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Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsNew Yorkers use bogus 'therapy dog' tags to take Fido everywhere
Phony service dog tags have become common among city pooch owners, who use them for everything from taking Fido bar-hopping to pick up chicks to getting discounts on the Hamptons Jitney. Dog owners can easily snap up bogus tags, vests, patches and certificates on the Internet, circumventing the city Health Department and undermining federal regulations designed to aid the disabled.
I was sick of tying up my dog outside, said Brett David, 33, a restaurateur whose tiny pooch, Napoleon, wore an unofficial therapy dog patch during a visit to Whole Foods on Houston Street (pictured). Sometimes, theyll give me a hassle and say bring the papers next time, but for five bucks, you order [a patch] off eBay, and it works 90 percent of the time, he told The Post.
The Health Department issues legitimate service-dog tags but doesnt regulate them. To obtain a legitimate tag, an applicant only needs to present a letter from a dog trainer saying the dog can perform certain useful tasks. Proof of a disability isnt required.
......
Vlasovskaya isnt worried about getting called out, noting its a hassle to verify the certificate. Youd have to go through all of these links or get someone on the line, she said. With all of that effort, they will probably just let you in.
http://www.nypost.com/p/news/local/stupid_dog_trick_1nMC3NBq6sPfyzlpXdiDkN
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I think more places should allow well-behaved pets.
I know it brightens my day to see a dog in the Home Depot (a local contractor always brings his retriever-mix into the store with him - I see them a couple of times a year.)
snooper2
(30,151 posts)and you turn a corner and your three year old steps in it-
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Duh.
People often walk with bags and scoops. No difference.
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)They should stay home if they don't want to be around dogs.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Far more people are allergic to soaps and perfumes and smog and plants than animals and they seem to somehow manage to go out everyday (me).
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Again, fuck you people that are allergic to dogs - Fawke Em puts up with perfumes people wear so you can suck it up.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)It's a matter of PUBLIC HEALTH.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)What dontheybdo, how are they a matter of public health? Trying to understand the why and how, thanks
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)veterinary public health and zoonotic diseases.
Here's a place to start: http://www.cdc.gov/Features/HealthyPets/
Good basic video: http://www.medscape.com/viewarticle/745993
Salmonella is probably the biggest concern with pets in food service establishments, but GI parasites can also be a problem. Salmonella can be fatal and can be acquired from pets easily, contrary to what some people would like you to believe.
Zoonotic diseases are a topic that I could cover all day every day for a month and barely make a dent in the subject.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)restaurant? If a dog does not defecate with me coming in contact with feces, how will I get a parasite from it laying on the floor at the next table?
If I do not pet a dog, how will it infect me?
Personally I'm more concerned about the sneezing person at the next table than the dog.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)cooties on their hand and then starts handling the produce or picking up packages of meat, and before you know it, some poor unsuspecting soul has picked up Salmonella or whatever.
These laws exist to minimize risk and to protect the weakest among us. YOU might never get sick, but what about the woman on chemo for cancer, or the transplant patient on immunosuppressive drugs, or the infant with an immature immune system who touches everything and then crams both hands in his mouth?
These are very real risks, and the pet owners have no valid need to bring pets into food service establishments.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Hell, I pet my dogs before I leave the house. Technically, I can pet my dogs, go down the street, literally a block, and handle food.
That's why people should cook their food correctly and wash produce.
FWIW, I actually wasn't speaking of bringing dogs into restaurants, but on their beer garden porches or to the liquor store or to hardware store... no problem.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)are unfair, why don't you launch a campaign to change them??
(Good luck with that - the public health folks will make mincemeat out of you, lol)
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I said, "FWIW, I actually wasn't speaking of bringing dogs into restaurants, but on their beer garden porches or to the liquor store or to hardware store... no problem."
Which, means, that I don't necessarily believe that all dogs belong in all restaurants - just to some of their outdoor seating... and to other places that have nothing to do with food.
Good luck with your reading comprehension.
BTW, I usually support you as a veterinarian. I adopt dogs and have a minimum exception in my city because I can prove I'm not collecting and my pets have their shots and are all spayed and neutered, but you were being a bit obtuse in this thread.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)establishments are good laws with a sound scientific basis.
I get tired of pet fanatics with no comprehension of basic principles of public health and zoonoses complaining about how unfair it is that they can't take Fluffy and Bowser into restaurants and grocery stores. I am not, BTW, saying you are one of those.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)dangerous than people about spreading disease.
Unless they bite, then it's a different ballgame.
As a rule, I find the company of my pets far better than the company of most of my neighbors. LOL.
BTW, my golden has a heart murmur, per the vet (not my friend, but a co-worker of hers), yet she has NO other symptoms. She pants when she's running or hot, but is fine. Never has a bluish tongue or gums. Never seems tired. I think I should make her an appointment with the vet who is my friend there. Ugh. I'm serious. This dog shows NO signs of a heart problem, what-s
o-ever.
customerserviceguy
(25,183 posts)to fight emotion, and while I salute you, you're finding it doesn't always go a long ways here.
By the way, within an hour of NYC, there are few "laws", only things that people take as mere suggestions. Any doubt, drive on roads around here.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)I've never gotten to pick up packages of meat or handle produce in a restaurant.
If you are talking about a grocery store, how do you know if I have just pet my dog, then come in and handle produce, picking up packages? Working with and having friends who are autoimmuned, I know they have to be careful which included proper handwashing no matter whether or not they've come into contact with a pet.
Yes, pets can and do carry things that can be bad, but so do people.
And please, hold the "my dear" condescension as it doesn't help anything.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)food service establishments don't work. You took SOMETHING all wrong and are now making me out to be the bad guy. Good lord.
If you believe these laws are wrong and bad, by all means work to repeal them. But you'll have to do battle against public health professionals, and like I told the other poster, they WILL make mincemeat out of you.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)I am a health care professional and would like to know in what restaurant do customers handle packages of meat or produce?
susanna
(5,231 posts)uppityperson
(115,681 posts)Major Nikon
(36,827 posts)It isn't that big of a deal.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,375 posts)... heathens.
NightWatcher
(39,343 posts)I'm cool with them anywhere except where food is involved. My dog's well behaved but I don't about anyone else's dog.
cherokeeprogressive
(24,853 posts)parrot on his shoulder. No one was really paying any attention to him until he turned his back, and everyone noticed the trail of bird shit all the way down the back of his shirt.
Someone complained rather loudly, and the manager escorted him out post haste.
Shrike47
(6,913 posts)Some people just think they're entitled.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)I was on a six-hour flight last week with a litle yelping whining dog in my aisle in a bag. I was wondering how the little crazymaker got on the plane, perhaps it was a faux service dog. Sure didn't seem to have any discipline training.
Nevernose
(13,081 posts)Some for free, some with a surcharge. No special "service dog" tag required.
MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)They should mandate soundproof containers. 6 hours of yipping, yelping and whining, it was awful.
bluedigger
(17,088 posts)It's not like putting a goldfish in a ziplock.
Skittles
(153,240 posts)I got some last time I moved and my cat slept through the horror
tabbycat31
(6,336 posts)In 1993, I traveled by plane with a kitten (who lived to be almost 18) and because of the departure city and time of year (Dallas, August), it was not safe for him to go in cargo.
He was in a carrier made to fit under an airline seat. His ticket cost $50. He also had to have a certificate of health signed by a vet before he was allowed to fly.
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)I've never taken one, but I'd never put one in baggage either. Dogs die in baggage every year.
KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Under the ADA, if someone has a dog, you are allowed to ask two questions:
1) "Is that a service dog?"
2) "What does s/he do for you?"
That's it. Not "Do you have a disability?" or "Where are the dog's papers?"
And there will always be a few entitled jerks who claim it's a service animal when it isn't just like there are jerks who "borrow" the disabled parking placard so that they can park in the blue zone.
There's no easy way to remedy either situation without placing excess burden on those using this provisions legitimately.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)go.
This is an old issue in NYC and years ago the City started issuing tags for actual service dogs because so many people were abusing the laws. The issue is especially acute in housing because landlords can demand that dogs not on the lease be banned.
Only a person with an ADA condition is allowed to bring a service dog into food service establishments and other places where dogs would be denied entry.
I love my dogs and I take them to some places which permit dogs but I am always mindful that there are people who may be afraid of dogs, allergic to dogs, or religiously forbidden to touch dogs. I love my dogs but I don't expect everyone else to.
They love going to the Post Office.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)LordGlenconner
(1,348 posts)I heart them! What are their names, if you don't mind me asking?
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)I love sporting dogs.
When can I pet those babies?
dipsydoodle
(42,239 posts)Lee-Lee
(6,324 posts)For people with real service dogs. I see it all the time, people want to take their dogs around so they exploit the laws put in place to aid people with legitimate needs.
There needs to be one single consistent standard ad certifying authority for what is a service dog. No certification, no legal requirement to accommodate it.
KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)and only ADA people can qualify a dog for "Service Dog" status. Even a person walking a service dog for an ADA person cannot legally take that dog into places where dogs are banned. That is Federal law.
The quoted article is from the NY Post and I see the story also ran on Fox affliates (same Murdoch empire). It is sensationalistic and not written to inform readers about the law or distinctions between "therapy dog" and "service dog."
In NYC there is a government issued tag for qualified service dogs to help business owners sort out the real ones from the fakes. I expect more cities will start to issue certifications due to the fakes.
This is a tough environment for dogs, especially service dogs, and the fakers (and Fox News /NY Post) aren't helping the matter.
Whiskeytide
(4,463 posts)It would seem the people making and selling the fake tags could be easily found (this idiot found them, after all) and prosecuted. Wouldn't that solve the problem?
DinahMoeHum
(21,821 posts)Except they don't see it as a disability
For them it's an advantage.
cbayer
(146,218 posts)They told stories of dogs in restaurants taking food off tables, dogs in grocery stores tearing into boxes of food and just dogs, dogs everywhere with very flimsy criteria for "service".
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Either by the dog owner or the restaurant management.
I'd never let my dog(s) run around, grabbing food off my own table, much less anyone else's!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)the only dogs inside any of them have been well behaved service dogs. #2, No restaurant owner in this city would allow any dog to run rampant in their restaurant. Not one.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)cbayer
(146,218 posts)Perhaps they frequent different neighborhoods than you?
Do you travel around town with an animal?
Liberal In Texas
(13,597 posts)It's the number one reason why the "free market" will never work.
msongs
(67,465 posts)KurtNYC
(14,549 posts)Many people who are physically disabled have been given some of their freedom and independence back by well trained service dogs. Paraplegic and quadraplegic people have a right to the fullest life they are capable of and a true service (or "assistance" dog can be key to that.
At ADI they train dogs to perform over 90 verbal commands and 120 hand signals. For those without the use of their own legs and/ or arms or eyes, service dogs are certainly not a scam
Here is a sample of what they do for those who benefit from them:
Please don't let those who abuse the law form the basis of your opinion on this matter.
msanthrope
(37,549 posts)dog is no scam. You should meet some disabled people and their service dogs, and learn something.
AZ Progressive
(3,411 posts)Last edited Mon Aug 5, 2013, 02:23 PM - Edit history (2)
And people wonder why we need so many regulations, blame the small but significant population of opportunistic unethical americans, not the government.
JustABozoOnThisBus
(23,375 posts)... with the faux handicap tag so I can get a better parking spot than you?
What, me Jackass?
newfie11
(8,159 posts)A man came walking by with is dog. I ask my German friends about it. They were stunned that anyone could not bring their dog with them in a business in America. What is different in Europe as opposed to Ameria? I know some dog owners in America are not responsible and that gives all if us a bad name.
I have on occasion taken my dogs into cafes while at dog shows.
These were on the show grounds.
Would I take them into a regular restaurant in America lol. Ever seen a Newfoundland drool? No I would not.
bluedigger
(17,088 posts)The difference over there is that people are held accountable for their pet's behavior. Very accountable. Also, McDonald's serves beer.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)Yes you are right in that people do take care of their animals and are responsible owners.
Loved Germany and would love to live there but my tongue will never be able to speak German.
bluedigger
(17,088 posts)We've been occupying them for over 60 years now.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)The VA itself considers service dogs beneficial.
oh, and F*ck the NY Post. They are shit stirrers of the penultimate kind.
Kids have been known to act horribly in stores and restaurants. More so than most dogs I have seen, especially service dogs. I had the chance to watch a child throw up at a restaurant where I was eating. The mother was mortified. She told the server -- he must have a stomach virus, as she apologized.
Service dogs are fine with me.
REP
(21,691 posts)Dogs are nice enough creatures, but unfortunately most of them have the most repulsive smell. I don't wont to be around it while trying to eat (and yes, that goes for loaded diapers as well).
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)My point is that I find it strange that people are against service dogs in public. They are trained to behave -- for the most part.
Children are raised to behave. They are raised to be good adults.
Service Dogs serve a purpose for people who need them.
pnwmom
(109,020 posts)Raine1967
(11,589 posts)and the NY Post.
And -- to be really honest --- the OP is using the NY Post as a reason to dismiss therapy dogs. I'd really like to sea a disclaimer of an explanation about this.
Murdoch owns the New York Post. MURDOCH! Are we to assume that the NY post is innocent with this piece?
frylock
(34,825 posts)I can imagine the dog isn't at all well behaved.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)Seriously, as I said above, the NYP is nothing more that a shit stirring publication. You know what I am talking about, frylock -- you have been here at DU long enough to know this. The article is bullshit. NYP is bullshit and happens to be a RW rag.
The NYP shouldn't be in a place to decide what is or is not a service dog.
frylock
(34,825 posts)the lazy asshole in the article states they're tired of tying their dog up outside of the store. if you can verify that the person cited didn't say that, or does not exist and is a fake persona made up by the NYP i'll retract my statement, but the person cited comes across as some entitled asshole.
Raine1967
(11,589 posts)It was the NYP that deemed the dog: unofficial therapy dog --- The article is pure un-adulterated bullshit. It has no sources. Are you really asking me to prove a negative? Are you really defending the NYP?
I'm not going to defend a straw man. I know what I am saying. Read the article again
It's a POS NYP article with NOTHING to back it up.
My estimation is completely different than you have assumed.
SoCalDem
(103,856 posts)like the ones who use Grandma's car (with the handicap sticker/plate/placard) so THEY can park right in front..
panader0
(25,816 posts)so they can park in front. I have seen so many of those who have no visible handicap.
uppityperson
(115,681 posts)newfie11
(8,159 posts)CountAllVotes
(20,878 posts)Oh baby you look so good.
Yeah right.
Some people out there have not a clue as to what it is to have a bonafide disability that is not visible *yet*. Hopefully, it will never be visible is what I say.
Just because you aren't in a wheelchair drooling all over yourself doesn't mean that you don't have the need for a service dog.
This I know already. Been trying to obtain one for almost 10 years now with no luck it sight.
So much for having an "ADA disability". It sucks and I have yet to find one advantage out there to having a bonafide ADA disability.
egduj
(807 posts)Egalitarian Thug
(12,448 posts)but we are forced to put up with children practically everywhere.
I can't wait for the therapy dog wars...
ann---
(1,933 posts)almost everywhere in France - even restaurants. I don't know why it cannot be allowed here.
ForgoTheConsequence
(4,869 posts)I'm allergic to long haired dogs, so are others. That's why its not allowed. Want to eat with your dog? Fine. Set it a place at your table, in your house.
newfie11
(8,159 posts)my friend has no lower body control fue to trama and has a Rottie service dog. If he drops something she picks it up as he cannot.
She is at the groomer several times a month and I have never smelled anything.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)a service dog.
Same for my kids.
We see a service dog in the store and we all want to go pet. But, I always ask, if I ask. Normally, I just tell the kids to let the dog do its job and they argue that dogs LIKE to be petted, please ask. LOL. Depends on the situation and the dog. If the dog is wagging it's tail and reacting to my household of animal lovers, I'll ask. If the dog is busy, I let the kids know it's working and tell them to let it be as they walk by, eyes on a missed petting opportunity.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Don't see you banning them from the public.
Want to use YOUR soap or perfume, eat your pollen or your bacon? Fine. Set a place at your table, in your house.
Do you see how stupid you sound to those of us with "acceptable" allergies?
Capt. Obvious
(9,002 posts)Taitertots
(7,745 posts)Oh, the French also ban burkas, do you think we should do that too?
Of course not, because "the French do it" is a foolish reason to support a policy.
Tien1985
(920 posts)(Aquaintace only) who does this. I think abusing the law only hurts people who really need it.
In the other hand, I would be up for changing the law. Animals in public don't bother me (yes I'm allergic, I can deal). When I was visiting my brother in Holland it was one of the things that I found harmless if not beneficial.
Fawke Em
(11,366 posts)Sorry to shout, but I have allergies to other things that are public, but I can deal! I drink a lot of water and use allergy medication when necessary. I DEAL.
I think, for MOST people, having a pet around makes the place merrier.
My grandmother and mother worked at nursing homes for years. I worked, briefly, in marketing for an assisted living home. Pet were allowed and were FAR more of a pick-me-up than the crap-load of drugs administered. I used to bring my cocker spaniel in sometimes and the old ladies (and, lets face it, most old-folks' homes are mostly old ladies) loved holding him and petting his curls. He loved it, too.
Shouldn't we be far more worried that the NSA is flagging us a dog terrorists, now?
otohara
(24,135 posts)abuse the system all the time.
I can totally see Paris Hilton doing this and feeling no remorse.
KinMd
(966 posts)HolyMoley
(240 posts)My heart goes out to him and his furry little fashion accessory.
I never realized until now how the cruel hard ships and cold-hearted life in the Big Apple could be.
darkangel218
(13,985 posts)Politicalboi
(15,189 posts)People can trip over dogs, dogs get in fights, and if some people let their dogs roam like their children then that becomes a problem. Keep your dogs at home. They should have a better way to enforce therapy dog licenses. And those that pretend should get fined as those who park in a handicapped spot. It's making a mockery out of an important service for some.
LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)They also shed, poop, bark and lick others.
There are parks and sidewalks for dogs. And of course your private residence. Don't disturb others who may have allergies or just don't want to be licked.
nolabels
(13,133 posts)Some people even pick up or give their bacteria strains to each other by being licked by them (mostly it won't hurt you).
Licks Do Not Raise Risk of Getting Germs From Dogs, Study Finds
http://newswatch.nationalgeographic.com/2009/01/27/dog_germs/
MineralMan
(146,339 posts)dogs. My wife and I occasionally take Dude to one of those. He sits patiently next to one of the chairs we are sitting in, and gladly accepts pats on the head by children and adults who want to bestow them.
I wouldn't take the dog inside of any business establishment, though, unless there was a sign saying "Pets Welcome." And we never take the dog into any of those chain pet stores any longer. We've had too many instances of some strange dog there trying to pick a fight.
On the other hand, if I do see a dog accompanying someone in a business, I simply assume that it is a therapy dog of some kind and just let it be. I can't see the point of ever questioning anyone about something like that.
redgreenandblue
(2,088 posts)Problem solved.
Response to redgreenandblue (Reply #96)
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