General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsSnowden's email service, Lavabit, shuts down rather than comply with U.S. gov. orders.
I have been forced to make a difficult decision: to become complicit in crimes against the American people or walk away from nearly ten years of hard work by shutting down Lavabit. After significant soul searching, I have decided to suspend operations. I wish that I could legally share with you the events that led to my decision. I cannot. I feel you deserve to know whats going on--the first amendment is supposed to guarantee me the freedom to speak out in situations like this. Unfortunately, Congress has passed laws that say otherwise. As things currently stand, I cannot share my experiences over the last six weeks, even though I have twice made the appropriate requests.
Whats going to happen now? Weve already started preparing the paperwork needed to continue to fight for the Constitution in the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals. A favorable decision would allow me resurrect Lavabit as an American company.
This experience has taught me one very important lesson: without congressional action or a strong judicial precedent, I would _strongly_ recommend against anyone trusting their private data to a company with physical ties to the United States.
Sincerely,
Ladar Levison
Owner and Operator, Lavabit LLC
http://boingboing.net/2013/08/08/lavabit-email-service-snowden.html
snappyturtle
(14,656 posts)Hydra
(14,459 posts)I can't wait to see what the apologists have to say about this. The 1st, 4th, 5th and 10th amendments are getting murdered.
hobbit709
(41,694 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We all know it by heart...you Obama hater, you...
It is getting kafkaesque to be honest
bemildred
(90,061 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)We even have a dept of pre-crime.
(Showing our reading habits)
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Orwell died a bit too soon to get all the Technicolor(R) glory of it the way we do it now.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)nadinbrzezinski
(154,021 posts)It is...odd...in some ways.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)I was thinking about "Diamond Age" in relation to Snowden, and who can forget Hiro Protagonist?
starroute
(12,977 posts)It's the creeping fascism part.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)Or "Team America, World Police":
beevul
(12,194 posts)Nightwatch, ministry of truth...
"Are you with us or against us?"
Volaris
(10,270 posts)smacks of Shadowrun (for those who played it back in the day)
Eric Prince thinks he's running a Lone Star outfit. The lunatic.
Dragonfli
(10,622 posts)amendment!
Best president ever!
I Love It when I wake up in the morning and I do not have to bunk a half dozen soldiers in my living room thanks to inspirational leadership.
No president could do better with what he has, even the professional leftist FDR could not protect the 18th amendment.
How could Obama be expected to save more than one at a time, or indeed, even save more than one or two overall? He is not a King but he will stand firm on the third and we can add that to the list of accomplishments.
I am glad we elected a constitutional scholar, such a man understands interpretations of certain words to make legal and constitutional all we now are forced to do because, 911.
Everything changed since then - with liberty there can be no safety, and with safety there can be no liberty.
He understands this and he always protects us.
BlueCheese
(2,522 posts)My guess is he received one of those demands that he turn over a user's email while also prohibiting him from talking about it.
Is it constitutional to prevent a citizen from repeating unsolicited information the government tells him or her?
Hydra
(14,459 posts)But that doesn't seem to matter to the current Admin. They're doing it anyway.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)for him to talk about it.
backscatter712
(26,355 posts)Nothing says we live in a free country like a visit from government spooks, with orders to snoop through your stuff without an actual warrant from an actual court, plus an order not to talk about it, on pain of prison.
midnight
(26,624 posts)KamaAina
(78,249 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)"It's taking a very bold stand, one that I'm sure will have financial ramifications," Opsahl said.
You can donate here:
https://www.paypal.com/us/cgi-bin/webscr?cmd=_flow&SESSION=ALPXnOUdpYOeWl96OtcBhIyiv1oizgYT4o98PfFphtWcybfQY3auWuqUJo8&dispatch=5885d80a13c0db1f8e263663d3faee8d92b37e35c82a7c965120dd5a9b6ad0e3
millennialmax
(331 posts)MsPithy
(809 posts)Be honest. Even John Gault's 90 page radio address?
Because, I see no similarity at all.
Angus86
(27 posts)As a librarian, there has been much talk in my profession in recent years about the seedier parts of the USA PATRIOT Act. What Lavabit LLC received is likely a National Security Letter, or NSL. An NSL is an executive subpoena that DOES NOT require prior judicial approval, not even in a secret court. One of the unique features of an NSL is the inherent "gag order" which prevents the recipient from revealing to anyone (except their lawyer or job supervisor) that they've received the request. Even worse, the "gag order" automatically applies to anyone told of the NSL by the recipient.
Before the USA PATRIOT Act, NSLs could only be used if the target of the investigation was suspected of being a "foreign spy" (which they claim Snowden is), however the Patriot Act removed that requirement.
There was a Library in Connecticut that received an NSL and successfully challenged the constitutionality of the "gag order," however it is still standard practice to include it in new NSLs.
Sadly, Mr. Levison will probably be charged with obstructing an investigation as the result of his actions.
riderinthestorm
(23,272 posts)ConcernedCanuk
(13,509 posts).
.
.
just sayin'
CC
Angus86
(27 posts)I like to read discussions, but rarely comment. I choose to speak up only when I feel I have some insight into the discussion.
That being said, it's great to be here!
ConcernedCanuk
(13,509 posts).
.
.
There is a wealth of information here, other groups and so on
Not only that, I save a lot of net usage charges by just checking the news items here on DU as most news sites gobble up my bandwidth with adds and pop ups for a few paragraphs of text.
My comment was meant to mention that just because a member has a low post count,
doesn't mean that they are a "newbie".
Welcome anyhoo - it's safer on the wall
than in many of the forums.
I suspect you know that.
CC
Angus86
(27 posts)PoliticAverse
(26,366 posts)An attitude like that could destroy the Internet as we know it...
Vinnie From Indy
(10,820 posts)"job supervisors" and release information.
Mojorabbit
(16,020 posts)blackspade
(10,056 posts)The rest of us? not so much....
usGovOwesUs3Trillion
(2,022 posts)All they need to do is just say no.
Let them try to lock everybody up!
bvar22
(39,909 posts)I am Manning
I am Snowden.
I am Trayvon.
I am OWS.
starroute
(12,977 posts)It starts yesterday when all people knew was that they couldn't access their mailboxes or get any explanation of why the system was down. Then, late last night, somebody who'd just joined the board suggested "has anybody considered that if edward snowden did use lavabit then the Gouvernment is maybe interested in his mails which he wrote and sended to Glenn Greenwald. Maybe they seized the server and waved with a national security letter. just a thought !"
And then a few hours later, the announcement came that the service was being shut down. Up to that point, not even an employee who was posting to apologize to everyone had any clue as to what it was about.
Strange stuff.
http://www.emaildiscussions.com/showthread.php?t=66968
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)MannyGoldstein
(34,589 posts)just like strengthening Social Security... right Jamie and Lloyd?"
RC
(25,592 posts)What's next?
Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)They didn't even inform their web mail users in advance so they could transfer their contacts.
cantbeserious
(13,039 posts)eom
DeSwiss
(27,137 posts)Catherina
(35,568 posts)"We knew USG would come after us. Thats why Silent Circle CEO Michael Janke tells TechCrunch his company shut down its Silent Mail encrypted email service. It hadnt been told to provide data to the government, but after Lavabit shut down today rather than be complicit with NSA spying, Silent Circle told customers it has killed off Silent Mail rather than risk their privacy.
The Silent Circle blog posts explains We see the writing the wall, and we have decided that it is best for us to shut down Silent Mail now. Its especially damning considering Silent Circles co-founder and president is Phil Zimmermann, the inventor of widely-used email encryption program Pretty Good Privacy.
Silent Circle reportedly had revenue increase 400% month-over-month in July after corporate enterprise customers switched to its services in hopes of avoiding surveillance. The company giddily told Forbes it planned to nearly double staff and significantly increase revenue this year in part thanks to the NSAs practices coming to light. In light of those comments, todays news about shutting down Silent Mail seems a bit sobering.
Silent CircleSilent Circles other secure services including Silent Phone and Silent Text will continue to operate as they do all the encryption on the client side within users devices. But it explained that Email that uses standard Internet protocols cannot have the same security guarantees that real-time communications has. With too many opportunities for information and metadata leaks in the SMTP, POP3, and IMAP email protocols, the company believes there was no way to live up to its promise of total privacy.
In a statement to TechCrunch about whether the shut down was only because Silent Circle felt email was insecure, CEO Michael Janke tells us
It goes deeper than that. There are some very high profile people on Silent Circle- and I mean very targeted people- as well as heads of state, human rights groups, reporters, special operations units from many countries. We wanted to be proactive because we knew USG would come after us due to the sheer amount of people who use us- let alone the highly targeted high profile people. They are completely secure and clean on Silent Phone, Silent Text and Silent Eyes, but email is broken because govt can force us to turn over what we have. So to protect everyone and to drive them to use the other three peer to peer products- we made the decision to do this before men on [SIC] suits show up. Now- they are completely shut down- nothing they can get from us or try and force from us- we literally have nothing anywhere.
...
http://techcrunch.com/2013/08/08/silent-circle-preemptively-shuts-down-encrypted-email-service-to-prevent-nsa-spying/
Their message to customers:
We designed our phone, video, and text services (Silent Phone and Silent Text) to be completely end-to-end secure with all cryptography done on the clients and our exposure to your data to be nil. The reasons are obvious the less of your information we have, the better it is for you and for us.
Silent Mail has thus always been something of a quandary for us. Email that uses standard Internet protocols cannot have the same security guarantees that real-time communications has. There are far too many leaks of information and metadata intrinsically in the email protocols themselves. Email as we know it with SMTP, POP3, and IMAP cannot be secure.
And yet, many people wanted it. Silent Mail has similar security guarantees to other secure email systems, and with full disclosure, we thought it would be valuable.
However, we have reconsidered this position. Weve been thinking about this for some time, whether it was a good idea at all. Today, another secure email provider, Lavabit, shut down their system lest they be complicit in crimes against the American people. We see the writing the wall, and we have decided that it is best for us to shut down Silent Mail now. We have not received subpoenas, warrants, security letters, or anything else by any government, and this is why we are acting now.
Weve been debating this for weeks, and had changes planned starting next Monday. Wed considered phasing the service out, continuing service for existing customers, and a variety of other things up until today. It is always better to be safe than sorry, and with your safety we decided that the worst decision is always no decision.
...
http://silentcircle.wordpress.com/2013/08/09/to-our-customers/
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)DontTreadOnMe
(2,442 posts)we have a large group of people living in total paranoia.
You can get the list of people right here on DU, just make a list of their screen names.
No need for the NSA, it's all right here in plain daylight.
It's just like the far right was scared of Obama coming to get their guns... the paranoid ultra, "way deep with back against the wall" left has gone off the deep end with tornadoes filled with sharks.
gulliver
(13,180 posts)How do we know this? Why do we know this if it's such a great service? Maybe this guy just wants some publicity. I don't see why encrypting email is considered difficult.
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)And as for Snowden...
The note, which could not be verified, requested the attendance of a slew of well-known rights workers and lawyers for a brief statement and discussion regarding the next steps forward in my situation, according to a copy of the invitation posted Lokshina.
It was sent from the email address edsnowden@lavabit.com, according to Lokshinas post, and signed Edward Joseph Snowden.
http://www.globalpost.com/dispatch/news/regions/europe/russia/130712/edward-snowden-meeting-moscow-airport
arely staircase
(12,482 posts)devils chaplain
(602 posts)AppleBottom
(201 posts)Shankapotomus
(4,840 posts)knowing what he knew about internet surveillance and the NSA, why would Snowden communicate via email over the internet? The whole thing sounds ludicrous.
I also am suspicious of the abrupt shutdown of Lavabit where users are unable to access their accounts and can't contact anyone.
How do we know Lavabit itself wasn't part of the NSA program?
Amonester
(11,541 posts)Everything is broken up and dances.
Disinformation, manipulation for attention greed or necessity.
Spin, spin, spin, send the cash here...
Oath to the Constitution for show...
Progressive dog
(6,900 posts)With good reason?
WillyT
(72,631 posts)Douglas Carpenter
(20,226 posts)Enthusiast
(50,983 posts)It just isn't right!
Luminous Animal
(27,310 posts)But now we're talking about private, legitimate companies shutting down their services, not because of government regulation or anything open to debate or public discourse, but because of government intrusion and secret strong arming backed by the word of secret courts.
SoapBox
(18,791 posts)Oh! No they didn't.
These paranoid companies were hiding some kind of funky shit!?! Terrorist mails? Traitor mails? Or just men cheating on their wives.
If one shuts down their company, just to "take a stand", they weren't much of a company.
Next!
jmowreader
(50,557 posts)...it seems to me that an email service like Lavabit or Silent Circle, one which offers claims of near-absolute security, would be a perfect conduit to facilitate terrorism, distribution of child pornography, and large-scale illicit-drug transactions. (Go to the Lavabit wikipedia page and you will learn that Joey006@lavabit.com was nailed in June for alleged possession of child porn. Lavabit cooperated in that investigation, but you know what they say about smoke...)
Snowden? The horse is not only out of the barn on that one but he's half a mile down the road.
blkmusclmachine
(16,149 posts).