General Discussion
Related: Editorials & Other Articles, Issue Forums, Alliance Forums, Region ForumsDoes anyone else have a gut feeling.............
that Hannah Anderson (girl that was abducted, whose abductor killed her brother & Mom) is somehow involved in these events. It seems like a Caril Fugate, Charlie Starkweather scenario to me.
Just asking.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,737 posts)Archae
(46,358 posts)Or one of those other slick supermarket checkout magazines.
The ones with the latest celebrity train wrecks on the cover.
CaliforniaPeggy
(149,737 posts)I never cease to be amazed at how ludicrous the headlines are!
Archae
(46,358 posts)Ever since Weekly World News went belly up, the Globe has easily taken it's place, especially with their "Our sources say President (fill in the blank) is dying/divorcing/fleeing to Bermuda!"
TexasTowelie
(112,516 posts)Even if it were true (and I don't believe it for one second), WTF would I care?
Squinch
(51,042 posts)"Horrified Farmer Attacked by Lovesick Bigfoot"
FiveGoodMen
(20,018 posts)Squinch
(51,042 posts)Archae
(46,358 posts)One thing I used to do, with my next door neighbor, she'd buy those end of the year "prediction" issues of the supermarket tabloids.
And at the end of the next year, we'd look at their "prediction" accuracy.
And every year it was the same.
We'd take out the vague ones, "A major TV star will die," or the obvious ones. "There will be trouble in the Middle East."
After doing that, their "predictions" were always 100% dead wrong.
Squinch
(51,042 posts)bhikkhu
(10,725 posts)...has a long enough tradition in our patriarchal media-driven society that the desire for lurid scandal may be described as a "gut feeling". Myself, I have about zero tolerance for it.
mrmpa
(4,033 posts)as I don't read those. Just from her flat affect and responses to hearing of the deaths of her brother & mother. Maybe the flatness could be because of her experience(s). But my gut just tells me that the entire story has not quite been told yet. Hannah I think knows (knew) more about the deaths than she is letting on.
This is not a blame the victim post. This is a query as to whether or not other DU'ers also have a feeling that something does not quite gel.
Agschmid
(28,749 posts)We don't know her. It's incredibly hard to predict anyone's reaction to the loss of half their family. People grieve in different ways... And she may not even be able to grieve yet.
I don't think anything is "wrong" with what is going on. I think a man, much her senior, took advantage of here and we may never know why what happened, happened.
bhikkhu
(10,725 posts)to strangers on the internet, to put to rest doubts about whether they were willing participants or not. Whatever your gut might feel, you aren't entitled to know exactly what the girl had to go through, what her exact responses were at every point, what she was wearing, whether she put up an adequate struggle, etc.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)I was completely stunned and in shock for quite some time.
You need to cut the girl a whole lot of slack and leave this to the professionals. You don't have a clue what she has been through.
Safetykitten
(5,162 posts)JI7
(89,279 posts)Pisces
(5,602 posts)before abduction. Odd behavior on her part after she was found and she discovers her mother and brother have been killed.
Whether she was involved or not, she is still a victim. She is a young girls with an older man guiding or persuading her.
Young girls sometimes lie to build a drama or narrative. Don't know if she played a part, but something doesn't seem right.
jaysunb
(11,856 posts)doubts about what had been going on between them.....we shall see.
JI7
(89,279 posts)by the piece of shit.
all her friends said she was creeped out and uncomfortable around him.
bhikkhu
(10,725 posts)...at the expense of a little girl who's been through enough already.
Suich
(10,642 posts)pacalo
(24,721 posts)I have seen the photo of Hannah & her abductor posing in front of an amusement-park style mirror. She was smiling & didn't appear afraid or tense.
I've also heard that Hannah was unaware that her mother & brother had been murdered.
KT2000
(20,591 posts)but there is something very strange about that family. Why allow their daughter to go on overnight trips with the man. The father doesn't seem very upset about the deaths of the mother and son. If the man was best friends why wouldn't they have known they he had so many guns. There was no hint this guy was totally nuts? Why is the girls story different that the police theory. Why didn't the girl know her mother, brother and dog were beaten and killed and what did it mean when she said she wished she tried harder to save them?
Not adding up yet.
MH1
(17,608 posts)because it all seemed to be about the daughter, and nothing about the deaths of the mother and son. I thought maybe I'd just missed that part. And the closeness of the guy to the family prior to this episode invites speculation that there is more than what is being shared publicly.
That said, there's a whole lot more important stuff going on in the world (more important, that is, to large numbers of other people; probably not to the principals in this case).
I am interested in the content of the letters that were written by her and by the kidnapper. She is 16 though, and not an adult. The letter were seized yesterday as evidence by police.
It also struck me as odd that she allegedly was online immediately after being brought home, answering questions.
cali
(114,904 posts)pnwmom
(109,006 posts)when they see pretty girls connected to murders.
Amanda Knox got sent to prison for 4 years because a bunch of Italians had a gut feeling, and still do -- they are going to re-try her in September, even though an appeals court already found her not guilty (and said there was no evidence to convict her.)
The police officer definitively said Hannah was innocent , and he saw all the evidence at the scene. She shouldn't be smeared with people's suspicions for the rest of her life.
MineralMan
(146,338 posts)It's just not done here. Thanks.
NutmegYankee
(16,201 posts)pintobean
(18,101 posts)Instead of victim blaming, why don't we just leave it to the professionals, who are looking at all of the evidence. Your speculation is an attack on a girl who is most likely an innocent victim. Not only does she have to deal with her own experience and the loss of two loved ones, she has to put up with this kind of shit.
chillfactor
(7,584 posts)blaming the victim seems to be a national past time for some people with nothing else to do with their lives...
.
bemildred
(90,061 posts)oberliner
(58,724 posts)You mentioned "flat responses" to questions - is that it?
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)I haven't been following the case all that closely. I did catch a snip of news at the gym the other day, it said something about some letters they wrote back and forth being seized as evidence I think. My wife looked at me and said "I wonder..".
But that's all just wild speculation. I hope not, and that she can just get on with her life. I do understand people thinking that tho. With movies and television entertaining us with wild story lines like Law & Order SVU or similar shows. Hell, I love that show lol. I'm not saying you're blaming the victim, but "gut feelings" like these could be construed as such. I think it's a human trait to take a story and "play" with it in our minds. To explore other possibilities, even if they may not be true.
pnwmom
(109,006 posts)For some reason, pretty girls involved in murders seem to attract extra suspicions.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)Doesn't really take away from a broader point I was trying to make. People minds do tend to speculate about such things naturally, I believe. This doesn't mean I believe it's correct. I should say I believe the young woman's story. Whenever I hear a news story, I digest it and wonder about causes. The how and the why. So it's natural for the speculative thought to come up. What if she was involved with this man in some way. Maybe she knew nothing of the murders? These questions can be answered and or dismissed as more information comes out.
I was more trying to tell the OP I understand the "gut feeling" thing, but its more than likely wrong. And that one should probably take the young woman at her word as we have nothing else to go on. Whether or not posting ones speculative thought here was wise....that is certainly debatable.
pnwmom
(109,006 posts)People do tend to speculate about such things naturally, and we should be very suspicious of those gut feelings.
You might not know about Amanda Knox, but I'm sure you're familiar with the Salem Witch Hunts.
Inkfreak
(1,695 posts)CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...this story because it exposes deep, cultural dysfunction that is better left unexamined.
The public consciousness has no desire to discuss moral issues beyond the black and white analysis of crime and punishment.
And even here, there are those finger-wagging nannies who have never heard a teenage girl blow off her parents or take up with someone or something for no other reason than to piss off her parents or impress her peer group.
The "deep cultural dysfunction" is the lack of services for the angst driven adolescent in your culture.
.
pintobean
(18,101 posts)You're doing your own finger-wagging, and a piss-poor pseudo-psychoanalysis of fellow DUers.
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...as I see 'em.
This board, collectively, cannot rationally discuss teenage sexuality without associating it with a crime of one sort or another. It has even become a 'crime' to talk about it.
What's next....Thought Police?
.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)If they were saying she did, I'm sure the conversation would be different.
Of course people have heardof children who wanted to kill or have killed or had have their parents killed.
But that isn't the case here. So, what is it you want ti discuss?
CanSocDem
(3,286 posts)...in my opinion, they are not a reliable source.
They are very much into controlling the narrative. That is why they have Police Lines and that yellow tape.
"Of course people have heardof children who wanted to kill or have killed or had have their parents killed.
But that isn't the case here. So, what is it you want ti discuss?"
I'm sure there are dozens of plausible explanations on how this whole scenario played out and all, I'm quite convinced, discussions would avoid talking about teenage sexuality and the violent nature of the culture and their possible correlation.
Discussions here get too heated on lessor points, like "crime and punishment".
.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)and my experience in seeing these things play out. If she was involved, you wouldn't be hearing such adamant denials from the police and FBI. They would be saying nothing until it played out. So, I tend to think theey are being truthful here.
pnwmom
(109,006 posts)without thinking she's hiding something evil inside.
That's "The Fatal Gift of Beauty."
veganlush
(2,049 posts)Using the same example. They wiped out her family then went on a crime spree in which she (Carol Fugate) sure seemed to share guilt in. It's one of the problems with the new approach of not taking a suspect alive.
veganlush
(2,049 posts)Comes to mind also. Guy is head over heels for her, does her evil bidding in that case. Could be more to this one too. Dead men tell no tales
boston bean
(36,224 posts)that you are thinking this through clearly. You are putting the minor in control of the actions of this sick perverted adult male.
Plus the authorities have said she had NOTHING to do with it.
veganlush
(2,049 posts)I'm not putting anyone in control of anything. I'm posing questions and having a discussion on a discussion board. "Plus the authorities have said she had NOTHING to do with it." So it's case closed already? Why are they looking at anything then? She corresponded in letters with him. they did overnight trips together. She went immediately to social media in a way that seemed different from what one would expect. She said "He deserved what he got" which is also different from what one would expect to hear from someone in her shoes. These raise questions. I will discuss these things here. You're pretty sure you know all about this case and don't need to see the musings of those of us that don't know everything about like you do. This is a closed case to you. Why are you here? To convince us all that we too need to declare full knowledge?
pnwmom
(109,006 posts)She could have been sending him thank you notes twice a year -- my kids always sent notes when friends and relatives sent gifts. He could have collected them and had quite a stash.
Or maybe she sent him a bunch of notes asking him to stay the hell away!
Whatever she wrote, the police officer saw them and he said there was no question that she was innocent. I'm not going to distrust her simply because she's young and beautiful.
boston bean
(36,224 posts)a more apt comparison would have been to compare Dimaggio to Pam Smart, no?
Yet you said dead men don't talk, and implied she had something to do with it. And by comparing her to Pam Smart, insinuated she was the mastermind. Pam Smart was a disgusting pervert that used sex with a minor to get him to kill her husband. You see the difference now, and the problem with your comparison?
I just don't think you have thought through this comparison very well.
Here are some links for you to read about the authorities saying she had nothing to do with it even afer discovering phone records and letters:
http://www.nydailynews.com/news/national/hannah-anderson-victim-played-role-kidnap-ordeal-authorities-article-1.1429573
And just 19 minutes ago this link:
http://www.latimes.com/local/lanow/la-me-ln-hannah-anderson-strictly-a-victim-of-dimaggio-sheriff-maintains-20130817,0,6000246.story
Captain Stern
(2,201 posts)That "gut feeling" probably comes from hearing shit the media throws out there like "he had her handwritten letters" and "teen and abductor exchanged phone calls".
It's disgusting. Of course the outlets that report this stuff (with no explanation whatsoever) will claim they aren't trying to imply anything....that they are just reporting the facts. But, that's bullshit. They're trying to make a story, and arouse as many "gut feelings" as possible.
HappyMe
(20,277 posts)the whole investigation is completed. Trying to put some blame on that girl at this point is wrong.
There are still people in this town who have that same "gut feeling" about Elizabeth Smart. Unless the police do a complete 180 and present us with evidence to the contrary, she's 100% the victim here.
kestrel91316
(51,666 posts)LittleBlue
(10,362 posts)Though I would bet a great sum on her being involved sexually with him. That explains the letters, condoms and reported overnight trips with him.
My guess: When she realized how crazy he was, and what he'd done, it probably dawned on her that the whole thing was a bad idea. But sex is quite a far cry from conspiracy to murder her brother and mother. I don't think it's worth seriously considering unless some proof implicating her turns up.
R B Garr
(16,994 posts)Unless the cat went with the mother, brother and dog to the visit to his house, which is highly unlikely since most cats don't like car trips, how did DiMaggio get the cat from their house? Maybe that was part of their 13 phone calls the police discovered. That and when she mentioned under her breath that the horseback riders overheard, "We're all in trouble now." Why would she be in trouble? It seems like maybe she wasn't actually abducted, but left with him willingly. They were on the road for 6 days. Obvioiusly there were stops along the way, yet I can see her being hesitant to leave the man who was her support system. I can see her knowing that her family might be subdued, but I doubt she had any knowledge they would be murdered. The murder scenario may have escalated when it all started going down, but the fires involve some planning, too.
She's still a victim of this older man all the way around, so that's why the police would present it that way. Yet her letters were part of a warrant, so obviously they interested the police. He obviously preyed on her for quite some time since he knew her her whole life. I see people keep mentioning Thank You notes -- wouldn't that also imply he was preying on her by buying her things and/or doing her favors so she would thank him and earn him more favor with him.
This all went down in my area as an Amber Alert and constant news stories that there was a killer on the loose. I really don't think the accusations are necessary that people are bad to consider the circumstances surrounding this crime when it was 24/7 news with new details coming out all the time. I don't see anyone blaming her -- just questioning the extent of their relationship that would lead to such a crime.