Oh shit! It's not just Kerry, Biden's a liar too! And Obama's a war-monger! And ...

[11 Bravo]

Harry Reid is a spineless douchebag! And Hillary is a corporate shill! And Democrats are JUST LIKE FUCKING REPUBLICANS!
Thank God for DU! If it wasn't for the Democraticunderground, I wouldn't EVEN know that Democrats FUCKING SUCK! I've spent my entire damned adult life supporting a party that is the worst thing that ever happened to this country! Get with the program, Skinner! Get "Democratic" out of the name of this site. Those stinking Democrats are FUCKING AWFUL!

[dionysus]

1. you noticed the disgruntled former dems and third party types took over as well, eh?

[Agnosticsherbet]

80. Current Dem, and I'm only gruntle challanged.

Sometimes it seems there is not a lot of critical thinking happening, but I am gruntle challenged.

[Nuclear Unicorn]

2. Obama is not a warmonger or a liar but that doesn't diminish the horror of this mistake.

[winter is coming]

4. +1. n/t

[Harmony Blue]

13. +1 I want the talk to be about the ACA

the next few months and the positives of it.

[Mojorabbit]

70. The NSA statement was not true.

I am an old time Dem and am appalled at the direction the party has taken. No place else to go but I don't have to like it. I am proud to be a liberal Dem.

[summer-hazz]

79. and it seems we

are so few ... WTF happened?

[Scuba]

112. +1

[dawg]

75. Our side aren't warmongers, they just ...

happen to be mongering war at the moment.

Of course, I'm not philosophically opposed to airstrikes; I just think they are likely to do more harm than good under current conditions.

[Liberal Veteran]

3. Yeah, but they are "real" Democrats.

[quinnox]

5. Oh, boy

[Rosco T.]

6. Exactly the point I was trying to make in another post...

.. but it got hated down.

[leftstreet]

7. You go to war with the Democrats you have

Technically it should be DLCUnderground

[VanillaRhapsody]

10. No ....technically some just want to turn it into AnarchistUnderground!

[leftstreet]

11. I think that word does not mean what you think it means

The opposite of corporate-loving, privatizing politicians who gleefully strip the commons of wealth and resources to give to their ruling class buddies...is not anarchism

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. I think I know exactly what it means...thank you very much!

You know there are grey areas in life right? Not everything is in your black and white world!

[Just Saying]

51. + 1

Too bad we all won't fit into labels. I'm just me!

[Brewinblue]

15. Anarchist

It's the new word they have been given to smear liberals. They have no clue what it means, just as they have no idea what libertarian means.

[VanillaRhapsody]

18. I know what all three mean thank you very much.

Okay then I'll bite....its not LibertarianUnderground or even LiberalUnderground....it's DEMOCRATICUnderground...

wether you like that or not!

[zeemike]

58. And what does the Underground part mean to you?

Or does it mean nothing at all to you ?
Underground goes way back, to like the French resistance...they went underground because it was not safe to be above ground and be true to their Frenchness.
Now think about that in terms of the democratic party.

[VanillaRhapsody]

62. And this site didn't begin under a Democratic President did it?

Thats what the underground part was about....DEMOCRATS underground...not Libertarian, or Anarchist or even necessarily Liberal...just Democratic. It promotes Democrats...would I like them to move more left yes....but it still doesn't make this anything else. I happen to have come across it when where I lived being democrat made you a social pariah...yes it was a very red state in the deep south.

[zeemike]

69. Well just like the French not all Democrats went underground.

and the ones that did not stayed up and voted for the wars and the tax cuts and the striping of the wealth of this nation...just like some of the French they sold out to power.

Now what you suggest sounds a lot like saying that we should sell our underground out to the above ground democrats and follow them.
Which may make sense if you are only interested in the party winning.

[VanillaRhapsody]

103. No False analogy....

because of WHEN this site was founded...Epic fail.

[Dawgs]

122. Just stop, please.

You're embarrassing yourself.

[leftstreet]

20. Yep. And 'communist' is so yesterday!

'Anarchist' just seems so window-smashingly bad

[VanillaRhapsody]

56. compared to being called "statist"?

I kinda think the govt should be involved in the welfare and economic growth of a nation...but that makes me a statist I guess...unfortunately...the opposite of statist is anarchist.

[HoneychildMooseMoss]

115. So how, pray tell, does attacking a small country on the other side of the world

help the "welfare and economic growth" of this nation?

[arely staircase]

136. "libertarian" means you believe in the rights of individuals

to refuse to serve to black people in restaurants.

[Brewinblue]

138. Well, that is one definition, I guess?

Whatthefuckever!

[arely staircase]

141. It is Rand Paul's

he believes that individual freedom means you can refuse to serve the n******.

[Brewinblue]

142. I think that's the official Tea Party slogan

Freedom means you can refuse to serve the n******s.

[arely staircase]

143. maybe not official, but operative. nt

[karynnj]

95. I've seen threads that would fit in that space

Something is strange when in addition to disagreeing on Syria (where there are no good choices), but there are people calling Obama a conservative and center right, and every administration person I can think of is attacked and their motives questions - but Chelsea Manning and Ed Snowden are heroes and did absolutely nothing wrong. (This goes beyond valuing their whistleblowing to accepting ANYTHING they say -- even praising Russia as a bastion of human rights. )

On DU2, there were times that GD got this way -- but one could always stay in GD-P. The stated reasons for the groups were often ignored and two very different groups lived in each. I have really wished this divide existed on DU3.

[DevonRex]

99. Sure as hell not with the ones who just "play" Dems on DU.

The ones who think the U.S. is all that is bad in this world. Those "Dems" never were on the side of the U.S. to begin with.

[G_j]

131. You mean the "hate America first" crowd ?

No wait, that's what Rush Limbaugh calls us...never mind ..

[Summer Hathaway]

8. I often wonder

how many people these days come to DU for the first time, read the Home Page and the posts, and assume that the word "Democratic" in the website's name is meant to be satirical.

[JustAnotherGen]

52. +1

[cali]

9. No, they just boxed themselves in with their red line rhetoric

[AtheistCrusader]

27. Rookie mistake.

Knew it the second they used the phrase. Oh well, what's done is done.

Now, to extract ourselves from this mess...

[Abukhatar]

59. damned if he dont

- could hear it now. If Obama did not draw a line on chemical weapons back then, then the screams would be that he gave tacit approval to Assad....

And NO this is not the same as Shrub, here we have recent events and actual victims....not the word of a fast food clerk..

[emsimon33]

130. So unbox and wait for the UN inspectors to do their job

[leveymg]

14. You do realize that you are both wrong and outnumbered 10-1 or 20-1 on this issue here?

You are also entitled to leave if you don't like prevailing opinion.

[babylonsister]

17. Are you kidding me?

Where did you leave your sense of humor?

Edit to add: this is for everyone. Everyone needs to lighten up once in awhile.

[politicasista]

37. +1

Life is short not to have humor in your life.

[Supersedeas]

129. Yea come on people...war is all about lightness and humor

Snark it up now...let's go

[11 Bravo]

21. Nah, I've been here for 12 years (as a contributing member), and prevailing opinions ...

tend to ebb and flow. I'll ride it out if that's OK with you ... or even if it's not.

[seabeyond]

30. or many of us are just tired of the constant battle and so.... nt

[Skittles]

32. SCHEDULING 11 BRAVO FOR ASS KICKING

FOR ONLY 15,800 POSTS IN 12 YEARS

[Rex]

64. And all of 300 something on DU3.

YAWN. More outrage at nothing and bashing DU, cuz that is what the dude does. So borrrrinnnngggg...too boring for an asskicking imo.

[Skittles]

86. well OK I will move him to the back of the line

[Rex]

102. Good idea

there are much more worthy of a Skittles ASS KICKING. He reminds me of pretzil warrior or whatever it is.

[Puglover]

116. Eggzacaly!

Same with the 1st responder to this tired meme. Since the day I logged on to DU in 2003 it's been the same hyperbolic schtick.

"DU sucks and you all suck because you don't think just like MEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE!"

[Rex]

123. Why the let META threads that bash DU and DUers stand I will never know.

It is very tiresome I agree completely.

[treestar]

71. That was rather bullying in tone

[babylonsister]

16. Hahaha!

Well done!

[freshwest]

93. He has a gift! K & R.

[The Magistrate]

19. Hear Hear, Sir!

"This, too, shall pass."

[JoePhilly]

22. That post is going on your

Permanent record!!

And your name on the list of authoritarian democratic evil doers.

[bvar22]

23. Now, now. Thats a little over the top.

I disagree with your last claim, where you said,
"Those stinking Democrats are FUCKING AWFUL!"

No, not all the Democrats are "FUCKING AWFUL",
just those who push warmed over Republican Policy,
or try to get us involved in MORE elective WARS
while we can't seem to find the money for Head Start and Meals on Wheels.

See?
THOSE "Democrats" are awful,
and I'm not ashamed to point that out,
but the rest are OK in my book.

I've been a loyal DEMOCRAT for over 46 years,
and have learned that I have to take some BAD with the GOOD,
but you NEVER keep quiet about the BAD.
A Good Democrat raises HELL when the Party steps out of line.
How else will we EVER see improvement?

Sheesh.

[Autumn]

29. When you are more concerned about what is said about the party than

what our elected officials are saying and doing about issues that are so serious, that shows some serious cosmic disconnect.

[obxhead]

76. Exactly!

[Puglover]

117. Yup.

I hear so much whoosh going on in GD.

It's like a 1000 posts from the same 20 posters that can be summed up with this:

[riderinthestorm]

89. [phone]. nt

[Mojorabbit]

98. Well said! nt

[bigwillq]

24. Yup, they pretty much are.

edit: "Those stinking Democrats are F@CKING AWFUL!"

The whole bunch of them.

Kerry. Biden. Obama.

[Autumn]

25. Oh my God!!! Lets all leave.

[sulphurdunn]

26. "By their works

you shall know them." Matthew 7:16

[Bluenorthwest]

31. Matthew 26:52

Put up again thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword.

[sulphurdunn]

33. Amen

[Bluenorthwest]

43. Jesus was the Prince of Purist Peace....

He'd be hated on DU.

[sulphurdunn]

50. I'm on DU and I don't hate him.

In fact, while I've heard many valid rants against organized Christianity and religion in general on DU, I've heard very few against the social gospel preached by Jesus.

[DontTreadOnMe]

126. Tax the Churches

Send the IRS after Jesus

[sulphurdunn]

133. Jesus would have had no objection

to paying taxes. He is quoted as saying in regard to paying them: "Render unto Caesar the things that are Caesars and unto God the things that are God." There' would be no need to sent the IRS after him even if you could. The churches of his day had him crucified for saying things like that twenty centuries ago.

[DontTreadOnMe]

134. I am not worried about Jesus

I am worried about his followers

[sulphurdunn]

135. I understand, but

that's like saying Stalin was a follower of Marx. Real communists never controled the Communist Party anymore than real Christians control the Church

[Junkdrawer]

28. Anyone else remember the Biden Iraq WMD hearings?

Not such a good track record....

[mick063]

34. I'm less bothered about killing Assad than I am about TPP

or chained CPI, or "too big to prosecute", or Larry Summers, or blanket surveillance, or uninhabitable deserts, or Nestle owned water works.


Kill the fucker already and get back to the important stuff.

This really is the tail wagging the dog.

No one is looking, turn that burner up a notch on the pot full of frogs.

All you have to do is present the ultimate shiny object, war, and no one will notice.

[disidoro01]

38. We are not

going to kill Assad, we are going to kill upwards of thousands of civilians a la Iraq and Afghanistan.
perhaps you mean to title your post " I'm less bothered by killing children than I am about TPP"?

[mick063]

45. Last I looked

There was already a big pile of dead children in Syria.

Just pretend Assad is Al Qaeda #2. I'm sure we can do it.


Do you believe Syrian children are higher in the pecking order then Yemen children?

It is our policy to kill children now. Didn't you get the memo?

[disidoro01]

47. sure we can

We didn't drop the bombs or fire the missiles on those kids. You are advocating that we do it and I am against intervention based on hearsay. Remember Yellow Cake? We had pictures and reports, reports I say.

[mick063]

53. I'm pissed that this stupid Syrian shit has stopped all momentum against the surveillance state.

Regardless of what we do, a whole bunch of Syrians are going to die. Just throw a bunker buster on Assad already and get back to the shit that will directly affect my grandchildren.

Understand that through the guise of terrorism, we are in perpetual war for decades, perhaps centuries. The money will flow to the MIC forever. No peace dividend, ever. The anti war chants are ludicrous. We will always be at war. Forever and ever. No exit strategy, ever. The power brokers want it this way.

Just kill the bastard already and get back to the shit within our borders, that is directly destroying our nation.

[Upton]

35. Biden also claims pot is a gateway drug..

why should I believe anything he says?

VP Joe Biden tells ABC, "There's a difference between sending (someone) to jail for a few ounces and legalizing it. The punishment should fit the crime. But I think legalization is a mistake. I still believe it's a gateway drug. I've spent a lot of my life as chairman of the Judiciary Committee dealing with this. I think it would be a mistake to legalize."

http://www.ontheissues.org/2012/Joe_Biden_Drugs.htm

[G_j]

132. and sponsored the 'Rave Act'. nt

[iandhr]

36. If you actually think that there is

no difference between the parties you are a brain dead moron.

Some people here are starting to sound like left wing version of freepers.

[babylonsister]

41. SNAP!!

You got it. What happened to my DU, where people with differing opinions at least attempted to be civil? Not so much anymore. Just outrage. Ugh.

[MFrohike]

60. When was this?

I started reading DU in 2005 and internet slapfights and poorly executed trolling have existed since at least that time. There was plenty of outrage, over issues ranging from people mocking the Catholic Church after JP2 died, the war in Iraq, the attempt privatization of Social Security, the election count in Ohio, the surveillance state, and a host of other issues that you could almost transplant whole from then to now unchanged. People attacked each other for being too pure or being too unrealistic on how to win elections. The Blue Dogs were help up to be the model of how to win in the south and were reviled for being enablers of the right (funny, that is one issue that actually got decided). Al Gore was lionized, Nader demonized, Clinton mostly cheered, Hillary judged, Obama noticed, etc. Some of that has changed, but honestly, the issues are more or less the same and so is the tone. There are still internet warriors claiming to know everything about electoral politics, just as there are people dedicated to attacking the status quo.

Nothing has changed. DU is more or less the same and will likely remain the same for as long as it stays online.

[babylonsister]

65. The word you should be concentrating on is civility.

And I'm talking about with each other, on DU.

People are meaner now.

[MFrohike]

67. Not really

That's what I meant when I said the tone hasn't changed. People accused each other of being closet Republicans, paid plants, authoritarians, witless idealists, and all the rest. It may be a bit quicker to the punch now, but the difference can be measured in one or two less posts now to call someone a name. I've quit paying attention to DU twice for a year or two at a time and came back to find it pretty much the same.

I think your perception of it has changed. There's plenty of opportunity to have a civil discussion, just as in the past. Roll your eyes at the smug and the hysterical and it's really no big deal.

[disidoro01]

42. There is less difference

than any time in my life and if you don't believe that, you are willfully ignorant.

[quakerboy]

101. A small, but loud minority here are beginning to sound like freepers

No qualifiers, just like freepers. Seems they may have snuck in from the right and are really twisting this place up.

[Hekate]

106. It's really, really disturbing.

[colbertforpresident]

39. Come on people

We need to stay lockstep with the party no matter what they do. Blind loyalty please.

[babylonsister]

44. That would be rethugs. Look up 'big tent'. nt

[Pisces]

40. Perfect post about the state of DU lately!!

[politicasista]

57. +1 n/t

[KittyWampus]

46. Anyone remember Haitian Man Tits and Seventhson?

[Rowdyboy]

91. I don't know that I've ever despised anyone as much as Seventhson....

either on-line or in person. I was thrilled when he "unveiled" himself. What a POS.

[WilliamPitt]

48. So you're for this mess?

[blm]

55. No one is really FOR it, Will. But those claiming that 8yrs PREVENTING war

in Syria by actively pursuing a relationship with Assad (that be Kerry) is equal to cooking the intel books to rush an invasion of Iraq, is just completely bogus.


Kerry took 7years of hits from the RW because he was actively interfering with the hawks' war plan for Syria. Now, he's taking hits from the left because he knows Assad has been losing it steadily since the Arab Spring. There isn't ANY ONE who tried harder to prevent this. Too bad people weren't paying attention to this back in 2005 when the push for war began.

http://www.weeklystandard.com/blogs/kerry-frequent-visitor-syrian-dictator-bashar-al-assad_690885.html

[YvonneCa]

73. Exactly. Thanks, blm, for saying...

...so.

[karynnj]

96. You are wonderful as always - thanks for fighting this

[Hekate]

105. Thanks blm.

The attacks on Kerry are just making me sick.

[JoePhilly]

121. Great post. If anyone has credibility here, it would be Kerry.

[11 Bravo]

119. Hell no!

I am vehemently opposed to getting caught up in Syria's civil war, Will. But I also object to seeing John Kerry called a liar. I was merely trying to make a (slightly sardonic) point about how fond DU has become of eating our own.
(This, of course, makes me an authoritarian, worshiping, blind-follower, <insert DU pejorative du jour here>.)

[WilliamPitt]

125. (((hug)))

[11 Bravo]

140. Right back at you, big guy!

[Spitfire of ATJ]

49. You and Manny need to get together some time.

[brooklynite]

54. Can someone tell me who I am?

Am I an Obama Lackey or an Obama Apologist?

[DeSwiss]

61. ....

[OnyxCollie]

63. Quick! Bury your head in the sand and all will be better.

You'll be safe from that which upsets you.

[forestpath]

66. +1

[jessie04]

68. Great post

[kardonb]

72. awful

is that you cannot express yourself without the "F" word . Its becoming totally meaningless and more than trite .

[dem in texas]

74. Its a moral thing

There are some things that you have to look into your heart and made decisions that are not popular. Going into Afghanistan after 9-11 was the right thing to do, too bad our government then dropped the ball to go after Iraq and didn't finish the job. Going into Bosnia was the right thing to do, thousands of people were being killed and intervention put a stop to it. Standing by while genocide happened in Rwanda was the wrong thing to do. Going into Iraq. like Vietnam, was the very most wrong to do. Right now, going into Syria is the right thing to do.

We don't always get it right, but morally we should not stand by while innocent people are slaughtered. I don't think there is a group in Syria worth supporting, but hopefully there is some way to get rid of the poison gas, but we can't get involved and fight their war for them. Right now there is no good outcome of this situation, so let's just stop as much of the killing as we can.

[MADem]

77. There are days when this place feels like Crazy Libertarian Underground! nt

[freshwest]

94. Leave the Crazy off. You'll offend someone and get your post hidden. *wink*

[MADem]

100. In order for them to be offended, though, they'd have to make the leap

and declare that they believed I was talking about THEM!

[Hekate]

107. Wait for it...

[MADem]

113. Heh, heh...nt

[freshwest]

111. I agree! Glad we have that ironed out.

UR BRAIN WERKZ VRY WELL. U R GENIUS!

[MADem]

114. Awwww geez....

Now I want a cat again!!!!!!!

[Phlem]

78. ya know

there's something about faithful blind obedience, no matter what, that doesn't agree with me, sorry.



-p

[George II]

81. HOW are they "lying"?

[woo me with science]

82. Yes, the group we have right now is awful.

They are corporate predators, not Democrats in any sense of the word.

We had a bait and switch election campaign full of lies, with a candidate pretending to oppose Bush policies, but who has relentlessly continued and escalated them since coming into office.

The United States of America is now a surveillance state. The warmongering continues. Journalism is under assault. The Constitution is under assault.

We are lied to incessantly by the administration and its propagandists.

And now we see the march to war in Syria, which we all knew was coming.

This country is sick and corrupt. The two-party system at this point serves as little more than a tool to keep the people divided so that we cannot unite to resist what both sides are doing to us. It is a sham.

Yes, what is being perpetrated on this country is awful. Yes, the current administration is awful. Yes, corporate corruption of a democratic government is awful.

[David__77]

83. You know, Democrats faced this in the 60s too.

Just cause LBJ was a war criminal and the House and Senate leadership sucked balls doesn't mean they didn't do good things sometimes. You act as though we should somehow "trust" them just cause they're elected.

[stevenleser]

84. Yeah, that kind of stuff is over the top. I vehemently disagree with us going to war in Syria

but that doesnt make Obama/Biden/Kerry all those awful things if they make that mistake.

[guss]

85. The Occupy Party

Im a Moderate Democrat Liberal. I Vote Democrat Alot but I think its time to add another Party to the list to offset the Blue dogs and to piss off the Tea Baggers.
Start the Occupy Party. The Occupy Wall street Are hard core people devoted sleep ins, gassing, and jail time to get thier point across. very devoted to the Ideal of protesting against the Greed Of rich Overtaking and owning Every American Aspect of the Country. I'm sure the Rich and Powerful own the 5th Estate, the Media,(except for PBS that they try to defund) and they Control the Fed ( most of the People Running the Treasury Are From The Top Banks) And Most of the Supreme Courts that interpret the law. ( they Can't Be that ignorant to support Citizen united they must of had Someone swaying them and it wasn't clerks)
Im Sick of seeing People Who are Without who the Media and Politicians say they are lazy, the Politicians Repeat that because they got the same script, Entitlements, Bullets and automatic weapons are a good thing, Shut Down the Post offices because UPS and Fed ex has wall street Stocks. Out Source Jobs to Foreign Country's give them a tax break for doing so. It helps the greed over all . damn this Country is not Tax payer Friendly anymore Its all about Supporting Soulless Cutthroat Corporations that with a cold unfeeling robotic knife will cut this country down, to fulfill its ruthless bottom line, Money is Worth More then Life. And when Life is drained away to nothing. I think the Money will blame .... life was to ignorant to survive
Anyway I think it would be a good party..

[mick063]

88. Be very careful what you write here

Also know that there are many, many people privately longing for what you propose.

If not for a lot of personal foul language and extreme sarcasm where partial quotes could be taken out of context, I would actively pursue an elected position as a member of such a party. At a local/regional level to start.

I might take a shot anyway. I have some spare pocket change and a whole lot of determination. If anything, to force opponents to address neglected, taboo issues. Alternatively, I might do more good by working for someone else instead.

Just waiting for it to emerge.

I will probably get banned from DU for writing this.

Oh Well. I have voted almost straight Democratic ticket since 1976. I have never seen the party further from my ideology.

I am prepared to get booted now. It will happen eventually I'm sure. It will add to my narrative.

[Brewinblue]

108. Why does the Left have to leave the party?

Let the corporatists form a new party. The GOP is becoming the Tea Party for all intents and purposes, so the name Republicans may soon be available.

[sheshe2]

87. Kick and Rec!

[bowens43]

90. keep defending the fuck ups by our so called leaders....

you got what you deserve , a center right president and a gutless wonder leading the senate....good job there , keep it up

[Safetykitten]

92. Well, that's a start.

[rhett o rick]

97. I am guessing you will support our mindless killing in Syria as we did in Iraq. To you it's

justified because the president is a Democrat. How many thousands or tens of thousands of children will die for what? But you will rationalize their deaths.

Tell me why we need to kill more people? To save them like in Iraq and Afghanistan. Neocon-Democrats the new scourge.

[Cha]

104. LOL.. Bravo 11 Bravo! Ignorant Cheap Pot Shots

Rule!

[Tarheel_Dem]

109. They're all liars, doncha know?

[JackRiddler]

110. Party narcissism, pretending persecution complex...

as the US government - same old shit - prepares for yet another military aggression.

[LWolf]

118. And some people are fucking idiots. nt

[grantcart]

120. lol.

[polichick]

124. Dem leaders ARE "fucking awful" - and still the lesser of evils.

[SidDithers]

127. Nailed it...

Sid

[DontTreadOnMe]

128. Can we start a thread where we all insult each other, but then we all agree to be Democrats again :)

Here, let me remind everyone of some common ground.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

137. Back in the day -

when it was Dick Cheney, Condi Rice, Rummie, Shrub, and Wolfowitz trying to lie/scare/shame me into supporting a military strike, I fought like hell against the attempt. I took to the streets, I got myself arrested, I told everyone I could that we were being scammed. I called out the propaganda, called out the pushers of the propaganda, and called out the Democratic enablers who were too cowardly to stand for what was right because they were afraid of upcoming elections.

I will be DAMNED if I will not do the same now that were are being pushed into another military disaster just because Democrats are the ones doing it. Guess what? Sometimes Democrats suck. HARD. To see Kerry, Biden, & Obama -- people I have voted for -- out there pushing bullshit...it makes me sick to my stomach.

I will be out there today and Saturday, taking to the streets once again to try to stop another US blunder. I will call out this administration's propaganda and the Democratic enablers as I see fit. If the Dems want to stop being labeled "just like Republicans" they can start by not acting like them.

[George II]

139. I asked three days ago, no response. HOW are Kerry and Biden lying?