10 Things Transphobes Say That Make Me *Facepalm*

[JackBeck]

(snip)

3. Girls have XX chromosomes, boys have XY chromosomes. Period.

Unless you have Complete Androgen Insensitivity Syndrome (CAIS). Or an XO karyotype. Or XXY. Or XYY. Or 5-alpha-reductase deficiency. Or Swyer syndrome. Or genetic mosaicism. Or 17-β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase III deficiency. Or Progestin-induced virilisation... etc...

You know, lots of community colleges these days have good intro to biology courses available.

(snip)

6. Psychologists and psychiatrists are just a bunch of Godless liberals who tell people what they want to hear and push diagnoses.

Yes, because finding out for certain I am trans has made my life so much easier. Because therapists get paid to tell people what they want to hear. Because it in no way shape or form violates their professional ethics to tell people things which are highly likely to make them attempt suicide.

Oh, and my therapist? She's a Catholic republican.

(snip)

9. Calling transgender people "its"

When you resort to calling people non-human, or sub-human, you're treading on dangerous ground. I don't care if I am breaking Godwin's law here because every time I hear about transgender people being called "it," the hair the back of my neck stands up. Reducing human beings to something with no value is a hallmark of propaganda used in genocide. "Plague carrying rats" for Jews in Germany. "Cockroaches" for Tutsis in Rwanda. Darfurians were systemically referred to as "slaves".

When transgender people are labeled "it" and as predators upon women and children, it should make your skin crawl too.

More at: http://www.huffingtonpost.com/brynn-tannehill/transphobes_b_3780432.html

[Posteritatis]

1. I'm surprised the "I'm the only taxpayer" idiocy didn't make that list. (nt)

[JackBeck]

24. Me too.

That meme makes my blood boil.

[mockmonkey]

2. kick n/t

[BlueJazz]

3. #11 Why would someone want to change ??

Gosh...it seemed like a nice day and ...what the hell....

[JackBeck]

25. Can you please elaborate? n/t

[BlueJazz]

28. I was thinking that since people ask strange, invasive, thoughtless, questions regarding gender..

...changing or changes, that that would be one of them.

Rather like "Well...if you're a man, why would you want to change to a woman ???"
or "If you are a man, why would you want to date another man"

My answer would be "They change so some dumb-fuck can ask stupid questions"

[BlueJazz]

27. Posted to myself.

[Mr.Bill]

4. These things bother me, too.

But what you are describing is ignorance and hatred, not phobia.

[ashling]

8. Reprise Morgan Freeman on homo"phobia":

[Mr.Bill]

9. That's pretty much it. n/t

[calimary]

12. Man, THAT is a thing of beauty!

Truly! NOTHING phobic about it. It's not about fear. Hell, it's NOT going to rub off on you or stain your clothing or spoil your food, and it isn't contagious!!! You're simply an asshole.

[MillennialDem]

18. No, it's fear they are also gay, or otherwise uncomfortable with their own sexuality.

[calimary]

39. I think you're onto something here.

Self-loathing propels a lot of other hatred, she said, her mind racing directly toward teabagger-ville...

[Number23]

5. Rec. Informative thread.

[tom_kelly]

6. Why are people spending so much time and energy on this?

You've made your points and agreed/disagreed with others. You're not going to change the way others refer to him/her and it shouldn't ruin your mood either way. If Manning was a personal friend of mine I would certainly refer to him the way he prefers. He is not a personal friend of mine and when I refer to him as a he its because he's a male. It seems as though some DUer's worlds have fallen apart because of this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

7. people do change. social norms change. people become less bigoted

although of course there will be those that cling to their bigotry till the bitter end

[tom_kelly]

15. I'm not bigoted!

I just don't know why you're making this out to be such a big deal. It seams that every fourth thread is about members (not you specifically) wanting other members to recognize Mannings current desire by blessing it in their opinions. Drop it! You've made your point, now stop posting about it. You're the one labeling other members as bigots. Good job!

[Bluenorthwest]

26. Your arguments are fairly classic bigot's arguments if you think about it.

Your contention is that you have a right to use words about minorities that they consider to be hurtful slurs. Your stance is no different than that of white people who refused to stop saying 'colored people' out of a sense of tradition or claimed annoyance at being asked to change. I'm not saying you'd use that term, but I am saying your argument is absolutely identical to the arguments made by others who have clung to many other words that became unacceptable to society.
And with that I wish you a more enlightened tomorrow.

[bettyellen]

62. THIS 1,000,000!! thank you.

Hope you don't mind I cut and pasted it to someone who needed to hear this.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

32. who are you to tell me what i can post about while at the same time whining

about your right to calling manning any gender you like?

[Summer Hathaway]

52. Really! The nerve!

Imagine someone telling someone else what they can post - right down to what pronouns they're allowed to use!!!

Who would DO such a thing?!?

[bettyellen]

61. Your stance is no different than that of white people who refused to stop saying 'colored people'

.... out of a sense of tradition or claimed annoyance at being asked to change. I'm not saying you'd use that term, but I am saying your argument is absolutely identical to the arguments made by others who have clung to many other words that became unacceptable to society.


copied from a brilliant DUer upthread- but this applies to you as well. The nerve, indeed. Your stripes are showing.

[Summer Hathaway]

63. And what is 'my stance' on the topic?

Last edited Sun Aug 25, 2013, 05:35 PM - Edit history (1)

"I am saying your argument is absolutely identical ..."

What 'argument' was that?

My post didn't put forward any argument or stance. It merely commented on a certain poster's hypocrisy in telling people they shouldn't dictate what others post, when the poster in question does so on a regular basis.

[CreekDog]

67. sounds like you deserve an apology

or an apologist.

[bettyellen]

70. you're the one bristling at using non- offensive language. Got "PC police" issues, LOL?

Not shocked to see that.

[CreekDog]

66. Listen Mister, we both can agree that it's offensive to be called a gender you aren't

just like if you were called a Canadian when you consider yourself an American.

[freeplessinseattle]

44. Why does a current trending topic bother you so much?

It is interesting that other popular topics of the moment don't get as much as backlash and pleas to stop posting.

Did it bother you when the Trayvon Martin case was getting a lot of threads, for instance, with various people expressing themselves? Or the Sandy Hook tragedy (or any gun related tragedy).

Gun related topical stories, for instance, often generate numerous threads by different people that can say essentially the same thing, but from their own perspective and individual desire to express. Yet I don't think I've seen anyone request, much less demand, that certain topics be dropped, since there are just too many darn threads about the same thing.

The only time I've seen that happen is when there's some fluff like topic, about some celebrity or something, and a plea to take it to the lounge. This particular issue concerns our fellow DUers, who have every right to express themselves and help to enlighten others. Isn't that what the heart of DU is all about?

[kestrel91316]

10. It smacks of a Two Minutes' Hate when anger is directed against

friends along with foes.

[eggplant]

11. Because she wants to be referred to as "she".

Is that so fucking difficult for you? Lots of people legally change their name. Do you insist on calling them only by the name on their birth certificate?

Why are you so concerned about the contents of her pants? Do you honestly expect that she would want to be naked around you?

As to why people are up in arms, it's for the same reason we don't just keep quiet when someone says "nigger". Referring to a transgender person by anything other than the pronoun they prefer is offensive.

[tom_kelly]

13. Wow. You're out of control.

[nomorenomore08]

16. And why do you seemingly care so much about this? Enough to comment anyway.

By your own logic you probably shouldn't.

[Synthesize]

21. Much of it is Manning specific I believe...

In your own personal life you are more likely to acquiesce to the requests/demands of someone you like vs someone you don't.

Many dislike Manning on principle and any chance to stick it to him...

[oberliner]

35. Do you insist on calling them only by the name on their birth certificate?

Ask Chad Ocho Cinco or The Artist Formerly Known as Prince.

[MADem]

53. Chad Johnson, you mean?

He changed that name back! http://sports.yahoo.com/blogs/nfl-shutdown-corner/ochocinco-no-more-chad-johnson-changes-name-back-182832401--nfl.html

And Prince Rogers Nelson, AKA Prince, AKA The Artist Formerly Known as Prince, AKA The Artist, is back to using the "Prince" label once more: http://www.ask.com/wiki/Prince_(musician)

As for Manning, you can call her Chelsea in conversation, but if you're sending a letter, you need to address it to Bradley, otherwise it will be returned to sender.

http://www.theguardian.com/world/2013/aug/22/bradley-manning-woman-chelsea-gender-reassignment

"I also request that, starting today, you refer to me by my new name and use the feminine pronoun (except in official mail to the confinement facility)," Manning's statement read. "I look forward to receiving letters from supporters and having the opportunity to write back."

[Jamastiene]

64. +1000000

[NuclearDem]

14. No, she's female.

[liberal_at_heart]

17. Oh, you are so going on ignore.

[Jamastiene]

65. +1

[Posteritatis]

33. Translation: "I don't care about this, therefore nobody should." (nt)

[JackBeck]

34. Those of us that believe in justice and social equality are able to multi-task. n/t

[Hissyspit]

37. Because of ignorance like yours.

[NealK]

68. +1

[TDale313]

38. It is disrespectful. It's hurtful.

When someone goes out of their way to reject a trans person's preferred pronoun or reserve the right to relabel them out of spite, it feels like a slur. People are taking this personally. And this has little to do with Chelsea Manning. The thing with slurs? They are targeted at whole groups, not just the individual. People are telling you this is hurtful- not to Chelsea Manning, but to them or their loved ones or the LGTB community. Is it that important to you that you'd need to persist?

[Iggo]

40. Bullshit. I changed.

[Skittles]

42. you should go to the freak republic

that website appreciates folk like you

[tblue37]

46. Would you also call Muhammed Ali Cassius Clay, since he is not a

close personal friend of yours?

[Zorra]

54. Progressives care about people, justice, and equality. Something that distinguishes us from

conservatives.

It's just who we are, and what we do.

If we didn't do these things, you would not have any rights whatsoever, and would be groveling at the feet of a king.

[MadrasT]

55. Because people like you

insist on making posts like this

This is not "disagreement" - as long as you insist on using "him" and "he" (after someone explains Chelsea prefers "her" and "she&quot you are FLAT OUT WRONG and engaging in HATEFUL BIGOTRY

[tom_kelly]

58. I'm sorry

I apologize to everyone for my ignorance and insensitivity. Its become clear to me that I need to do some inward work on myself. I'm sorry.

[Gravitycollapse]

19. Most psychologist and therapists I know lean conservative.

For instance, my personal therapist refused to face the fact that I am bisexual and would often enquire about any possible women I'm dating all the while ignoring the possibility that I might be dating a man.

[Zorra]

56. Conservative leaning therapists? Kind of frightening, isn't it? Yikes! nt

[liberal_at_heart]

20. I get really sick of the bathroom argument too.

[JackBeck]

43. You're not alone.

Most cisgender folks' heads would explode if they took a minute to think that at some point in their lives, they probably shared a bathroom with someone who was trans.

[tblue37]

47. Who would be stupid enough to insist that this young woman must use the men's restroom--

simply because she was born male, though she always knew she was female?

(Jenna Talackova was Miss Canada in the Miss Universe contest.)

[LostOne4Ever]

22. Having a bachelors in biology

I find the XY chromosome argument particularly idiotic.

They are trying to make an argument about something they don't even understand. They don't get genotype or phenotype. They don't understand all the various cases where people don't fall neatly into the male or female label.

They want everything in the world falls neatly into defined categories so they don't have to think, and assume it works that way and try to use biology as an argument. When IF THEY DID THE SLIGHTEST BIT OF RESEARCH they would see that is not how it works.

Not by a long shot.

[Humanist_Activist]

23. I don't even have a bachelors in biology, just read medical books...

for fun growing up, I had a weird childhood, and I find it to be one of the most idiotic arguments.

[snot]

29. Question about how to handle a situation.

Yesterday, a person helped me in store. The person was wearing the same unisex uniform as the other clerks, and to me looked basically female but styled in a rather male way, with a very short haircut, no make-up, and breasts seemingly de-emphasized; the main reason I assumed s/he was physically female was the total lack of beard. I really wasn't thinking about the person's gender, but when I spoke to another person waiting in line to let him know that a clerk was available, I found myself saying "She's open."

After all the discussion on DU lately, I immediately worried about which pronoun I should have used; but the person's appearance seemed genuinely ambiguous to me. S/he was also wearing small, stud earrings – also ambiguous these days.

In short, it seems like whichever way I go – "he" or "she" – I could be offending someone.

I don't suppose there's any reliable, general guidance about what to do in these situations, but advice is welcome.

[JackBeck]

31. When a clerk helps me in a store, I tend to ask them what their name is so I can tell someone

if I received good service.

There are many gender queer people who don't ascribe to the gender binary of male or female. Asking someone's name is a good start.

[La Lioness Priyanka]

36. when in doubt i use they/them or not use gender at all

number has no social significance whereas gender does. so in that particular case i would have said "they're open" "that line is open"

[snot]

59. Thanks, everyone!

I think in this particular situation, this would have been the best, most practicable solution.

[MineralMan]

41. Just say, "That lane is open." while pointing in that direction.

Problem solved.

[Deep13]

30. The "its" one seems especially obnoxious to me.

We may not have enough human pronouns to describe every situation, but suggesting that TG people are non-human is factually wrong and cruel.

The "God made..." thing is religious bigotry. How do you know I share your religious views?

[mick063]

45. I recently worked with the first transgender that I was aware of.

A woman that had me very fooled for about a week. Perhaps a bad way to phrase it, but regardless, I was completely unaware. I had to be "told" about it.

My first day working with her, she thanked me profusely for "talking with her". I didn't quite get the point at the time. I only worked with her for about 2 months, but in that time, I saw a few emotional moments of unexplained sadness. I didn't delve into why, but I did feel empathy.

Otherwise, she was a good ambassador for her circumstance. Very professional. Charming, with sense of humor as well.

If for not being told by another coworker, I would have never suspected. Almost all of the people in my work group openly accepted her. Almost. Those that didn't were privately concerned that communication must be guarded to ward attention from human resources. They couldn't "be themselves".

[mythology]

48. If it makes you feel any better

I worked with a guy who was significantly visually impaired and he was so well adapted that I didn't realize until I sat at his computer and realized it was set up with accessibility software. I felt a little foolish at first until I realized that it meant he was able to do all of the things he needed to do. I was even more impressed when I heard the unemployment rate for blind or visually impaired people is in the 50 to 60% range.

Obviously being blind or visually impaired isn't the same as being transgendered, but neither one is easy and there's no reason for anybody to go out of their way to be an ass. Referring to somebody else as an it, yeah you're just showing everybody you suck as a human being.

I suffer from depression, don't like myself and have a body that is unwilling to do the things I ask of it physically and I can't even imagine how hard it must be to feel like you're in the wrong body especially in a society that is (at best) only still learning to understand/accept transgendered people.

[Zorra]

60. I suspect that every transgender has been a victim of open insult and hate.

Particularly transgender women who are in transition, who don't "pass", and/or don't care if they "pass". They have a target on their backs, and most conservatives consider them fair game. Add the general misogyny of conservatives to this mix as well.

She is also hyper-aware that some people she works with can't "be themselves", and more than likely knows exactly who those people are. When people are different, and are exposed to constant irrational threat from other people, they often develop extreme sensitivity to their surroundings, and to the physical mannerisms, such as body language, and speech/tone of voice, of the people around them.

This may explain some, or all, of the sadness you perceived.

Always being consider as something "other", and being exposed to chronic direct or indirect senseless mockery or hatred, would have a tendency to make any rational person sad at times, with regard to the state of consciousness of far too many of their fellow human beings.

[DevonRex]

49. Jack Beck, we need you here.

Please don't leave us. I know you're active and get real things done. It's wonderful. And if you just don't have the time for DU I understand. But you make a real difference here. If nothing else you should know that.

[Granny M]

50. ^^^ this ^^^

I agree - please don''t leave, Jack Beck.

Your post was truthful and intelligent. I agreed completely with what you said. I have one trans friend and, believe me, she did not choose this. It's the biological reality for her. I only wish she didn't face so much prejudice from ignorant people.

I support Chelsea Manning. She has suffered too much crap already, and has an unnecessarily hard road ahead of her.

[Turbineguy]

51. It seems to me that instead of castigating people

for their ignorance, this could be a teachable moment. Just because somebody reads and posts on DU does not automatically make them an expert on this subject. And yet it is a very reachable audience.

[stevenleser]

57. K&R&Please don't leave!

[sarcasmo]

69. Kick!