Unlike Honolulu, the city of Calgary is not in the United States of America

[phantom power]

Senator Ted Cruz (R-TX), who was born in Kenya Calgary, is visiting New Hampshire to do a fundraiser for the state's Republican Party. He is also scheduled to visit Iowa and Florida, and has already been to South Carolina. In other words, this lunatic is planning on running for president. Do you hear anyone on the right asking whether or not someone born in Kenya Calgary can be a natural born citizen?

Unlike Honolulu, the city of Calgary is not in the United States of America. Unlike the Panama Canal, at the time of John McCain's birth, Calgary is not administered by the U.S. Government or occupied by U.S. Armed Forces. The only argument Senator Cruz can make for being a natural born citizen is that his mom was born in Delaware. That's sufficient, but it was exactly the same situation Obama would have been in if it had been true that he was born in Kenya. If Obama needed to show his birth certificate to prove his eligibility to be president, then Ted Cruz is ineligible. The Tea Party and Donald Trump should be saying that Ted Cruz cannot be president because he isn't a natural born citizen. But they aren't saying it.

Why is that?

http://www.boomantribune.com/story/2013/7/15/14420/4388

[GeorgeGist]

1. Because he really hails from ...

Dumbfuckistan.

[Jim Lane]

2. I think you're wrong, on two counts.

First, Cruz is not in "exactly the same situation Obama would have been in if it had been true that he was born in Kenya." At the time these two men were born, the law applicable to the Cruz case and to the hypothetical Obama-born-in-Kenya case (birth abroad, one citizen parent, one noncitizen parent) was that the child was a citizen provided that the citizen parent met certain conditions. One of those conditions (residence in the United States for at least five years after turning 14) was not met by Obama's mother, because she was only 18 at the time. Cruz's mother, however, was older and had met the residency requirement.

I believe that Cruz is a natural-born citizen based on the law at the time of his birth. If a child had been born in Kenya in August, 1961 to Barack Hussein Obama, Sr. and Stanley Ann Dunham, however, that child would not have been a citizen.

The second point on which you're wrong is to imply that there's complete silence on the right on the Cruz eligibility issue. I look in on Free Republic now and then, and there is a faction over there that holds Cruz to be ineligible, despite how they swoon over his policy positions.

For that matter, birtherism includes subcultures (minorities even within birtherism) holding that Bobby Jindal and Marco Rubio are ineligible, for not having had two citizen parents when born in the U.S., and that John McCain was ineligible, for not having been born in the U.S. The common thread is that they impose a stringent requirement that has no support in the Constitution: The only people eligible for the presidency, in their view, are those who were born in the United States to two parents who were both citizens at the time of the birth. This view has the advantage (for them) of being able to concede that Obama was born in Honolulu, thus avoiding the whole birth certificate lunacy, yet still arguing that he's ineligible.

[Hekate]

3. Obama's mom was not only born in the US, she was a resident of Hawai'i, which WAS A STATE AS OF 1959

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 04:24 AM - Edit history (1)

One of those conditions (residence in the United States for at least five years after turning 14) was not met by Obama's mother, because she was only 18 at the time.

Prior to that it was a US Territory -- rather like Arizona at the time Barry Goldwater was born there. I don't remember one single solitary peep about Barry Goldwater's citizenship.

See, those of us who lived there remember that. My original address ended thusly in 1957: Kailua, Oahu, T.H. The T.H. signifies Territory of Hawaii, see? Which it had been SINCE IT WAS ANNEXED IN 1898.

All my friends who were born there were United States citizens, just like me, except I was born in California.

Stanley Ann Dunham was born in the United States on the Mainland, in a state, not a territory. IF she had been residing abroad at the time of her son's birth, he would have been a a citizen by virtue of one parent being a citizen. However he was born IN THE 50TH STATE OF THE US IN 1961. And I don't think it matters to his citizenship if his mother was 12 years old instead of 18 or 19 or 21.

His sister, Maya, was in fact born in Indonesia ion 1970. Yet by virtue of her mother being a US citizen, Maya was born a citizen like her brother. BUT HE WAS BORN IN THE USA, like his mother, grandmother, grandfather, and so on for generations.

Please do not perpetuate this final little slur about the length of the President's mother's residency in the United States of America. It is not only insulting to him but to every American citizen of the State of Hawai'i.

Mahalo.

Hekate

[Jim Lane]

6. You misunderstood me. This has nothing to do with Hawaii's status.

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:21 PM - Edit history (1)

What I wrote was: "One of those conditions (residence in the United States for at least five years after turning 14) was not met by Obama's mother, because she was only 18 at the time."

It's a matter of arithmetic. From her 14th birthday (November 29, 1956) until her son's birth (August 4, 1961), she was living in the United States, first in the state of Washington and then in the state of Hawaii. Time in Hawaii before statehood would presumably have counted for purposes of this law, but the question doesn't arise in this case, because her family didn't move to Hawaii until after statehood.

The issue is that the time span falls a few months short of five years. Therefore, if she had inexplicably undertaken an arduous and expensive trip from Hawaii to Kenya, while pregnant, in order to give birth in a third-world British colony instead of in a hospital in the U.S. near her family, then the child born in Kenya would not have been a U.S. citizen under the law in effect at that time.

Of course, back here in the real world, she did no such thing. The point is that the birthers who believe that Obama was born in Kenya, and is therefore ineligible, are not inconsistent in believing that Cruz, although born in Canada, is eligible.

ETA: You wrote that there wasn't a peep about Goldwater's eligibility in 1964. There actually was a peep, although it scarcely even rose to the two-peep level. A lawsuit was filed challenging his eligibility. The lawsuit got the quick brush-off and was probably more of a publicity stunt by the attorney bringing it (Melvin Belli). There's further information at "GOLDWATER’S ‘64 CITIZENSHIP KERFLUFFLE".

[msanthrope]

4. Um....no. That winger meme of 'residency' has been debunked many times....try

thefogbow.com the next time you have 'birther' questions.

[Jim Lane]

7. Can you provide any specifics?

The site you cited has quite a bit of information, but in a quick and probably inept search I wasn't able to find a discussion of this particular topic.

I don't even know what the purported "debunking" would be:
* the law in 1961 didn't require the five years' residency?
* the subsequent change in the law was made retroactive?
* Obama's mother's birth certificate was faked (guess it runs in the family) and she actually was 19 when he was born?

Based on what I know, I would disagree with each of those propositions, but I'm no expert and I'd be glad to read any informed analysis of the subject.

[msanthrope]

8. Yes. Ann Dunham had her baby in Hawaii. Your 'residency' meme--that Ann Dunham wasn't old enough

to confer citizenship on Barack Obama is debunked by the 14 amendment.

If your suggestion is that Ann Dunham flew to Kenya, go no further.

[Jim Lane]

9. We're talking about different residency memes.

Obama was born in Hawaii, neither of his parents was an accredited diplomat, so he was a citizen as of his birth under the Fourteenth Amendment. So, no, my suggestion is NOT that his mother flew to Kenya. That's why in my post I referred to a "hypothetical" situation in which he had been born in Kenya.

The context is the OP's argument that Obama birthers (contending that he was born in Kenya and so is ineligible) are being inconsistent in their treatment of Cruz (contending that he was born in Canada but is nevertheless eligible), because Cruz is in "exactly the same situation Obama would have been in if it had been true that he was born in Kenya." My response is that their situations are not exactly the same, even on that "if Obama had been born in Kenya" hypothetical. Under the law in effect before 1986, the length of the citizen parent's residency in the United States was relevant in the case of a child born abroad. That factor distinguishes the actual Cruz case from the hypothetical Obama case.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

5. You pathetic people are like playing a board game with someone who constantly changes

The rules. It's kind of funny when kids do it but obnoxious as hell to hear adults justify that lunacy. "no, I know I just got to go twice for landing on that squat, but you can't . If you rolled an odd number to get there you have to go back three spaces.