Secret TPP Deal Would Void Democracy

[cali]

<snip>

Congress will soon debate whether to “fast-track” a trade deal that would make job-killers like NAFTA look puny. The Trans-Pacific Partnership would give corporations the right to sue national governments if they passed any law, regulation, or court ruling interfering with a corporation’s “expected future profits.”

They could also sue over local or state laws they didn’t like. The TPP would cover 40 percent of the world’s economy.

Existing laws and regulations on food safety, environmental protection, drug prices, local contracting, and internet freedom would all be up for challenge. And the decision-makers on such suits would not be local judges and juries; they’d be affiliated with the World Bank, an institution dedicated to corporate interests.

<snip>

He singled out the TPP as a priority in this year’s State of the Union speech and wants Congress to give him “fast-track” authority. -

<snip>

After the Fukushima disaster, Germany enacted a moratorium on nuclear power; a Swedish energy company is now suing the German government. Bechtel sued Bolivia for undoing the privatization of its water supply.

Corporations have already collected $365 million by suing governments, usually in developing countries, under existing treaties, and $13 billion more is pending in suits under NAFTA and the Central America (CAFTA) and Peru FTAs.

Most suits thus far are over environmental issues. But in June 2012, the French firm Veolia sued the Egyptian government for raising the minimum wage.

- See more at: http://www.labornotes.org/2013/07/secret-tpp-deal-would-void-democracy#sthash.fhu88B0T.dpuf

[MineralMan]

1. That's Right! It Will Also Choose Your Breakfast Cereal.

We are doomed, most assuredly...

[cali]

2. Do you know anything about the TPP?

because your inane comment leads me to believe you don't. Would you like to contest the facts presented? Do you contest that they are facts? If so, which ones?

[MineralMan]

3. How could I not know? You've been posting about it

every day, and you know I read your posts religiously.

[cali]

5. So contest the facts as you clearly think the concern over the TPP

is just silly histrionics. Go ahead, do it. And no, MM, I don't post about it every day. I'll try to do that as I think it's the most important issue at the moment.

[sabrina 1]

63. We are not ALL doomed, many will profit greatly, but many will suffer. There is no doubt

about that.

You really should be more careful about accuracy. Sweeping generalizations cause people to question if someone knows anything at all about a subject. So calm down, 'we' are not doomed, I, and you, eg, probably will survive without too much damage.

We are worried about those who won't.

If you would like some details of what this means to so many, let me know, I'll be happy to supply them for you.

[Recursion]

4. People have been saying that since the Jay Treaty

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jay_Treaty

Is it finally going to happen this time?

[cali]

6. Do you support NAFTA?

Do you contest the facts in the op?

[Recursion]

21. Meh

NAFTA has its good and bad points; like most of our trade agreements it's too heavily tilted towards agriculture. OTOH the economy after its passage speaks for itself. I think people get the causality here backwards: trade agreements are responses to rather than causes of changes in who makes what stuff where. NAFTA should have given Mexican farmers more of a chance, but I'm not convinced that would have saved the sector if it did.

[cali]

39. I triple dog dare you to say "Meh" to this

and I disagree about causality. These trade agreements are corporate driven. There's no argument about that.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023210314

[Recursion]

41. Oddly enough I just posted my ag complaint there, too

American soy and cereals need to take a back seat for once.

[msongs]

7. more hope and change from the corporatist lackeys nt

[truedelphi]

29. Yes and that lackey designation includes far too many people with the

Apparently irresistible "D" after their name.

[AtomicKitten]

8. Good read in Good Reads.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1016&pid=67554

[antigop]

18. thanks, Atomic. According to Business Week, HRC took a leading part in drafting the TPP nt

[AtomicKitten]

53. thanks for posting it, very informative

[HooptieWagon]

9. The fascists wet dream...

NAFTA on steroids.

[pa28]

10. I happen to live in a state with an independent streak.

We tend to have fairly restrictive environmental and land use laws here. The idea of a transnational corporation setting up shop with their own set of rules is unthinkable. Unfortunately that's exactly what can happen with TPP

Want Medicare to be able to negotiate prescription drug prices? You might as well forget it if the drug provision makes it through to the final draft of TPP.

Now we've started negotiating the TTIP which is like an Atlantic rim version of the same agreement. Same principle at work and it's set to be the largest trade deal in history.

[cali]

12. yes, it alarms me as well. I live in the state with strong

environmental and land use laws and the thought of what could potentially happen under the TPP is not reassuring. The drug provision is dreadful and so are other prominent provisions. The TTIP is just as bad and happening at warp speed.

Hello from Vermont to Oregon.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

13. We're frogs on slow boil. nt

[cali]

14. this kick is dedicated to Mineral Man

[Recursion]

37. Heh

I see what you did there...

[JDPriestly]

15. K&R.

California takes care of its environment and its citizens.

I do not want the TPP.

I do not want to give up local control over the environment or US and local control over labor and intellectual property issues.

No way.

[TDale313]

51. Yeah, this. n/t

[another_liberal]

16. The TPP is a monster and it must be defeated.

Why in the hell is our President pushing this damn thing, as a pay-back to his corporate campaign contributors? Is he just following the very poor advice of his "economic advisers?" I do not get his reasoning at all.

The TPP will impoverish workers, destroy the environment and send more wealth and power to the already obscenely wealthy and powerful one percent. It has to be stopped.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

26. "pay-back to his corporate campaign contributors"? How about a presidential retirement plan?

Harry Truman drove himself and his wife back to their home in Missouri in their Buick. President Obama is not going to make that economic mistake.

[truedelphi]

30. Maybe Bill Clinton let Obama know - do a few favors

Like this for big Corporate America, and you too can receive oodles of money for every speech you give in front of a Corporate podium, once you have left the Oval Office.

[BornLooser]

17. I've followed this issue for months, and combined with the myriad of other issues from the 1%...

Does it not appear to anyone that they are begging Us to rise up? Anyone? We are being cornered, they've planned it, implemented it, have lined up the shills for cover, and are not worried in the least. They WANT Us to revolt. This has been preordained, I believe, for decades now. I feel myself wanting a bit more than justice. I want payback, and I know that's wrong. We've got more than a little mess cleaning to do, if we're going to save this, turn it around. I absolutely believe that it's going to be the women who make the difference. THAT is my hope and change to believe in.

Thanks to Cali, because Cali works this, and other issues, every day, and every day is not enough, for me.

[LordGlenconner]

19. But do Americans really do that?

In England and France, for example, when things come up that the populace does not like they burn shit down. Look at Britain's coal miners strike in the 1980s, for example.

People here in the US are much more meek, or disinterested. The OWS movement came close I suppose but it was decidedly non violent.

[BornLooser]

20. OWS knew what would happen, they were baited daily.

Yes, it has happened, and it will happen again, unless We can stop the madness. Heretofore it has been the vote, and public opinion in league with the third rail, that has effected non-violent change. Now the whole dynamic has changed, sold as sundry, and soon We ALL will have skin in the game.

[cali]

36. Thank You! That's awfully kind of you to say

No, they don't want is to rise up; they want us to curl up and die.

[BornLooser]

42. You are so welcome, and with enormous respect...

BornLooser.

[Maedhros]

22. How on Earth can any self-described Liberal mock cali for posting about this?

Liberals have been fighting this kind of legislation for decades - it's a standard Republican tactic for sidestepping environmental, consumer and worker protections.

[liberal_at_heart]

24. many self-described liberals are really corporatists.

[Maedhros]

25. ...that then accuse us of being Paulbots.

Ironic, yes?

[truedelphi]

32. Yes especially given that

The "Paulbot" designation is out in full force over the Ed Snowden situation. And libertarians, Tea Partiers and republicans all have leaders and members that don't care for Snowden. There is no single party designation that would tell anyone right off the bat whether that person is or isn't for Snowden.

[cali]

40. or ignorant or they just don't believe that corporate control/interest is a major threat

[stillwaiting]

27. Just because they might be self-described liberals doesn't mean we have to call them as such!

The reason most of them support it is because Obama seems to be lobbying for it.

Obama has pissed me right off on this issue, and he deserves ALL of the criticism he gets regarding the TPP. It is a very big deal.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

28. 3rd-Wayers are not FDR-type liberals

[City Lights]

44. IOKIYAD.

Now that there's a D after the president's name, it's all good, don'cha know!

[truedelphi]

45. Yes, but unfortunately some Republican-lite politicians are also into

These deals. The NAFTA trade agreement went full steam ahead on account of one Bill Clinton!

Less than ten years later, the citizens of California had to hand over three quarters of a billion dollars for the privilege of NOT purchasing something we had been purchasing - that is, the gas additive MTBE. Once it was shown to be a terrible health risk, the state legislature banned it. But on account of NAFTA, the state paid the MTBE firm in Canada oodles of money!

Not that Clinton cared. I bet he was already assured of his $ 100,000 per speech once he left office.

[liberal_at_heart]

23. It's not enough to own one country. The corporations want to own the world.

[Progressive dog]

31. Void-democracy is a little bit overblown

it's kind of like turning helium generators into biological weapon factories, except the weapon factory story got more hype. The TPP can be passed without fast track, all trade agreements used to be.
We already have so many of these agreements that claiming disaster is waiting if they pass one more doesn't make sense.

[truedelphi]

34. Look into the Monsanto situation and then get back to us.

Anyone against the GM vomitoxin-contaminated foods and crops must be opposed to TPP. It will demand that any nation that is part of the Plan allow the GM seeds into their country's borders.

One of the first things that our government officials did to the people of Iraq, while their "new democratic" Constitution was written was demand that the Iraqi people use only GM foods and sees, when those items were available. If that didn't piss off any Iraqis that understand agriculture, nothing would.

[Progressive dog]

46. That's cute, the Monsanto situation has nothing to do

with bilateral treaties. It has to do, depending on time of day, either with protecting the environment, or allowing farmers to produce patented seeds without payment to Monsanto.
I'm still trying to figure out what kind of thought process allows someone to 1)claim that Monsanto seeds hurt the environment and 2) everyone should be able to grow as many Monsanto GMO crops as they want.
Your Iraq GMO story came from hysterical bullshit land. It is flat not true.

[cali]

48. Monsanto itself does have something to do with this treaty

First of all, there are 600 corporate advisors involved in the crafting of this treaty, including ag ones. More importantly, is who is the chief agricultural advisor to the USTR.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023182306

[Progressive dog]

50. One of 600, you're sure one is Monsanto

I can see why they'd get everything they want in the treaty because there are only 599 others.
I tried to find out who those 600 were, Elizabeth Warren said 600 entities including labor unions and NGO's, they probably all want the same Monsanto stuff anyway.

[cali]

52. oh for ffs, did you miss the part about the chief ag advisor to the USTR office

who is the chief negotiator to the TPP?

And you citing Warren? Obscene.

[truedelphi]

54. Thanks Cali. You are usually the

Treasure trove of decent information and very helpful in trying to help those of us who tire of dealing with the uninformed on our own.

[Recursion]

38. I'm glad the ag component of trade is finally getting some press

That's the part of NAFTA I have the most problems with too.

[cali]

49. there's little hope, considering what we know, that there will be

anything positive re ag to hang your hat on.

[MotherPetrie]

33. K&R

[ReRe]

35. TPP must be defeated.

K&R

If PO accomplishes the fast-track vote, and the people are held to one straight up or down vote, then we must work are fingers to the bones to be sure it does not pass. And in the future, these kinds of Corporate treaties should be banned, once and for all, from that time forward. And if we can kill ourselves to be sure that Democrats take back the House and increase it's majority in the Senate in 2014, and retain those majorities, perhaps we can work on abolishing NAFTA and CAFTA and whatever other Corporate Treaty has been fast-tracked through since Reagan or GHWB was in office thru present. Inch by inch, row by row. It's the only way to make the American garden grow once again.

[City Lights]

43. This is absolutely disgusting.

Thanks for posting, cali.

[forestpath]

47. RIP, democracy. You're already on life support. This pulls the plug.

[felix_numinous]

55. How can countries be forced to let in GMO

seeds, when many have passed laws banning them? This will be a fight.

[cali]

56. throught the tribunals. the findings of the tribunals supercede the laws of any given nation

that simple. no fight.

[felix_numinous]

57. And there you have it.

Just wanted to make sure I read that right. I am just wondering how they will enforce this law.

[Waiting For Everyman]

58. K&R

[usGovOwesUs3Trillion]

59. Guess you would need NSA to deal with that tsunami

[L0oniX]

60. IMO Democracy in this country is an illusion.

They don't follow the will of the people. There would be gun control reform if they were doing the will of the majority of the people. Obviously they are not working for us.

[emsimon33]

61. At what point do the citizens of the world go French Revolution on corporations????!!!!!

and the 1%!

[Enthusiast]

62. K&R! Keep them coming, cali!.....nt

[CrispyQ]

64. This is such a travesty. It's like a sci-fi horror movie come true.

But in June 2012, the French firm Veolia sued the Egyptian government for raising the minimum wage.

The corpos are going to be in total control with zero accountability.