“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States..."

[MrScorpio]

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
— Isaac Asimov (via invisiblelad)

[cantbeserious]

1. + 1

eom

[WillyT]

2. K & R !!!

[PDJane]

3. Yes.

[snappyturtle]

4. Ignorance is bliss is becoming the national past-time

and creed all rolled into one. imho

[hobbit709]

5. Read H.L. Mencken's words on the Scopes Trial

Nothing has really changed

[Bernardo de La Paz]

85. "Mencken had built his career as a sharp-tongued opponent to all such established orthodoxies."

http://www.h-net.org/reviews/showrev.php?id=32241

The Scopes trial gave Mencken a perfect opportunity to vent his spleen against the foibles of the U.S. masses. He concluded that most U.S. citizens remained “Homo Neanderthalensis” (p. 11). The problem at the root of the Scopes trial, Mencken argued, was that “the great majority of men” consistently and stupidly fought against “every step in human progress” (p. 12). At times, Mencken’s raw elitism still has power to shock. In denouncing the “lower orders,” who supported antievolution laws, he explained that “the human race is divided into two sharply differentiated and mutually antagonistic classes, almost genera” (pp. 13, 16). To Mencken, the great unwashed needed more than just a bath; they “almost” represented a lower species entirely.

For all his scorn of biblical literalists, Mencken defended the right of every person to believe in inanity, in “imbecilities” (p. 120). However, these essays show the limits Mencken placed on those rights. No person, no matter how stupidly devoted to religion, could be allowed to “inflict [those beliefs] upon other men by force.... He has no right to demand that they be treated as sacred” (p. 120). For Mencken, this was the crux of the issue in Dayton. The Scopes trial served as a showdown between the enlightened, secular few and the masses with their “simian gabble” (p. 129).

Thus, Mencken had no truck with the notion that education should be rooted in the culture and experiences of children. He did not agree that schooling should be germane to children’s lives outside of school. Rather, these essays reveal that Mencken determined to use education as a weapon to combat U.S. citizens’ stubborn and intractable small-mindedness. For Mencken, there was a right answer. It lay in the spread of secular civilization and enlightenment. Education was the only hope to cure backward peoples of their inferior ways.

(emphasis added)

[RainDog]

6. k&r brother n/t

[MrScorpio]

8. It's not hard to see who's to blame...

[Beartracks]

11. +1 Believing vs Thinking

And, unfortunately, belief seems to engender certainty.

==================

[kentuck]

25. +1000

I almost didn't see the GOP elephant above the head of the father...

[Buns_of_Fire]

63. ...and part of the Gadsden Flag on the other side of the doorway.

These cartoonists are a subtle and subversive lot, they are...

[Phlem]

10. Amen to that brother!

perusing through some of the threads today, there's no shortage of that here in DU either.

-p

[Agony]

12. March of a stupid people

Asimov didn't say that but I think he would have if I hadn't thought of it first?

[Jackpine Radical]

15. The Marching Morons

C.M. Kornbluth

[hobbit709]

17. Day Of The Moron

H. Beam Piper

[Jackpine Radical]

18. I used to love Piper, but hadn't read any of it in decades.

I didn't even know about this title, but it's downloading to the Kindle app on my iPod Mini as I write this. Free!

Thanks

[hobbit709]

19. Gutenberg Project has all his stuff

Null-ABC is another good one

[Jackpine Radical]

21. I've got a lot of Gutenburg stuff on my readers.

Everything from English & German versions of Marx's Das Kapital to everything H.Rider Haggard ever wrote.

[Agony]

22. congrats are due you on 15k milestone!!!

cheers
Agony

[navarth]

57. Yes!!!

You are the only poster I've ever seen here to relate to that story. (Except me of course). Thanks, I feel a bit less lonely about that. I keep telling people about that story and how it so fucking coming true.

There is a movied called 'idiocracy' which is a pale takeoff on the idea. I watched some of it and there are some funny lines but I kept thinking about Kornbluth the whole time. Whoever made the movie ought to be sending residuals to Kornbluth's family!!! my 2 cents

[KoKo]

81. Advertising and Branding has Reached a Pinnacle ...And it needs to get Taken Down...

We are close to a "Tipping Point" where it's either "Power to the People" or the People Give Up and it's Power to the Corporations and the Spying Agents.

As a War Baby....I refuse to let us go back to the path of FASCISM. But, the signs are Everywhere.

We have a brief window of time.... How can we use that window..it's only open a crack now before it closes. We Worked Hard...but...it isn't working out the way we thought it would...and this is a "Battle line Drawn" with the latest revelations from all the Whistleblowers ...along with those who've been working "behind the scenes" since way back.

Who will win...or will it be the long decline into nowhere that so many will suffer from before people WAKE UP and understand the SCAM on them? They haven't so far....so will they?

[Grins]

48. Best line...

The best line is this one:

"You've got to remember that these are just simple farmers. These are people of the land. The common clay of the new West. You know... morons." - Blazing Saddles.

[Jackpine Radical]

60. I recall the scene vividly. Yup.

[Richard D]

13. I think it's deliberate

Some sort of weird plan to try to escape the zombie apocalypse.

[Half-Century Man]

14. Our Republicans are proud to continue the Dark Ages.

They are trying to reinstate the nobility and feudalism. They want an all encompassing Mother Church. They want to own everything and kick the surfs around. They want their chance to burn witches.

Think about what they have done and disagree if you can.

[sulphurdunn]

80. The truth

of your statement is supported by 2,000 years of Western Civilization which coincides approximately with the eradication of paganism.

[niyad]

89. they want an all-encompassing FATHER church--think about how they treat mothers.

they do want to burn witches again (if you have read some of the really creepy stuff from the ultra-ultra fundie reichwingnuts). kind of hard to kick surf around, though.

[Half-Century Man]

93. Uhhh, no I'm right, A surf, in this case, is a wet peasant.

I'm sorry. I need to level up in proof reading.

[NightWatcher]

16. Willfully, no, gleefully ignorant. Proud to be dumbasses

[kentuck]

20. Amen to that one!

They're not stupid - they're just ignorant. There is a difference. Right?

[paland99]

23. USA USA (chant)

HEY!! Stupid people have a right to be represented too. And there are many in Congress who represent them.

[irisblue]

24. yes, depressingly true. n/t

[Spitfire of ATJ]

26. The way I put it,...

"America is the only country in the world where a major bar fight starts with the words, "Yew sound lak one o' dem college boys.""

[Rebellious Republican]

27. Isaack WHO?

Isaac Asimov (/ˈaɪzɨk ˈæzɨmɒv/ eye-zək az-ə-mov;[2] born Isaak Yudovich Ozimov; Russian: Исаак Юдович Озимов; c. January 2, 1920[1] – April 6, 1992) was an American author and professor of biochemistry at Boston University, best known for his works of science fiction and for his popular science books. Asimov was one of the most prolific writers of all time, having written or edited more than 500 books and an estimated 90,000 letters and postcards.[3] His books have been published in nine out of ten major categories of the Dewey Decimal Classification.[4]
Asimov is widely considered a master of hard science fiction and, along with Robert A. Heinlein and Arthur C. Clarke, he was considered one of the "Big Three" science fiction writers during his lifetime.[5] Asimov's most famous work is the Foundation Series;[6] his other major series are the Galactic Empire series and the Robot series. The Galactic Empire novels are explicitly set in earlier history of the same fictional universe as the Foundation Series. Later, beginning with Foundation's Edge, he linked this distant future to the Robot and Spacer stories, creating a unified "future history" for his stories much like those pioneered by Robert A. Heinlein and previously produced by Cordwainer Smith and Poul Anderson.[7] He wrote hundreds of short stories, including the social science fiction "Nightfall", which in 1964 was voted by the Science Fiction Writers of America the best short science fiction story of all time. Asimov wrote the Lucky Starr series of juvenile science-fiction novels using the pen name Paul French.[8]
The prolific Asimov also wrote mysteries and fantasy, as well as much nonfiction. Most of his popular science books explain scientific concepts in a historical way, going as far back as possible to a time when the science in question was at its simplest stage. He often provides nationalities, birth dates, and death dates for the scientists he mentions, as well as etymologies and pronunciation guides for technical terms. Examples include Guide to Science, the three volume set Understanding Physics, Asimov's Chronology of Science and Discovery, as well as works on astronomy, mathematics, the Bible, William Shakespeare's writing and chemistry.
Asimov was a long-time member and vice president of Mensa International, albeit reluctantly; he described some members of that organization as "brain-proud and aggressive about their IQs".[9] He took more joy in being president of the American Humanist Association.[10] The asteroid 5020 Asimov, a crater on the planet Mars,[11] a Brooklyn, New York elementary school, and a literary award are named in his honor.

[chervilant]

28. Not just ignorance,

wilful ignorance! Richard Hofstadter wrote an excellent article on this very topic.

[Rebellious Republican]

30. Many thanks for the reference, I am not familiar with this author!

Did a quick search, good stuff.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

73. Choice

[defacto7]

29. Thanks.

It's so nice to hear this outside of my own head.

[MindMover]

31. This cult has been around and promulgated by even our Presidentes ....

just take a short gander back in our history, like the last President .... DUH


""

[Bernardo de La Paz]

77. And would-be presidents:

[dsharp88]

32. Especially in Louisiana...

where nearly a third of Republicans polled think President Obama is to blame for the failings of the response to Hurricane Katrina.

I wish that was a joke.

[Omnith]

33. Mr Asimov makes a good point.

That's why I'm glad I live in a Republic.

[louis-t]

46. Remember Falwell and others repeating the line

"First of all, this is not a democracy, it's a republic"? One of their talking points in the '90s. One of my aunts hit me with it one day. I quickly pointed out that 'democracy' is the style of government, 'republic' is the entity. That stupid line faded pretty quickly.

[Art_from_Ark]

86. Back in the '60s, I saw a bumper sticker that read

"This is a REPUBLIC, not a democracy! Let's keep it that way!"

[SammyWinstonJack]

61. Republic of......Ireland? the Congo? Texas?

[sakabatou]

34. Bookmarked

[bluedeathray]

35. Cult is the proper term

When one is engaged in such blind, enveloping singularity. Ignorance IS correctible. But not when the holder is proud of it and insistent on it's validity.

[mountain grammy]

37. My inlaws belong to a "cult of ignorance." It's their church!

So many evangelical churches spreading the "cult of ignorance." A new dark ages.

[grantcart]

38. My irony meter just broke its needle.

[Puzzledtraveller]

39. Purple

[heaven05]

40. +10000

and will get a lot worse if faux news, rushieboy, beckerhead, hannitick and the rest have their way.

[polichick]

41. America, land of the dumbshits. Sad, but true.

[NewJeffCT]

42. Didn't a high percentage of Louisiana Republicans

blame Obama for the poor Hurricane Katrina response?

[BillyRibs]

43. I've always said,

Those who do not study history are doomed to repeat it, the rest of us are handcuffed to the bumper for the ride-Vicar

[kentuck]

44. Ignorance?

[Bunnahabhain]

45. Excellent quote

Thanks for sharing it.

[Little Star]

47. I rec alost every post you write. Some I may have missed but...

You sure have had some good OPs! k&r

[Chaco Dundee]

49. no shit

In a society where the majority of people believe in creationism,ignorance runs rampant.

[ck4829]

50. But... dinosaurs and man coexisted! Only 4 elements! Pi is exactly 3! Teach the controversy!

[hfojvt]

51. there's a cult of arrogance too

and unfortunately this quote just feeds it.

I'd quote MLK here, but my post might get deleted.

[CBGLuthier]

52. It's arrogant to be smart and call out stupidity?

Yeah, we really do have a problem. Damn!

[hfojvt]

54. it's arrogant to think you are smart

and arrogant to belittle other people for stupidity.

Taking a big chance, here is what Martin said about people who might be stupid, or relatively stupid.

"Everybody can be great. Because everybody can serve.

You don't have to have a college degree to serve. You don't have to make your subject and your verb agree to serve. You don't have to know about Plato and Aristotle to serve. You don't have to know Einstein's theory of relativity to serve. You don't have to know the second theory of thermodynamics in physics to serve.

You only need a heart full of grace. A soul generated by love." - Martin Luther King

He said they could be great. He didn't try to tear them down by "calling them out". He tried to build them up, to encourage them to be great.

Perhaps we should remember THAT on the 50th anniversary of "I have a dream".

[CBGLuthier]

56. Nonsense

I have spent most of my life being smarter than 99% of the population. What is wrong, or arrogant, if you insist, is to treat people poorly because they are not as smart. That I attempt to not do. But for me to pretend that everyone is smart, smart like me, is foolish.

Some stupidity must be called what it is. Stupidity.

[hfojvt]

64. and so have I

but only if you believe standardized tests.

I did more studying and reading than most of the population too.

But you know what I find. Is that a lot of people who are not as good at math or chess as I am, nonetheless know how to fix cars, and do plumbing, electrical, sewing, and cooking and stuff that I am mostly ignorant of.

My mom's mom was not a college graduate like my dad's mom, but she knew how to raise plants, grow food, and make some awesome strawberry shortcake.

And that's worth something on the open market. You wanna call her stupid and you might just lose some teeth. Which would be pretty stupid of you.

[Ocelot]

67. Stupidity always begets violence

Pick an argument with someone who's dumb (on a Palin level) and their last resort/retort is usually to threaten or imply violence.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

69. Unfortunately, hfojvt wrote "You wanna call her stupid and you might just lose some teeth." nt

[Bernardo de La Paz]

68. The discussion is not about strawberry shortcake vs. thermodynamics.

The discussion is about people who are willfully ignorant of things they need to know to make intelligent voting choices.

Like Republicans in Louisiana who suffered from Hurricane Katrina and the aftermath of Bush's lack of response and suffered from the Republican budget cutting that sabotaged the levees. And yet they blame it on Obama (28%) or are not sure (44%).

It is not arrogant to call such people willfully ignorant or stupid.

It has nothing to do with your mother.

Invoking your mother is an illogical introduction of an extraneous topic that has nothing to do with the line of discussion in this thread, but is intended to derail it. It is a fallacious technique of debate. Distracting and destructive. It is rather like the people who just want to start fights by putting a chip on their shoulder and daring people to knock it off.

[hfojvt]

98. the OP made no mention of Louisiana

and if you want to talk about ignorant, what about the huge percentage of liberals who approve of Obama?

And my mom's mom was an example of somebody who was not very smart in some ways, but was smart in some other ways. How is that not relevant to a discussion of intelligence?

My own response was to the OP, not to the thread. it didn't derail anything.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

65. People can be great and stupid at the same time. Duh.

A woman can save a man from drowning at great risk to her life and still believe that Obama was responsible for the Katrina aftermath in Louisiana.

Stupidity doesn't prevent people from doing great things, but it does vastly decrease the chance that they will.

Your MLK quote does not logically apply to this discussion.

[hfojvt]

95. actually it does

because the arrogant think that their extra knowledge, in some things, makes them superior to others. That it makes them greater than others.

But consider, if you will a grid. With ignorance on the x axis and kindness on the y axis. Thus there are four combinations.

Informed + kind
informed + unkind
uninformed + kind
uninformed + unkind.

MLK and myself (although I clearly only speak for myself) would say that the KIND people are greater than the UNKIND people - thus the uninformed + kind are superior to the informed + unkind.

That, in fact, Asimov was wrong, because ignorance and kindness is not just equal to knowledge and unkindness, it is superior to it. You wanna brag about something - brag about how many people you have helped. Don't go boasting about how smart you are.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

99. You conflate intelligence with knowledge. The two are different. nt

[tclambert]

88. When 29% of Louisiana Republicans surveyed blame Obama for the poor response to hurricane Katrina,

which happened over three years before he became President, I'm having trouble not calling out, "Stupid! Stupid! Stupid!"

I'm sorry I'm so arrogant.

[Shankapotomus]

94. Ignorance is worthy of sympthy

when its consequences are kept to yourself but when someone, like a republican, clings to their ignorance out of competitive malice and that ignorance is hurting others, what do you do? How do you react? It seems when ignorance gets a little power or finds itself a group of kindred spirits it can turn into arrogance very quickly.

I don't think people should be put down for ignorance but when the ignorant put down the knowledgeable, as when the likes of Rush Limbaugh scoff at climatologists over climate change, I think, through their own intolerance, they lose all claims to tolerance in return.

[AsahinaKimi]

83. Goman na hitoga kirada

"I hate arrogance!"

[tclambert]

87. Gort, Klaatu barada nikto.

[AsahinaKimi]

92. ...

naniyo?

[hfojvt]

96. dozo yoroshiku

but hate is not good.

[AsahinaKimi]

97. demo

Tokiniha sore ga hitsuyōdearu. However, Sometimes it is necessary.

[Ocelot]

53. The movie "Idiocracy" is prescient

It was made in 2006 and several of its concepts have already come to pass... like spelling and grammar becoming "optional" in our written communications. My local TV station's news site is now so rife with spelling/grammar errors that its web "stories" have become almost unreadable.

[GoCubsGo]

72. It was a documnetary...

My local TV stations and newspapers are the same way. It's really sickening.

[ileus]

55. Fudruckers!

No No....buttfuckers.

[Egalitarian Thug]

58. More than a cult, it is an epidemic. n/t

[Bernardo de La Paz]

59. "The saddest aspect of life ..."

[Bernardo de La Paz]

62. A graphic for MrScorpio's original post

[Bluenorthwest]

84. My favorite photo of Asimov is of him sitting in an armchair built out of his many,many books.

Like the Story King.

[calimary]

66. Dayum! Quote of the CENTURY!

“There is a cult of ignorance in the United States, and there has always been. The strain of anti-intellectualism has been a constant thread winding its way through our political and cultural life, nurtured by the false notion that democracy means that “my ignorance is just as good as your knowledge.”
— Isaac Asimov (via invisiblelad)

Good post, MrScorpio!!! Sad, infuriating, and disgraceful as hell. But one of the best quotes I've ever read. That's as good as one I found that was attributed to Adolf Hitler - "what luck for the leaders that men do not think."

[noiretextatique]

70. let's not insult the cult members

by calling them ignorant

[Hydra]

71. Isaac nailed it

One of my favorites lately is the idea that a person's opinion is not up for questioning and must be respected as "their personal truth."

If an opinion is not grounded in facts...what do you know, it's WRONG! Having the opinion that our gov't is honest, or that President Obama was born in Kenya, or that nuclear power is harmless is not "just as valid" as the facts.

[Paladin]

74. Bravo, Mr. Asimov.

"My ignorance is just as good as your knowledge." Sounds like the organizing principle for most of what I encounter on Facebook.

[DearAbby]

75. They have pushed the purity nonsense to the extreme

The base of the party believes, Obama is responsible for the poor response to Katrina. Heck of a job Brownie never happened. They are into incest area, mutated thinking..Selective Alzheimer's...or...I hear banjos.

And get this, these are the people, Mitch McConnell has to be afraid of...the goobers. Imagine the hell that man is going through, to be fearful of the base, who probably couldn't tell you the difference between a law and legislation...some of the brighter ones may sing you school house rock's "It's just a bill" Imagine having to pander to idiots, must be all sorts of hell for Mitchie. And Boehner...look at him, dropping to his knees before people like this.


Political incest, this is what happens.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

76. Two philosophies (Neil deGrasse Tyson)

[redstatebluegirl]

78. Thank you!

My husband and I are called intellectual snobs daily here in Oklahoma. Lately that phrase is used more than "crazy northern liberals".... You should be moderately well educated to be able to vote. Book learning or self taught either way at least be able to read and digest information and ideas yourself.

[Bernardo de La Paz]

79. "I give it three months":

[felix_numinous]

82. It is one thing to uninformed and to know it,

and another thing to be so afraid of ones own vulnerability that there is a need to wear a rigid worldview as armor against ones own humanity.

We can only take in a certain amount information every day, people from all walks of life are only real experts in their own areas, the rest is speculation. Even what we read is a reference--but rigid thinking has created cults of cemented ideas that can only scrape and wear against other worldviews, especially open ended ones.

If people would say, 'in my opinion' or 'I believe' or 'it appears' or such, then what follows is a little easier to take.

[paleotn]

90. Damn straight!! (nt)

[Hekate]

91. Asimov was a brilliant man.

Thanks for the so-apt quote.