Two wars--- 12 years....Obama is about to end that.

[trumad]

That is the number one reason I voted for him.

[bowens43]

1. LOL! Seriously?

[trumad]

5. fucking A I'm serious!

[kenny blankenship]

53. He's been "ending" Afghanistan for longer than it took us to defeat Germany & Japan in WWII

LOL is indeed the appropriate response here.

[tblue]

58. Prolly. But it's better than nothing.

Yaaaay. I just hope it's real.

[cali]

2. after a surge in Afghanistan that accomplished nothing

after 4.5 years in office. after spending another trillion or so. after more deaths and severe injuries of American troops. Iraq is on the verge of civil war. In Afghanistan the Taliban is ascendant.

It's about time

[trumad]

6. Clockwork

He got us out of Iraq and now he's getting us out of Afghanistan.

Oh..but to the Obama hating trolls its just not fast enough.

[liberal_at_heart]

7. cali is no troll. Just because someone disagrees with you it does not make them a troll.

[cali]

11. thanks. trumad has a strange fixation on me.

[trumad]

12. Never called her a troll

Just someone who shits on Obama every chance they get.

[Bradical79]

36. Sure you did

It's right there in the reply, though of course you imply it and then deny you were talking about the person you replied too. You really are incredibly dishonest, and stupid too, if you think it's somehow not obvious what you are saying.

[cali]

10. I realize this will fall on purposefully and obtusely deaf ears, trumad

but far from hating President Obama, I like him. And when he does something that I support, I'm eager to voice my approval, as I did this morning in rigster's op about President Obama reducing the deficit. Why you've chosen me to harp on, when there are actually people here who don't have anything positive to say about him, is a mystery to me- though not one interesting enough to try and solve.

I believe you are the most childish poster on DU. Honestly, it's like trying to hold a discussion with a cranky 4 year old.

And as for the silly "nyah, nyah, you're a troll, cali", well just about the only DUer who buys that is.... you.

go to your room and take a nap.

[trumad]

16. Never called you a troll

but seriously--- you like Obama? LOL

[cali]

20. oh yes you have, and had posts- yes, multiple- hidden for it. and you know it.

and you've implied I'm a troll- as recently as this morning, dozens of times.

reply to my first post in your thread:

Oh..but to the Obama hating trolls its just not fast enough.

coy, cute and dishonest.

thanks for playing.

[NoOneMan]

42. "He got us out of Iraq"

Yes, Obama inherited Iraq. He also inherited SOFA.

Afghanistan is where Obama's hands were not tied.

[bike man]

50. Wasn't it more like he simply adhered to the timeline for departure that

had been set for quite some time.

"He got us out..." and not screwing up the plan are not the same thing.

[Major Hogwash]

56. Ah, but you forget, that as that timeline approached, the Rethuglicans wanted to extend . . .

. . the withdrawal date from Iraq.
It was in all the papers.

And that is what the 2012 election was all about.
McCain had said back in 2008 that he wanted even more troops to be sent to Iraq.
And he was also "saber rattling" about invading Iran while he ran to be the President that year.

After President Obama was elected, there was tremendous pressure put on him to stay longer in Iraq by Rethuglican members in both houses of Congress.
It was all over the news on tv.
But, he stuck to the original timeline, which is what he promised to do in the 2008 Presidential campaign.

And the rest is history.

[KurtNYC]

3. with a third war? Syria/Iran ?

[madokie]

15. Would Syria be three and Iran four

or would it be Iran three and Syria four
Better yet would it be neither?

[KurtNYC]

19. Iran and Syria have a mutual defense agreement

http://afp.google.com/article/ALeqM5jvkKkWY-GqQi3KUw1bYoR4fBdrew

So in theory at least, our attack or invasion of Syria triggers Iran to come in on their side.

[madokie]

26. In other words we haven't attacked either

Chances are we won't

what if's are cheap and mean nothing

[KurtNYC]

34. See if this sounds familiar -- Syria crosses 'red line' (?)

Washington (CNN) -- Syria has crossed a "red line" with its use of chemical weapons, including the nerve agent sarin gas, against rebels, a move that is prompting the United States to increase the "scale and scope" of its support for the opposition, the White House said Thursday.

The acknowledgment is the first time President Barack Obama's administration has definitively said what it has long suspected -- that President Bashar al-Assad's forces have used chemical weapons in the ongoing civil war.

http://www.cnn.com/2013/06/13/politics/syria-us-chemical-weapons

Deja vu all over again.

And then there is this:

http://nbcpolitics.nbcnews.com/_news/2013/06/13/18940169-us-offers-syrian-rebels-military-support-alleges-assad-used-chemical-weapons?lite

Call me crazy but I see a familiar pattern playing out.

[madokie]

41. As I said we haven't attacked either

What you are talking about is diplomacy. Hardly a declaration of war. We're not talking about the dick and w here. at any rate I'll go no further in this discussion if what you're going to use as argument is what ifs or could be's etc.

[JustAnotherGen]

4. We never should have been there in the first place

It's about time. And I want no Americans left at all in Afghanistan. To include my two cousins. Bring them home now.

And now - no more war unless a specific country physically attacks the US. Country being the key word. If China drops bombs on US soil - that's a war. If some cheap two bit dime store hood blows up a Federal building - that's not a reason to go to war.

[Dawgs]

8. Yeah, real progressive of him. n/t

[1-Old-Man]

9. After 5 years in Office, and one of the wars isn't over at all while the other smolders

Not many fewer people are being killed in Iraq today than when the war was hot and there are only a few fewer Americans working there for our Government. So tell me how much you got for your vote.

[bike man]

55. I do not understand how some will say 'he got us out of Iraq', when in fact all he did in

that regard was to not screw up the agreed-upon timetable that was put in place prior to his administration.

[SidDithers]

14. DU rec...

but make sure you don't comment about how DU doesn't support Democrats anymore, cause that MUST BE LOCKED!!

Sid

[Bonobo]

18. Cheers!

[DevonRex]

32. This is the ninth circle of hell

as far as the Democratic Party is concerned.

[AllINeedIsCoffee]

17. Keep up the good work, Mr. President.

Over half the country has confidence in you.

[morningfog]

21. If by "about to end," you mean "considering" to end in a year and a half.

And if by "end" you mean continue to carry out routine and regular drone strikes on civilian populations, then yeah, I agree with you.

[Bonobo]

22. Nothing accomplished in either war.

And two of the longest wars in US history.

Glad they are ending but let's be honest and admit that no wars can go on forever and these went on far longer than they should have.

[hobbit709]

24. There was plenty accomplished. Billions were made by corporations

[malaise]

23. What's very important is all those

'war on terror' laws can end once these wars are terminated.
GObama!!! Back to the rule of law.
Time to destroy the terror industry and run all these RW contractors and judges.

[cali]

25. seriously? there is NO indication that President Obama has any interest in

doing so. To the contrary, he supports those laws going well into the future. One thing you will not hear is the President calling for a shortening of the FISA Amendments Act of 2008, the end to the Patriot Act or anything else that ends or reduces the 'war on terror laws'.

Sorry, but the President is a strong backer of the 'terror industry'.

And would you like to acknowledge now that you're wrong when you declare that I never supported Obama. I provided you with links that demonstrate that that is an utterly false accusation.

[malaise]

30. Listen to his national security speech n/t

[DevonRex]

33. Forget it. Trumad just got locked out of his own thread.

People can't say certain things. And nobody here is going to listen to an Obama speech. That's my opinion. I have a right to it.

[cali]

38. I posted a link to the transcript. He doesn't mention

lessening or dismantling the web of terror related laws.


oh, and do you support trumad calling duers hater trolls?

[DevonRex]

40. I just don't give

a shit who calls whom what anymore. I thought this was a friendly site for Democrats. I learned my lesson the hard way. I don't give a shit anymore. Act all self righteous to somebody else. I've seen too much namecalling and mudslinging to buy it from anyone here.

[cali]

43. it's a site for progressive democrats

as well as democrats who are more to the right. It's not Obama Underground. It's rough and tumble. It's always been rough and tumble and it you can't handle that, that's something you have to work out.

You don't seem interested in discussing actual issues. And DU is at least as much about that as anything else.

[DevonRex]

44. No fucking shit cali. Try the Obama Underground line

on somebody else too. Just means you don't listen to a motherfucking thing anybody says after you slap one of your labels on them. I won't waste my time talking to you again. Seeing as how you stuck that label on my forehead. See you around.

[cali]

45. I sdidn't stick any label on you.

you're the one that doesn't listen and purposely misconstrues and makes false accusation.

[DevonRex]

48. I am

upset. Terribly upset. If you haven't noticed the deliberately hurtful things being said, like telling people to leave, that they don't belong here, then maybe you didn't understand how what you said could be taken. That's what my assumption would have been not long ago.

I'm not naive anymore. What I thought of as a community is nothing but a bunch of strangers who like to pretend they're the most liberal people on the planet. Can't even see the fucking irony of cheering on Putin getting one up on Obama regarding the NSA mess.

Maybe they ought to find out what Putin has done with his bare hands. Oh, wait. They can't. Gee, wonder why not.

[cali]

49. I'm sorry. Truly.

I have noticed the hurtful things being said. I'm sorry you're upset. I don't think you should leave and I know it's counterproductive to suggest someone grow a thicker skin.

I do see the irony of cheering Putin on. He's no one to cheer, that's for certain.

Again, I'm so sorry you're hurt. I don't know what else to say.

[cali]

35. just read the transcript. Nope. You couldn't be more wrong if you tried.

<snip>

Now make no mistake: Our nation is still threatened by terrorists. From Benghazi to Boston, we have been tragically reminded of that truth. But we recognize that the threat has shifted and evolved from the one that came to our shores on 9/11. With a decade of experience to draw from, this is the moment to ask ourselves hard questions about the nature of today’s threats and how we should confront them.

<snip>
http://www.aclu.org/national-security/president-obamas-national-security-speech

that's the closest he comes and that's miles from saying he'll dismantle the terror, terror, terror laws. He supports them. Not ONE word about dismantling those laws.

You're the one that needs to read it.

http://www.cnn.com/2011/POLITICS/05/27/congress.patriot.act/index.html

He supported this last year:

http://www.aclu.org/blog/national-security/fisa-amendments-act-back

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

27. After the escalation of the war in Afghanistan turned FUBAR.

[great white snark]

28. Wow, he's just like Bush.

In case needed:

[DCBob]

29. Me too. I believed he would know how to take those two disasters..

and somehow end them both without making the situation worse.

[zipplewrath]

31. Really, this borders on trolling

I understand you admire the President for these actions, but surely you understand they are well short of many folks (who voted for him) expected or wanted. He executed Bush's SOFA, and even allowed his cabinet to try to expand our role beyond that (including that Bush hold over, Gates). He increased our committment to Afghanistan for years, and appears prepared to continue to do so in a "training role". For those of us old enough to remember Vietnam, "training role" is not exactly and "end" to anything. Syria, Lybia, Pakistan, Yemen, and drones this president has shown a preference to violent soultions to international conflicts and terrorism suspects. Quite honestly, his "innocent victims" count probably rivals any president until Nixon.

So like I say, your post, in absence of addressing these facts would seem to be darn close to a troll intended to stir up those that have had to endure these realities, and will have to continue to indure them at least until 2016.

[maxsolomon]

37. What a bunch of pessimistic idealists.

Me, I'm an optimistic cynic. Obama is ending both conflicts as quickly as a president who wanted to be re-elected could have.

This country is filled with mouth-breathing idiots who vote out of fear, spite and flibberdigibbet sentiment. If Obama left the GOP an opening to call him a troop-hating quitter who wasted lives and treasure when we were THIS CLOSE to stabilizing each of those hopeless clusterfucks, we'd looking at a Romney Administration today.

I'll take the futile Afghan Surge and insufficiently fast wind-down over that scenario anyday. Walking away from both conflicts in the 1st term was not a politically viable option.

And yes, Drone killings of innocent bystanders are war crimes. Any American President in Obama's position is going to have to murder innocents - it comes with the job. We elect a Murderer-in-Chief. Even Carter murdered innocents, at least through the CIA, probably. Lincoln murdered innocents. Roosevelt murdered innocents. But does a president murder innocents more ethically or less ethically?

I trust Obama to murder fewer innocents than any Republican.

[dawg]

46. Did you just accuse President Obama of putting his re-election prospects ahead of ...

ending the wars sooner?

With friends like these ....

[maxsolomon]

54. If you want to put it like that, go ahead. It's what I expect from DU these days.

A President has multiple tasks - getting re-elected is one of them.

Ending each war his predecessor IRRESPONSIBLY started was 2 separate tasks. Obama said it himself - he was going to end both wars RESPONSIBLY. He chose Iraq as the more ethically indefensible war, and ended it quickly. For Afghanistan, he made a calculated decision to continue the effort. He said it when you presumably voted for him over McCain.

Just like he make a calculated decision to leave Climate Regulation off the table in his 1st term and chose Healthcare instead - risking his re-election. Ending our futile effort in Af-Pak with such haste that he winds up a 1-term president would not have been RESPONSIBLE.

[Bradical79]

39. Curious about contractor roles.

How many "contractors" will we be paying to keep operating there, or are they part of the withdrawal too?

[ismnotwasm]

47. Awesome

My daughter spent over a year of her life over there in the army. I'm glad it's finally over.

[think]

51. +1

[Scurrilous]

52. K & R

[roamer65]

57. The wars in the ME aren't ending. The grand finale is just getting started.

A regional ME war leading into World War 3.