Rachel: "Letting our closest allies do it while we stand silent is the same thing as us doing it"

[markpkessinger]

If the united states wants to convince the world that the Glenn Greenwalds and Laura Poitrases of the world are correct when they say the u.s. government is going too far, underline and put flashing red lights on the reporting that says counterterrorism is being used to justify all sorts of things not justified by the actual threat of terrorism and have, in fact, green lit gross government overreach and intrusion and intimidation of legitimate activity including journalism, then putting journalist and their families through marathon interrogations and seizing all their electronics is a really great way to start convincing the world that all that reporting is accurate. Letting our closest allies do it while we stand silent is the same thing as us doing it. a dangerous affront to who we are as a country and democracy.

Watch full segment: http://www.nbcnews.com/id/26315908/ns/msnbc_tv-rachel_maddow_show/#52797608

Oh, and move over kids: we gotta make room for Rachel under this bus!

[daleanime]

1. Where ever we are.....

Rachel is good company.

[polynomial]

2. Sometimes what we see is shocking

What you see is what you get, some people are made out of wood and some people are made out of plastic. That’s part of the words to a song long ago popular in the early seventies. However what you see could turn into some kind of shock in that many just stare like a deer frozen in the light beam. Why should it be so unusual to just stare to take in all of what is happening sifting through to try honestly to discern “What’s Goin On”.

Recently Snowden and Manning releasing secrets Americans are not supposed to know have a new metal effect that drives thinking. Now our government has had the capability to develop my personal behavior with Metadata that includes impulse reasoning with a mathematical crisp field of certainty. Begging another question will an observed American carry out that proposed impulse. It is for certain a new consciousness is born. With this a new feeling scary that resonates in many minds echoing the right to life needing that free will to think through good versus evil. Exactly not whether many are politically right or left but just what is good or bad.

Also, whether to abort this sense of secret spying is placed before you as the decider. The new born common ground “secret spying” begs the question to stop it or continue it. To abort or not to. Here, A Journalist Rachael Maddow openly defines this as not doing anything is as peculiar as don’t ask, don’t tell mental Clinton era reasoning especially designed for Gay’s. America went through a whole decade or more of don’t ask, don’t tell metal convolution, that from my view point is weird. Especially in the military and likely in secret intelligence parts of our system that operated with total preference that favored gay’s.

As many dig deeper Rachael Maddow having a wonderful personality happy go lucky especially warm and seemingly honest with good intentions offers up a totally stressful dark side in a hidden veil of analysis

[mimi85]

3. Perhaps

you should have posted this after some coffee and breakfast. Or maybe not at all.

[Cryptoad]

18. Let him fly into this country

I dont think we will ask the Brits to search him!

[Cooley Hurd]

4. Kick and rec - it was a tremendous segment.

[Little Star]

6. Saw it last night & agree it was a tremendous segment!

[morningfog]

5. Notice the Administration refuses to say whether the seized information

had been shared with them.

[bonniebgood]

7. Only Murdock newpapers are legit with legit journalist. which is why

faux news is allowed to exist here and across the pond. You know Greenwald is a lying
terrorist and fox murdocks, Saudi Kings are truth tellers. WTF

[cascadiance]

8. But we no longer have Fox having a monopoly of middle eastern owned media here...

Al Jazeera's coming this week!!!

[another_liberal]

14. Hear! Hear!

And it is long past due!

[treestar]

9. Bullshit

What US centric claptrap. We are responsible for what other countries do?

What egomania. Journalists are above the law in some of their minds, apparently.

[Bragi]

11. You need a laugh track here

I presume you forgot the sarcasm smilies, so you need a laugh track after your assertion that illegally detained and surveilled journalists think they're "above the law".

[Cryptoad]

19. The Truth

doesn't need a smiley

[Civilization2]

20. Journalism is now equal to "terrorism"? What next criticism of the corporate-military state??

Perhaps we should make uncomfortable journalism and criticism of the corporate-military state capital offences? Perhaps we should hold these trials in secret, since the information is so damaging to the state, and corporate security,. er, I mean "national security".

Your "US centric" line is silly, and you know it. Same noise used in the beginnings of the renditions scandals,.

[secondwind]

10. I think she is right. n/t

[another_liberal]

12. Tell them like it is!

Good for you, Rachel.

[Bragi]

13. Note the absence of the usual suspects

Note that the band of pro-surveillance posters seems to have left this thread untouched. Was there an email from HQ?

[Cerridwen]

15. Look upthread. It just now turned 8am on the east coast.

There's another in a different thread trashing the ACLU and trying to equate them with the kkk and misrepresenting the ACLU's stance on the citizen's united ruling.

As soon as everyone's morning caffeine kicks in, the games will begin anew.

[MyNameGoesHere]

16. Sorry Rachel, that is old America think, we are now in new amurka.

in new amurka, the little kitties are scared of the boogeyman. Scared little kitties do not act rational.

[Cryptoad]

17. Oh me!!!

Searching the" partner" of a know thief and distributor of stolen Documents,,,,,??????


OHHHHH the Horror of it!

geez

[markpkessinger]

22. Since when has Greenwald been charged with theft? n/t

[Cryptoad]

39. Never said he was,,,,

he has already publicly confessed to have possession of stolen Classified Documents,,,,, but stay tuned, he will bee charged before it is over with.

[markpkessinger]

42. You said, he was "the 'partner' of a known thief"

Who would that be then?

[Cryptoad]

55. That be Greewald,,,,,,

He has publicly confess that he has stolen documents..... that be a thief.

[markpkessinger]

60. Greenwald has received stolen documents from a whistleblower . . .

. . . he did not take the documents. That is not, under any legal definition of theft, make him a thief.

[Cryptoad]

61. Sorry,,,,,

but to be a whistle blower you must report a crime..... which to date has not been done! Lots of talk, speculation and conjecture,,,,,, but proof of crimes. The only crime to date is Snoeden stealing documents.

[markpkessinger]

62. Right -- SNOWDEN, not GREENWALD n/t

Greenwald is not a thief by any legal definition whatsoever. You are trying to obfuscate my refutation of your claim that Greenwald is a thief.

[Cryptoad]

63. You are a thief

if you knowingly possess stolen property

[markpkessinger]

64. You might be guilty of receiving stolen goods . . .

. . . but you are NOT by any legal definition a thief.

[Cryptoad]

69. not much differences

both crimes of moral turpitude

[The Link]

25. The "partner". Pretty transparent.

[Cryptoad]

43. Of what? nt

[The Link]

65. You are clearly a "liberal" and a "progressive"

[Cryptoad]

67. Are you down to

just personal attack,,,,, speaks volumes about you.

if you think you Demotarians own liberalism and progressivism you best take a recount of your numbers.......

[The Link]

68. Just quoting...geez.

[Cryptoad]

71. Quoting what?

still no point ?

[DisgustipatedinCA]

26. what the fuck is a "know thief",,,,,,,,?????

[Cryptoad]

46. That is called a typo

here is the "n" i left out see if you can figure it out now

[markpkessinger]

29. What's with the square quotes around the word partner?

Homophobic much?

[Cryptoad]

50. Its a quote,,,,,, geez

what has that got to do with Homophobia ,,,, paranoia much?

[NuclearDem]

31. What's with the quotes around partner?

[Cryptoad]

53. just quoting,,,,,,geez nt

[Blue_Tires]

21. Sadly, I've gotten bashed mercilessly in the past for making the exact same point

on Israel...

[Douglas Carpenter]

23. knr

[JaneyVee]

24. Telling our closest allies what they can and can't do is called dictatorship.

[Marr]

28. Lame. /nt

[JaneyVee]

30. Right, except when everyone uses it to defend other countries, such as

"We have no right telling other countries what to do!" Or "why do we always have to force our beliefs on to other countries?!"

[Marr]

33. Lame.

The UK is not Cuba. They are our closest ally, and our governments work together closely.

[JaneyVee]

36. But you agree that we are not the UK, right?

[Marr]

38. You're asking me if I agree that the United States is not the United Kingdom?

Yes... the US and the UK are two different countries.

Two different countries that are closely allied and have work together as partners for decades. Maddow's criticism was about our government 'standing by silently as our allies do these things'. She said doing those things and simply standing by silently as your long-time allies do them is essentially the same thing. I would agree.

[NuclearDem]

40. Ok, two points

1) The UK is our closest ally and philosophical/historical twin. This isn't the US forcing Western ideals on the Third World.

2) The UK specifically addressed the US when they planned to detain Miranda. We had every right and responsibility to tell them not to do it. This isn't American cultural imperialism.

[markpkessinger]

47. Well said! n/t

[JaneyVee]

48. Good points. But the UK gave us a heads up as they were about to detain him.

We were not asked our opinion, only a heads up. Let UK take the blame, America gets the blame for enough stuff.

[jeff47]

27. When did we conquer the UK?

You'd think Rachel would have covered such a large event on her broadcast.

Perhaps she could supply a list of countries that we have control over? Maybe with the percentage of control?

[Cali_Democrat]

32. I thought the US has no right to bully othercountries and tell them what to do?

[markpkessinger]

37. Nobody has suggested the U.S. should have "bullied" the U.K. . . .

. . . but it is intellectually dishonest in the extreme to suggest that if the U.S., having received advance notice of the planned detention of MIranda, had raised an objectionf, tha the U.K. wouldn't have honored that objection.

[Cali_Democrat]

41. So in this instance, it would have been OK to tell a sovereign country what to do....

so if the US told them not to detain Miranda, that's OK.

[markpkessinger]

45. Are you saying the U.S. government can never voice an objection . . .

. . . to what a sovereign country does?

[Cali_Democrat]

56. Of course the US can voice an objection

That's not my point.

Should they voice an objection? That's what people are debating.

Many of the same folks who say the US should have told the UK not to detain him are the same people who have issues with the US telling other countries what to do in other instances.

[markpkessinger]

70. I think people have a problem with the U.S. telling other countries what to do under threat of force

I challenge you to find any instance on DU where folks have objected to the U.S. raising an objection or otherwise making its wishes known to another country. This is a straw man.

[Cha]

54. that's when they think they're doing it. When they don't do it.. it's called

"the same as doing it". See how that works? Either way.. the Whine flows freely about the bad ol USA.

[Cali_Democrat]

57. Bingo. n/t

[sheshe2]

66. +1! nt

[War Horse]

34. I expect more nuanced reporting from Rachel n/t

[liberal_at_heart]

35. She is right. The government's actions are proving the claims being made about them.

[kelliekat44]

44. So should we invade the UK? Rachel, your my girl...but not on this. nt

[liberal_at_heart]

49. that's quite a leap. Those are really the only two options? Either never criticize other

countries or invade them? We're not allowed to criticize the President or any other democrat and now we're not allowed to criticize the UK? Is there anybody we are allowed to criticize?

[markpkessinger]

52. No invasion required nor suggested in Rachel's segment . . .

See http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023499716 and #37 above.

[Rex]

51. Under the bus with you!!!!!

You failed to maintain the government narrative!

[DJ13]

58. Oh, and move over kids: we gotta make room for Rachel under this bus!

There's no more room under it, we are starting to pile them on top as well.

[markiv]

59. I see nothing wrong with letting Airstrip One handle this

it gives them purpose, and helps them earn their keep in Oceana

[idwiyo]

72. K&R