President Obama just made history. That was beautiful.

[nolabear]

His heartfelt words about race just now broke me open. If I had one wish it is for us to try to build on that, not by hating the people who will disparage what he just said (and he was incredibly acknowledging of the problems in the African American community) but by inviting and inviting and refusing to hate back.

It's the only way. He's trying mightily to lead in a way only he can. I'm touched and amazed.

This will go down in history.

[madokie]

1. A wonderful man

I'm proud I voted for him

[great white snark]

2. It was amazing. One of many times he's made history in a positive way.

Now we just need people to listen and understand.

[ailsagirl]

77. He has made history so many times

I'm so glad he's our President.

[global1]

3. He Went There - And I'm Glad He Did......

It's about time we as a Nation enter into legitimate discussions on this issue. I'm holding my breathe in anticipation to the reaction he gets from his opponents.

[nolabear]

4. It's pretty bad. But our job now is not to do the easy thing and fire back.

Ignore the ragers and engage every perceived effort to actually talk. Engaging the ragers only fuels their fear, and we can't be seen as just ragers on the other side.

[Doctor_J]

5. this should probably be in the BOG

along with the other 20 similar threads. That will prevent people from bringing up things like torture, AS cuts, TPP, corporate healthcare, etc. His speeches are always great.

[geek tragedy]

7. "Obama saying perfectly reasonable things about race turns out to be an excellent asshole detector"

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023296661

Sorry people didn't get your memo that positive discussions of Democrats wasn't allowed in GD.

[Skittles]

16. that's why he was saying it should be in the BOG

where ZERO criticism is allowed, lest they get the vapors

(btw: great speech at just the right time and deserving of kudos)

[IrishAyes]

159. So you don't subscribe to the privilege of rooms where hateful attacks are not allowed?

Even when you're reminded often that other more appropriate and easily accessible outlets exist in DU for you and others to vent?

Hmmm.... Makes me wonder how much tolerance for opposite opinions exists in GD and other groups seemingly dedicated to trashing the Democratic party itself, President Obama in particular. If I had to guess, I'd say ZERO. Does that sound hypocritical to anyone besides me, when people want to crash a place, crap all over it, and expect to be patted on the head like a good little philistine?

[Skittles]

169. bullshit - they are NOT all "hateful attacks"

the BOG boots you simply for POINTING OUT that Democrats (SUPPOSEDLY) do not act like goose steppers

[IrishAyes]

172. Oooo... thy bile art showing.

[Skittles]

173. oh gawd

resume swooning; DONE HERE

[Hissyspit]

83. Assholes can be found on all sides of the arguments.

But is it really helpful to be calling people assholes?

President Obama always gives good speeches. I like what he said and I'm glad he said it.

But at this point the disparity between his leadership and his speeches is a legitimate criticism.

He gave an excellent discussion on race right before he was elected, and he just had had another one. Good. I agreed with everything he said.

[geek tragedy]

87. Doing nothing but complain even when he does something right indicates

that a person is interested in complaining moreso than any substantive concerns. Note that this comment is not directed at you.

[loudsue]

146. Thank you, Hissyspit.

"Legitimate criticism" is considered "you're with the terrorists" around here. I'm glad I voted for Obama, because the other republicans (McCain and Romney) were even more to the right.

Obama has actually done some really great things, that will likely be UN-done when he is gone, because those further to the right have the majority of the right wing extremist/think-tank/military/corporate money behind them. I'm glad we had him as our first black president. I hope our next black president, or female president, can manage to lean further to the left, and get the country moving back in a more equitable direction than support of the robber barons.

[1StrongBlackMan]

103. LOL …

Now, pardon me while I clean off my key-board and monitor and explain to my co-workers why I burst out laughing.

I really do wish folks would post a “PUT DOWN YOUR COFFEE” alert for these kind of posts!

[treestar]

111. +1

That post shows they really think they've taken over the board. And undermined its purpose.

[Sheepshank]

117. so correct!!!!

word

[Hekate]

132. I sincerely believe that, treestar.

[nolabear]

25. I don't understand. Is GD unavailable for discussing a president's comments?

The problem as I see it with dogpiling everything Obama has done that people are angry about RATHER than talking about this one thing is that nothing ever gets discussed. It keeps everything very shallow. Sure, talk about all the things you hate anywhere in GD or anywhere else you like, but my OP was a delighted post at the opening up of a conversation. We can have one, or we can have a free-for-all. Shall we do the former?

[CakeGrrl]

68. Yes, it is available. I think the post to which you responded was code for

"We can't possibly let a positive thread go without mentioning what we hate about the President because FEET TO THE FIRE!!!!!"

[IrishAyes]

161. Nihilism appeals to such people.

They sing a different tune about their own feet, though!

[allin99]

37. i think dislike quite a few thing re: BO, but even with the little i've heard re: this speech...

i am very pleasantly surprised and happy about it, but doesn't mean i'm over everything i think he needed to do and didn't. I doubt anyone who is upset about torture, etc, is going to let those issues go, cuz clearly they were willing to address them in the first place.

and the live for obama no matter what crowd is gonna be the BOG crowd no matter what so they were never gonna bring it up the things you mentioned anyway.

[Cali_Democrat]

64. You mad?

[Number23]

102. Ain't he always? But yes, this type of non-stop carping is just "holding his feet to the fire"

according to some. Even patting the man on the back for something he did right "belongs only in the BOG."

And they can never understand why some would wonder if there are other motives for this type of behavior.

[Summer Hathaway]

136. Yes.

It is the "other motives" that certain PTB refuse to recognize.

Shouldn't the TOS be changed to reflect what is now considered appropriate on a Democratic-supporting website - like consistently allowing the bashing of the Democratic president, or permitting the idea to be declared, over and over, that his Democratic supporters should stay in The BOG?

[IrishAyes]

163. When bashers suggest President Obama's supporters should be CONFINED to the BOG

Isn't that a form of segregation? Doesn't sound very progressive to me. GD is a debate forum where vigorous though ethical debate should be welcomed, as opposed to the BOG, which is a support group legitimately reserved for that very purpose: SUPPORT. Nothing too hard to understand about that. But here's the thing - certain people with thugish behavior have no concept of decency. They may self-describe as brave progressives, but in general they're neither. More like wolves in sheep's clothing.

[rhett o rick]

107. But the problem with posting in the BOG, is that you cant stir up the shit. You have to venture out

into GD to do that. Then the righteous can smite the demon liberals that want more than rhetoric.

"It's just rhetoric until something gets done."

[Summer Hathaway]

130. So astute of you

to be able to sum up what DU has become - a place where those who support a Democratic president on an alleged Democratic-supporting website are to be considered shit-disturbers when they post outside of their designated free-speech zone.

[Hekate]

134. Riiiiight. "Free Speech Zone" -- I remember those from Dubya's reign!

They had all kindsa chain link fences around them so people couldn't get out and yell at the blivet, and were located several blocks away so they wouldn't disturb any Bushites. Emphasis on -shite.

I think you've hit the nail on the head, Summer and Number 23: In the minds of way too many DUers, this is what the BOG has become -- a little fenced-off place where we won't disturb anyone with our different view of events.

I always thought Bush was a bloody coward for doing that to citizens seeking redress of grievances. It is a pretty cowardly thing to do.

[Summer Hathaway]

135. Yes, it is a pretty cowardly thing to do

And the fact that it is now permitted on a Democratic-supporting website is rather amazing.

[Whisp]

158. Why do you and others like you, resent the Barack Obama group so much?

That you spend so much time in angst at the thought of a place to have positive talks about the President - why is that so annoying to you?

Nevermind.

[IrishAyes]

164. Thanks for bringing to mind

that delightful picture of President Obama in front of the capitol building, where he's smiling and the comment below says, "Pisses you off, doesn't it?"

[rhett o rick]

166. I dont resent the BOG. I think it is great that there is a place for

pure adulation of the president. No dissent allowed. And I dont mind posts in GD about Pres Obama's accomplishments, which there are many. The thing that bothers me is when posters start posting adulation posts in GD on a seemingly regular basis . I question the motivation. If you want to post adulation posts and not get push-back then post in the BOG. If you post pure adulation posts in GD, it looks to me like flamebait.

[Whisp]

168. that sounds authoritarian to me.

thank you so much for your sleight of hand approval.

the i.r.o.n.y. I think I just took an arrow to the ironknee.

[rhett o rick]

171. You asked and I gave you a truthful answer. Your reaction indicates you werent seriously asking.

You fooled me. Wont happen again.

[IrishAyes]

182. Ah, you claim to know everything about other people

When it seems you know so little about yourself.

And I don't mind if you've blocked me. You might not be able to tolerate a minor portion of the disapproval you sling about, and you might want to hide away. But regardless, others can still see. And read you like an open book.

[Number23]

208. Damn. Pardon my language but you FUCKING NAILED IT.

Every word -- truth. The folks who scream so loudly about authoritarians are the first ones running around announcing they are putting half of DU on ignore. The non-stop echos in their little chambers have ruined their ability to discern reliable information from utter garbage. They are also often the first ones not even able to serve on a jury because of their blaring transparency pages. But that of course has nothing to do with their rudeness or stupidity, it's only 'cause they're talking troof to powa.

And now this idiotic bullshit that you can fill up GD day after day after day with the most idiotic foolishness about the president and that's fine and dandy, but how DARE someone actually post something that supports or commends this president because that's "flame bait." I am so sick of some of these people I honestly... let me just stop there.

[IrishAyes]

209. I salute you as my superior in exposition.

At least tonight.

Please stick around. You're sorely needed here. Although if we must vent now and then, might as well enjoy it, right?

[Bobbie Jo]

194. You made sense of that mind-bending myopia?

Some of these folks are sounding more like entrenched teabaggers by the day.

[rhett o rick]

195. Are you calling me a Teabagger? That's what you've come down to? Name calling and ridicule? nm

[Bobbie Jo]

196. What part of "sounding like" do you not get?

This level of batshit deserves ridicule.

[rhett o rick]

197. You are just full of ad hominem attacks. There is no justification to use ridicule in DU. nm

[Bobbie Jo]

198. I look forward to your public scolding

of your contingent when they descend upon threads en mass to purposely ridicule and attack. Quite the tag team act, there.

I won't hold my breath.

[rhett o rick]

199. Dont you have someone else to annoy? nm

[Bobbie Jo]

206. Um, you initiated this exchange

Don't direct a post to me if you don't expect a response.

[rhett o rick]

207. Your first post in this exchange is 194 which you posted in response to my post #171 to Whisp.

Now will you go away.

Come back when you want to discuss issues and not ridicule.

[Bobbie Jo]

210. LOL What?

In the future, don't direct a post to me unless you expect a response.

I was replying to Whisp, with an observation about a certain pack of incendiary posters. That you thought I was describing you personally is.....interesting.

....and I'll come back when I damn well please. You don't have the privilege of dismissing me.

[rhett o rick]

211. I am sick of those of you that wont discuss issues but instead dedicate your posts to ad hominem

posts and ridicule. I am dismissing you. You are on ignore.

[Bobbie Jo]

212. Sounds like a good move.

btw....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3304422

You may want to consider starting with your own damn house.

PLONK [URL=.html][IMG][/IMG][/URL]

[IrishAyes]

225. Tell it, sister! Good for you!

Oops, sorry. I forgot. Every square inch of DU belongs to the rat pack and we're the aggressors for daring to show our faces. Do you think maybe if we're properly submissive, they'll agree to let us vote and maybe even talk on the phone once a week for 3 minutes? Better not risk upsetting Mr. Rhett though. Not worth it. You and I, let's remember our place so the likes of him won't question our virtue.

[Bobbie Jo]

228. I haven't been sent

to my room since I was 12.

[IrishAyes]

230. I'm gonna watch you very carefully, Bobbie Jo

For any further lessons in life. You handled that guy perfectly.

[IrishAyes]

213. Name calling and ridicule ....

Something we've all noticed you never stoop to yourself, right? Riiiiiight.... Keep telling yourself that.

[IrishAyes]

170. And it looks to me as if

you overuse the term 'adulation' when we say something you don't agree with.

Let me get this straight... When you state a positive view of something, that's just plain smart and noble, but when someone compliments President Obama and doesn't faint and shut up when you blast them for it, little ol' we'uns have committed adulation, which clearly indicates lack of perception or balance.

Did I get that right? Because that's what you sound like when you complain that we say positive things about someone you don't like and then we top the offense by refusing to retract, and worse yet we have the unmitigated gall to think we have a right to do so in a responsible manner in a venue specifically designated for debate.

In other words, don't pee on our leg and tell us it's raining. Such a transparently bullying approach!

[rhett o rick]

175. The term adulation has a definition. The constant use of the word "wonderful" qualifies.

And your use of Sid's emoticon for ridicule is childish.

I am curious, do you ever post about actual issues?

It doesnt matter because I am done with you.

[IrishAyes]

177. I'll stay awake all night grieving over that.

[nolabear]

221. I hate seeing a fight like this develop. Not scolding you guys but I don't see the point.

This happens again and again and again and again so it's not accomplishing anything new. If there IS the opportunity to ignore whatever swipe is taken and try to lay down those irritations and talk, why not take it?

[IrishAyes]

222. JFK said, in effect,

There is no such thing as negotiation with someone who says what's mine is mine and what's yours is up for grabs.

Don't worry, I don't let it go too far. If it gets bad enough to bother my very delicate feelings, I try to chuckle and move on then. Afraid I'm more the Rahm Emmanuel type than our man in the WH. But you must understand, some shins just beg so hard to be kicked that I can't always resist. And I only get after people I don't consider really interested in mutual dialog anyway. When approached in a decent manner, I can be meek as a kitten.

[nolabear]

223. I know, and I know it's just a discussion thread, but it was also my experiment

in pushing against the urge to just get mad and throw in everything but the kitchen sink, and for the most part we did pretty well. I'm not saying you did anything wrong, either of you, but I had been hoping for something more. I say that at the risk of sounding like I'm objecting more than I am; your subthread was part of what DU is about too.

[IrishAyes]

224. I applaud your lofty intentions

and regret wherever I might have let you down. I try - whether it shows or not - to avoid 'kitchen sink' tactics, as they're generally a distraction at best. But just as there's a hazard called mission creep, human interaction tends to (let's call it) expand. The more people involved, the likelier things will spread. I'm sure you know that. What I'm not sure you're considering at this point is the absolute futility of rational dialog with pot stirrers. That indication of willingness to talk even a little is often just bait. Not hands reaching across the aisle. Bait.

I too would like to see a world where that isn't the case. But when I get the first whiff of a boatload of offal in the offing (your sniffer may differ), well, I don't play around with such people. At this point, after an incredibly stressful week of my own, I don't even remember exactly what first raised my hackles at this other person. But I will go back and re-read the entire thread to refresh my memory and further digest whatever is there to learn.

Unfortunately this past week, too much tends to make me think of my sister, whose every approach is little more than baiting. Besides JFK, even Paul Krugman admits there's no dealing with certain groups. President Obama's efforts at bipartisanship have been noble and sincere, but I question how much even he expected them to bear anything more than bitter fruit. The main value I see in his doomed efforts to effect actual, mutual benefits in that regard is how sharply it defined the GOP intractability. If HE can't lead them out of the forest, nobody can. Not his fault. Theirs. No honest, good faith negotiation possible with people hellbent on destruction.

[nolabear]

229. Oh I'm far from naive. And I know how family can get on your last nerve.

I think my solution to dealing with certain groups is to just ignore them and not give them more energy. They tend to fade out much faster if they're just watched carefully so they don't get dangerous but not engaged.

Like I said, it's not personal. You haven't let me down. You've added to the dialogue...or multilogue...or whatever you'd call it.

[IrishAyes]

231. Well, I didn't mean to suggest you're naive in the least

I admire your patience and so on. It's very good advice not to get sucked into protracted arguments that are guaranteed to be endless. I just have less patience with those people. Though I seldom play ping pong with them for more than a few swipes, occasionally my backhand needs a little extra practice. When that coincides with someone who needs more exposure, that day I might be happy to oblige. I don't care when they froth at the mouth because they teach people by example just how ugly they can be and the end result of their approach to the world. I leave the original baiting to them. But they can always be counted on to pounce, because they're predatory. I don't pet predators of any kind.

BTW, a lot of them will scream "You're on ignore!" (my sister's version of "you're dead to me&quot when they don't really do it; their paranoia and unhealthy huge need for approval will drive them to lurk. Sooner or later their bile overflows and they pounce again. They don't seem to realize that not only are their threats of ignoring ineffective but also transparent as glass. I'm not saying nobody really 'ignores', I'm saying a lot of them lie about it.

[nolabear]

232. LOL! I'm waaaaaay too nosey to ever ignore anyone.

I did defriend one guy on FB, who I knew years back and who hijacked every political comment and went on so much he drove everyone else away. Poor bastard died of a brain tumor not long after. I'd have felt bad about it but the poor guy got unbearable, whether it was his fault or not, and he was in my space. Around here it's public so I figure everyone has a right.

[IrishAyes]

227. Believe it or not, I did go back and re-read the whole thread

And as suspected, it was indeed Mr. Rhett who more than earned a little kick on the shins. He's probably 'ignored' me by now, but it wasn't really necessary because he ignores whatever anyone says to him (other than that adulation he claims to abhor) unless he's dumping on them for it. Must get awful lonesome up there on such a high perch. I guess the rare atmosphere could wreck havoc on the human brain.

[PragmaticLiberal]

191. But why would a thread acknowledging something positive about the POTUS stir shit up?

That's what I'd like to know.

[Raine1967]

116. Hmm. No.

This is incredulous.

GD has with this very post, jumped the Shark that got killed at the end of Sharknado.

(sorry for the lack of spoiler warnings.)

I blame Fonzi.

[Wednesdays]

154. AUGH!! You just now spoiled Sharknado for me!!

How can I possibly go on living!?

[Raine1967]

156. ROFL!

I will live with this guilt for the rest of my days.

...Or until Sharknado 2.

[DevonRex]

6. Everyone is talking about it in historic terms. And he did it in such a simple setting.

No flourishes. Yet powerful. And he did what a President has to do: he kept a line between what he expressed today on the issue and what the Justice Department is doing in its investigation. That is very, very important and as it should be - for justice.

[arcane1]

101. Exactly. He didn't "interrupt our regularly scheduled broadcast" to make these remarks.

He did it in a setting that most people are unaware of.

It was perfect.

I agree with some of the other posters: don't waste time engaging the ragers, for they will never change. But the rise of equality and sensibility IS growing, and it should be nurtured and watered and fertilized.

[freshwest]

215. +1

[IrishAyes]

165. What you said.

[OneGrassRoot]

8. Yes, it was. I applaud his courage tremendously, and I'm grateful. n/t

[Cracklin Charlie]

11. Courage.

The man's courage is what inspired me to vote for him in 2008.

[LWolf]

9. How about a link?

Especially if there is a link to a transcript.

[MNBrewer]

10. Nah, you're just supposed to nod your head in agreement and say

"Yes, yes. Isn't he just AMAZING?" regardless of what the topic may be.

[lunatica]

17. Your bitterness must be painful

I feel sorry for you.

Well, not really.

[ehrnst]

41. +10 (nt)

[MNBrewer]

61. Yes, yes. Aren't I just TERRIBLE?

[Sheepshank]

118. no, not terrible...more petty

[MNBrewer]

144. Truly, yes. Petty, petty, petty.

[IrishAyes]

174. More's the pity.

[nolabear]

22. No, that's not true. I don't feel that way at all.

Why use this to be angry instead of actually talking about it? Let us try.

I dislike much of what President Obama has done. But this was positive and eloquent.

Btw the reason there was no link is that none existed at the time.

[geek tragedy]

24. "Obama saying perfectly reasonable things about race turns out to be an excellent asshole detector"

Jamison Foser on Twitter.

http://twitter.com/jamisonfoser

[IrishAyes]

176. Oooo, Twitter

Where the intellectual elite gather to expound wisdom. Very impressive indeed! Next thing we know, Facebook will be a font of glory.

[geek tragedy]

178. Not sure why you're being so sarcastic--the quote would seem to be on your side

of the argument.

[IrishAyes]

200. Sorry about the tardiness of my reply here.

But it's Twitter itself more than anything that I tend to disparage. Sound-bytes are hardly recognizable as real communication to an old fart like myself who grew up on and revels in long books and such series as the 11-volume Story of Civilization. By and large Twitter seems to me nothing more than a vast crowd all yelling at once in many voices, none of them making much sense. Even if they might have something worth listening to, at best it's like tossing premium popcorn into the air and catching it for your dinner instead of taking the time to cook a real meal, then sit down and savor it.

Generational differences, perhaps. You're as welcome to yours as I am fond of my own.

[geek tragedy]

202. The point wasn't to brag up Twitter, but rather to attribute the quote properly

so people could find it.

[IrishAyes]

205. I accept that.

Though somewhat conditionally. The damned thing is there in our faces, and people use it. I just happen to react towards that modern plague the way Ambrose Bierce did the telephone. A Tower of Babel, therefore not a good source for facts or learning, only a way to prove (if the account wasn't hacked) what a person said rather than the possible worthiness of the quote. A quadrillion or so human beings all yammering at each other in simultaneous sound bytes qualifies as noise, not real communication.

And that was MY point, however it might have failed to dovetail with yours.

The one thing I will give Twitter credit(?) for is its facilitation of obscure code language in the service of dissident movements that otherwise would find it harder if not impossible to circumvent power plays of the establishment. Yet even that is a two-edged sword.

[Life Long Dem]

29. And I do

Maybe in my view because he has white race in him.

[IrishAyes]

167. Again, re the poster of President Obama in front of the capitol building

With the comment below, "Pisses you off, doesn't it?" That seems to apply to you. Good, I wouldn't want it any other way.

[Spazito]

12. Link to video of his comments...

http://www.ktvz.com/news/politics/Obama-speaks-out-on-Zimmerman-verdict/-/4894412/21063568/-/n0q2x9z/-/index.html

Link to full transcript:

http://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/president-obamas-remarks-on-trayvon-martin-full-transcript/2013/07/19/5e33ebea-f09a-11e2-a1f9-ea873b7e0424_story.html

[LWolf]

13. Thanks.

The transcript was worth reading. He did well.

[Spazito]

14. You're welcome, and yes, he did exceedingly well n/t

[laundry_queen]

44. Ew whatever you do don't read the comments after the transcript

and people wonder why there's a race issue.

Thanks for posting the link though. My own fault for reading the comments, now I have to go bleach my brain.

[Spazito]

49. The obscene, racist comments only reinforce what the President said...

on the issue of race. They don't realize they prove the President's comments are the stark truth.

They help shine the light on how virulent, ugly and hateful racism is and that it is very much present as it ever was, imo. Let them spew, they only help educate and, hopefully, activate readers who aren't racist, bottom-dwelling pond scum to work for change.

[laundry_queen]

86. I certainly hope you are right. nt

[Spazito]

91. I posted with hope but, sadly, not with certainty...

hope that this time maybe, just maybe it will be different.

[arcane1]

105. Their "voices" are louder because they are losing, not because they are growing.

I was born and raised in the south. My grandfather used to tell "n*gger" jokes to my dad and me. These days, my advanced-placement-college-student niece has been dating a black guy for over two years. And my republican retired-from-the-Army dad has no problem with it, even though he still votes Republican.

"Baby steps" may seem slow to adults, but they are a giant leap for babies.

[Spazito]

106. "Baby steps", yes, please let there be steps forward now...

what you say is very true and I need to remember it. Real change comes neither easily nor quickly. I am hoping the travesty of justice we saw take place in the Trayvon Martin killing will be a catalyst for the beginnings of that real change.

[IrishAyes]

179. Thanks for the reminder. We too easily forget.

[BobbyBoring]

149. OMG

Why don't I listen! For the rest of you, PLEASE DON'T READ THE FUCKING COMMENTS!

[Whisp]

184. I don't need to. There has been practice enough right here, although a lot milder

I am sure because of the rules. If not for the rules, well....

[Ruby the Liberal]

72. Wow - that was really great!

The full video is up at the WaPo site now as well.

Thanks for the links!

[Spazito]

73. You're very welcome!

[tofuandbeer]

133. I just watched it at whitehouse.gov ...a great speech!

http://www.whitehouse.gov/blog/2013/07/19/president-obama-trayvon-martin-could-have-been-me

[pacalo]

81. Thanks to nolabear for her thoughts on Obama's speech & opening it up for discussion...

but my recommend for this thread goes to you, Spazito, for giving those of us who knew nothing about this some back-up info.

This was the best part for me:

Along the same lines, I think it would be useful for us to examine some state and local laws to see if it -- if they are designed in such a way that they may encourage the kinds of altercations and confrontations and tragedies that we saw in the Florida case, rather than defuse potential altercations.

I know that there’s been commentary about the fact that the stand your ground laws in Florida were not used as a defense in the case.

On the other hand, if we’re sending a message as a society in our communities that someone who is armed potentially has the right to use those firearms even if there’s a way for them to exit from a situation, is that really going to be contributing to the kind of peace and security and order that we’d like to see?

And for those who resist that idea that we should think about something like these “stand your ground” laws, I just ask people to consider if Trayvon Martin was of age and armed, could he have stood his ground on that sidewalk? And do we actually think that he would have been justified in shooting Mr. Zimmerman, who had followed him in a car, because he felt threatened?

[Spazito]

84. My pleasure, pacalo!

His comments moved me so much and everything he said touched me to the very depth of my being. I am glad I was able to provide the links!

[nolabear]

85. My thanks too. I posted so fast there wasn't a link yet.

Or I was all crying or something.

[Spazito]

89. I need to thank you! I neglected to do so probably for the same reason....

he brought me to tears as well. Were it not for your thread, I wouldn't have thought to find the links and I think your thread was posted before there were any links.

So thank YOU for posting your OP, I greatly appreciate it!

[nolabear]

92. .

[IrishAyes]

180. Right back to you

[pacalo]

88. There is definitely a dire need for leadership on the points made by Obama, so it was good to hear.

Especially because the media pundits have had total control of the direction of discussion thus far.

[Spazito]

114. I totally agree!

(I love that smilie, I need to use it more often, thanks for the reminder!)

[John2]

143. That is

the crux if the matter. Trayvon Martin's rights were ignored in that entire Trial, by the judge,prosecutors,police,expert witnesses, and jury. That is exactly what the defense wanted. It was all validated by a club mentality of lawyers on media networks, concerning the interpretation of the law.

The organization that spoke out against it was the NAACP,National Black Lawyers Association, and many in the African American community. They do not have to accept that interpretation of the law because they have been accepting it long enough.

This country is changing demographically and the laws of this country need to serve every demographic fairly and not just be the rule of law for one. The decision was made by the groups in the first paragraph that I listed. Most of them. if not all were white and Trayvon Martin was viewed through their lenses. He was this Black kid. A threat to their society who didn't submit to do gooder George Zimmerman's authority. The gun was his authority and they empowered him to protect their society. That is probably exactly what his momma taught him according to his cousin. O'Mara going to FOX made sure of the audience he wanted to reach. Those are all George Zimmerman's supporters. They gave their interpretation of the law and people are suppose to agree. Just listen carefully to the condescending tone of those supporting that interpretation of the law. The law was clear, but the judge edited it according to these so called expert lawyers. They violated the rights of Trayvon Martin to make the law favor George Zimmerman.

The prosecutor never made the argument Trayvon Martin was in fear of this white male following him at night with a loaded gun, with intent to commit harm to Trayvon. The whole trial was about George Zimmerman being this do gooder. The Defense poisoned the well by lying about who Trayvon was. They painted him as this violent thug who did drugs. The exact description given by George Zimmerman that night Trayvon was profiled. The jury and public was exactly what they wanted to reach, and they saw Trayvon as UP TO NO GOOD, which was further from the truth. O'Mara lied. I suggest people read who the real Trayvon was from his coaches,friends, teachers and the kids he helped on social events. They didn't want you to see that portrayal which was kept out of the Trial. If you saw that portrayal, there is no way you can see Trayvon Martin turning back to attack George Zimmerman.

[IrishAyes]

181. One thing I can stake my life on

is that if GZ had been black and Trayvon white, the jury decision would've gone the opposite way.

What the hell did they mean, anyway, with the jury makeup? From what I understand, they were all white except for one slightly Hispanic woman. Damn sure thing none of them were black.

[pacalo]

204. You've made so many good points, you should make this an OP.

It was a case that only required common sense & common decency to convict Zimmerman. I'll never accept the outcome of this farce of a trial. Fixed News & its audience make me feel ashamed of my race.

This country is changing demographically and the laws of this country need to serve every demographic fairly and not just be the rule of law for one.

I truly believe that because Bush was not legally held accountable for all of his upside-down thinking & his crimes against this country & others, his mentality has infected this country for the worse. He divided this country & his base continues to go further into the rabbit hole of evil-mindedness. If a line had been strongly drawn by impeaching Bush or putting him in prison, it would have provided a more sensible atmosphere for Obama's presidency & all of this blatant racism would not have surfaced.

[mstinamotorcity2]

15. I love the impromtu speech it was beautiful.!!!!!

But watching the talking heads explode.......... PRICELESS!!!!!!!!!

[nolabear]

20. But is that as far as it can go? Is that just creating more division to not try to understand?

I'm not humorless about it; I get some glee out of it too, but that won't change anything. What can we do to make this take root as a serious attempt to change things?

[mstinamotorcity2]

23. Far as I am concerned maybe

you should look at the " Man in the Mirror"

[nolabear]

31. Really true. SometimesI don't like what I see and it confuses me.

I have been unreasonably afraid of black men. I have been approached in ways I don't understand by black men. I'd like to figure those things out.

I know how very very "sincere" I'm being in this thread but I'm trying to hold the door open for a while so it doesn't degenerate.

[mstinamotorcity2]

34. Think of tolerance like an expensive wine.

Once you taste it nothing else compares.

[Android3.14]

47. That's good writing

Very cool frame.

[mstinamotorcity2]

48. Thanks

[nolabear]

93. +1

It is.

[IrishAyes]

183. What you said.

But wait; does this mean I have to give up tweaking a bully's nose? It seems like such a little thing and gives so much pleasure.

[leftyohiolib]

18. he made history alright--NSA Phone Snooping Cannot Be Challenged in Court, Feds Say

The Obama administration for the first time responded to a Spygate lawsuit, telling a federal judge the wholesale vacuuming up of all phone-call metadata in the United States is in the “public interest,” does not breach the constitutional rights of Americans and cannot be challenged in a court of law.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014542562

[nolabear]

19. Okay, let's talk. Does his policy on NSA (which I hate) mean that this means nothing?

If so, how do imperfect human beings ever talk about anything? I have plenty of qualities that some people would dislike and that might cause harm. I eat meat, and wear leather for example. Does that mean that a vegan and I cannot discuss women's rights or racial issues until one of us changes?

[leftyohiolib]

21. just a little perspective

[nolabear]

27. Okay. I think you mean that you fear if people are excited about this we will forget that.

Is that right? How can we go deeper into this vital conversation without giving that impression?

[LanternWaste]

32. What precisely are the perspectives national security issues, et. al. provides to a discussion regar

What precisely are the perspectives national security issues, et. al. provides to a discussion regarding the U.S. societal struggles with race?

[geek tragedy]

39. a little perspective on Obama's experience growing up black in America, or your attempt to derail

the discussion?

[Sheepshank]

122. little perspective? As if there haven't been 18,000+ posts on the matter

seriously, every one on this thread has more than 3 posts, the've been here long enough to have seen it all said a 1000 times. a reason to crap on a thread because there aren't enough already in GD.....

[HiPointDem]

138. stop & frisk targeting black kids is part & parcel of the security state. what use are speeches

when your policy is promotion of such policies and of a legal atmosphere which makes such things 'reasonable'?

it's just bullshit so far as i'm concerned.

[geek tragedy]

26. "Obama saying perfectly reasonable things about race turns out to be an excellent asshole detector"

Jamison Foser on Twitter.

http://twitter.com/jamisonfoser

It just burns some haters up when people say good things about him.

[CakeGrrl]

28. You will know them by their reactions. -nt

[geek tragedy]

30. It's hilarious--some people need to bring up "OBama is the NSA Monster who eats kitties"

whenever someone gives Obama due credit for something, or says something negative about Ron/Rand Paul.

[nolabear]

35. But my question is "THEN what do we do?"

Sometimes trying to reach out to someone who is swinging is terrifying, but there has to be a way out of the posturing and into what each person on all sides is covering with the vitriol. Some are too broken to be approached, and they have to be cut out of the bigger conversation, but I think giving them a chance and building a public space for the conversation is what President Obama is trying to do rather than either raging or standing back and snarking with like minds. And that's the only way out imo.

[allin99]

33. I've had to delete a number of people on facebook today and yesterday too.

moron, ignorant detector as well.

[Tarheel_Dem]

36. +1

[snappyturtle]

45. I almost hate to admit it but the administration response to the

NSA lawsuit was what popped into my head. There it was on one hand and on the other I'm happy about his remarks on race.

[HiPointDem]

139. words are wind

[bravenak]

189. My favorite quote.

[dogknob]

38. My current living situation exposes me to FOX nearly every afternoon...

I'm very happy about what the President did today.

And now, starting at around 4pm, I am going to be subjected to extra helpings of psychological abuse over it.

I'd move, but that's just not an option at this time. Guess I'll crank the tunes...

[nolabear]

43. I guess I should see what their take is. (Deep breath) I'm goin' in!

Good idea to crank those tunes. Stay cool.

[nolabear]

46. Okay, I went in. They're ignoring it completely.

Talking about the heat wave. Maybe that' a good indicator that they are having trouble trying to appear fair and criticizing him at the same time. At least for now. We'll see what develops.

[DesertFlower]

40. so glad he spoke out.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

42. Right-wingers were outraged by this speech too...

http://www.history.com/speeches/johnson-on-kkk-murder-of-civil-rights-worker#johnson-on-kkk-murder-of-civil-rights-worker

[kelliekat44]

63. More outraged than they were when he was elected President? It's really not OUTrage

it's continuous rage. They will not rest until someone else is President or until they are in their graves.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

67. I've run into some that are SHOCKED there are white people who like him.

[Ruby the Liberal]

74. The next time that happens

Give 'em my number. This white woman with a lingering southern accent will be happy to talk with the bigots...

[IrishAyes]

185. Quick! Grab a shovel!

[geek tragedy]

53. "Obama saying perfectly reasonable things about race turns out to be an excellent asshole detector"

Jamison Foser on Twitter

[TommyCelt]

51. I like what the President said...

...but if his Justice Dept. is going to pursue charges against the already aquitted GZ, this could be seen as creating a bias against the defendant.

[geek tragedy]

54. They're not going to press charges against Zimmerman. nt

[TommyCelt]

60. Sorry, I've been swamped @ work

...and haven't been keeping up with the news the way I'd like. The Justice Dept. has ruled out trying GZ for civil rights violation/federal hate crimes?

[geek tragedy]

62. No, just seems pretty obvious.

There's no way there's "beyond a reasonable doubt" proof that there was racism, etc.

[TommyCelt]

66. Agreed

[IrishAyes]

186. No, they haven't ruled it out at all.

In fact, they've put a hold on all the evidence in the first trial, including the murder weapon.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

52. I just posted the entire press conference....

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1017133001

[Flatulo]

55. Great speech. I think it's going to take a few more generations, but my son and his pals

are completely color-blind. He's 23 and his circle of close friends includes a black kid and a gay kid. The gay guy came out when he was 19 or so, and absolutely nobody freaked out. They're all as tight as ever.

It will perpetuate longer in the South because of their history, but I think two things would really breaks the cycle of fear and mistrust:

1. The wage gap needs to close. Crime is a function of poverty, not race, but AA's as a group are far behind whites in pay scale.
2. Mixed-race marriages need to become much more common. When we're all a nice nut brown, no one will know, or care, where the hell anybody came from.

[bhikkhu]

115. That's my kids and my kids' friends as well

open-minded and accepting, all shapes and colors and persuasions - I am pretty proud of them all in that regard. Its such a difference from when I grew up.

And then whenever I actually hear racist bitterness and hate it always seems to be the generation older than mine, while mine generally keeps it down to derogatory jokes. Sad for older people, who have presided over so many good changes in their time, but things do seem to be going in the right direction.

[TheKentuckian]

56. He and like minds ruin more lives and dents more futures of black folks than anything he discussed

with his eagerness for the asinine drug war.

[nolabear]

58. I hope that is part of what is opened up from this.

If we stop posturing and avoiding we can get down to really talking and asking the hard questions, and I agree this is one that needs to be worked on.

[great white snark]

69. So this means nothing?

Ungrateful lot.

[TheKentuckian]

147. Grateful for what? Protecting poor outcomes and waste from a system of extraction and control?

Or should gratitude be expressed for the wealth and power of elites being increased while black folks hole gets deeper?

Nice "I feel your pain" speech. The best and brightest of the Turd Way excel at expressing empathy while continuing to increase the pain index. It is what they do, provide different rhetoric while keeping the Titanic on Reagan's course.

[Iliyah]

57. Hopefully so, but the gopers have been

race baiting since Pres O came into office. Look at the tea nuts and their misspelled signs and pictures. Look at the birth certificate issue and he being a Muslim. Constant pounding from the right and some on the left.

This came from the heart and usually the loud vicious ones y'know the ones that scream the loudest are only but a small group but gets the most attention. Majority of America are trying to get pass racism.

[SeaLyons]

59. What a man, what a man, what a mighty fine man.

He touches my soul.

[Junkdrawer]

65. Think it's enough to get Holder off the hook?

I think the African American community really wants some action taken in Sanford. And the second half of the speech pushed acceptance of the verdict.

[M0rpheus]

78. It is not a matter of getting Holder "off the hook".

it's a matter of the truth. Speaking to a reality that the majority know little of.

We may think the verdict is biased but, theres nothing we can do about that.

[HiPointDem]

140. there's nothing we can do about anything, to hear some people talk. can't do anything about

spying, can't do anything about the economy, can't do anything about the global security state, can't do anything about anything.

[M0rpheus]

152. From my VERY jaded view

Last edited Sat Jul 20, 2013, 11:27 AM - Edit history (1)

The Justice Department doesn't have enough to make a separate case. That bar is high on purpose.
What I would like to happen is a completely different thing.

Since I'm remaining focused on this one thing today, rather than NSA, MIC, Snowden, etc... what do you propose as a solution to the topic of this thread?

[IrishAyes]

187. That's the excuse they like to offer

for not doing anything.

[ancianita]

70. He made history by encouraging us to keep going forward. My takeaway is that the work is on US.

Those who want the prez to micromanage prejudice, or take a side on this ruling, just don't understand that doing so isn't conducive to improving race relations. People could look up more about authoritarianism. How social authoritarianism and religious authoritarianism work through the country's schools, families, military and other institutions. There are belief systems that justify discrimination with the ideas of "chosenness," "redeemed," "holier than thou," etc.

Obama said, "...As difficult and challenging as this whole episode has been for a lot of people, I don't want us to lose sight that things are getting better...

It doesn't mean we're in a post-racial society. It doesn't mean that racism is eliminated ... But, you know, when I talk to Malia and Sasha and I listen to their friends and I see them interact, they're better than we are. They're better than we were on these issues. And that's true in every community that I've visited all across the country."

Here's what I take away from that. Sure, we can claim that his kids' view is colored by their wealth and privilege, because maybe they and their father see attitudes and behavior only "getting better " among those of their protected class. But we all should demand better from those to whom much is given -- lawyers, judges, state and federal governments. If they fail, then we ourselves have to make life's map clearer and more accurate for the rest of us, and we act in ways to say back to him that it's not just in protected circles, but everywhere that the young are better than we are.

[Cha]

71. Yes, PBO, is trying to lead on this and he also refuses to "hate back" like

the Martin Family. And, it gave Trayvon's parents "strength" which is what they need.

"We are deeply honored and moved that President Obama took the time to speak publicly and at length about our son, Trayvon. The President’s comments give us great strength at this time. We are thankful for President Obama’s and Michelle’s prayers, and we ask for your prayers as well as we continue to move forward."

http://www.democraticunderground.com/1014542703

this is what it's all about.. not what those have to say to try and change the subject from Race in America.

Mahalo, nolabear

[JohnnyLib2]

75. He took an opportunity that could have slipped by, and did it well.

After 2016, I can imagine him leading the way for many years in this area of American life.

[Blue_Tires]

76. +1

[Bette Noir]

79. I'm just ready to burst with love and respect for Mr. President today.

[spanone]

80. k&r...

[Vattel]

82. What he said about race was awesome,

but connecting it to the Zimmerman case was lame. Typical Obama: doesn't really take a stand but says things that invite people to think that he agrees with them.

[nolabear]

90. I think having the specific and traumatic incident gave it power it wouldn't have had.

It IS unusual for him to speak out as an individual, which as much as people don't like it I think is generally appropriate. But he's uniquely qualified to lead us not into legislation but a greater attempt to appreciate the points of view that shape our treatment of one another.

And imo as a lame duck he finally gets to be black. It's one of his best qualities but I don't think he's felt right about owning it this much before.

Sounded like a stand to me. We need to acknowledge that there is a lot of pain and it's done a lot of harm, and to try to change it.

[Vattel]

95. I agree with you that he took a stand on certain issues concerning race and the law,

and I agree with the stand he took. But he didn't really take a stand on the Zimmerman case itself. He didn't say that the decision was correct or incorrect. He didn't say whether he thought Zimmerman was guilty or innocent, or whether he thought Zimmerman was a racist, or whether he did anything wrong at all.

[nolabear]

96. I don't think he should have. It's inappropriate and he's addressing the bigger picture.

I think he struck a very right tone by not speaking as the president and the head of the gov't., because the process has to be respected, screwed up as this example of it was. He did say Stand Your Ground needed looking at. He'd have done more harm than good if he'd made it personal.

[Vattel]

100. My problem with what he did

is that he did kinda sorta suggest various things about the case without taking an explicit stand. Better to not mention the case at all in my opinion.

[nolabear]

113. Okay, I accept that.

[SaveAmerica]

94. I was yelling 'He went there!'. This is the conversation I was waiting for!!!

[c588415]

97. Pres.Obama is a man of integrity

and that's why I voted for him

[Bonobo]

98. I knew it had to have been a speech before I even clicked.

It is always a speech.

[treestar]

110. I thought leaders were to inspire others

And this is something only we can improve on - it's not like a new law would help.

Not having his back on this proves true ODS. You won't give him credit for anything.

[nolabear]

120. Not always. Ask Lilly Ledbetter and Judge Kagan and my son with the pre-existing.

[geek tragedy]

151. Just as we new it would be a petty whine about the President when we saw your name appear nt

[Bonobo]

99. I applaud Obama for mentioning Trayvon Martin.... On the other hand

But I seriously QUESTION the people on DU who said that Obama COULD NOT COMMENT ON IT because it was a jury verdict and who generally ALWAYS manage there coulds/shoulds/woulds based upon what he does and rarely on what they hope for.

Such an infinitely flexible concept of what is proper (one that is decided only after the action to be judged is taken or not taken) is precisely the modus operandi of the apologist, the rationalizer, and it is a fine illustration of what we mean when we say "no moral compass".

[etherealtruth]

104. This is a conversation we all need

I am exceptionally proud of my president

[tweeternik]

108. Agreed nolabear!

This guy is good! Excellent address Mr. President ..... excellent timing.

[Scurrilous]

109. K & R

[steve2470]

112. This felt equal in importance to the Gettysburg Address

It is a very historic and memorable moment in American history.

[Warren DeMontague]

119. And 25 years ago he could have been one of the millions of recreational pot smokers that

His government still arrests and spends 60+ Billon a year to fill our prisons with.

Sorry, but the hypocrisy is a bit much. Maybe it's time to tell Holder to stop using our tax dollars to send SWAT teams after chemo-sick grannies for smoking a joint.

[Sheepshank]

123. huh?

Obama's speech about race and the application of law is the same as pot smokers from 25 years ago?

Your hate is going to eat you alive.

[Warren DeMontague]

124. Yes, because his point about "that could have been me" is just as applicable.

It's downright fucking hypocritical as shit to have people who very well could have had their lives destroyed by stupid-ass draconian drug laws, if they had only been caught, reprehensibly STILL pushing that crap.

Obama is a smart guy, and he knows better. "Hate"? I'm one of his SUPPORTERS. But when he goes "well, that just as easily could have been me" in this situation, don't you think it's legit to point out that, yes, it could just as easily have been him with the folks being hauled off to mandatory minimum prison sentences because they got busted for possession of something authoritarian drug warriors have decided they shouldn't have?

The correlation is a fucking obvious no-brainer: (speaking of "application of law", not to mention "race&quot and the hypocrisy of people -who themselves once did drugs- continuing the 60 billion dollar a year drug war in the face of no fucking cogent moral or logical rationale whatsoever is patently obvious to anyone paying attention.

[nolabear]

126. You can divert the topic in myriad ways with that argument. Doesn't help either way.

You can go into drones, the NSA, drug laws, Ray Whatsisface (sorry, brain fart) and stop and frisk, and I'm sure others to create an equivalence that, while it isn't false, isn't the topic. THESE comments were about the pain African American men and boys deal with and an attempt to place a wedge in a door that I think he saw open a crack. And I think taking that chance was noble. And he does a lot of stuff I don't like too. But this was wonderful and just might help.

[Warren DeMontague]

128. Sorry, but if he's going to bring up what "could have been me", I can't simply suspend the knowledge

that "austerity" STILL hasn't cut into our 60 Billion dollar a year project to fill prison cells with pot smokers.

[HiPointDem]

141. except that 25 years ago there was less chance of being arrested. and 'three strikes' laws

had not yet become prominent.

[geek tragedy]

150. How dare that black man talk about race without addressing your pet issue! nt

[Warren DeMontague]

193. Right. I just want a pony.

No hypocrisy- not to mention racism- inherent in the drug war, nothing to see here.

[Sheepshank]

203. apparently you didn't listen to speech...there was reference to drugs/arrests/race

now you're just been silly and grasping.

[Warren DeMontague]

214. So does that mean that from here on out Holder won't be letting SWAT teams break down doors to

haul off cancer patients for pot anymore?



...yeah, right.

[Sheepshank]

216. why do you keep changing the subject?

I pity your inabiliy to stay on task ....or even the silly transparent nature of your tactic in re-directing the topic at hand. Your tactics are more what I see on bagger sites.

[Warren DeMontague]

217. right, sure, you've got my number.

I've just been pretending to be a loyal Democrat for, oh, the past 3 decades.

Guess what? Like I said, I'm a supporter. But, one, Obama's not up for any more elections, and two, some of us took him seriously in 2008 when he said to "hold his feet to the fire".

What do you want to hear? Okay, it was a wonderful speech. Swoon-swoon, a-flutter, a-flutter. Great and Historic.

Now, can he do what's right and end the stupid fucking drug war already?

[Sheepshank]

218. you can quit with the martyr syndrome any time now.

No where did I call you a conservative, Republican or anything RW...i said your argument methods/tactics seem the same.

[Warren DeMontague]

219. fine.

but this really isn't about me, any more than the NSA spying story is about Ed Snowden's pole dancing girlfriend.

There are systemic problems and issues, here. And the base hypocrisy of Obama going "that could have been me" while he allows his AG to egregiously continue to ruin lives over simple drug possession, is simply too much for me to ignore, martyr or no.

[JoePhilly]

226. The search for why "Obama did it wrong" continues ...

The RW has explained their reason why ... now we need to hear from the left ... as to why ... Obama Did It Wrong.

Happens on every other topic, why would this be any different.

[NYC_SKP]

121. Recommended (nt)

[tavalon]

125. While I get frustrated at many of his political ways

Obama, the man, seems to be an excellent human. It can be very discordant for me at times.

[SunSeeker]

127. K & R

[BREMPRO]

129. it was a rare and beautiful thing to hear the unvarnished truth spoken from the heart and experience

Whatever his faults in policy or personality, he was brilliant on this issue tonight, speaking without righteous indignation, not just as president, but as a legislator, educator, fellow american, father, son, black man raised in a white world, raising questions and issues with compassion and nuanced understanding...and urging a call to action. brilliant.

[Hekate]

131. Thanks again, nolabear.

Just a late night kick from me.

[DonCoquixote]

137. Yes,it was needed

However, I do hope there is a Silver lining. Obama lost of lot of potential because he walked in trying to be beyond partisanship and race. The fact is, this country has not arrived at some nice post racial, post partisan state, but the BAD GUYS, and yes, I will call the GOP E-V-I-L . are fighting harder than they ever did, and have actively bought the politicians in such a crass manner that they do not even pretend to feel shame.

It is a mistake to say that the GOP wants the 50's back, because back then, we had a manufacturing base. What they want is little less than the old Confederate States where rich white men could do whatever they wanted, and poor whites were kept chasing the browns and blacks to keep them busy.

[MichaelKelley]

142. I think so

yes, I think that he is a good man and definitely want to do some good things for the society as well, after all nothing is in the colors and we all should be good with each other. I am sure he can do this as he is a good politician and knows the right things.

[alphafemale]

145. That was one for the ages.

It will be commented on 200 years from now.

[Rebellious Republican]

148. "inviting and refusing to hate back."

That's the POTUS I voted for!

“Darkness cannot drive out darkness: only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate: only love can do that.”
― Martin Luther King Jr., A Testament of Hope: The Essential Writings and Speeches

[Raine1967]

160. Say what?

This makes little sense to me.

[NOLALady]

162. Obama is black and white

just as most African Americans are black and white. According to the one drop rule, Obama is considered to be African American in this country. Media has nothing to do with Obama's racial designation.

But, I'm sure you already knew that.

[nolabear]

192. I think you miss the point. The subjective experience of being a black man in America

is the same whether the person who suspects, targets, perpetrates is Caucasian, Hispanic, Asian, Middle Eastern, or African American. President Obama's comments were a heartfelt attempt to make that experience real and to put it out there through the eyes of one who is everything that history has tried to deny, and still tries to deny to African American men. America has institutionalized that attitude, whether those who do it cop to that or not. No matter what Zimmerman's ethnic background is, he was acting in accordance with a perspective that makes his actions more acceptable than they should have been, according to law and many peoples' opinions.

[BumRushDaShow]

201. "Hispanic" is not a race. nt

[IrishAyes]

157. President Obama's shining example

has made a definite improvement in my personal behavior. I'm still capable of blasting back at people, but only I know how much less frequently it happens than before. It's been ever so long since I cussed out a Republican, at least not as fiercely as I know how. If you discount the battle royal 4 days ago with the passive aggressive sibling who yanked my chain so hard, as if past history had not taught her how unwise that can be. And thanks to my New-South mom who was a teacher and raised all her children with refined drawing room manners to call upon at need, I can cuss somebody inside out and not really use a single swear word. My damnYankee dad and brothers taught me how to fight, and I don't mean 'like a girl'. But President Obama has actually made me a more peaceable individual. In general. On a good day. Well, it's a long process...

[BumRushDaShow]

188. K&R

'Cause he told it like it is.

[bravenak]

190. I love my president.

I had tears come to my eyes hearing him speak. Our country needed him to speak out right now.

[Cha]

220. Kick for nolabear