And I just blew my stack at an old friend about the Zimmerman case.

[IdaBriggs]

My old friend is a Libertarian. He was a "Reagan Republican" but recovered during the Bush years (who he hated). He is an equal opportunity politician hater, if you know the type. He is a good guy, and he delights in intellectual arguments. We've clashed before -- we do NOT discuss guns -- and we've been on the same side about a lot of other stuff, with abortion and gay rights being top on the list.

Today he posted an idiotic facebook thing about "Trayvon Martin" versus "Marley Lion": both 17 year old teens killed while engaging in innocent activity by opposite race men.

Trayvon is black. Marley is white.

The facebook thing stated Marley didn't get any press coverage, and asked "what's the difference?" with the clear implication race was the issue. My old friend then followed up the discussion with comments about how liberals weren't outraged over Marley, and MSNBC talking heads didn't cry, and how the President didn't talk about Marley (while he talked about Trayvon).

And I blew my stack BIG TIME.

I found two articles without even trying (blunt lie about no media coverage right off the bat) about how the police were actively pursing the murder of Marley (as opposed to treating Trayvon like he deserved it) and posted this

http://www.abcnews4.com/story/18829994/he-was-a
"Chief Mullen said that while they know Lion was at a house party earlier in the night and apparently drinking, that is not their focus as of now. He says they are doing everything they can in the police agency to solve the murder of the recent Academic Magnet graduate and bring the shooter to justice."

and pointed out the DIFFERENCE in reaction to the black boy ("deserved it" and Zimmerman hailed as a hero to some) while the white boy had police wanting to "bring the shooter to justice".

I got madder, especially after I found this:

http://www.charlestoncitypaper.com/TheBattery/archives/2012/07/31/four-arrested-in-marley-lion-murder
"Charleston police have arrested four people in connection with the June 16 shooting of 17-year-old Marley Lion in a West Ashley parking lot. The arrests came Monday after a six-week investigation that involved surveillance video enhancement from the Secret Service and an undercover gun-buying operation with help from the U.S. Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms, and Explosives."

I told my old friend if he didn't understand the difference in the two cases, he was part of the problem. That it was PURE RACISM, and his little picture trying to pretend the two were the same was insulting as all hell. And I told him to back off.

We were both typing so quickly, we probably didn't even have time to respond to each other before the next comment was made. He really felt the two were the same, and then he said Trayvon was a criminal when he started bashing Zimmerman's head into the cement, and I said I believed Zimmerman had the gun out already, which meant Trayvon was defending himself, which is what DECENT people believe, and I wasn't going to tolerate RACISM on my page.

For the record, my old friend has NEVER displayed a racist temperament EVER. For him, I really think he was just indulging in an intellectual exercise, and not understanding just how much of a BEYOND push button issue this is for me. Plus, Zimmerman was found "not guilty" so Trayvon must have deserved it, right?

I'm white. I am so freaking white, I practically glow in the dark. But I have a "mixed" nephew who is 15 years old, and a "mixed" niece who is 8, and I love them, and if Zimmerman had killed one of them, the trial would be mine because I would kill that son-of-a-bitch in a heart beat, and then dance on his blood splattered body while cursing his name to the heavens.

And yes, I know that isn't a nice thing to say, and I pray for the love of all that is holy I *NEVER* have to deal with this type of a situation, but you kill a kid - MY KID - and you god damned DESERVE the crazy.

Trayvon could have been my family member. I am still in mourning about this. Hell, I am still in mourning for a list of children this country seems to have mostly forgotten who went to kindergarten one morning, and never came home because they were in body bags by the end of the day, but that perpetrator is dead. Trayvon's killer is still at large, and this MATTERS because he wasn't the first, and he isn't even the last.

Something has to change.

As a society, we have made a bargain: I give up my right to a blood feud, and my community ensures justice on behalf of me and my loved ones. I am not as strong as a man - it is a reality - and I am not a violent person (despite the imagery I invoke in hyperbole). If I had to kill the meat I eat, I would be a vegetarian; yes, I know it is hypocritical, but welcome to my world. I have to trust the system.

When the system fails, it has to be fixed.

Pretending a dead white boy whose killers will be sent to jail is the same as a dead black boy whose killer is being hailed as a hero are the same thing -- it offends my sense of honor because it is a lie.

They were both boys. Neither should be dead. Both should have justice.

And it shouldn't happen to another child.

But we all know it will.

[JustAnotherGen]

1. Hold tight

It's going to be what those who find Trayvon's killing acceptable are going to do for awhile. Time and again - they use examples of people whose killers were found and are in the process of being punished. Really - it's all they've got.

But I'm glad you are on my side.

[Anansi1171]

2. K&R!

[wicket]

3. K & R

[onpatrol98]

4. Awesome Rant! Spot On!

[MisterP]

5. "attacks on white people don't ever get press coverage"--that was from the Paul Riposte in *1990*!

(or whatever his "Weimar-level inflation COMING BY 1994" rag was called)

[heaven05]

6. yep

[ancianita]

7. You're right. The double standard of effort IS based on a lie. Maybe he could acknowledge

that the system's racist, even if he isn't. Isn't his implication based on the widely shared authoritarian follower dogma that The Official Government knows best, keeps us safe and shouldn't be held accountable; that even if it makes a few mistakes, it's the best of bad government that we should expect.

So, maybe you could tell him that if he supports racist treatment, he should look out not to get contaminated with the racist label in his blind support of government-sponsored discriminatory law enforcement and judicial treatment. That law enforcement must stay under civilian oversight authority over police departments and the military. My two cents...

[SaveAmerica]

8. Another example was group of black men who killed TN couple

At the time of the protests because Zimmerman hadn't been arrested, an article was posted on FB about the men who attacked and killed the Knoxville couple and they wanted to know why there wasn't any outrage about that. That we were racist for not bringing that case to the public eye.

A similar 2 minute search showed that the suspects had been found quickly and put in jail and later found guilty. They just don't get it and I think it's because they live in a black or white world. Details are so quaint.

I've decided to stay away from conversations about this case with people who are celebrating the outcome. It was killing my stomach and I had to step away for my sanity. You might need a break for a couple days, too.

[blkmusclmachine]

9. Bigots gonna be bigots.

[JoeyT]

11. And perhaps you should.

What bigots tend to forget is that the Martin trial received so much attention not because a white guy killed a black kid, but because a white guy killed a black kid and the cops pretty much said "Ho Ho Ho! Those blackz! Amirite?!?!" and let the guy walk without investigating or arresting anyone. With Lion no arrests had been made a month after the incident even though the police were desperately hunting his murderer(s). They also tend to inadvertently claim African Americans have no right to stand their ground: Sadly, in Florida, they're right. That's another part of the backlash. African Americans whose stories parallel the best of the lies Zimmerman told are still chucked in jail.

Sorry if that doesn't jibe with your racist view of the world.

You don't think African Americans are any different from whites, other than being vile criminals that are worthy of suspicion just for the crime of not being white.

[Orrex]

14. Juror #6 reporting.

At Tue Jul 16, 2013, 02:56 PM an alert was sent on the following post:

And perhaps you should.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3273348

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate. (See <a href="http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=aboutus#communitystandards" target="_blank">Community Standards</a>.)

ALERTER'S COMMENTS:

Poster ought to use alert instead of making in thread accusations of racism. That's what alert is for.

You served on a randomly-selected Jury of DU members which reviewed this post. The review was completed at Tue Jul 16, 2013, 03:11 PM, and the Jury voted 1-5 to LEAVE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #2 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Alert, really? Racism is alive and doing very well in America. Seems worthy of a discussion.
Juror #3 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: This strikes me as an appropriate response to the racist post that preceded it.

I say Leave it.

Thank you very much for participating in our Jury system, and we hope you will be able to participate again in the future.

[Orrex]

16. Hey, welcome to DU!

I look forward to many civil exchanges with you during your long meemmbership in the years to come!

[LearningCurve]

19. To a large degree, my thoughts match yours

I also live in an area with a lot of black on black and black on white crime.

[JoeyT]

21. Alright, I'm not going to call you a racist.

"Zimmerman was a normal adult and member of the community watch, also doing nothing wrong."

How exactly is it not wrong or racist to automatically suspect a black kid of a crime simply because it's a black kid? Then to act accordingly and tail him. At the time he started tailing him and calling 911 Zimmerman knew nothing of Martin other than "black" and "kid".

Before you respond, ask yourself if you'd respond the same way had it been a black man in his late 20s/early 30s trailing a white 17 year old girl.

We all have racist thoughts and tendencies. Every last one of us. What makes us racists or not is a willingness to challenge those assumptions.

[LearningCurve]

18. Since when is Zimmerman white?

I need to fix my TV.

[JoeyT]

22. Since he killed a black kid.

White racists tend to work off proximity to their own race. The lighter skin a person has the more acceptable they are.

What complexion range do you think "White" covers, by the way? I can pass for white and I'm considerably darker than Zimmerman. I know people that are white that are considerably darker than Zimmerman.

[LearningCurve]

27. Everyone in my neighborhood would be shocked to hear Zimmerman is "white"

I suspect Zimmerman and his family would be as well.

[noiretextatique]

35. he's half white...is that better?

just like Obama.

[LearningCurve]

37. Neither better or worse

It is less confusing, though. My environment may not be mirrored by others, but I spend a lot of time working in one of the blue-collar areas of the city. At various "Hoosier bars," in the neighborhood, the Zimmerman trial was shown on one of the televisions (sports on all the others). For those unfamiliar with the term, "Hoosier" here roughly translates to "lower income whites." At any rate, when Zimmerman was shown on television, exclamations of "Jorge!" would erupt. One of the "local comedian" regulars, would often make jokes to the effect of, "If Zimmerman gets the chair, he's gonna be a refried beaner."

To put this in context, I don't believe anyone there really cared about the outcome, beyond the entertainment value. In their mind, Zimmerman is latino. In their minds, what they were watching was brown on black crime. I suspect no one really cared about the verdict either way. As far as my experience with apolitical whites in my area goes, Zimmerman is a laughable figure (complete with Speedy Gonzalez voice) that belongs on Jerry Springer. No white person I know is looking at Zimmerman as a reflection in the mirror.

If Obama was referred to as white in this area, I think that most people would assume someone was making a joke or some sort of political statement. Half-white, they'd probably understand the reference to his mixed parentage. The same might be true of Zimmerman if he was called half-white as well. However, in my neck of the woods, just calling Obama or Zimmerman "white" is likely to result in confusion.

[socialist_n_TN]

38. Considering Zimmy's diddy was a cracker judge in rural Florida....

I would say his cultural upbringing was probably lily white.

[noiretextatique]

42. racism makes for strange bedfellows

i don't know ANY black people who are zimmerman supporters.

[LearningCurve]

43. I don't know any Zimmerman supporters

I do know some people who agree with the verdict who are black, but I don't know anyone of any color who has expressed absolute support. Those I know who agree with the verdict, all think Zimmerman exercised bad judgement. Most people I know though, really weren't passionate about the verdict one way or the other.

[Tigress DEM]

40. NOT just like Obama. Obama's mama didn't teach him to hate. nt

[noiretextatique]

41. i stand corrected

thanks!

[Tigress DEM]

39. He's a light skinned half Peruvian in Florida.

And he has the whole "scary black man was walking in my neighborhood" mentality that justified pursuing someone with a gun, getting out of the car against 911 dispatch advise and shooting an unarmed person.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/muhammed-malik/the-killing-of-trayvon-ma_b_1397035.html

snip>
In Arizona, George might have been the one profiled, pulled over because of his clearly Latino features. The police might have detained him for deportation if he didn't happen to have his state-issued ID on him. However, part of the uniqueness of Florida is that it celebrates the borderline whiteness of Spanish-speaking descendants, while most black communities remain disenfranchised, which allows them to maintain a certain feeling of superiority and entitlement. This is especially true where conservative power in the white Cuban community colludes with the right-wing U.S. agenda of opposition and embargos in Cuba. Those who can "pass," like George, begin to harbor contempt and even resentment against those who are black because they threaten that false superiority and entitlement complex.



I have been told by Puerto Ricans that it is the same there. Light skin is more privileged and dark skin treated less so.

[Paulie]

12. Um. Welcome to DU

[FourScore]

17. I remember when I did my first post on DU.

I had lurked for a while. I was a little nervous. I think I wrote something pretty innocuous, much like sticking my toe in water to feel the temperature...I honestly don't remember the topic, but I do remember the response...lots of "welcome to Du" posts with waving smilies. It felt good.

I'm noticing you're not getting many of those.

[OneGrassRoot]

25. Oh, yeah, welcome to DU!

(no snark...not yet, at least)

[OneGrassRoot]

24. Edit: Rather than hello, it's "good-bye" purplereign...

Last edited Tue Jul 16, 2013, 07:04 PM - Edit history (1)

LOL...geesh, they leave so quickly.

* * * *

To be perfectly honest, I hadn't heard about the Marley Lion case until today (yes, I realize that's part of your point). I also haven't read the few articles I've seen posted, so I'm hoping you can answer a few questions for me.

1. In your view, was the Marley Lion case mishandled by the police? Again, I'm asking out of ignorance, not having read the detailed reports about what transpired between the time of the murder and arrest.

2. Are you saying that homicides committed by black people against white people are mishandled, or go without punishment, more than the reverse?

Even the black community acknowledges the overwhelming number of black-on-black homicides.

Thanks.

[JoeyT]

13. I feel you.

I've been avoiding stupid people I know because I'm too angry to be gentle with them. I've even mostly avoided threads about the trial here on DU for fear I'd say something nasty to someone about it.

[Pretzel_Warrior]

26. 5 star rant, Ida

[OneGrassRoot]

28. self-delete. Poor choice on my part...

It was about guns and our gun culture, but I'm too tired to veer into that debate.

My apologies, Ida.

[okieinpain]

31. once again to be a zimmerman

Supporter you have stretch reality to defend the guy. i would really love to stop one of these zimmerman supports walking down the street with a gun on my hip and demand they tell me what they are doing on my street.

Does anyone want to guess what would happen. Lol.

[noiretextatique]

34. pretense and convoluted thinking are hallmarks of the racially offended

they bring up all kind of crap to justify their RAGE about the attention Trayvon Martin got and is getting...it offends them. instead of being offended by the media coverage, perhaps they should be offended by the wannabee cop murdered who killed a kid in cold blood. even the reason why zimmerman claims he killed martin smacks of racism: i was scared but you had a gun, asshole...why would you be so with a loaded weapon. racism and racists don't make any sense...whatsoever.

[Blue_Roses]

36. +1

[Scout]

44. same thing happened to me....

same meme posted, i googled Marley Lion and found the same info as you, and then some.

major differences between the two cases!!

i had a "friend" on fb post lies about rioting too, which i debunked easily, and he got his knickers all twisted, whining and crying about me "blowing up" his fb page LOL.

he blocked me, then tried to bully me with private messages! HA chickenshit. i've got screen shots of his lies and misbehavior, perhaps i shall post them for his friends to see what a lying, immature jerk he is!