Common Murder Weapons and Their Alternate Uses

[WilliamPitt]

[hobbit709]

1. You left out candlestick, poker, and baseball bat.

[NuclearDem]

3. And lead pipe, rope, dagger, and wrench.

[Xipe Totec]

6. And pretzel

Also, car...

[whttevrr]

35. And edge sharpened...

Credit Card.

[Scootaloo]

41. Pretzels are only dangerous to dumbfuck cowboys from Connecticut

[1-Old-Man]

69. and even then they often fail to work when needed.

[Buns_of_Fire]

96. Well, sure, but when did Col. Mustard use a pretzel in the library?

I was never very good at that game.

[Zorra]

48. Here's another obvious one

[Demeter]

59. Mass destruction AND mass nausea in one

With off-label comedy effects at random intervals....

[jmowreader]

82. That's another one with no legitimate use

[Demeter]

57. And most dangerous of alll---the PEN

which was mightier than the sword in ancient times, and even more so, nowadays.

[Duckhunter935]

2. Just a little off but it is a nice try

In fact the last one makes a great hunting and target shooting rifle. So yes it does have other uses.

[srican69]

4. you need a semi automatic to hunt ducks? .. i thought you used shot guns for birds

but I have never ever held a gun in my hands - so what do I know???

[GreenStormCloud]

7. Semi-auto shotguns are used for duck hunting. N/T

[Duckhunter935]

12. Duckhunter

is a reference to my Army air defence artillery (ADA) background. I do not hunt but I do target shoot using the civilian version of the weapon I was trained on. I also target shoot with a bolt action rifle that was a standard military rifle with no modifications.

[Eleanors38]

24. In answer to your question, little....

The AR-15 is increasingly used in hunting animals like deer and most esp., feral hogs. In fact, it has become the weapon of choice for the latter due to the rifle's modularity. Modularity allows for increasing the caliber without buying another rifle. In its most basic model in .223 center-fire, target shooting is relatively inexpensive.

As with most things in life, appearances can be deceiving.

[lastlib]

36. It also made shooting children in quantity "relatively inexpensive."

I vote we protect the children and find another way to kill hogs.

[hack89]

44. Which implies a ban on all semiautomatic guns including handguns

is that really what your goal it?

[lastlib]

73. my goal is keeping children and other human beings from getting shot.

If you have a better idea, by all means, share it with us. Otherwise, get out of the way.

[hack89]

76. I do not support banning all semiautmatic guns

sorry.

There are plenty of good ideas short of bans.

[lastlib]

80. Let's hear 'em.

I'm willing to listen.

[hack89]

85. Sure

1. Universal background checks
2. Limits on magazine size (15 rounds)
3. Make all gun owners have a state Fire Arm ID card to own, purchase or sell guns/ammo.
4. Fund the background check system so that all information from all states is current.
5. A database to allow mental health professionals to report potentially violent patients (this is what NY did after Newtown)
6. Quadruple the ATF's budget and give them the resources to crack down on illegal gun sales.

Big picture, I would:

1. End the war on drugs and focus the legal system on violent offenders. Use a gun in the commission of a felony and go away for a very long time.

2. Single payer health care with full mental health coverage. Two thirds of gun deaths are suicides - lets fix the root cause.

[Duckhunter935]

87. I can live with that

will not please the other side that we are willing to compromise, they will not, ban, ban, ban will fix everything.

[lastlib]

88. Good start.

I'll add:
1. All firearm sales must be conducted through a licensed firearms dealer;
2. No sales to anyone convicted of a violent felony or who is subject to a domestic restraining order; licensed firearm dealers held to the highest standard of care to verify same.
3. five-day waiting period to complete any sale.
4. Limit three purchases per year by any person.

We can go from there.

[Duckhunter935]

89. well

1 and 2 would be covered under UBC.
3, I do not agree with, what is the point of this if I already own firearms?
4, I would raise the limit to around 10.

[hack89]

95. Lets talk about what you consider a "good end"

are gun bans part of "we can go from there'?

[Eleanors38]

53. Hey! Did you see the OP in the Gungeon about controller talking points?

I think you used one.

[lastlib]

71. What a happy coincidence!

So will you vote for protecting children and other human beings, or not?

[Eleanors38]

154. Sure.

[DonCoquixote]

128. As someone whose relatives Bowhunt

I would say that if someones need an ar-15 to shoot Deer, they are compensating for something. Deer and hogs were being killed since Caveman days, there is no reason that someone would need an assualt rifle, meant for times of WAR, to kill a damn deer!

[Eleanors38]

152. By your reasoning, hog & deer hunters don't need bows...

since cavemen didn't use that weapon for
Millenia. Later, of course, bows became the weapons of choice "during times of WAR."
And hunting as well.

I think your gripe is with the AR-15's looks, since semi-auto weapons, like the Remington 742 (walnut, scoped and with leaping deer engravings), have been used in the woods since Elvis Presley, with little objection. Sort of like the little pic at bottom left.

I can't speak to this compensation thing controllers are dearly concerned with, though there are indeed recoil/flash compensators available for rifles -- even for stereotyped "hunting" rifles.

[DonCoquixote]

168. Not quite

Yes, the Bow is more advanced than a spear, however, can you honestly say that someone can do a mass shooting with a bow? Granted, I would not like to see a skilled archer go beserk, but the chances that someone can run and move about a mall or school without getting stopped is not good.

The Ar-15 allows someone to be ALWAYS ready to shoot multiple people. They are meant to allow one person, using one weapon, to mow down a group, then mow down another. Yes, the Greek archers could mow down a lot of people, but that is because they grouped up hundred or archers and put them in formation.

Of course, the best way to show this is history. The First Nations/"indians" had some of the best archers the world has seen. They were able to reload and fire faster than the Old English Yeoman could do with his Longbow. Of course, what happened to them versus Gatling Guns?, they were mercilessly mowed down. Let's address the issue of repeating fire, which IS what this is about. We know the Civil War had great generals, and that the Confederates had the home field advantage, the same one that allowed us to kick the British out a century eariler. The Union was the first army to introduce repeating rifles. The CSA soldiers would complain that they could out-fire them, they they could take that one more shot that meant the difference between dead and alive. The CSA lost, despite being helped by England and France.

Like it or not, a gun beats any other weapon at a distance, and when you allow one person to be able to shoot shoot shoot shoot and keep shooting, that person will overwhelm anything in their way that is not armed just as well.

[Eleanors38]

169. Re-read the exchange of posts, please. The contention was made

that the AR-15 was a military weapon and shouldn't be accessible to the public for that reason. I said, following that logic, then bows shouldn't be used as they were also military weapons.

And they were.

I also said the AR-15 was not a military weapon as it did not have the characteristics of current military weapons: Full auto capability.

And they don't.

In short, the semi-auto rifle has been used in the U.S. as a military weapon only from WWII through the Korean War; after that the M-16 became the frontline infantry weapon: The AR-15 was obsolete as a military weapon from the first factory model.

And it was.

I don't agree with your take on history, except to say that the lever action was not the central military weapon of U.S. military forces during the Civil War and during native American suppression. The weapons used were most often one-at-a-time breach loaders. The Gatling gun was not often used, either. Incidentally, "Indians" had wide access to lever actions.

I don't know anyone who believes the silly notion that bows can be used in a modern mass murder. But ANY semi auto (rifle or handgun) can (along with bombs and cars). The VT shooter used a pistol equipped with "standard" mags and killed over 30 adults. Again, not a modern infantry, military-grade, or whatever weapon. The prohibition route would have to eliminate semi-auto everything, and then turn to the other varied means of mass murder. The prospect that prohibition could be achieved are nil, and the theoretical prospect that it would stop or slow mass murders is fantasy.

Thank you for the civil exchange.

[AtheistCrusader]

52. It is specifically illegal to hunt ducks with EITHER weapon.

Maybe you should leave the technical details to the experts.

Edit: For clarification, I meant either weapon in the OP's graphic. So, not clear why you would bring up ducks when the context was hunting, and a distinction is being made between a bolt action, and a semi-auto rifle.

[Hoyt]

5. Target shooting is just practice for shooting people. Hunting? OK, but how many gun nuts use their

guns solely for hunting? Not many.

As a duck hunter, do you use semi-autos to shoot them out of the air? Do you tote in public?


Target Shooting -- doesn't this just look like a blast?




This target was on display at NRA convention --

http://l3.yimg.com/bt/api/res/1.2/9A4YVaCL6kEReBYi_72DBg--/YXBwaWQ9eW5ld3M7cT04NTt3PTI0MA--/

[pipoman]

8. Target shooting is a competive (even olympic) sport

practiced by thousands of people every weekend and within 100 miles of every house in the US..but you know that already...just too busy pretending and wishing...

[bluedigger]

10. Target shooting just makes practicing interesting.

You know, until you can use the skills developed for their real purpose.

[Duckhunter935]

13. yes the real purpose

shooting paper or steel targets.

[bluedigger]

23. All those millions of folks practicing up for their chance at the Olympics.

[Spitfire of ATJ]

45. A bow and arrow is more impressive....

You don't HAVE to wear green tights either.

[Hoyt]

74. You can do that will pellet guns or even lasers. But, not as "sexy" and lethal I suppose.

[pipoman]

99. Yep, that explains the ridiculiously statistically

low number of people who use them for your pretend "real purpose"..

[Hoyt]

29. Yes thousands of yahoos are out shooting every weekend.

Here is a target resembling a human from the Center Mass Shooting Range -- sounds like a range for "Olympic atheletes," doesn't it?





Olympic Sportsmen



https://encrypted-tbn1.gstatic.com/images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQwVCI-l5FE-2iA3Eyxq1X3mFF8ecx_PoFSK81E7KFi7YTbJSXI




Target used by "Sportsmen."

?175




Well honed athletes at the range.





<iframe width="640" height="360" src="

?feature=player_detailpage" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>

[beevul]

81. Broad implications made from isolated examples.

At least you're consistent.

[Dash87]

16. Look at the dweeb holding his gun practically pointing at his friend's head.

[NutmegYankee]

72. Well, to hunt effectively, one does need to target shoot.

It actually takes a good bit of skill and practice to hit the target at a distance.

But you knew that...

[Hoyt]

75. If you use your guns solely for hunting, great. Somehow I doubt that, unless you hunt like Zman.

[NutmegYankee]

79. Why don't you explain that comment.

It appears you compared me to Zimmerman, which is a totally uncalled for smear and a violation of the Community Standards of DU.

[Hoyt]

91. Seems clear to me. You seem to be implying you only have guns to hunt.

I would hope you mean animals. But, if you carry a gun in public or have assault style weapons, what are you hunting?

Hope that helps?

[NutmegYankee]

93. I neither carry in public nor have assault style weapons.

I have pistols for target shooting, a sport I enjoy, and have rifles for deer (bolt action and black powder).

I have a CCW only because Connecticut law requires one to transport a handgun to a range, even if it's in the trunk unloaded. I do not use it to carry. You should keep that in mind when attacking CCW holders because every state is different.

[Duckhunter935]

90. I agree with Nutmeg

I think you owe him an apology. There is no call for that type of smearing here.

[Hoyt]

92. Do you use guns just for hunting food?

[Duckhunter935]

94. nope, never hunted in my life

I have two rifles and two pistols that I take to the range and shoot paper or steel targets. I find it relaxing to me. Kind of a zen thing. They are kept in my safe when not in use. Been shooting targets for 35 years and never murdered anyone or had an accident.

[Common Sense Party]

97. That is impossible.

You own death-spewers. We all know that the ONLY purpose of guns--as PROVEN by the intelligent and mature OP--is to kill.

Got it?

Kill, kill, kill.

That's what guns were designed for, and that's what they do.

Since you own death spewers, it is OBVIOUS and CERTAIN that you have killed many, probably innocent puppies and small children, and you should be ashamed of yourself and banished to a Siberian gulag or an isolated Pacific island. You do not deserve to breathe the same peaceful air that perfect citizens such as Hoyt and William Pitt inspire.













































(Was that really necessary?)

[Dash87]

14. For what kind of game?

Small bullets, but not practical for small animals either.

Wouldn't you want to use something like a .22 rifle for small animals like rabbits instead, and a larger caliber rifle for large game like bears and boars?

I'm not a hunter, so feel free to correct me.

[hack89]

26. AR-15s come in a multitude of calibers

an AR-15 in 6.5mm Grendal or 6.8mm Remington would be an excellent deer rifle.

[spin]

42. The AR-15 in .223 is used in many states for deer hunting ...

although many hunters feel that it is underpowered for that task.

Is The .223 Rem. Deadly For Deer?
With the right bullets, the .223 Rem. can be a freezer-filling cartridge for deer hunters.

POSTED BY: Richard Mann
October 27, 2011

A lot of deer hunters believe the .223 Rem. is not enough of a cartridge to be called deer ammo. There is some logic behind this. After all, deer are sometimes lost to hits from cartridges as large as the .30-06. Truth be told, those lost deer are more than likely due to bad shooting as opposed to bad or little bullets. Regardless of what cartridge you deer hunt with, your bullet needs to penetrate deep enough to pass through vital organs. It should also expand or deform in a way to maximize the destruction of those organs.

The .223 Rem. is legal for deer hunting in a lot of states, and has proven to be effective when proper bullets are used. The down side to the .223 Rem. is not velocity or bullet diameter; a .243 Win. is no faster, and its bullet is only .02 inches wider in diameter. (That's a difference of less than the thickness of your credit card.) Bullet weight is the .223's weakness. Because most bullets shed weight as they expand and penetrate, bullet expansion combined with weight loss limits penetration. For .22 caliber bullets to be effective on deer, they need to expand wide so they can maximize tissue destruction, but they also need to maintain their weight so they can drive deep....emphasis added

Bullet makers have addressed this with what some call "premium" bullets for the .223 Rem. Bullets like the Nosler Partition and Barnes TSX, which are loaded by Federal, and one of my favorites, the 62 grain Fusion load, are perfect examples. These bullets will double in diameter when they expand, but lose very little or no weight at all. The result is a bullet that will penetrate as deep as any .30-30 Win. bullet, and often damage more tissue because of the higher velocity.

Velocity is important because a higher velocity means more displaced and damaged tissue. A bullet sort of makes a splash inside the liquid-filled tissues of a deer—like when you throw a rock into a pond. Throw the rock slowly and you get a small splash; throw it faster and the splash is bigger. Muzzle velocities from a .223 Rem. are fast—1,000 fps faster than a .30-30 Win. However, because of the low ballistic coefficient (BC) of .224 caliber bullets, they slow down quickly. (Note: The .223 Rem. actually has a .224-inch diameter.)

However I will agree that an AR-10 in .308 would make an excellent weapon to hunt deer or even moose.

[AtheistCrusader]

58. The minimum lawful caliber in my state is .240

But that is easily solved, with a pin and a spare Upper in the correct caliber.

[Duckhunter935]

65. one of the great things

about the AR platform being modular

[AtheistCrusader]

56. The AR-15 is a modular weapons platform.

With a simple removal of a pin, you can change it from a .223 (Suitable for feral hogs, coyote) to a .308 (Suitable for deer, elk), .50 Beowulf (suitable for I know not what), etc.

This is why it is the most popular center-fire rifle in the country. It works really well, it's VERY accurate, and highly adaptable. I can replace 3 whole rifles in my safe, with a single AR and 2 additional uppers.

[arely staircase]

67. yeah that high capacity magazine is so useful when hunting

people

[Duckhunter935]

70. I use the standard

20 round capacity and never fill that past 15. It is what the rifle came with and is designed for. Fire too many too fast and it will ruin the barrel. I do not like the 30 round variety and past that is just too heavy and causes jams like in Colorado. My opinion is only idiots have magazines over 30 rounds. I have no big issue with limiting magazine size but it will make very little difference. Hundreds of millions of them already out there now, are you going to go around and confiscate them? It is a box with a spring, very easy to make. Pistols should be limited to what fits in the grip.

[Duckhunter935]

77. and how to make a standard copacity magazine to high capacity with no modification

use a standard capacity 50 Baowulf and load it with 5.56. It functions the same and does not need modification at all.

[Hoyt]

103. Do you shoot targets resembling people; or practice "sniping;" or go to gun stores with names like

"Center Mass," and other references to shooting people; and other war zone type activities?

[Duckhunter935]

110. Nope

I have shot full size silhouette targets but prefer the center repair targets as they are smaller to carry downrange. Do not do the zombie stuff. Bought bolt action rifle at big 5 and the AR at Walmart. Both pistols online but picked up at FFL as required by law. Sorry to disappoint you.

[hack89]

86. Many states restrict magazine size for hunting. nt

[Hoyt]

104. Yeah, but as we've seen, there aren't a lot of folks into guns who actually hunt regularly.

[hack89]

106. So?

I have four AR-15s sitting in my safe - one for each family member. We don't hunt - competitive target shooting is thing.

The vast majority of rifle owners are just like me - they simply enjoy to shoot. The fact that there are so few people killed by rifles tells you all you need to know about how dangerous we are.

[arely staircase]

123. you can't shoot with a five round magazine? nt

[hack89]

130. Some competitions require more than 5 rounds per event.

I will settle for 15 rounds.

[arely staircase]

132. ok then, special permit with an up your ass background check for a 15 round clip

for "competitors."

[hack89]

134. No - I am happy with the status quo.

unless you are willing to offer up something in exchange. What are you willing to offer gun owners in exchange for their support?

[arely staircase]

138. i know you are nt

[arely staircase]

122. which makes their general availability all the more puzzling. nt

[hack89]

129. Because they are not a problem?

I have no problem with limiting magazine size to 15 rounds but I am under no illusion that such a law would have any significant impact on gun violence.

[arely staircase]

131. makes massacres a little harder

and I would limit to 5 rounds.

[hack89]

133. There are tens of millions of them in circulation

All unregistered and unaccounted for. Secondly, no proposed magazine limit is retroactive - large capacity mags will still be perfectly legal.

[oneshooter]

111. Yes it is. And back when I hunted people for a living

I used 20 round mags in 7.62 caliber. Worked well from a full auto FN.

[arely staircase]

124. thank you nt

[Agschmid]

155. Calling bullshit on your post...

You do not NEED a semi automatic to hunt deer.

[spanone]

163. nope, it's a killing machine.

[marble falls]

9. Ironically enough, hammers killed more folks than assault rifles last year accourdingto the FBI.

[RC]

19. Really? Not according to this:

Not a hammer in sight. Plenty of guns though.

[aikoaiko]

21. I'll dig for it, but I think the category is blunt objects for homicides (not just deaths)

Here it is:
AR-15 and other so called assault weapon rifles fall under all rifles.
Blunt objects were used in more deaths than all rifles.

Same for hands and feet. People use hands and feet way more than assault weapon rifles like ARs.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Nevernose]

25. I'm not sure i understand your point?

[hack89]

27. The fixation on semiautomatic rifles is somewhat misplaced

considering how seldom they are used to murder people.

Handguns have and always will be the big killers.

[Eleanors38]

28. He was correcting #19, who seemed to have some point.

[A Simple Game]

31. But if you break down the hammer category into

crooked claw
straight claw
ball peen
rubber

And don't forget to subtract the clubs and etc.

It seems to me that blunt objects would be equivalent to explosive projectile, who would win then?

If you are going to pick nits, pick them all.

[aikoaiko]

34. The anti-gunnies are shying away from the goal of banning all guns these days.

They think they'll make better progress focusing on evil "assault weapons" like AR-15s which is the point of the OP. Notice how they are fine with the bolt action rifle and didn't even mention handguns.

Nevertheless the OP distinguishes between instruments of "explosive projectiles" and so did I.

[Duckhunter935]

39. I have a military spec rifle

[aikoaiko]

40. I'm good with that. Which one?

[dickthegrouch]

43. I'll never shy away from banning all guns

In fact, I'll advance a theory: The human race will not advance substantially further until all violence is eradicated.

I believe we're under quarantine by other civilizations until we grow up and continuously and exclusively cooperate universally.

[Eleanors38]

55. "No one wants to take your guns away."

[dickthegrouch]

60. No one is watching your email, phone calls or driving routes either

[Eleanors38]

64. I can't account for the boring habits of others...

...but we pro-2A folks are constantly chastised, when we oppose bans, with the quoted refrain I used. So I never miss an opportunity -- they are numerous -- to quote it right back; you know, to defuse all that paranoia.

[rrneck]

63. I've posted this a few times so apologies if you've already seen it...

[wercal]

107. Assault weapons for the time being...

...other weapons later.

Step 1 - Hysterically decry 'assault weapons' (with graphics of course) and get them banned
Step 2 - Have a sudden epiphany, and discover that pistols kill 1,800% more people than 'assault weapons'
Step 3 - Get hysterical again, and point out how pistols should be banned, just like 'assault weapons'

[A Simple Game]

125. The subject of the sub thread we are in is hammers vs. assault rifles.

The OP did break down rifles into two categories, one useful the other non-useful. The graphic in the post by RC you responded to did not break guns into different categories. Your post did break down guns into different categories but lumped hammers into a catch all blunt object category.

The original (sub thread) post stated that: "Ironically enough, hammers killed more folks than assault rifles last year accourdingto the FBI", there is no way to verify this from the table in your post.

I know of no one that wants to ban all guns, although I suppose there are some. If you refer back to the OP I think the idea is to get rid of unnecessary guns, especially ones capable of mass murder. I'm surprised you didn't realize that.

I can assume by the number in the total firearm category that your table refers to murders and not total deaths. RC's graphic refers to homicides and suicides, I don't believe it includes total deaths either.

Although I find assault style weapons for the most part useless, if they were stripped of all the extraneous stuff and had a short clip you could justify using one in high brush areas. So they are not entirely useless but I certainly wouldn't pay the prices they command these days. I could never afford to target shoot with one, nor do I think it would be much fun. They must lose their accuracy at what 100ft., and after 5 or 6 shots. Fools and their money. I can't imagine a serious hunter, at least in my area, wanting to use one for hunting. Leave them to the special forces for urban fighting.

[aikoaiko]

141. I was rushing and didn't explain well

I was trying to clarify that marbles falls should have said that blunt objects are used in homicides more 'assault weapon' rifles. Using an example of a category in place of a category is a type of metaphor.

The data in the FBI table support the assertion as I amended it.

RC's table had no chance of addressing the topic of the sub thread for a couple of reasons.

Usefulness of a firearm is certainly context dependent. What do you like to shoot that doesn't lose accuracy after 5 to 6 shots.

[A Simple Game]

142. I assume the object of shooting an assault rifle is the rapid fire.

I don't target shoot anymore but when I did it was with a single shoot rifle. I suppose you could shoot one fast enough to lose accuracy but that is not the main purpose of a single shot rifle.

No, your example clumps many objects, all blunt objects, against one object gun, the assault rifle, not fair. If you want to be fair pit all blunt against all guns.

[aikoaiko]

143. It's a fair example because ...

...it highlights that rifles are not the menace some make them out to be.

A rifle like an AR give a target shooter the option to shoot fast in a practical shooting contest r as slow as you with your single shot. In this way such a rifle is more useful than your old single shot.

Your mileage may vary.

[A Simple Game]

144. Well I see we won't agree on your example but that is no big deal.

An assault weapon is more useful than my old single shot, maybe, but no carbine is going to be as accurate as my old rifle. Don't embarrass yourself trying to convince me it could be. I suppose a lot of snipers use AR15's in their line of work.

[aikoaiko]

146. Sure, a good quality single shot action will beat an average carbine.

But they make high quality upper halves for AR15s that are plenty accurate to 300 yards and further with skill.

Ar15 are expensive these days in part because they are good. I don't know how long it's been since you shot one, but you might be impressed to try a modern Ar15.


Snipers aren't using AR15s bt many of the new records are being made semi-auto firearms like the m82a1.

[marble falls]

136. Accourding to this:

http://washington.cbslocal.com/2013/01/03/fbi-hammers-clubs-kill-more-people-than-rifles-shotguns/

Here's the FBI chart:

https://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11


FBI: Hammers, Clubs Kill More People Than Rifles, Shotguns
January 3, 2013 2:44 PM


WASHINGTON (CBS DC) – Annual FBI crime statistics show that more people are killed with clubs and hammers each year than by rifles or shotguns.

In 2011, there were 323 murders committed with a rifle but 496 murders committed with hammers and clubs. There were 356 murders in which a shotgun was the deadly weapon of choice.

<snip>

The FBI report concedes that some of the “murder by rifle” statistics should be increased slightly because some murders don’t take non-categorized types of guns into account. However, the data still shows that the amount of people killed by hammers, clubs and other blunt instruments still continues to rise each year.

Even as gun purchases rise, the share of U.S. households with a gun has been falling for decades, from 54 percent in 1977 to 32 percent in 2010, according to the University of Chicago’s General Social Survey.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

137. I'm having a bit of trouble finding...

...the assault rifle category. In reality, a bit under 4% of murders with a firearm are committed with a rifle of any type.

[marble falls]

158. If rifles (catagory) is less, it stands to reason assault weapons(sub-catagory) is also less.....

not trying to start a fight or imply we don't need gun control and regulation. We need it more and more with each passing year. I do want to take all the emotional and unfactual "statistics" out of the discussion.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

160. re: "I do want to take all the emotional and unfactual "statistics" out of the discussion."

This is a most welcome and logical endeavor.

Bravo.

[arely staircase]

78. link? nt

[jmowreader]

84. Hammers fall into the "blunt weapons" category

It also contains 2x4s, baseball bats, large rocks and crowbars.

Not sure what category baseball bats with nails in them fall into.

[Turbineguy]

11. Pistols are handy for hanging pictures

Just make sure a round is chambered and the safety is off. We would not want to miss an opportunity to shoot somebody in the apartment below!

[Nye Bevan]

15. Is a chainsaw really a "common murder weapon"?

I mean, in real life as opposed to movies?

[Lizzie Poppet]

17. Cute, but factually it's utter nonsense.

Rifles of the sort depicted in the final drawing are used for purposes other than murder by an utterly overwhelming ratio. There are somewhere around 5 million military-styled semiautomatic rifles in private hands in the US. Number of homicides per year committed with rifles of any kind? 363 (in 2011).

These rifles are used to recreational shooting (and yes, hunting) astronomically more often than for homicide.

[The Straight Story]

18. Shhhh facts and stats upset them

[spin]

37. Facts are trumped by emotion in the gun control crowd. Sadly that makes finding solutions ...

to gun violence in our nation more difficult. The gun advocates use fear of the government confiscating all firearms to bolster their position.

If both sides were will to sit down and discuss the gun violence issue without using fear and emotion, we could significantly improve our gun control laws.

[The Straight Story]

38. Key word in it all - violence

And we are not looking for solutions regarding that (poverty, alcohol use, etc).

[spin]

47. If we would limited our War on Drugs when Jimmy Carter suggested doing so...

we would have far less gun violence in our nation today. Drug gangs fighting over turf in Chicago cause most the the gun tragedies in the Windy City.

President Jimmy Carter Wanted Drugs Legalized Back in 1977
MAY 29, 2012 BY RHONDA WINTER 1 COMMENT

Last year the New York Times published a compelling editorial by former President Jimmy Carter demanding that we call off the global drug war. Carter highlighted a report from the Global Commission on Drug Policy describing the total failure of the drug war, as well as their proposal recommending the legalization of most drugs. Indeed the “war on drugs” has failed miserably. As with prohibition, it has once again been proven that “morality” can not be legislated.

Drug legalization not only makes economic sense, it is also much more beneficial for our society as a whole. Carter explains the extent of economic and societal destruction that the global “war on drugs” has wrought:

***snip***

The article also mentions an enlightened drug abuse message from President Carter to Congress in 1977, which recommended that our country decriminalize the possession of less than an ounce of marijuana, and implement a complete program of treatment for addicts. He also cautioned against filling our prisons with young people who were no threat to our society, and summarized by saying:

“Penalties against possession of a drug should not be more damaging to an individual than the use of the drug itself.”
http://ecolocalizer.com/2012/05/29/president-jimmy-carter-wanted-drugs-legalized-back-in-1977/

[dickthegrouch]

61. My point precisely /nt

[bettyellen]

164. testosterone......

[Bonx]

68. Facts are trumped by emotion in a lot of crowds.

They all pain me.

[wercal]

109. As a gun owner, I see a solution

Gun Registration

And I mean serious registration. You sell a gun only through a dealer, and the new owner is logged. A gun gets stolen...you are legally obligated to contact police immediately. You lose a gun...your name is still associated with it, and you could be held financially liable for what might happen with it.

The vast majority of gun deaths are suicides (which can't be avoided with any gun law) or perpetrated using either stolen guns or 'clean' guns that can't be traced to an individual. If it becomes harder to have an untraceable gun, there will be less gun crime.

However, I would NEVER advocate for my own solution. Not in the current environment. Not when people are rallying to ban guns outright. If there is no possibility of negotiation...why on earth would I give an inch?

I'm sure the same is true for a lot of other people's ideas.

[spin]

112. The chances of national gun registration passing in the current political environment ...

is slightly better than zero. If it passed, a high percentage of gun owners would refuse to register their firearms.

[One_Life_To_Give]

20. You know what is missing

[aikoaiko]

22. I suppose target shooting and home defense was too difficult to ponder.

[hack89]

30. Yet AR-15s are the standard for competitive target shooting

go figure.

[leveymg]

32. Correction - Alternative use: War

In other words, mass murder.

[Eleanors38]

62. Actually, the AR-15 is obsolete for war since it only fires semi-auto.

Semi-auto was the prevalent tech for U.S. forces in only 2 wars: WW II and Korea. Been full-auto ever since JFK approved the M-16. Like the torpedo and dive-bombers, short-lived devices for war use.

BTW, the mass murder at Virginia Tech used a pistol with standard mags and killed 32 healthy adults.

[leveymg]

66. With a little modification to the firing mechanism and selector, it's the same as a M-16.

There are six parts that need to swapped. Don't be patronizing.

[Eleanors38]

153. Then why aren't these swapped parts models filling the streets?

Who has them? How many used in crime? What are the homicide rates with your parts-swapped gun?

You are trying to ban a weapon type that's been around for generations, over a hundred years in fact, without a rush for parts and bobby pins in all that time.

No, you want to ban based on looks and conjecture. I hope that is not "patronizing."

[leveymg]

156. Because it's still a felony.

The type (assault rifle) has been around since the mid-1940s. Not quite a century, but the rush to own these things is due to a mounting sense that America is an increasingly dangerous place, which to a large degree is due to the prevalence of semi-automatic handguns and rifles. Chicken or egg?

[Eleanors38]

157. most of the punks shooting up Chicago are already felons.

Try the market place for better explanations: there isn't much demand for full-auto, bobby-pinned or otherwise. Semi-auto is the market, now, and has been for years. There is little market in this country for Military type weapons, I.e. Full-Auto.

We've come full circle.

[leveymg]

159. For a drive-by, a Glock or two does perfectly well.

Converted full autos are the sort of weapon of choice for neo-Nazis, terrorists, and other American death squad wannabes. See, http://www.lautenberg.senate.gov/assets/TerrorReport.102010.pdf‎

[Eleanors38]

167. Tell me, how many people have been murdered by full autos in the last 20 yrs?

I'll wait.

[oneshooter]

166. I have a damaged lower I will allow you to "easely convert" The mag well has been removed

and both upper pin locations have been removed. It is a 2011 lower and I use it as a training aid.

Willing to prove yourself?

[wercal]

108. You may not know this....

The M-16 was originally capable of fully automatic fire.

Then the M-16A2 came out, with several improvements...and no fully automatic fire. It was changed to 3 round burst.

The M16A3 came out at the same time as the A2, for special units, with fully automatic fire.

The M4 that is now issued also uses burst, instead of fully automatic. And, similar to the M16A3, the M4A1 has fully automatic fire, and is used by special units.

The use of burst fire is for more than just ammo conservation. In the 1980's, I was part of a test. We were asked to unload a magazine at a target, using an M16 in fully automatic mode....and then with an M16A2 in burst mode. Then we looked at our accuracy. The results were stunning - the burst mode greatly increased accuracy.

[spin]

114. When I trained in the Air Force with an M16 during the Vietnam War ...

we were taught to use two or three round bursts in full auto mode by not holding the trigger down. It's not easy but it can be done. The last weapon that I fired in the full auto mode was an Uzi and it was easy to fire short bursts.

[spin]

33. The AR-15 is used for hunting. Many states allow deer hunting with the AR-15 but most limit ...

the amount of rounds in the magazine of the rifle to usually five rounds. The AR-15 is also widely used in states like Florida and Texas to hunt feral hog which are a significant problem as these non-native animals do significant damage to the environment. Florida does not limit magazine size while hunting hog.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

46. Is the goal another AWB? In 1994, Democrats lost control of Congress for the first time since 1954.

There was a 54 seat swing vote.

It does not appear that the "assault" weapon ban helped the Democratic Party. There were multiple factors, with the AWB being one of them.

In Bill Clinton's autobiography, he points to the AWB as a major factor in the loss.

How helpful is it going to be to keep stirring this up?

The Republicans who control North Carolina, for example, have recently been in the news. How much help will a push for another "assault" weapon ban give to Democratic candidates in North Carolina?

Is there no goal to adopt another AWB? Then why post a photo of an AR-15 and deny that its ownership can deter some home invasions? Why deny that it can be used for hunting? Why say that the AR-15 has no purpose other than to murder?

[The Straight Story]

49. Yeah, but people felt better right? And that is the quick solution so many seem to want (nt)

[AnotherMcIntosh]

54. It's odd that those who would readily ban firearms because of emotional words (e.g. "assault"), seem

to have a total lack of interest in meaningful action that would reduce unnecessary gun violence.

1) Where is the call by them, for example, for economic reform?

2) Or a call by them for increasing the prison time for criminals caught using firearms in their criminal activities? Why not separate gun-using criminals from guns in a real way by keeping them locked up longer?

3) Where is the call by them for universal mental-health care? The passage of the ACA, with penalties for those who don't purchase health insurance, is not a good alternative for universal mental-health care.

Instead, it is the same let's-demonize-the-ownership-of-firearms thinking that contributed to the 1994 Congressional losses.

[spin]

118. Most shooters at that time didn't really care much about "assault weapons." ....

Revolvers were still very popular and hunters had not tried to use AR-15s or AK-47 clones as they were considered underpowered, inaccurate and unreliable.

After the assault weapons ban passed more shooters bought one out of curiosity to see what all the fuss was about. They reported back to other shooter that they were fun to shoot, accurate and far more reliable than their reputation. After a few years assault weapons became very popular.

The first assault weapons ban backfired.

[baldguy]

50. What about a pointed stick?

[AtheistCrusader]

51. Bottom left and bottom right are both hunting implements.

[Omnith]

83. Probably the most naive post I've ever read.

[beevul]

98. "Common"?

AR style rifles are "common" murder weapons...that's the implication you're making here.


Reality says otherwise:


There were a grand total of 323 murders with rifles in 2011. That's ALL rifles. The AR type rifle is a subset of ALL rifles, and most assuredly accounts for only a fraction of that 323. Handguns were involved in over 6 thousand on the other hand.


Lets go over your entire list:

Knives: 1,694

poison: 5

hammers/blunt objects: 496

explosives: 12

log splitting mauls: unknown:

chainsaws: unknown

bolt action rifles: (all rifles total 323) a portion of 323

Wood chippers: unknown

AR style rifles: (all rifles 323) a portion of 323



Source:

http://www.fbi.gov/about-us/cjis/ucr/crime-in-the-u.s/2011/crime-in-the-u.s.-2011/tables/expanded-homicide-data-table-11



In a word: Fail.

[hack89]

100. Facts are irrelevent when it is done out of concern for the children.

[beevul]

102. Seriously. Shouldn't the title be "uncommon murder weapons..."?

If accuracy means a damned, I mean.

[discntnt_irny_srcsm]

135. Actually....

...I've not heard of a wood chipper being a murder weapon since Saddam was in action.

[Deep13]

101. People do hunt with ARs, but most ARs are suitable...

...for only a few game animals, nothing larger than a coyote. There are specialized and very expensive ARs in odd calibers that are especially for hunting, but even then, a manually operated rifle is usually just as good. Also they can be lighter and are easier to clean than a semi-auto.

[Hoyt]

105. Yeah, but they don't give you that war zone lethality that gun folks seem to like.

[Deep13]

139. Well, hunting rifles are often a lot more powerful than ARs, but...

...but they cannot do one after another in rapid succession. The shooter has to stop and work a bolt or a lever before he can shoot again. And most of the hunting guns do not have either high capacity or detachable magazines. Reloading the 5 or so round magazine is a bit of a project.

[Hoyt]

140. Seriously, I don't see ARs a big concern, it's gun guys that covet them that are a concern.

Last edited Sat Aug 3, 2013, 07:55 AM - Edit history (2)

Handguns are a bigger immediate problem. So-called assault weapons are a problem if we have a severe national disaster.

These gun folks are a bit too callous, and possess a few other character flaws, to trust in a disaster with assault style lethal weapons.

New law - If yahoo wants AR15, they are too irrational to own one. Yes Catch-22, but a rational 22.

[Deep13]

150. It's really obsessive.

Guns give the owner a false feeling of power and self-autonomy, which in fact does not exist. I am also disturbed by the seige mentality and their acceptance--eager anticipation even--of the inevitable and imminent collapse of civilization. I was reading a gun forum once and someone asked what everyone would do when America collapsed (he was not clear on what that meant). The answers were all me and mine against the world. Just to be a bit over the top, I said I had no plans because if America falls, I would have died trying to save it.

Some of these guys have collections of AR-15s. This is my close range AR, this is my sniper AR etc. What an investment of time and money! Don't these folks have families to support? What are the kids doing without so their paranoid father can be ready for a "them" that does not exist.

I used to be opposed to gun control based on the NRA-propagated lie that it wasn't very effective and that their was some Constitutional right for personal ownership, even if it was not absolute. Newtown made me realize that I had been a selfish fool. I still enjoy target shooting, but if there is something I can no longer get because of restrictions, *shrug* I'll live and others will too. Of course I join 90% of Americans an a majority of NRA members who want universal background checks. And year, we really need to reign in those handguns, because, as you say, they are a far bigger daily menace than military-pattern rifles.

[Hoyt]

151. There was a thread in gungeon when a hurricane was approaching NE, "what is your

go to gun" if people are fleeing the city. Nothing like being prepared to shoot disaster victims.

[Rex]

113. Wrong. That chart is a boldface lie.

An M-4 or an M-16 is used to KILL people in war. It is a tool and only has ONE use.

THAT CHART IS WRONG.

[Duckhunter935]

115. My civilian M-4 has never

killed people, just paper and steel targets. Calm down, you will have health issues.

[Rex]

116. It is a tool meant to kill people.

The fact that you play games, is not my concern. Ever serve in the military?

[Duckhunter935]

119. yes, 20 plus years

You are correct in one respect, the chart is a BOLD FACED LIE, AR style platforms are not common murder weapons. Where is the pistol that is much more commonly used? AR platforms are actually very uncommon murder weapons.

[Rex]

120. Yes a 1911 would work far better.

I am calm and I see you get my meaning. I get your point too. I know you can go hunting with a SKS for that matter, but certain firearms really are meant as tools for just one thing. To kill another person.

Personally, you know as well as I do...dead is dead from a bullet. Sometimes I think people that have never experienced being in the military, get confused as to an assault rifle and a salad shooter...then you get the silly chart in the OP.

Kinda long point, sorry.

[ileus]

149. or in my case

It's meant to protect life.

[Rex]

165. True enough as well.

I guess it depends on which way the barrel is pointing.

[lpbk2713]

117. Professor Plum in the Conservatory with a Candlestick.

[Rex]

121. Depends on what you are hunting for.

Meant to say that one too earlier.

[Skittles]

126. that last one is a viagra substitute

[belcffub]

127. I used that last one

to take my deer two year ago... works like a charm...

[cherokeeprogressive]

145. As deeply as I respect Mr. William Pitt; I'm afraid I have to admit I don't get the point he's

trying to make with this post.

I have a really good video of an angry wife not only killing her cheating her husband with her Mercedes Benz, but backing up and driving over his dead body again and again.

Strange, I didn't see Mercedes Benz as a weapon in this post.

Is Mr. Pitt attempting to imply there are ONLY 9 recorded ways to kill a person?

[ileus]

147. My ARs ar used for

Hunting
Target shooting
general plinking

And last but not least protecting the lives of my family.

[flvegan]

148. Oh, dear. The irony. Sorry, I have to.

"Murder weapons" and "alternate uses" including "hunting"

That's a massive fucking fail in my book. But then, some animals more equal than others and blah blah blah.

[In_The_Wind]

161. Kicked & Recommended

[X_Digger]

162. Umm..