Bush and Cheney are STILL the most powerful people in the world today.

[blm]

This is the bottom line truth:
Because Bush and Cheney MANUFACTURED the intel used to get the war they wanted in Iraq, no other American president will be allowed to respond to any atrocity against people anywhere in the world.

Phony intel on Iraq WMD haunting U.S. claims of Syria threat

>>>
As Americans and their allies debate the wisdom of making military strikes against the government of Syrian President Bashar Assad, the phony pretext for the Iraq invasion is being dredged up by those fearful of being lured into another protracted Middle East war.

Political and international security analysts concede that the conditions prompting Obama to push for punitive strikes on Assad's forces are vastly different this time. Obama, who campaigned against his predecessor's rush to wage costly, faraway wars, has made clear his reluctance to get involved in Syria's nearly 2 1/2-year-old civil conflict, which has taken more than 100,000 lives.

Nor does Obama seek to topple Assad. Though despised by Western leaders and accused of savagery and war crimes, the Syrian autocrat would leave a dangerous power vacuum if he were ousted. That probably would lead to chaotic revenge attacks on Assad's minority Alawite community, sectarian clashes between Shiites and Sunnis, and infighting among the disparate rebel groups, the stronger of which are aligned with Al Qaeda.

This time, unlike the 130,000 coalition troops Bush had massed to invade Iraq, any U.S. strike on Syria would be limited in scope and duration, Obama insisted Friday.

"We’re not considering any open-ended commitment. We’re not considering any boots-on-the-ground approach,” Obama said after the White House released its intelligence report claiming that Assad deployed chemical weapons in Damascus suburbs on Aug. 21, killing more than 1,400, including 426 children.
>>>>

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-syria-iraq-intel-comparisons-20130830,0,1914370.story?track=rss

[Scuba]

1. Seems like total bullshit, starting with "Syria threat"....

We have enough atrocities to keep us busy here at home, and if we did interevene in Syria odds are very high that we'd only make matters worse for them and for us.

This seems like just another grasp at just another straw trying to convolute some logic that would get someone to support more war.

[raging moderate]

2. No, some of us just think that we should "attack" the problem with humanitarian aid.

We don't think that throwing more gasoline on a fire will do anything to put a fire out. A military attack will necessarily kill and destroy, and may well kill and destroy much more than intended, and probably land on even more innocent chilldren, and quite possibly only incite more violence from those who have committed the chemical warfare as well as other in many places. The effects are not precisely predictable, but there is a general probability here that is disheartening.

[bigtree]

3. I think most of the opposition comes from lessons learned about the limits of our military force

. . . rather than from an understandable instinct of skepticism toward these presidential entreaties to military attacks across sovereign borders.

Perhaps they'd be less cynical about it all if President Obama wasn't using the same type of thin thread of justification for the use of military force, that Bush employed to sell his Iraq war, in his declaring Syrian violence a threat to our national security.

[blm]

8. Bush MANUFACTURED that intel - Did Obama? Did Kerry not spend 8yrs

focusing on diplomatic relationship with Assad in hopes of avoiding the war the neocons had wanted to wage by 2005?

Had more paid attention to Syria over the last decade, they wouldn't be so quick to see it as so similar to the lead up to Iraq war.

Because of Bush's lies, NO American Democratic president will be allowed to respond to atrocities being committed or to take the steps necessary to stop an atrocity from happening. Their hands will be tied by everyone surrounding them and even themselves.

[bigtree]

15. I'm still not seeing the threat, whether it was Bush's contrived one or Obama's stretch

. . . to declare an attack in Syria as an affront to our national security in order to preserve an option for the President to unilaterally order the use of military force.

They are both bogus, slippery readings of the War Powers Act.

[blm]

16. Because people only remember Iraq and forget Kosovo.

Number of Syrian refugees tops 2 million mark with more on the way

GENEVA, September 3 (UNHCR) – The number of Syrians forced to seek shelter abroad since civil war began in March 2011 passed the 2 million mark on Tuesday with no sign of the outflow ending soon.

"The war is now well into its third year and Syria is haemorrhaging women, children and men who cross borders often with little more than the clothes on their backs," the UN refugee agency said in a statement released to mark the milestone.

"This trend is nothing less than alarming, representing a jump of almost 1.8 million people in 12 months," UNHCR said. One year ago today, the number of Syrians registered as refugees or awaiting registration stood at about 230,670 people.

UN High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres said Syria had become "a disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history." He added that "the only solace is the humanity shown by the neighbouring countries in welcoming and saving the lives of so many refugees."
>>>>
http://www.unhcr.org/522495669.html

[bigtree]

17. 'limited military strikes' isn't the response Clinton applied in Kosovo

. . .which, by the way, wasn't exactly the most attractive poster child for U.S. military intervention, imo.

To the point, there's nothing in this resolution that looks like it will do anything substantial to alleviate the "disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history."

In fact, many reports from relief agencies are predicting that U.S. military strikes into Syria will exacerbate these displacements and humanitarian concerns.

Maybe folks can see that right off.

[blm]

18. Not trying to make it a poster child, but, the comparisons are

more apt.

[blazeKing]

4. It is...because Kerry went along with all the bullshit on Iraq and voted for war

He said he wouldn't make the mistake again, and here he goes again. Can't help himself. Loves war.

[blm]

9. That's an inaccurate statement.

Basically, you're saying that you are of the mind that Obama manufactured the intel and Kerry is pushing Obama's lie since he doesn't believe in pursuing diplomatic solutions in Syria because he wants war.

[Eleanors38]

5. True, but for more prosaic reason: No meaningful opposition. nt

[Octafish]

6. The powers for whom they front...

...the owners of the military-industrial-intelligence-Wall-Street-Washington-Mafia alliance are the ones calling the shots. I've got no proof, just a lot of evidence, starting with all the wars for profit since November 22, 1963 and how the rich have gotten richer and the rest have gotten poorer on account of it.

As for our Secretary of State, for whom we both think the world, they've gotten into his head, blm. And what they've put in there isn't just information.

[blm]

11. I completely disagree that THIS atrocity is manufactured, Octafish.

I have paid attention to Syria closely since late 90s and with renewed focus in 2003 and again in 2005, and have watched, sadly, Assad's mental decline since Arab Spring. I had hoped he'd pull it together enough to bring Syria THROUGH and rely on help from Kerry to pull it off.

Kerry has been attacked for coddling Assad throughout the last 8years.....when Assad's behavior became increasingly antagonistic and brutal to his own people, Kerry could no longer reason with him.

He tried. No one tried harder. There is nothing even remotely similar in Syria to the actions that Bush took.

But....who has actually paid attention? Few. Certainly none of the loudmouths claiming no difference.

Number of Syrian refugees tops 2 million mark with more on the way

GENEVA, September 3 (UNHCR) – The number of Syrians forced to seek shelter abroad since civil war began in March 2011 passed the 2 million mark on Tuesday with no sign of the outflow ending soon.

"The war is now well into its third year and Syria is haemorrhaging women, children and men who cross borders often with little more than the clothes on their backs," the UN refugee agency said in a statement released to mark the milestone.

"This trend is nothing less than alarming, representing a jump of almost 1.8 million people in 12 months," UNHCR said. One year ago today, the number of Syrians registered as refugees or awaiting registration stood at about 230,670 people.

UN High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres said Syria had become "a disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history." He added that "the only solace is the humanity shown by the neighbouring countries in welcoming and saving the lives of so many refugees."
>>>

http://www.unhcr.org/522495669.html

Context is EVERYTHING, my beloved, Octafish.

[Blue Owl]

7. K&R

What a shame these fraudsters are the ones "setting the tone" for our foreign policy.

[blm]

12. Corpmedia is framing the debate and

taking constant potshots at Obama for being 'weak'.....because everyone knows by now that a Republican president or a real Dem hawk would have gone after Assad years ago. Right?

The most prevalent narrative about Syria on all the networks has been a laundry list of all Obama's perceived mistakes and weaknesses. It's like they're using the opportunity to replace his leadership narrative from 'steady calm that kept us out of unnecessary war, while eliminating BinLaden and Qaddafi' to 'indecisive and weak' and even 'deceptive' just like Bush.

The corpmedia is doing a number on both sides of the debate.

[Precisely]

10. Any other way for Obama to "send a message?

[Puzzledtraveller]

13. What does that make Obama?

[blm]

14. It makes him a president unable to respond to REAL atrocities

around the world. Just like every other future Democratic president. Bush's MANUFACTURING of intel changed everything.

Pity the people of the world which has no leader able to speak to their suffering.

Thank Bush and his lies.

Number of Syrian refugees tops 2 million mark with more on the way

GENEVA, September 3 (UNHCR) – The number of Syrians forced to seek shelter abroad since civil war began in March 2011 passed the 2 million mark on Tuesday with no sign of the outflow ending soon.

"The war is now well into its third year and Syria is haemorrhaging women, children and men who cross borders often with little more than the clothes on their backs," the UN refugee agency said in a statement released to mark the milestone.

"This trend is nothing less than alarming, representing a jump of almost 1.8 million people in 12 months," UNHCR said. One year ago today, the number of Syrians registered as refugees or awaiting registration stood at about 230,670 people.

UN High Commissioner for Refugees António Guterres said Syria had become "a disgraceful humanitarian calamity with suffering and displacement unparalleled in recent history." He added that "the only solace is the humanity shown by the neighbouring countries in welcoming and saving the lives of so many refugees."

- more -

http://www.unhcr.org/522495669.html

[Hydra]

19. I'm going to try and say this politely

The Obama Admin, if they had any evidence, could make a case for this. the fact that they are doing it in Bushco fashion says louder than words that they do not.

Bush and Cheney showed us how shaky US policy works when we go to war. For that, they should get some sort of medal. Also, there's no enthusiasm to spend more money on war. We've been in a Recession/Depression since 2006. Social programs are getting gutted. Infrastructure is embarrassing. We never got our green revolution...and we're supposed to spend MORE money on Syrian pipelines??

President Obama put it clearly during his candidacy- this is the wrong direction, and the same old tired ideas. Shipping "democracy" bombs isn't exciting us.

[blm]

20. I will politely respond that many here are operating with the false notion

that intel on Syria has been manufactured, and that Obama and Kerry are no different than Bush.

However, few have bothered to pay attention to what has been going on in Syria for many years, and have been completely unaware that Obama and Kerry, especially Kerry, have worked to avoid use of force in Syria for at least 8 years by actively pursuing diplomatic solutions that relied on Assad keeping his sh!t together past the Arab Spring.

Please show where Bush-Cheney pursued diplomatic alternatives in Iraq for 8 days, let alone the 8 years of Kerry pursuing diplomatic solutions WITH Assad in Syria.