningful regulations on the Finance and Banking sector, another stock market crash is inevitable.
Skittles
(153,160 posts)Friday's employment report wasn't bad. But given how depressed our economy remains, we really should be adding more than 300,000 jobs a month, not fewer than 200,000. As the Economic Policy Institute points out, we would need more than five years of job growth at this rate to get back to the level of unemployment that prevailed before the Great Recession. Full recovery still looks a very long way off. And I'm beginning to worry that it may never happen.
http://economictimes.indiatimes.com/opinion/comments-analysis/is-mass-unemployment-becoming-the-new-normal-asks-paul-krugman/articleshow/20984004.cms
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Long-term unemployment is one of the most vexing problems the U.S. faces, and todays jobs report shows all-too-meager progress in fixing it.
The U.S. created 165,000 new jobs in April, pushing down the unemployment rate to 7.5 percent from Marchs 7.6 percent. But as of the end of April, 4.4 million Americans, or 37 percent of the unemployed, had been without a job for 27 weeks or longer, barely better than Marchs 39 percent. The U.S. cant afford to write off more than 4 million people who would like to work but havent for more than six months.
Long-term joblessness peaked in April 2010 at 6.7 million, so the picture might seem to be improving. Hidden within that number is this troubling fact: The average unemployed person has been out of work for 36.5 weeks. Thats not much better than the December 2011 duration of 40.7 weeks, which was the longest since World War II. Long-term unemployment at the start of the recession in December 2007 was 1.3 million people, and the average duration was 16.6 weeks.
Terrible things happen to people when they are out of work for long periods, numerous studies show. Beyond a sharp drop in income, long-term unemployment is associated with higher rates of suicide, cancer (especially among men) and divorce. The children of the long-term unemployed also show an increased probability of having to repeat a grade in school.
Unemployment Rate Unchanged In June, Long-Term Joblessness Still Terrible
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/05/unemployment-rate-june_n_3541128.html
WASHINGTON -- The U.S. economy added 195,000 mostly low-paying jobs in June, putting a tiny dent in the unemployment crisis -- too tiny a dent to bring the unemployment rate down from 7.6 percent.
Long-term joblessness accounts for a disproportionate share of current unemployment and is a bigger problem than it has ever been since the government began keeping track. Of the 11.8 million jobless Americans in June, 4.3 million had been out of work six months or longer. There were 1 million fewer long-term jobless than last year, but their ranks remain way above the previous high-water mark of 2.8 million in 1983.
What's happening? One theory holds that employers just don't want to touch anyone who has been out of work a long time. Another says overly generous unemployment insurance has made jobless workers too choosy. Mounting evidence points toward the former theory.
The latest is a policy brief released Monday by the Federal Reserve Bank of Boston, in which researcher Rand Ghayad examined whether long-jobless workers eligible for benefits are faring worse than ineligible workers. He argues his results should help discredit the notion that unemployment insurance has coddled workers.
AnotherMcIntosh
(11,064 posts)suffered by many of the long-term unemployed.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)But real numbers, like the U6, are a continual disaster.
tridim
(45,358 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Show us some of those wrong quotes, or slink back to your bog in shame.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Search DU for "mannygoldstein" for proof.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Link or slink.
Enough of your base bullshit.
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Kool-Aid they're drunk.
TO those who feel pride, relief or whatever in the lowering of any index of unemployment I urge you to look where the wonderful new jobs are.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Of course everyone knows you still worship Satan because I just said so. But really, who doesn't worship Satan these days am I right?
byeya
(2,842 posts)be able to compete with those who can tell a reliable source from a script.
Try harder and don't forget your medications.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)So I will check back later to see the proof...that will be forthcoming right?
BornLooser
(106 posts)Maedhros
(10,007 posts)Yet you refuse to actually demonstrate it.
tridim
(45,358 posts)There are many Manny posts that predict Chained CPI is a done deal, for instance. He was and is completely wrong about it.
His predictions are so wrong that I can rest assured that whatever Manny claims WILL happen, will NEVER happen.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)And all you do is attack people, rather than present evidence.
Response to Maedhros (Reply #113)
Post removed
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)tridim
(45,358 posts)Maybe someday he'll make a point that is accurate and worthy of discussion on our Democratic/Progressive forum.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)implying his points aren't worthy, without showing evidence.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Hey this is fun and easy if you can just proclaim shit and get away with it, I think we should all act like Stewie! It can be a new DU sport.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)in that Obama was not able to successfully pull it off, mostly because the Republican Congress is too buffoonish to take the low-hanging fruit when presented.
But Manny's been spot-on a number of times.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Manny simply pointed out each time that Obama advocated or negotiated for a chained CPI. He just posted the truth, Obama put it on the table. It was true each time Manny brought it up.
That's the subtle game they play, they imply absolutes such a "you always do or say x" or "you never do or say x". Or as with this misdirect, "Manny is wrong because the chained CPI is not law as he predicted", he did not predict anything, he if fact really just pointed out each time Obama offered it up and suggested it was a bad thing to put on the table. Manny was right each time as each time Obama did exactly as Manny claimed, they rewrote what he pointed out absurdly as if Manny predicted it was imminent making THEM wrong and dishonest, not him.
Maedhros
(10,007 posts)He didn't assert that chained CPI would pass, only that Obama kept shoving it onto the negotiating table. My point is that we got lucky that the Republicans weren't smart enough (?) or willing (?) to take it from him.
You're absolutely right - they argue semantics, not issues. And it's not very subtle, or convincing.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)Some really loony bagger types turned out to be a monster they created but couldn't control. The third way was surprised as was the regular GOP, everyone thought it would be a done deal in the tradition of Clinton/Gingrich on welfare reform and bank deregulation.
Really, the party leaders on both sides were shocked when the baggers wouldn't play ball. Ironically we have libertarians to thank for avoiding Pete Peterson's new masterpiece of a deal, it was everything they wanted and everything traditional Democrats like me didn't want, but they lost it because they wanted more meat off the poor and elderly bones. Perhaps in their fantasies they thought they could abolish entitlements completely, who knows what passes for strategy among them.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)You're even lying about that specific issue.
Link or slink.
tridim
(45,358 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Show my quote, you liar.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Well, it must be him then, because Obama has COMPLETE CONTROL over such things.
Good thing we have a Congress that makes laws so they can do something about it! Right????
tridim
(45,358 posts)M'kay.... Good luck with that.
AlbertCat
(17,505 posts)Sarcasm is not your strong point, is it?
winter is coming
(11,785 posts)qualifying it in some way. The "new" jobs aren't of the same calibre as the ones being lost: wages are lower, benefits are less or nonexistent, and many are working part-time or temp jobs. It's not enough to say "X people are employed"; we need to better quantify what employment is.
byeya
(2,842 posts)pensions and healthcare. To state the obvious, these jobs pay less than the ones that were disappeared.
It's also helpful to know the percentage of employable people who are technically in the job market: It's near an all-time low which I take to mean, people have given up trying to find a job.
How does this translate into increased misery as in ill health, family strife, and premature death?
I work in the tech industry that has been decimated by Free trade agreements. I barely make it paycheck to paycheck for something I put myself through school for. A lot of my colleagues and I see them struggling as bad. For one job opening there are a thousand people to pick from.
I voted for Obama to fix this situation not because I thought he was some fucking superhero. And don't give me the shit about obstructionism, 30 years ago it was called stone walling so it nothing fucking new.
Since O has been president he has signed at least 2 if not 3 FTA's exacerbating the problem. I'm thinking he's done the opposite on the job's front and made it worse.
Now if you believe all the pretty spoon fed headlines about jobs and unemployment then your naive.
The facts are out there where people work or don't work. Not in spoon fed headlines.
-p
tridim
(45,358 posts)I'm getting random job offers almost weekly now, as are my coworkers. That hasn't happened since the Internet bubble burst in late 1999.
Are you really looking, or are you just guessing?
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)Phlem
(6,323 posts)Of course I'm looking, unfortunately 3d artist jobs were the first one's to get outsourced and it's steam rolled from there. You have to practically be a physics science major just to get an art job and I can't retrain for programming because artist jobs are in demand. I interviewed at a 3d house where they model stadiums and event places. $15 an hour. I used to make $60,000 a year. Alot has changed since then. You pretty much have to know how to code and animate and texture etc...basically if you can make a game on your own then you can be hired on as an artist.
If your a coder then yea you've got your pick, anything else, good luck.
As a matter of fact a lot of my friends just got freshly laid off from Glu adding to the glut of artists looking for a job.
Then when you are hired you work 60 hours a week for a 40 hour a week salary. I don't know about you but I've got a family and I like to see them every once in a while.
white collar slavery? I think yes.
i knew one of the BOGers would turn this into a "blame the liberals" rant.
1. The situation in this country is dire
2. Almost nothing of substance is being done about it by our "representatives", including the "leader" of the Democratic Party
3. Adding McDonalds jobs does nothing about the quality of life, it just gives excuse-makers like yourself a canard to toss out the try to deflect the discussion.
Phlem
(6,323 posts)have you read this. I see it as commonplace anymore.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023087439
-p
rhett o rick
(55,981 posts)propagandized Americans either to feel hopeless, be outraged against the liberals, be outraged at anyone daring to challenge the President.
Here in DU is a good example. There are supposedly "political liberal" people here that concentrate their energies on fighting off all criticism of the president. For those issues where they can decide which side the president is on, they will post and post. Not so much on issues like the XL Pipeline, the TPP. Ask them if they approve of indefinite detention and see them spin in little circles. Politically liberal people and they can not take a side on indefinite fucking detention.
In about 2007 the Cabal decided that they, via Bush, pushed Americans about as far as possible without blowback. They figured out that the same policies could be continued under a Democratic president and Americans would be more accepting. Isnt it obvious when the Pres appoints Republicans like Clapper, Mueller, Bernanke, Geitner, Summers, Daley, Immelt, Simpson, Cote, Bush, Gates, McChrystal, Lew, Norton, Petraeus, Brennen, Hegal, Taylor, Comey, and more ? The Oligarch Cabal is laughing their heads off.
What the hell will Americans do in 2016? Clinton? Christie? Bush? IMO the same Republicans listed about will remain in charge regardless of who our figurehead president is.
Nay
(12,051 posts)that benefit the Oligarch Cabal, as you call them. And IMHO it's why so many people have given up on politics completely. We can't get any real democrats anywhere near the White House or the Congress.
"What the hell will Americans do in 2016?" Indeed, what the hell will we do? I will be very surprised if we have anyone other than one of the dynastic entries (Bush, Clinton) or another newbie who's bought and paid for.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)They aren't Democrats as I have known them to be or even the Dixiecrats of yore, which are actually the mainstream Republicans today.
These people are radical, and they are dangerous.
raouldukelives
(5,178 posts)Much more deeply than any sort of notions about treating people, animals and the planet with respect.
From employment to retirement. It all hinges on the success of Wall St. As long as it wins, they win.
Even when they know it means we all lose. They cannot resist the siren call of easy money that silences any moral conundrum the most timid of liberal minds can manufacture,
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)In about 2007 the Cabal decided that they, via Bush, pushed Americans about as far as possible without blowback. They figured out that the same policies could be continued under a Democratic president and Americans would be more accepting. Isnt it obvious when the Pres appoints Republicans like Clapper, Mueller, Bernanke, Geitner, Summers, Daley, Immelt, Simpson, Cote, Bush, Gates, McChrystal, Lew, Norton, Petraeus, Brennen, Hegal, Taylor, Comey, and more ? The Oligarch Cabal is laughing their heads off.
They let us choose between Clinton & Obama. Neither was my choice, but I did think there was more difference between the two of them. Silly me. Economically, there is not much difference between the dems & repubs. Socially, there is still a lot of difference. Can you have social justice without economic justice?
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)Social issues are distractions so that the gangsters and their neoliberal henchmen can continue to rob people blind.
It's worked like a charm for decades while the American economy and public institutions are being dismantled.
duffyduff
(3,251 posts)given his skimpy political experience? The guy wasn't even vetted, which should have rung alarm bells off on EVERYBODY.
My money is on Robert Rubin and his ilk.
There will never be another stolen presidential election again after 2004. That's because Wall Street, billionaires, and neoliberals control BOTH political parties, with one party sounding just a little more rational--and even more dangerous--than the other.
byeya
(2,842 posts)cow. Look to Rubin and Schumer as enablers.
The answer is public financing of elections with no "opt-outs"
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)Sounds like Anatomy of a Revolution should be on my reading list.
This isn't the case in the United States where, instead of "rising expectations", there is a growing sense of decay and despair. How to turn this around? I haven't a clue.
K&R
mahina
(17,659 posts)We know our system is corrupt and we don't see a way to change it.
I used to think that a transition to renewably generated energy and real campaign finance reform could heal almost every ill in this country.
RiverLover
(7,830 posts)Not only in elections but also the lobbyists. They write our legislation!! On the state level too. I live in NC & I'm seeing it now, the corruption is palatable.
It's simple, if we can't get money out of politics, things will continue to get worse.
You say "used to think", so you think differently now?
mahina
(17,659 posts)the path to get real campaign finance seems less clear. Always darkest before dawn.
mahina
(17,659 posts)In 2010 who, once elected, immediately put the insurance companies in charge of health care oversight and supported building on our only good ag land left. It still hurts. I feel like an idiot for wasting all that time and money. Without a voice at the legislature after defeat of publicly funded elections over and over, without a progressive gov and without a path forward. Still we have to endure. That's why I like DU..
issues and candidates come and go.
We need an antidote to ALEC , yesterday.
Nice to meet you. Good luck.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts)can see that climate change is going to change everything. We are not prepared for this, not as a nation, not as a species. "They" are building as big a cushion as they possibly can, cuz they know it's all about to crash & crash hard. The bottom comment is spot on: ...hold the masses in check for as long as possible so that the elites can continue to accumulate power and money. This, they believe, will save them.
I never was a glass half full kind of person.
byeya
(2,842 posts)to be relevant today.
The fear is that the unifying movement will be hard right instead of democratic socialist.
Thank you.
I agree with your conclusion.
Recursion
(56,582 posts)It's almost like everyday people have formed their own conclusions about what their interests are, and they are different from yours. How presumptious of them!
As long as the left keeps trying to tell people what they "actually" want, we will keep having electoral trouble that we shouldn't have...
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)can't *imagine* winning anymore. So we shrug, carry on, and die off.
30 years of loss. Even when we win, we lose. In 2008 we voted for FDR, but we got a sneaky version of Reagan instead.
Until we score some wins, we are lost.
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)it's what I call the "downtrodden mentality." It is very prevalent and very conducive to tyranny.
"Until we score some wins, we are lost." Concur.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Tell us about how Reagan cut the deficit in half.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)So you're right, Reagan was different that Obama - Reagan did the right thing in a recession, even though he hadn't a @#$%ing clue as to what he was doing or how.
I apologize for the inaccurate comparison.
Now it's time for you to apologize for your lying.
cthulu2016
(10,960 posts)Reagan really did nothing to cause the 1981-2 recession, or to fix it. His tax cuts increased the deficit, which had a modest stimulative effect handicapped by the fact that tax cuts for the rich are terrible stimulus.
But the Reagan recession was intentionally induced by Paul Volker and intentionally repaired by Paul Volcker through an incredible increase in interest rates, and when that cracked the economy, cutting the rates back down again.
Such a repair was mathematically impossible in 2008-9 because the collapse was not brought on intentionally through raising rates and thus the high interest rates were not there to be cut.
2008-9 was a bubble-burst event in a low interest rate environment and could only have been fixed by fiscal (rather than monetary) stimulus of a level that economically center-right figures in both parties (including Obama) considered unthinkable
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)Although you seem far more knowledgeable about it than I am! Thanks for the info.
Mostly I wanted to have a little fun with the triply-dim one.
tridim
(45,358 posts)Thanks for finally admitting it.
Response to tridim (Reply #114)
Post removed
HiPointDem
(20,729 posts)needed, just rate reduction.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)Its an almost classic state of alienation, in which people may be acutely aware of their own increasing difficulties (although sometimes they can be numb to that as well) but experience them in a state of isolation. That turns the anger inward, leading to crippling reactions like guilt and despair. And repeated individual failures failures made increasingly likely in a skewed system lead to a sense of learned helplessness.
................................................snip............................................................
The media has failed to tell the story of our broken economy. The two-party system is failing, too, as corporate forces complete their corruption of the GOP and seize an ever-increasing chunk of the Democratic Party.
The first step is recognizing the enemy and refusing to play in their world.
From the link:
The leftist Brazilian educator Paolo Freire spoke of internalizing the oppressor consciousness: internalizing the values of those who colonize, rule, and exploit you, accepting their distorted, Matrix-like view of the world as an objective reality.
.
malaise
(269,005 posts)People are waking up slowly
daleanime
(17,796 posts)Just because the MSM doesn't report it doesn't mean its non-existent. The problem is the vast majority of Americans have been made to feel powerless.
Lydia Leftcoast
(48,217 posts)The author is a transit and cycling advocate who lives in Los Angeles without a car. On purpose.
http://www.newcolonist.com/rr11.html
(snip)Now, community is one of the great pleasures of life, and we do it better than any other creatures on this planet. No other animal, for example, can use symbolic language to communicate with its fellows; no other arrays itself in an ever-changing second skin of emblems as do we when we don our clothes; no other has developed so rich a variety of social poetry as we have. We are the kind of critter that likes to chill wi' da homies; we are the back-fence gossip, the park bench raconteur, the streetcorner poet; we are the village idiot and the absent-minded professor feeding pigeons together in the public square; we're the handshake at a busy corner or the hand that helps an old lady onto the bus. But, ever more so lately, we are
alone.
What is your life these days? Do you wake up in the dark bedroom of your suburban house, dress hurriedly, stumble into the attached garage, strap yourself in the car even before you open the garage door with your remote, and roll out onto the streets alone in your glass-and-steel coffin, headed numbly to your underground parking structure and your cubicle? Maybe you'll drop your kids off at school on the way (your kids who do not know who lives around the corner); maybe you'll pick up breakfast at Jack-in-the-Box on the way to work (giving your order to an electronic grill, inching your car ahead till a plastic-coated hand reaches toward your window with the "food" ; maybe you'll watch TV tonight, because it's all you've ever done every night since you started working. Maybe that's your life these days. If you're in America, it probably is. You live alone with your family, and all the burdens of your humanity fall on the three or four of you alone.
No wonder there are so many divorces nowadays.
For seventy years or more the vast right-wing conspiracy has been telling us that we can be happy only in a little separate house surrounded by a moat of grass in a quiet suburb where everyone minds their own business. For seventy years or more they have been telling us that true freedom means driving everywhere alone in a car, that true security means sweating ever longer hours in a little gray cubicle at work, that true fulfillment comes from buying ever bigger television sets and watching ever simpler shows and ever-more-complicated commercials. For seventy years or more they've been telling us that the touch of a stranger brings a shame worse than death, and that the pinnacle of creation is four nervous people fighting over which meaningless TV show to watch on Friday night.
No wonder our country has the highest appetite for recreational drugs of any on this earth. ..
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)democrank
(11,094 posts)you hear plenty. Unlike from corporate media, our own government and even from some here at DU, you don`t hear the lower third whining about pony-demanding leftists and progressives. Why? Because those less fortunate know the folks fighting to maintain Head Start and fighting to take the obscene profit out of the medicine people will die without and folks fighting to do something about affordable housing, etc. are on their side.
Those I know who are suffering are not "strangely passive", they`re simply using up every shred of energy and will to just stay afloat. They hardly have enough gas money to get to work or enough food to feed their families. These are humble folks, proud folks, hard working folks who have come up against hard times.
People from the Democratic Wing of the Democratic Party should take control of a new message and stand up for ordinary people and a new age of genuine empathy.
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)winter is coming
(11,785 posts)stand up for ordinary people and a new age of genuine empathy."
If they did that, we would win and win big in 2014. I don't think it's impossible to get people to perk up and take notice of what they already sense is wrong with our country. TPTB don't think it's impossible either: witness the way the Occupy movement has been handled. They're afraid.
patrice
(47,992 posts)working on their own solutions.
byeya
(2,842 posts)to plan possible replacements for monopoly capitalism which is a clear failure for the majority.
I doubt if the NYT or WAPO carries stories about this groundlevel planning to alleviate the suffering.
zeemike
(18,998 posts)A replacement for the corrupt capitalist system that we now have.
ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)with my husband. I'm older now and even as recently as last year I kept trying to fight back, only to find that as time went by, I found myself standing alone, or only with less than 10 of us still trying.
I plead with people to start paying attention and stand up, but most say they don't think it will help. Too many just feel that our voices aren't going to be heard. Just think Scoot Walker, re-election of Sanford, Rick Perry saying the protests in TX aren't going tp matter and on and on.
And so, so much more. Repukes are choking us to death, but unfortunately there are many Democrats who're going right along with them. I feel like I'm sliding down a GIANT sink hole with nothing left to grab onto to and actually burst out crying at unexpected times. Losing grip on reality may be my undoing, my heart and soul just feels like it's getting squeezed and I'm backed into a corner!
byeya
(2,842 posts)ChiciB1
(15,435 posts)but it's getting to a point where my struggle is going down the drain. Pain is taking over, but I've always had an addiction when it comes to political activism. Many family members & friends have called me out about on many occasions, but we do seem to be losing the battle. And in some ways, when they tell me it's taking it's toll on me emotionally I'm unable to argue with them anymore.
I'm the doomsday Debbie Downer! They tell me there's nothing I can do about it so I should find something I can enjoy and make myself happy! I AM getting very worn down, and at my age having seen so much from the past, I'm astounded by my daughter & son's generation, and their kids generation's attitude about what's going on. I've heard from people that they're just waiting for the "zombies" to come and we need to protect ourselves and our own. Their point being that too many people have so much apathy and they no longer believe any effective people power can overcome the reality we live in.
They do have a point, because in fact... Where Is The Outrage??
OneGrassRoot
(22,920 posts)I hear you, ChicaB1.
PasadenaTrudy
(3,998 posts)JaneyVee
(19,877 posts)GOP is NOT interested in helping the people.
treestar
(82,383 posts)And wants to enrage them?
We have enough rage in this society. And a lot of people with guns.
Arugula Latte
(50,566 posts)The "little people" sense their powerlessness but tend to take out their anger on other "little people."
valerief
(53,235 posts)agent46
(1,262 posts)You're right, of course. And I'm only half-kidding about the chemtrails.
SmittynMo
(3,544 posts)Only able to find contract work sucks. No benefits, down time, the list goes on and on. No one in the government appears to want to help anyone, anymore. And the economy still sucks. I don't care what anyone else says. Unfortunately, I don't see the light at the end of the tunnel anymore. Sometimes it feels frugal even wanting to try to make yourself better. But we all do, because we like to eat food and keep a roof over our heads. The jobs are not out there like they use to be, as many are overseas. Wages are way below what they use to be. No raises anymore, or way below the standard of living. Yes, I'm pissed, but what can I do? Grin and bear it and hope I can make it to retirement age. And hope to God that Social Security is still in place. And even that is not enough to survive. As far as unemployment numbers, I NEVER trust them, as they have no way to track those that fell off the cliff, when their checks stopped. I don't have the answers. I just try to make to day to day, like most of us, and hope for the best.
Spitfire of ATJ
(32,723 posts)Then employers tell us "Times are tough" so they don't have to give out a raise.
Meanwhile the shareholders are throwing themselves a party over their record profits.
Babel_17
(5,400 posts)A lot of the outrage gets diverted to scapegoats. Middle class people are told by Republicans to look at those who need a helping hand, or who are using their earned benefits, as the reason why their family budget looks grim.
And, I hate to say it, Democrats are told that it's all the fault of the evil Republicans. Nosireee, no kowtowing to the wealthy from us, we're forced to do it.
It's how our minds work. We accept the scapegoats and we accept the goals we are presented with. Republicans sell the goal of cutting benefits to the neediest and Democrats sell the goal of winning just one more election cycle.
After the crash there was an opening for some quick change. We missed that opportunity but the public has been growing more aware imo.
The army of truth tellers is growing and their tools are getting better.
What we have to stay on top of is the elimination of the power of democracy. We have to make sure that voting people out of office has a relation to changing who has the power. So, yeah, we need to change how government runs and how politics is funded.
LakeErieLiberal
(37 posts)Democrats are too busy celebrating how Obama and Co. and the Democrats have cut the deficit even though it just mean less aggregate demand and that the private sector will either go into debt to keep the economy going or we will have a recession. It is only a matter of time with a trade deficit the size that we have.
adirondacker
(2,921 posts)The National nailed it with this tune.
ananda
(28,862 posts)I've been asking myself that for the past 12 years!
world wide wally
(21,743 posts)out in the streets and we're perfectly comfortable in our air conditioned houses and far too busy working to make ends meet to be bothered with these things.
Now let's see how long these comforts last.
pa28
(6,145 posts)Another factor might be religious tradition. If you lose your house, your job and the wolf is at the door it must be because you've sinned in the eyes of god. It's all *your* fault.
In any case the writer nailed it. K&R
MrSlayer
(22,143 posts)The outrage was there but they went in with the storm troopers and started hurting people. People are afraid to get hurt. We've been so softened by creature comforts and little electronic distractions that no one even knows how to protest anymore. And further, they've conditioned a good half of the population to be ok with things as they are or to blame it on people not responsible.
We suck as a people anymore. Scared little subservient punks. We used to be fearless and good. No more.
DreamGypsy
(2,252 posts)...Gets Hauled Off By State Troopers.
posted by kpete: http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017130387
raindaddy
(1,370 posts)The motivation to create change comes out of the awareness that the current system isn't geared to solve the problems or improve the lives of the poor and middle-class, it's geared to represent the interests of the people who fund our elections. We also need to begin to realize being a "proud, independent, working American" needs to be balanced with the realization that we all share the same commons. We need to take notice the "hard working independent" meme has been exploited by the media to the point where we've lost touch with the commons. People have been made to feel like somehow they're not working enough hours or hard enough, which is a crock of shit. Most of us work longer hours and produce more than anytime in our history.
People need to realize they "deserve" livable wage jobs, affordable education, health care, infrastructure, overall quality of life. Look around, this isn't a scarce universe The resources are there, they're just in the hands of a small group of people who we've allowed over the last 30 + years to game the system.
Also we shouldn't forget politics isn't the only avenue for change, in fact most politicians are some of the most boring, self-serving, uncreative, dishonest people on the planet. Besides the current system is working for them. If we wait for them to catch-up and lead us into a new era we'll be waiting forever. We need to start thinking outside the box. Awareness leads to motivation, motivation creates change.
Inventor Elon Musk comes to mind, he's taking on big oil in the marketplace. Musk created Tesla a US company that manufactures electric cars. In two years they plan to cover the US with superchargers that will allow Tesla owners to drive across country for free. Also the third phase Tesla, promises to be a more affordable version. I will give the politicians credit for giving him a $465 million loan which he's repaid the government in full.
Warpy
(111,265 posts)When I do talk to random strangers about current events, I'm always a little suprised at the fury lurking just below the surface.
It's not going to take much for all that stuff to boil over. The government will be caught flatfooted, as usual.
I think the protests in Texas over the abortion bill shocked the shit out of some GOP RW politicians. It takes a lot to get folks out of the AC in 100+.
It is bubbling under the surface. If people can't get justice through the ballot box, they will take it by force. People forget that we had public rebellions before, just not recently. FDR was able to get so much done in part because The wealthy were fearful about the mob at the gate. We were one step away from socialism. FDR happened to have a set of balls, Obama does not.
LWolf
(46,179 posts)Again in 2004. And again in 2008. By 2013, I am just exhausted, cynical, and filled with dread as I see the sinking and destruction speedily continuing around me.
CrispyQ
(36,470 posts).
.
I live in a fairly affluent area, & this cartoon nails it. The Walmart parking lot is always busy & it has lots & lots of very nice cars in it. Some old cars, too, but lots of nice cars.
Lint Head
(15,064 posts)We have come to feel OK with our abuser. We receive the needed mass produced food, clothing and shelter. What else could a slave to a Fascist Theocratic Corporate Master ask for? Mass hypnosis is alive and well in the form of shiny objects like Reality TV, American Idol, Dancing with the Stars, TMZ and other tactile and printed objects that can fascinate the easily led. It's the glue that keeps the masses focused on anything but the fact that we and our offspring are all being slowly indoctrinated to believe our rights are being protected while in fact they are being replaced with psychological facades.
It's too late to "Follow the Money". The Money disappeared down the yellow brick road long ago.
Voting the bastards out does nothing but replace the poor bastards with another modern slave for corporate money to own. The system has to change. It will not happen as long as We the People drool on our collective sleeves while napping the future away.
ctsnowman
(1,903 posts)is a lot of outrage but the MSM will only cover it if it is taking us farther to the right. If the teabaggers had pulled of a WI style protest it would have been covered like Tahrir square. Same with occupy the MSM quickly pretended they had no idea why those "dirty hippies" were upset.
JEB
(4,748 posts)For a photo view of America see:
http://linhdinhphotos.blogspot.com/
bread_and_roses
(6,335 posts)Locrian
(4,522 posts)That's one of the reasons Snowden is a threat - they fear that a concrete example of something could give people something to focus on. And then they play on the 'target' idea by using HIM as a target to deflect from the real issue.
Bank / money issues are COMPLICATED and it's easy for the lawyers etc to smokescreen everything. Not to mention there is no clear 'evil boogyman' to focus on. Here again, the right wing etc has figured this out: they give us the
* welfare queen
* tree hugger
* minority etc
* lazy poor
* terrorists
* traitors (Manning, Snowden, etc)
Hell, they even throw out a few rodeo clowns like Palin, Baccman, etc to keep us distracted.
Some, fog, and mirrors. That's what it is.
grantcart
(53,061 posts)an electronic game.
The younger generation have more concern about playing a couple hours on their Ibox etc than anything in the real world.
Its rather astonishing at how apathetic they are.
To be fair perhaps the only reason our generation woke up is because of a draft number and ticket to a bloody war.
Rec'd
cprise
(8,445 posts)Some other people live for remodeling or buying bigger houses, etc. Some people rely on antidepressants to deal with their anguish and dismay.
I do agree about the draft: Once Vietnam was in the rearview mirror, boomers voted Reagan into office and resumed the White Flight into the suburbs. Educators from this generation also established postmodern habits of thought as the new Liberalism, leaving the Left without the courage of its convictions or any systems of thought... only technocrats. A week didn't go by where I didn't see a Liberal being shamed (often by conservatives, who picked up on it quickly) on TV over the traces of belief in his/her positions (i.e. Liberals trying to push their pet projects and ideology on everyone else, etc). The more Liberals adopted the "everyone has a valid point of view" attitudes, the more they were neutralized by having every statement or stance turned around and thrown back in their faces (often by conservatives). The rest of the time, they were being made to feel guilty for engaging in propaganda and manipulating language.
Fast-forward to 2006, and George Lakoff is acting like he discovered the importance of framing issues and coining terminology... things the old Left was famous for. (These were abandoned by the neoliberals partly because the mass media coalesced into barrier against Left propaganda.)
marions ghost
(19,841 posts)Reagan was the darling of the WW2 generation, which was in power then. Many Boomers tried hard to vote him out of office.
And the rest of what you say is junk, too. "Postmodern habits of thought"--leaving the Left without the courage of its convictions--wah wah...what gobbledygook.
The left got trampled basically, by the very elements of society we are up against today.
cprise
(8,445 posts)You may think that Boomers = hippies and yuppies, but you would be wrong. The very image of a typical Tea Party booster is a white 50-60 something slob, and there are many more outside that movement who vote conservative whenever possible.
From the LA Times:
In the 1986 Time poll, 64% of the baby boomers polled said they had become more conservative since the 1960s. When asked about their ideological identification, 31% said they had been liberal in the 1960s and '70s, but only 21% described themselves that way in 1986. The number identifying as conservative rose from 28% to 41%.
The ideological reorientation of early boomers that began in the 1980s has continued. Two of the country's best long-running surveys show how those born between 1943 and 1958, the so-called near-olds at the front of the baby boom, have changed. In the 1972 American National Election Study survey, 30% of today's near-olds called themselves liberals. In 2008, 12% did. The proportion calling themselves conservative rose from 21% to 46%. In 1972, 51% of eligible voters in the early baby boom cohort called themselves Democrats and 29% Republicans. In 2008, 45% said they were Democrats and 48% said they were Republicans. The National Opinion Research Center's data also show a substantial increase (18 points) between 1974 and 2010 in conservative identification for the near-old cohort and a smaller movement in the GOP's direction. Those born between 1927 and 1942 changed far less in both surveys.
http://articles.latimes.com/2011/sep/12/opinion/la-oe-bowman-baby-boomers-more-conservative-20110912
The delusion that Boomers are some great bulwark against an abusive establishment should be abandoned. Their numbers were vast and the 1980s mark the first time that all of their number could vote for a presidential candidate. Boomer movement into the electorate shifted this country away from progressive politics.
The left got trampled basically, by the very elements of society we are up against today.
Or blustering anti-intellectual types.
Hotler
(11,424 posts)and all I ever get is excuses about how protest will not work and we just have to vote the fuckers out every 2-4 years. I don't think Americans have it in them to stand up and fight back.
trublu992
(489 posts)beaten into submission very gradual and methodical but ruthless. People don't know what action to take. How come we never discuss actions and solutions on how to deal ?
patrice
(47,992 posts)trublu992
(489 posts)else knew about them every time I bring it up in conversation I get a blank stare. You've given me some slight hope
patrice
(47,992 posts)mahina
(17,659 posts)limpyhobbler
(8,244 posts)tjwash
(8,219 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)punished by the outrage-police.
.....................
FYI, I use my outrage to help a struggling community center to clean out an old building and share the materials with a rural community that is trying to use that sort of thing as a means of surviving without having to support construction of a correctional facility in their area. The non-violent grassroots movement that will have a home in that community center has conducted public forums on the abuse of women that included open dialogue with both the abused and abusers and I have talked with young men who used to have lots of trouble with the law, who have gotten rid of their guns and stopped drinking.
That work is my "hopeate" and I'm not the only one who sees it that way.
xchrom
(108,903 posts)Response to xchrom (Reply #150)
Post removed
patrice
(47,992 posts)should be asking yourself why that is.
patrice
(47,992 posts)patrice
(47,992 posts)somewhat less worried about apathy.
patrice
(47,992 posts)wont' alert on you today either.
patrice
(47,992 posts)mahina
(17,659 posts)Love that little button.
Amonester
(11,541 posts)That's real heroic work.
WillyT
(72,631 posts)obxhead
(8,434 posts)K&R
EvolveOrConvolve
(6,452 posts)It's just baffling that so many continue to vote against their own best interests.
shaayecanaan
(6,068 posts)cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
Zorra
(27,670 posts)https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Occupy_Protests_Map.svg
National monitoring and crackdown
Government documents released in December 2012 pursuant to Freedom of Information Act requests by the Partnership for Civil Justice Fund reveal FBI monitoring of what became known as the Occupy movement since at least August 2011, a month before the protests began.[346][347] The FBI, the U.S. Department of Homeland Security, local police, regional law enforcement "counterterrorism" fusion centers, and private security forces of major banks formed the Domestic Security Alliance Council (DSAC) to collect and share information about, and to share plans to target and to arrest Occupy protesters. Banks met with the FBI to pool information about participants of the Occupy movement collected by corporate security, and the FBI offered to bank officials its plans to crush Occupy events that were scheduled for a month later.[346][348] FBI officials met with New York Stock Exchange representatives on 19 August 2011, notifying them of planned peaceful protests.[349] FBI officials later met with representatives of the Federal Reserve Bank of Richmond and Zions Bank about planned protests.[349] The FBI used informants to infiltrate and monitor protests; information from informants and military intelligence units was passed to DSAC, which then gave updates to financial companies.[350] Surveillance of protestors was also carried out by the Joint Terrorism Task Force.[351][352] DSAC also coordinated with security firms hired by banks to target OWS leaders.[353] On May 20, 2013, the Center for Media and Democracy and DBA Press released a special report, "Dissent or Terror: How the Nation's 'Counter Terrorism' Apparatus, in Partnership with Corporate America, Turned on Occupy Wall Street."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Occupy_movement
Everyone is invited to share in the outrage next time we hit the streets.
Hope to see you there, we need you.
tiredtoo
(2,949 posts)And it is being displayed in N.Carolina on Mondays. And In Detroit at rallies in fast food restaurants. And by the brave souls bringing attention to Walmart's practices and by the many Wisconsinites joining together in opposition to Walkers devious way of governing and in Michigan with the growing number of people supporting one term nerd bumper stickers and in the rallies among minorities across the nation.
The outrage is alive and well in these United States and hopefully it will continue to grow as we approach the mid term elections. It is up to us to keep the fires burning in any way we can. And to maintain focus on the root of our suffering and pain.
alittlelark
(18,890 posts)13 years of outrage overload.... guessin' some RW think tank orchestrated it years ago.......
Fortunately some of us are still engaged.
Kablooie
(18,634 posts)I'm really not trolling here.
Outrage and revolution come from inadequate living conditions.
If someone else makes an unreasonably huge salary but you still make enough to survive without undue suffering, you might feel disgusted but it wouldn't be enough to push you over the edge.
We hear about the terrible plight of so many Americans but could it be exaggerated? Might there be fewer people in seriously difficult conditions than is reported?
I'm not saying that this is how it is. I'm just bringing it up as a possible suggestion as to why we haven't had more outrage.
We can see clearly the inequities but they may not have driven down the living conditions of enough people to the level that instigates an uprising.
Blanks
(4,835 posts)There are still a lot of people who spend their free time on the lake, or drinking beer and watching sports.
Even if they are living on somebody else's couch; that's much different than living in a cardboard box. It isn't the same thing to have a looming house payment or looming student loans - so that you're working all the time, as it is to be in a constant state of misery.
I don't think you're trolling, I think you make a good point. It would be easy to gather up the folks living under the overpass to fight a revolution, getting folks to turn off the Patriots game and fight a revolution is gonna be more difficult.
City planners and city councils keep the homeless away from the 'civilized people' so I don't think most people even come into contact with the least fortunate among us as long as they aren't involved with some kind of compassion activity.
tomp
(9,512 posts)this is why it was SOOOOOO important to denigrate and suppress the occupy movement (and other progressives).
NRaleighLiberal
(60,014 posts)The answer lies in "all of the above" - because it varies widely for people, from extreme for those who are the most impacted by so many bad policies and decisions and circumstances, to mild if one is fortunate enough to live in comfort while viewing the mess from a distance. My first personally experienced outrage was observing the election of Reagan and the damage he did for two terms - and watching so much of the public turn him into a god. The outrage meter has varied from moderate to full on 11 since then.
I do believe major root causes are apathy from exhaustion/outrage overload, and the numbing effect of TV and other forms of entertainment (which includes no small amount of propaganda). Also, when blatant crimes go unpunished (essentially the whole Bush presidency, including his "election" , it opens the door for moral decay - we now expect that the more visible and heinous the crime, all it takes is power and money.
My wife and I find ourselves in an add spot - though the corporate world spit me out and kicked me to the gutter in 2008, I had enough in years and savings that we can make a go of it being mostly disconnected. So even though our outrage is real, it is muted because it doesn't hit us nearly as directly as our two girls - we have outrage for them and the world that they will need to navigate.
Great question, no simple answer....