Sens. Widen & Udall on Wash Post NSA Report:"This confirmation is just the tip of a larger iceberg."

[Hissyspit]

http://www.wyden.senate.gov/news/press-releases/wyden-udall-statement-on-reports-of-compliance-violations-made-under-nsa-collection-programs

Wyden, Udall Statement on Reports of Compliance Violations Made Under NSA Collection Programs

Friday, August 16, 2013

Washington, D.C. – U.S. Senators Ron Wyden (D-Ore.) and Mark Udall (D-Colo.) issued the following statement regarding reports that the NSA has violated rules intended to protect Americans' privacy thousands of times each year. Wyden and Udall are both members of the Senate Intelligence Committee.

“The executive branch has now confirmed that the 'rules, regulations and court-imposed standards for protecting the privacy of Americans' have been violated thousands of times each year. We have previously said that the violations of these laws and rules were more serious than had been acknowledged, and we believe Americans should know that this confirmation is just the tip of a larger iceberg.

While Senate rules prohibit us from confirming or denying some of the details in today's press reports, the American people have a right to know more details about of these violations. We hope that the executive branch will take steps to publicly provide more information as part of the honest, public debate of surveillance authorities that the Administration has said it is interested in having.

In particular, we believe the public deserves to know more about the violations of the secret court orders that have authorized the bulk collection of Americans' phone and email records under the USA PATRIOT Act. The public should also be told more about why the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court has said that the executive branch's implementation of section 702 of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act has circumvented the spirit of the law, particularly since the executive branch has declined to address this concern.

We appreciate the candor of the Chief Judge of the Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Court regarding the Court's inability to independently verify statements made by the executive branch. We believe that the Court is not currently structured in a way that makes it an effective check on the power of the executive branch. This highlights the need for a robust and well-staffed public advocate who could participate in significant cases before the Court and evaluate and counter government assertions. Without such an advocate on the court, and without greater transparency regarding the Court's rulings, the checks and balances on executive branch authority enshrined in the Constitution cannot be adequately upheld.”

[kentuck]

1. "more serious" ??

How much more serious? Obviously these two Senators know much more than anyone posting on this thread, I would assume.

[HooptieWagon]

4. "tip of the iceberg" serious.

What we know is bad enough. It seems what we don't know is far worse. Time for an open investigation...including indictments for anyone found to have violated constitutional rights or to have lied about the program.

[Blue_Tires]

22. It's funny to see how many *shocked* congresscritters are playing the plausible deniability card

[Jackpine Radical]

2. Wyden, Udall--obviously Public Enemies.

<--Rare use of the Sarcasm thingie by the current poster, who has no immediate desire to trigger the effects of Poe's Law.

[rhett o rick]

12. This time I caught the sarcasm but thanks for the "thingie".

[Jackpine Radical]

21. It's hard telling around here sometimes.

[KoKo]

3. So the Latest Blockbuster Revelation at WaPO is "just the tip of the Iceberg?

And, that includes FISA Court Judge Reggie Walton's incredible revelation?

I shudder to think what the heck else is coming. Many of us have suspected Blackmail..Bribery...Wall Street Trading... Could that be next?

[ProSense]

15. Maybe Wyden and Udall should tell Americans what they know.

I mean, why their statement so much different from Feinstein's?

Feinstein Statement on NSA Compliance

Washington—Senator Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.), chairman of the Senate Intelligence Committee, released the following statement on reports that the NSA has not complied with privacy rules or overstepped its legal authority. While today’s Washington Post stated that Feinstein did not receive a copy of the 2012 audit cited by the paper until The Post asked about it, Feinstein’s full statement provided on Thursday to the paper made clear the committee receives the FISA compliance information in a more official format rather than as an internal NSA statistical report. A statement from Feinstein follows:

“By law, the Intelligence Committee receives roughly a dozen reports every year on FISA activities, which include information about compliance issues. Some of these reports provide independent analysis by the offices of the inspectors general in the intelligence community. The committee does not receive the same number of official reports on other NSA surveillance activities directed abroad that are conducted pursuant to legal authorities outside of FISA (specifically Executive Order 12333), but I intend to add to the committee’s focus on those activities.

“The committee has been notified—and has held briefings and hearings—in cases where there have been significant FISA compliance issues. In all such cases, the incidents have been addressed by ending or adapting the activity.

“The large majority of NSA’s so-called ‘compliance incidents’ are called ‘roaming’ incidents, in which the NSA is collecting the phone or electronic communications of a non-American outside the United States, and that person then enters the United States. The NSA generally won’t know that the person has traveled to the United States. As the laws and rules governing NSA surveillance require different procedures once someone enters the U.S.—generally to require a specific FISA court order—NSA will cite this as a ‘compliance incident,’ and either cease the surveillance or obtain the required FISA court order. The majority of these ‘compliance incidents’ are, therefore, unintentional and do not involve any inappropriate surveillance of Americans.

“As I have said previously, the committee has never identified an instance in which the NSA has intentionally abused its authority to conduct surveillance for inappropriate purposes.

“I believe, however, that the committee can and should do more to independently verify that NSA’s operations are appropriate, and its reports of compliance incidents are accurate. This should include more routine trips to NSA by committee staff and committee hearings at which all compliance issues can be fully discussed.”

http://www.feinstein.senate.gov/public/index.cfm/press-releases?ID=9e2e8297-2968-40c9-8001-321e7a9a5079

[Aerows]

24. Diane Feinstein and her husband

have made their fortune off of war and defense contracts. I'm not even going to sit here and pretend they are anything but profiteers. Nor should anyone else. Of course she sees no evil, hears no evil and speaks no evil.

You never do when you profit as handsomely in such a loathsome manner as she and her husband have. Hell, even hardcore Obama and NSA defenders don't like her. If you suddenly do, you either don't know a thing about her, or you don't give a shit about the morality of war for profit whatsoever.

[stuffmatters]

50. Di-Fi and her Husband also making millions selling off our post offices

Many of which are WPA treasures, our national heritage as valuable and irreplaceable as the FSA negatives (Dorothea Lange, Walker Evans etc) in the Library of Congress.

I was also thinking how right wing convenient this dismantling of the post office network is...beyond the obvious boon to privatization and ALEC beneficiaries UPS and FedEx and whatever corporate power ultimately feasts upon the gazillions pension/health fund that Issah strangled the USPS to pay ahead 75 years...which is what's also forcing the fire sale of these buildings, to pay this unjust financial demand.

Shock Doctrine to get rid of one of the remaining Unions, fair employer of women and minorities at a middle class wage, largest employer of vets. Additionally just the existence of this national network of US Post Offices...a national network of accessible buildings for the community... are exactly what ALEC doesn't want for supporting community movements.

So Di-Fi and her husband are raking in millions selling off not just our heritage but also our community centers. Why should a senator and her husband openly profiteer from this pillage?

[NuclearDem]

40. Yeah, I'll take Udall and Wyden's words over the MIC's favorite Democrat

I'm sure that statement's worth a brand new car.

[Mojorabbit]

49. Feinstein? Really? nt

[midnight]

53. Ms. Edmonds talked of many of these actions happening and she was gagged.... So you are right to

indicated that many of us suspected blackmail....

[MotherPetrie]

5. K&R

[sabrina 1]

6. 'Tip of the Iceberg'. And we thought it was bad enough as far as what we now know. Is there no one

in charge of the people's business in this country anymore? Didn't they all swear to defend and protect the Constitution of the US??

[kentuck]

7. The President needs to get on top of this story very quickly or else...

...it will roll over him like a tank at Tiananmen Square.

If it appears that he is lying or covering up, the right-wingers in Congress will not hesitate to start impeachment proceedings.

He needs to get on top of this story ASAP.

[leftstreet]

10. He already said there's no spying on Americans

Obama To Leno: 'There Is No Spying On Americans'

by Greg Henderson
August 07, 201312:44 AM


President Obama defended the US government's surveillance program, telling NBC's Jay Leno on Tuesday that: "There is no spying on Americans."

"We don't have a domestic spying program," Obama said on The Tonight Show with Jay Leno. "What we do have is some mechanisms that can track a phone number or an email address that is connected to a terrorist attack. ... That information is useful."

http://www.npr.org/blogs/thetwo-way/2013/08/06/209692380/obama-to-leno-there-is-no-spying-on-americans

How does he get on top of this?

[LondonReign2]

26. The right wingers are all on board with the NSA

Though I wouldn't put it past them try to impeach AND still support NSA spying.

[dhill926]

29. yep........

[Octafish]

8. Don't worry. DiFi's got this.

Sen. Dianne Feinstein lauds “heavy patdowns”

http://tsanewsblog.com/3005/news/sen-dianne-feinstein-lauds-heavy-patdowns/

[Catherina]

9. That's one war profiteer who needed to go a long time ago n/t

[rhett o rick]

11. And just think that only a few weeks ago, those that dared to think this might be the case, were

called CT. Just goes to show, some CT are true.

[neverforget]

13. I've clicked through many threads waiting to read what the NSA defenders

have to say about this. I haven't come across any....yet.

Sure is quiet.......

[Maedhros]

14. They are waiting for instuctions from their handlers. [n/t]

[neverforget]

18. They're strangely silent.....

[Maedhros]

20. They just posted a story about how Assange admires Ron Paul

They're all over there right now bathing in the irrelevancy.

[DirkGently]

30. "bathing in the irrelevancy." ++

[Maedhros]

33. It's actually a useful thread.

It has all the people I need to put on "Ignore" in it. Quite the time saver.

[neverforget]

54. The talking points have arrived and they're just more attacks

on Greenwald's and Snowden's character.

[ohheckyeah]

31. I wasn't sure if they weren't commenting

Last edited Fri Aug 16, 2013, 08:46 PM - Edit history (1)

or if I have them all on ignore.

[neverforget]

36. Lol. I've thought about ignore but I can't do it.

I want to hear the other side but sometimes, it's pretty tough.

[ohheckyeah]

37. I've never used the ignore function before

but after reading the same arguments over and over and over again, I was going to snap. I didn't want to have to replace my monitor.

[LondonReign2]

46. I finally had to put Mr. There's No Proof on ignore

The whole point of this forum is debate...but a person simply repeating the same thing again and again in the face of overwhelming facts isn't debating, they are simply trying to disrupt.

[xchrom]

16. du rec.

[99th_Monkey]

17. Wyden needs to call for a Special Prosecutor & televised Congressional Hearings. eom

[KoKo]

19. If we had a MSM/Cable...this could get Big Momentum.

Sadly...this is the "FRIDAY DUMP" for those folks.

It's up to us to do it somehow.

[Blue_Tires]

23. What in the hell would that 3-ring circus accomplish other than pumping CNN/Fox ratings?

[99th_Monkey]

27. Can we say "Wyden Committee" yet?

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Church_Committee

This is in the Atlantic for Pete sake.

Lawbreaking at the NSA: Bring On a New Church Committee
The Washington Post has revealed an audit documenting thousands of abuses per year. An exhaustive investigation is long overdue -- and Ron Wyden should lead it.
http://www.theatlantic.com/politics/archive/2013/08/lawbreaking-at-the-nsa-bring-on-a-new-church-committee/278750/

[Blue_Tires]

38. I keep saying the problem is people actually believing

The nsa can be reorganized, reformed, or checked on its powers...Any proposal that isn't "complete elimination" is a waste of time....

Of course the system creates way too many jobs and makes too many powerful people wealthy, so for all the congressional grandstanding, deep down they know this truth as well...Naturally, this is the same congress that is trying nonstop to eliminate obamacare, social security, the postal service, etc. etc.

[99th_Monkey]

39. You make some good points, I'll give you that.

Call me naive, but I do on balance feel the Church Committee did clean up
the cesspool a bit, to make it somewhat accountable, for awhile ... until it
wasn't anymore. <-- which may be your point.

[nadinbrzezinski]

25. Yup, the level of corruption should astound people

[Autumn Colors]

28. I bet they've all had their private conversations played back to them.....

From way back ... how many years has this been going on? Five years? Seven years? And all have been told that if they don't play ball the way they want ("they" meaning NSA, secret government, whoever is REALLY controlling things) .... that these taped conversations will "somehow" get leaked to the press, the web, etc.

The "they" I refer to in the subject line is every congress critter, every supreme court justice, all cabinet members, and the President himself. There already was a leaker from a few years ago who just came forward again to validate what Snowden has been saying and this person said specifically that Barack Obama was an NSA snooping "target" back when he was a senator.

[Tierra_y_Libertad]

32. We need more whistle blowers to open the windows and turn on the lights.

[Logical]

34. Wow! n-t

[burnodo]

35. Reminiscent of what Greenwald reported

nt

[Autumn]

41. Recommended for Oregon's Senator Wyden and my Senator Udall

I hope they both stay on this like a tick on a dog.

[1awake]

42. K&R n/t

[Hissyspit]

43. Kick nt

[Enthusiast]

44. I don't think these guys are some wild eyed crazies.

If they say it, I believe it has some validity.

[TransitJohn]

45. They're obviously racist Rand Paul supporters who like Matt Damon movies.

[Warren Stupidity]

47. Where is my blue linked explanation?

I'm confused. These threads always have a comforting explanatory rebuttal.

[Douglas Carpenter]

48. fuck Rand Paul and all his Paulbot allies in the Senate

[stuffmatters]

51. I'm really beginning to think Udall-Wyden 2016!!!

With Elizabeth Warren Sec of the Treasury.

It's time to address 21century dynamics and problems with 21st century candidates, not the same old Wall Street Fraud friendly, Defense and Security hawk, "public-private" bait and switch, pot and immigrant into prison obsessors from last century.

These two Senators are really stepping up here; it seems an enormous political and personal risk to go against Obama and the omnipotent MIC Security State.

[cantbeserious]

52. Kick And Recommend

eom