Please help me clear up this argument from work

[xmas74]

I constantly hear about how now there is a law (or bill or what have you) that states that you cannot say anything bad about the president without risk of detention. When asked exactly what this bill is there is no response except "look it up".

Anyone out there who can help me figure out exactly what they are even talking about? I can't talk about it if I have no freaking clue what the hell they are talking about.

[elleng]

1. They are talking B.S.

If you must continue the 'discussion,' tell them you have tried to 'look it up,' found nothing, and challenge them to show 'it' to you.

[xmas74]

3. I know it's BS

I can't even think of what the hell they are talking about, unless it's making a threat.

They are all up in arms (figuratively and literally) about the president coming to our town this Wednesday. I don't even know where to begin with the craziness.

[jazzimov]

7. Then tell them that you DID

"look it up", and you couldn't find anything because it doesn't exist. Then dare them to put up or shut up. If they can't prove it, it's because it doesn't exist.

[xmas74]

10. I can't find anything that they would even remotely turn into that.

The president is coming to town and they are all outraged.

[silverweb]

2. Really?

[font color="navy" face="Verdana"]Then, just for starters, how come Ted Nugent and Rush Limbaugh are still walking around? Otherwise, tell them to put up or shut up.

[xmas74]

4. The only thing I can even think about is making threats.

Every idiot should know that you can't threaten the president.

[demosincebirth]

5. If that's the case, all of the the republican nut cases would be in "detention." Don't let then

bullshit you.

[xmas74]

6. The point is, I know it's bull.

The question is:what possible source could this crap be coming from? It's insane.

[demosincebirth]

8. the source is, probably, some shithead at you job tossing shit at the wall and hopiing some sticks

[xmas74]

9. They're all pretty upset that the president will be in town on Wednesday

and are convinced that everyone with a Nobama or Romney bumper sticker will be arrested. Considering this is a red county that would be a pretty hefty order.

[truedelphi]

11. That sounds like all you really need to do is to

Wait it out.

If mid next week, they' re not all detained or raptured, or whatever the be-jesus they think will happen, then possibly they will become a little more clear headed.

Have you tried having the ultimate fun at your workplace? When Nixon was in power, and any one I felt worth knowing was a radial anti-Vietnam war protester, I had all my work clothes covered with little Nixon buttons, for while I worked. Since it was then assumed by many pro-Nixon co-workers that I was "on their side," no one talked to me about politics. Meanwhile I used the company's 800 number to help organize war protests.

[xmas74]

19. I wish I could

but it's a factory and nothing but the uniform can be worn on the floor.

[denverbill]

15. Maybe they are remembering the world under Bush:

A husband and wife who wore anti-Bush T-shirts to the president’s Fourth of July appearance aren’t going down without a fight: They will be represented by lawyers from the American Civil Liberties Union as they contest the trespassing charges against them Thursday morning in Charleston Municipal Court.

Police took Nicole and Jeff Rank away in handcuffs from the event, which was billed as a presidential appearance, not a campaign rally. They were wearing T-shirts that read, "Love America, Hate Bush."

Spectators who wore pro-Bush T-shirts and Bush-Cheney campaign buttons were allowed to stay.
...

http://www.thedubyareport.com/teeshirt.html

A couple people in Colorado were also removed from a Bush speech because they had anti-war bumper stickers. At least they weren't arrested though.

[xmas74]

21. That's an interesting point to make

I might have to throw that out.

[yardwork]

14. What possible source? Any number of right wing sites.

AM radio is full of hateful shows. White supremacist sites all over the Internet filled with lies. Their church pastor. And their own fevered imaginations.

I'm sorry that you have to work with these people. Have you tried yawning?

[xmas74]

44. Too close quarters.

I've tried redirecting to the weather, fishing, sports, Big Brother, True Blood, etc-nothing works. It's like a dog with a bone.

[yardwork]

50. That's an abusive working environment.

Last edited Sun Jul 21, 2013, 07:11 PM - Edit history (1)

I'm sorry that you have to work there.

Corrected autocorrect garble.

[xmas74]

56. I'm happy to be there

I make a living wage and can support my child. The people I work with, for the most part, are good people.

The problem is that I live in a red county in a kinda reddish-purple state (yep, they voted for Romney but our governor and a senator are both Dems). People hear things that aren't true and are said in such a way that it gets their goat.

Sometimes I just feel bad about the things that they think.

[yardwork]

59. I see what you mean.

I used to live in a purple state (NC) but we went deep red. Argh.

[Journeyman]

12. Why counter this? Just tell 'em, from now on, they'd better WATCH THEIR WORDS . . .

or they're going to jail.

That should put the kibosh on some of the nonsense you have to listen to daily from these schlubs.

[TexasProgresive]

13. AHHH! a perfect answer!

Play it up- don't try to prove them wrong but just ramp up their fears until their heads explode. Think of the fun.

Face it you will never prove them wrong- and with the above strategy it possible that by becoming even more ridiculous than it already is (is that possible?) they will see the light and come out of the darkness of their ignorant stupidity.

[xmas74]

18. They seem to think that the president is coming to town

in order to make a gun grab, even though the speech is about the economy. And that if they make a comment they can be arrested.

I make the comment about making threats but they now claim that all negative comments are threats.

[Journeyman]

22. Reasonable people can't communicate with these whackadoodles, so why try? . . .

Best to just feed their fantasies and paranoias, help to push over 'em over the edge. Maybe in full-gear bat shit insanity they'll become incapable of speech, thus leaving the rest of us in relative peace.

[xmas74]

24. I wish but one of them is a supervisor

and I need the job.

They seem to enjoy bouncing crap off the resident liberal and seeing what sticks. And if I just shut up they take it as they've won their argument. They target me because they've seen me work the local Dem tables.

[Journeyman]

32. I was in a somewhat similar situation and got my answer from a Fortune Cookie. . .

I opened it and read:

"Fortune Cookie says: Put up with small annoyances to gain great results."

And I've lived happily with that advice ever since.

Best of luck.

Noli sinere nothos te opprimere.

[xmas74]

43. It's just a factory with very close quarters,

lots of overtime with few days off of rest, and really hot. Tempers are flaring, mine included, especially when it's just nonstop crap that I know is crap.

[mercuryblues]

31. Thursday should be fun for you.

Hell, tell them you have a list in your pocket, they had better be careful.

[xmas74]

42. They were already making plans to attend the McCaskill meeting on Thursday

just to talk crap but now-oh noes!-Wednesday has changed their schedule of hate. After all, they can't take off two days back-to-back for their hate fest.

I'd love to hand over a piece of paper Tuesday night and just smile at them.

[Igel]

16. Wrong country.

Not the US.

And usually in countries that have that kind of law it's not at the individual, personal level (unless it's a nice add-on charge).

Russia, Egypt, lots of countries have laws that prohibit defaming or insulting the office of the president (which almost always is taken as insulting the office holder--never the explicit intent when the law is passed, wink-wink, but always the implementation).

[xmas74]

17. It's just plain dumb

I'm just trying to figure out the source so I can dispute it.

[DirkGently]

20. Sounds like an ignorant distortion of the law against THREATENING

the President.

Threatening the President of the United States is a class D felony under United States Code Title 18, Section 871.[1] It consists of knowingly and willfully mailing or otherwise making "any threat to take the life of, to kidnap, or to inflict bodily harm upon the President of the United States". The United States Secret Service investigates suspected violations of this law and monitors those who have a history of threatening the President.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Threatening_the_President_of_the_United_States

[xmas74]

23. That's the only one I could think of

and that was my argument. Of course, they stated that I had no idea was I was talking about and that it was a different law or bill or whatever crap they were trying to spill.

When they said law I asked where I could find it. When they said bill I said something about if it had even been presented yet.

I just can't get them nailed down.

[DirkGently]

30. Many people are comfortable "knowing" things their friends tell them.

If we could do anything to improve the state of our democracy, convincing people to think critically and make qualitative distinctions about things would be the place to start.

I have heard the following insane suggestions from people I know "in real life," whom I do not otherwise consider to be "crazy" or even rightwing recently:

- Obama has been "crafty" about his birth certificate.

Nice conflation of anti-Semitic code and racially tinged anti-Obama rhetoric, from someone who would swear to have no racist or anti-Semitic, or even rightwing leanings. And even after the endless debunkings and re-debunkings. "Ehh, I just think maybe ..."

- Global warming / climate change is nonsense, because scientists lack objectivity, because something about peer pressure.

Again, from a person not otherwise known to be irrational. A professional I have worked with. Impervious to suggestions the pushback emanates from sources who might stand to lose money if emissions are further regulated.

- Trayvon Martin was carrying Skittles and Tea because there is some way to make some kind of drug out of those ingredients.

Again, a person who would strenuously object to any suggestion of racism on their part. I did get them to give up and move on by just calling "internet bullshit," but ... wow?


My point is that while we dismiss all the "crazy talk on the Internets," and dismiss those saying ridiculous things as idiots or "knuckle-draggers" or rightwingers, many people who are not all out nutjobs or paid trolls simply do not distinguish between rational thought and things their friends have said to them, or that they have read randomly somewhere.

Several of the people above were older folks. Maybe that's part of it. They somehow don't expect motivated LYING and distortion to be presented to them by people they know, or from sources that look like "news" on the Internet or television.

Ask them where they got this thinking, and they sort of shake their heads, as if you asked them where the sky came from. "I heard it, so it could be true."

You can argue, and I do, sometimes, even with "real" people I actually know. But it's a dicey proposition. It's very insulting to suggest to someone you know they have been influenced by racist tripe or paid propaganda. They'd rather be angry with you than face that possibility. It is shocking to someone who is coming from a circle of friends who pass certain "items of information" around to be told they are trading in absolute falsehoods.

If you know the person, and still want to try to straighten them out a bit, there's always polite incredulity.

"Really, that sounds almost too strange to be true. What is the source of that? You know, people make up a lot of crazy things these days."

Good luck.

[xmas74]

41. We work in a closed in area

and it's hard to get away from the person.

I'd like to defend myself, since when the comments are made they are done in such a way to put me on the defensive. And redirecting the conversation to safe topics isn't working.

It's just a bad situation all around.

[Motown_Johnny]

25. They are bearing false witness.. hit them with that

and the fact that the 9th commandment does not have some kind of escape clause for things you wish were true but are not.


Tell them to look it up and to support their statements with facts. They won't be able to.

[JaneyVee]

26. FEMA CAMPS!!!

[xmas74]

40. That might be the best answer

except I think they've already forgotten about it and I don't want to open that little can of worms.

[Jackpine Radical]

27. Well, look at what they've done.

They made a patently absurd statement (Beck, Rush, O'Reilly, Hannity, Alex Jones and the entire Tea Party would long since have been in jail if it were true), and then they put the onus on you to prove otherwise.

Since you can't prove a negative ("You didn't look hard enough/in the right place"/etc.), just demand that they show you the proof. There is none.

I've seen this tactic so many times that sometimes I just make up my own bullshit & throw it back at them. "Scott Walker gets funding from the American Nazi Party." I sometimes even give them a source--The American Standard (which is a toilet manufacturing company).

[xmas74]

39. That's what I'm dealing with

I'm the target of it because I'm the "resident lib". They've decided this not because I discuss it at work but because a coworker saw me working the Dem tent at a street fair a few years ago.

I even said that maybe they were confusing it with the military, since many are retired/former military. Of course then I was informed that I was just being stupid.

[Jackpine Radical]

53. Ask them if they think Rush & Co. are broadcasting from prison.

In one instance I kept at My Favorite Wingnut until he sent me some vaguely related story as "proof" of whatever it was that he was falsely asserting. I pointed out that whatever he sent wasn't at all on target. So he moved on to something else.

[xmas74]

58. That's funny

considering we have a bust of Rush in Jeff City.

That's what I'm trying to figure out-is this something new floating around yet again, some old story that is being recycled or something they've created out of thin air.

[Lee-Lee]

28. Bullshit- unless you work with military officers

In which case Article 88 of the UCMJ applies:


Any commissioned officer who uses contemptuous words against the President, the Vice President, Congress, the Secretary of Defense, the Secretary of a military department, the Secretary of Transportation, or the Governor or legislature of any State, Territory, Commonwealth, or possession in which he is on duty or present shall be punished as a court-martial may direct.

[xmas74]

35. I actually do work with a few officers but not on a regular basis.

A number of the people I work with are former or retired military. (I live in a military town and work at a place that has government contracts.)

Still, it doesn't apply all that much in the way they are talking about.

[kestrel91316]

29. No such "law" exists. Tell them to put up (cite source, provide link) or shut up.

[xmas74]

38. You know it doesn't and I know it doesn't

but I'm trying to figure out where they're hearing it. I heard it on Thursday from one person and I refuted it. By Friday I heard it from a number of people. Today that's all I heard about at work.

They're all worked up over the upcoming visit and I'm already sick of hearing it. If I could find someone who heard the same thing and a source then I would be better able to arm myself.

[WinkyDink]

33. OFGS. You need help to deal with complete morons? Hard to take your query at all seriously.

[xmas74]

36. Of course, when you hear it over and over again all night long

and they are spinning it round and round it makes a difference. The president will be in town this week and it's caused an uproar. I'm trying to figure out what source they could possibly be quoting so it would be easy to refute.
I just finished a ten hour day standing in an area about six feet wide with an idiot screaming about gun grabs, loss of the First Amendment, and so many other blahblahblah things that I now want to scream. What I've learned is this:saying "Shut the fuck up"doesn't work. Redirecting conversation to how nice and mild the weather is today doesn't work. Talking about the Royals, Sporting KC or even the Chiefs doesn't work. Not even talking about True Blood or Big Brother works. (And the mere thought of the women on those shows usually gets him off whatever ramble he's on.)

I just wondered if any DUers had heard this argument recently. Maybe if I knew the source I could refute it. Right now just telling them that it's not true and that it's not true for the following reasons doesn't work.

If you had to work in such close quarters with idiots you would also understand. And you don't want to get pissy with them-these are the same people who are working with you on heavy, dangerous equipment. Even if you don't like each other you still keep an eye out for the other person and keep each other safe. And it's going to get much, much worse this week.

[Fla Dem]

34. Really? What about all the mud slinging that goes on during campaigns?

Did the jerk Congressman, Joe Wilson get detained for calling Obama a "Liar" during his State of the Union" address? If what you say is true they would have dragged him off in full view of the full congress and national TV. Anybody with half a brain would know that's a bunch of BS.

[xmas74]

37. You know this and I know this

but for some reason it's in their heads that this is some new thing that was just passed. They are convinced that, when the president comes to town this week, that they will be detained for their Nobama bumper stickers, their hateful yard signs and their Letters to the Editor they've written against them.

I'm trying to figure out if this is some new thing that one of the right wing shock jocks has been discussing. This is the first time I've heard this. Usually, they are whining about gun grabs, Obamacare making their taxes and insurance go up, and about how "them gays" can get married in some places. Something has triggered this and I'm trying to figure out if this is something that's running rampant on a national level or if one of the local yokels decided this upon the news of the visit and has spun it out of control.

Oh, and when I asked where they heard it I was told that it didn't matter since they knew I was one of those "libs" and wouldn't believe the real news if I saw it happen in front of me. This makes me think it's some new thing going around.

[Fumesucker]

48. Well, it was nice knowing you

Sorry you won't be back next week, even though we disagree on some stuff you are a good coworker and help make my job easier.

I hope the next guy is as good.

[xmas74]

57. Now that's a great answer.

I should use that.

Thanks!

[edbermac]

45. Next time they say 'look it up', reply 'OK drop your pants and bend over.'

Because they're pulling this shit out of their assholes.

[mick063]

46. They are pulling your wank

It amuses them.

They don't care about facts, or truth, or sound argument.

They care about impressing each other with rhetoric from massively distributed emails that they don't check for accuracy. They don't check because it is what they want to hear. What they want to believe.

How do you think the "birther" movement got so much traction?

It is their own little bubble where the outside is all media lies. Then, when the bubble breaks, like for example, it is proven that Nate Silver is incredibly accurate with his polling, they brush it off as an anomaly and scurry back to pass the next crazy email along to their friends list.

[B Calm]

47. Enforced by the IRA, that bill applies only to registered republicans!

[jmowreader]

49. Tell them it's absolutely true

Use the burning bush joke as an example, and tell them federal regulation 393.30 covers this.

After the president leaves and they're still at large, tell them federal regulation 393,30 covers installing batteries in a truck (it does) and you just wanted to see how gullible they were.

[orpupilofnature57]

51. Tell them Shrub didn't put that in the ' Patriot act ' .

[hobbit709]

52. Just tell them this quote from a Republican president-Teddy Roosevelt.

“To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public.”

[orpupilofnature57]

54. That's why they dumped him, a great American .

[hobbit709]

55. They expected him to be a vice-president and no more.

After McKinley was killed, he became their worst nightmare.
National Parks, FDA, Trust busting, etc.