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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsI have so dreaded the outcome of Zimmerman's trial, that I've avoided watching any of it
I've pretty much depended on DU for info.
So this is my first comment on the trial.
I couldn't avoid the headlines from today about the testimony of the defense's expert forensic witness who says Trayvon was atop Zimmerman when he was shot.
I know that's to be expected but I fear that it will have a big impact on the jury.
And here's where I stand, where I've stood since I first heard, with horror, about Trayvon's death. My opinion begins and ends with Zimmerman's decision to follow Trayvon because he was a black teenager.
I think he's guilty at the very least of manslaughter and nothing will change that.
Duer 157099
(17,742 posts)were from Martin.
I can accept that TM was on top and that GZ was screaming and yet I still would find GZ guilty of at least manslaughter.
If they had accepted those as givens and focused on other aspects, it would have been better, imho.
HockeyMom
(14,337 posts)Zimmerman will be free to keep his gun if found not quilty. The latter puts everyone in danger in the future. I hope he doesn't move to where I live in Florida.
Edit: That is the difference between George Zimmerman and Casey Anthony. Zimmerman is a threat to the public.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)The female CNN commentator was virtually climaxing over the super-duper expert's testimony (and no, I am not exaggerating), as if this was the Superbowl of all Superbowls.
It is almost as if this trial isn't about truth, but rather a performance to excite the public about his eventual acquittal.
It most certainly reaffirms my distaste of the legal system, of lawyers and of the media. I've never seen such a celebration of red herrings in a case that should most certainly be cut and dry: a man chased down a boy he profiled due to his race--who he regarded as an "asshole" suggesting malicious intent--and forced a confrontation that resulted in him shooting the boy to death. At best, that is manslaughter. At worst, he is exercising a murder loophole against someone he perceived as less credible (or less worthy) of life. IOW, Zimmerman may of been "purging".
Little Star
(17,055 posts)YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)His testimony should have a big impact on the jury. He has very impressive credentials.
The other dude was kind of a doofus.
cali
(114,904 posts)--you "fear" that his testimony will have a big impact? The jury's job is to weigh the testimony to get at the truth in order to make a fair and wise decision. Do you think they should disregard ALL of the defense witnesses, just because you have decided that Z should be found guilty?
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Their job is to determine if there is reasonable doubt. "The truth" may or may not have anything to do with a concocted fantasy that a boy shot in the heart voluntarily moved his arms in an unusual position 15 seconds after his death. That is a slight possibility to corroborate a fantasy explanation that is not being even directly presented by the killer in the trial.
This case now has very little to do with "the truth". It has everything to do with creating enough fantasies that create reasonable doubt by distracting from the fact that Zimmerman chased down a boy and shot him to death. And yes, that is a fact.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)Are you referring to the guy that actually did the autopsy? I enjoyed him. He was precise. Exact. He obliterated distractions. He gave no credence to fantasy, but acknowledged the possibilities. He also was very aware of human psychology and how it impacts testimony, thereby analyzing his own failures to remember things (as other witness claim to) and his own ability to err and change opinions (which are not facts).
He may not be everyone's cup of tea, but he was no tool
YarnAddict
(1,850 posts)--who later changed his opinion about something? Bao? I may have him mixed up with someone else. This is on while I'm at work, so I'm not catching all of it.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)He created a range of extremes of the time that Martin may of lived after the shot--I think he gave 3 minutes as the maximum extreme. He later was personally involved with an unusual extreme that vastly exceeded that, and therefore changed his opinion on the maximum time a human could possibly live after such a wound. This does not mean that Martin lived more than 1 minute, or even 30 seconds, but that if you shot a million humans in a similar manner, at least one could possibly live up to 10 minutes.
He also said you can't really verify this scientifically with controlled studies, as its illegal to shoot people in the heart.
Its not the best layman court answer, but its a hell of a great academic answer.
BTW, if Martin lived any time after this, why didn't Samaritan Zimmerman put his hand on the wound and apply first aid?
brush
(53,779 posts)Last edited Tue Jul 9, 2013, 02:52 PM - Edit history (1)
blowing the trial.
I mean why would the judge allow Martin's toxicology report showing he had marijuana in his system now in the middle of the trial when the prosecution can't bring on experts to testify that smoking grass actually makes you peaceful and hungry (Martin had the munchies so he went to the store for Skittles).
If the judge allowed this then why isn't turnabout fair play? zimmerman had issues and was taking adderall which has a side effect of aggressive behavior.
As far as the defense witness testifying that he saw Martin on top, I don't give that much credence to him. Another female witness testified that zimmerman was on top. Goode stated to police at the scene that he saw Martin "raining down blows, MMA style onto zimmerman (he later recanted that in court and said he only saw "downward movement" . That kind of lessens his credibility, especially since Martin's body still had his Skittles bag clutched in his hand. The hands that Goode said he was "raining down blows, MMA style.
I've been following this since February. . . watched the videos, followed all the news reports of the poor police procedure that night (they didn't even check zimmy's blood), read the pdf statements of zimmy and all the witnesses, all of that. The following is from an earlier post of mine of what is, I believe, a likely scenario of what happened that night:
Zimmerman initiated the whole confrontation by most likely grabbing Martin and trying to do a citizen's arrest. That's when the struggle started, they probably rolled around on the ground and zimmy's head probably contacted the sidewalk that way (not from the 20-30 head bashes zimmy alleges happened. And remember the female Med. Examiner testified that those injuries were very minor and only needed a band-aid.
zimmerman, because he outweighed Martin by 40 lbs, had superior adult male upper-body strength, plus MMA training, used all of that as leverage to come out on top where he proceeded to continued trying to restraint Martin (that would account for the "downward movement" that Goode testified to. And remember, Goode at first told police he saw the Martin on top "raining down blows, MMA style", unto the figure on the bottom. He later recanted that to just "downward motion."
But let me ask you, who would be the most likely one to end up on top in a wrestling match like that? The stronger, heavier male with the adult male upper body strength and MMA training or a slim teen with Skittles still in his hand?
Martin continued struggling, maybe even got in an upward punch or two to zimmerman's face (the busted lip photo) which enraged the volatile zimmerman (remember a former security co-worker of his told about zimmy's Jeckel-and-Hyde level of temper that he saw displayed when zimmy aggressively manhandled a female party goer at an event they worked security for).
The physically stronger and now enraged zimmerman reacted to TM's struggles, which probably became even more and more desperate when zimmerman produced the gun, by firing.
It may have been just for the satisfaction of finally being able to shoot someone, but most likely, zimmerman, with his lack of police training in stressful situations, panicked and pulled the trigger.
Result: Dead teen body with Skittles still clutched in its hand.
NoOneMan
(4,795 posts)That could change in my mind if Zimmerman took the stand to claim his following Martin and talking with him was due to his super-human ability to detect dangerous behavior from illicit drug usage. If no witness can claim outright that drugs are relevant to this case, then they are not relevant to this case. Its a distraction, but one with a huge social stigma.
All these mothers' children wouldn't smoke the devil's weed and wear hoodies. No no no. Now, maybe they might wear skinny jeans and take their mother's oxycotin, but we middle class people understand that is just a passing phase our darlings go through.
brush
(53,779 posts)but "devil weed" can be used as a scare tactic. I'm not holding out must faith that the jury in Stanton is sophisticated enough not to be influenced by this toxicology report being allowed.
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)brush
(53,779 posts)Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)There may well have been blood on the bag, but the bag was in Martin's pocket.
The police report (page 7, item 14)
http://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2012/05/17/us/trayvon-martin-documents.html?_r=0
also,
http://nymag.com/daily/intelligencer/2013/06/trayvon-martin-death-photos-shown-zimmerman-trial.html
oldandhappy
(6,719 posts)I have been avoiding the trial. Was reduced to watching a Bonanza rerun yesterday to get away from the trial and the airplane!! Today saw a great documentary from China. Also reading and knitting lots and lots. Good luck!
noiretextatique
(27,275 posts)i believe they will see right through zimmerman's tall tale.
totodeinhere
(13,058 posts)by other issues. But I take it from reading various comments and articles that some people are disappointed with the quality of the prosecution's case and they fear an outright acquittal.