The UN is having samples from Syria tested. France and Germany presented evidence Assad did it.

[ProSense]

France releases new, 'undeniable' evidence against Syria

<...>

It accused the Syrian government of using "extremely lethal" chemical weapons -- including those containing the deadly nerve agent sarin -- on several occasions to sow "terror" among civilian populations.

"These proven attacks have shown that the forces of Bashar Assad's regime adapt their tactics and the munitions in their stocks with the aim of causing terror within the civilian population," the French report said.

"The past events and the simultaneous and massive use of chemical weapons on the night of 21 August 2013 in the eastern suburb of Damascus thus confirm that the Syrian regime has deliberately crossed a line. Our services have information, from a national source, leading us to believe that other actions of this nature could still be carried out."

The attack on was a "massive and coordinated use of chemical agents against the civilian population," it alleged, adding that evidence appeared to confirm an estimated 1,500 deaths.

- more -

http://www.latimes.com/world/worldnow/la-fg-wn-france-evidence-syria-20130902,0,1163653.story

Gas Attack: Germany Offers Clue in Search for Truth in Syria

By Matthias Gebauer

German intelligence agrees with other Western agencies that the Assad regime was behind the Aug. 21 poison gas attack in Syria. One important clue was provided by a telephone conversation intercepted by German agents.

Germany has said in no uncertain terms that it will not participate in a strike on Syria without the backing of the United Nations Security Council. But the country's foreign intelligence agency, the Bundesnachrichtendienst (BND), agrees with the US position which holds Syrian President Bashar Assad responsible for the poison gas attacks near Damascus on Aug. 21. In a secret briefing to select lawmakers on Monday, BND head Gerhard Schindler said that while there is still no incontestable proof, analysis of the evidence at hand has led his intelligence service to believe that Assad's regime is to blame.

In the briefing, Schindler said that only the Assad regime is in possession of binary chemical weapons such as sarin. The BND believes that regime experts would be the only ones capable of manufacturing such weapons and deploying them with small missiles. The BND believes that such weapons had been used several times prior to the attack on Aug. 21, which is believed to have killed more than 1,400 people. Schindler said in the earlier attacks, however, the poison gas mixture was diluted, explaining the much lower death tolls in those assaults.

During his 30-minute presentation, Schindler offered up scenarios to explain why the Assad regime resorted to chemical weapons use, including, he said, the possibility that Assad sees himself involved in a crucial battle for Damascus. The city is besieged by rebel groups, with particular pressure coming from the east. Schindler believes it is possible that the regime ordered the use of poison gas as a way of intimidating the rebels. It could also be the case that errors were made in mixing the gas and it was much more potent than anticipated, he said.

<...>

Schindler also presented an additional clue, one that has not thus far been made public. He said that the BND listened in on a conversation between a high-ranking member of the Lebanese militia Hezbollah, which supports Assad and provides his regime with military assistance, and the Iranian Embassy. The Hezbollah functionary, Schindler reported, seems to have admitted that poison gas was used. He said that Assad lost his nerves and made a big mistake by ordering the chemical weapons attack.

- more -

http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/german-intelligence-contributes-to-fact-finding-on-syria-gas-attack-a-920123.html

Syria: Ban says UN chemical weapons experts working ‘around the clock’ to analyze evidence

3 September 2013 – Secretary-General Ban Ki-moon announced today that all biomedical and environmental samples gathered by United Nations inspectors at sites of possible chemical weapons use in Syria are now arriving at designated laboratories in Europe.

Speaking to the press at UN Headquarters in New York, Mr. Ban said that the Mission, led by Swedish scientist Dr. Åke Sellström, has worked “around the clock” since returning from Syria over the weekend to prepare the materials it gathered for analysis. All the samples will arrive at the laboratories by tomorrow. "We are doing our utmost to expedite the process," he added.

“Since the horrendous attacks in the Ghouta area of Damascus two weeks ago, the (Mission) has been working urgently to establish the facts regarding the nature and extent of any use of chemical weapons, Mr. Ban said, underscoring that, as the first probe of allegations of the use of weapons of mass destruction in the 21st century, “the Mission’s success is in everyone’s interest.”

http://www.un.org/apps/news/story.asp?NewsID=45760&Cr=syria&Cr1=

Those claiming that Kerry is lying about the evidence that Assad did it must believe that some other entity is responsible.

The fact is that there was a chemical attack in Syria.

[David__77]

1. It's the flight forward/hysteria about Hitler/"Munich" that's the insanity.

That has no bearing on the he said/she said of the attacks in the Syrian Civil War.

[golfguru]

2. Thank you Nancy Pelosi & sen Reid

for supporting attack on Syria. It is a crime to use WMD's on civilians and the criminal must be spanked.

[tazkcmo]

3. As I said in another you posted this in

It's 2 questions: Who did it? and What are we going to do about it? and it's the 2nd question that is what the hullabaloo is all about.

There you go

[cali]

4. I suspect I speak for others here when I say that

it makes no difference to my opposing military strikes that Assad's regime perpetrated Ghouta.

That simply is not the basis to my opposition.

I oppose military strikes because the risks are too great, because we have no right to unilaterally attack another nation, because the blowback whether next week or next year will be a bitch, because civilians will be killed by our bombs in the Middle East- again.

[ProSense]

7. Didn't you claim Kerry was lying. n/t

[cali]

8. not about that, pro dear. n/t do try and pay attention

[ProSense]

9. What's you're saying is that because you disagree with Kerry he's lying.

That's your argument. You can't possibly claim to be 100 percent sure you know what's going on in Syria, or that Kerry doesn't.

[JI7]

5. does this mean france and germany are part of pnac

and they have "lost their souls" or whatever stupid shit is being spewed.

i think a lot of people are upset Obama did not attack already as they had hoped so they can go on another round of their phony outrage.

[ProSense]

6. It's more than that.

"i think a lot of people are upset Obama did not attack already as they had hoped so they can go on another round of their phony outrage. "

There were constant cries for Obama to go through Congress, and people were expecting a strike without Congress being involved.

ACLU Urges the President to Obtain Official Congressional Authorization Before Taking Military Action in Syria

WASHINGTON – In a letter sent to the White House today, the American Civil Liberties Union urged President Obama to refrain from initiating military action in Syria until Congressional votes have occurred in both chambers, authorizing such use of military force.

While the ACLU does not take a position on whether military force should be used, the organization has consistently insisted, from the war in Vietnam through both wars in Iraq, that Congress give advance authorization for the use of such force.

“Before any decisions are made regarding U.S. military action, the president, according to our Constitution, must obtain congressional authorization for use of any military force,” said ACLU Washington Legislative Office Director Laura W. Murphy. “Mere consultation between the White House and certain congressional leaders does not provide sufficient authority to the president to unilaterally use any military force. Floor debate should commence as soon as possible and certainly no later than the date on which Congress reconvenes.”

“Use of military force by the administration in Syria in the absence of congressional action would strike at the very heart of the fundamental principle of separation of powers that is at the core of the Constitution,” says the letter, signed by Murphy.

- more -

https://www.aclu.org/national-security/aclu-urges-president-obtain-official-congressional-authorization-taking-military

The President is doing exactly that, and apparently that caught some off guard, resulting in them having to move the goal post.

Expect the same if the U.N. Security Council approves.

[Bjorn Against]

10. I still remember all the "undeniable evidence" of Saddam's WMDs

I did not believe the bullshit then and I don't believe it now, if the administration were truly trying to send a message that chemical weapons are wrong they would prosecute the people in the Bush Administration and the Pentagon who ordered the use of chemical weapons on Fallujah.

[ProSense]

11. So you don't believe there was a chemical attack? n/t

[Bjorn Against]

12. I never said that, but thanks for putting words in my mouth

There is evidence of a chemical attack but no proof of who is responsible for the attack. There is proof of who is responsible for the chemical weapons used in Fallujah however and the people responsible have still not been prosecuted. If the administration truly wanted to show the world that it will not tolerate the use of chemical weapons then it needs to prosecute the people responsible for the use of chemical weapons in Fallujah.

[ProSense]

13. Where

"There is evidence of a chemical attack but no proof of who is responsible for the attack."

...do you think the "proof" is going to come from? You've dismissed the evidence presented by three countries.

[Bjorn Against]

15. I have been lied to by governments about war too many times

The government lies about war all the time, I don't automatically trust the reports they throw at me. I remember lots of government reports that said Saddam had WMDs, they were all lies.

As I said if the Obama administration wants to show that it is truly working to stop the use of chemical weapons them it needs to prosecute the people who ordered the chemical attack on Fallujah. If they can't do that they are showing themselves to be hypocrites when it comes to the use of chemical weapons.

[ProSense]

17. You keep saying that there was an attack, but comparing it to non-existing WMD. n/t

[Bjorn Against]

18. I am comparing it to a chemical weapons attack which our government ordered

You can keep dodging that point all you want, but you know it is the truth. High ranking US officials ordered a chemical attack on Fallujah and the people who ordered this attack were never prosecuted. If the US won't prosecute people in our own country who used chemical weapons then we have no moral authority to bomb another country on the basis that they used chemical weapons.

[ProSense]

20. No, you're dismissing it by trying to make a false equivalency.

“Since the horrendous attacks in the Ghouta area of Damascus two weeks ago, the (Mission) has been working urgently to establish the facts regarding the nature and extent of any use of chemical weapons, Mr. Ban said, underscoring that, as the first probe of allegations of the use of weapons of mass destruction in the 21st century, “the Mission’s success is in everyone’s interest.”

[Bjorn Against]

21. There is no false equivalency, it is as wrong for the US to use chemical weapons as it is for Syria

It is pure hypocrisy to go to war with another country over chemical weapons while our government has used chemical weapons and the people who ordered the attacks have still not been prosecuted.

[polly7]

14. Me too. And how the Inspectors were supposedly not allowed to do their jobs, etc., rinse, repeat.

By Damien McElroy and agencies9:04AM BST 06 May 2013

"According to the testimonies we have gathered, the rebels have used chemical weapons, making use of sarin gas," del Ponte, a former war crimes prosecutor, said in an interview with Swiss radio late on Sunday.
"We still have to deepen our investigation, verify and confirm (the findings) through new witness testimony, but according to what we have established so far, it is at the moment opponents of the regime who are using sarin gas," she added.
She stressed that the UN commission of inquiry on Syria, which she is a part of, had far from finished its investigation.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/middleeast/syria/10039672/UN-accuses-Syrian-rebels-of-chemical-weapons-use.html


President Obama has no United Nations approval for intervention. (In February a massive bombing attack in Damascus left 100 dead and 250 wounded; in all likelihood the work of Islamic terrorists. The United States blocked a Russian resolution condemning the attack from moving through the UN Security Council)

http://williamblum.org/aer/read/120


It smells just as bad now as it did then.

And check out just how the Security Council came about getting it's information for action against Libya.

I have no doubt there will be hell unleashed on Syria, but not for any 'humanitarian' reason.

[Sand Wind]

16. Kick. Nt

[krispos42]

19. Then France and Germany can start bombing Syria

France has a decent navy; Germany has some quite nice bombers.


Go to town, guys.

[freshwest]

23. Putin: Russia might let U.N. OK strike against Syria

AP/ September 4, 2013

NOVO-OGARYOVO, Russia President Vladimir Putin warned the West against taking one-sided action in Syria but also said Russia "doesn't exclude" supporting a U.N. resolution on punitive military strikes if it is proven that Damascus used poison gas on its own people.

In a wide-ranging interview with The Associated Press and Russia's state Channel 1 television, Putin said Moscow has provided some components of the S-300 air defense missile system to Syria but has frozen further shipments. He suggested that Russia may sell the potent missile systems elsewhere if Western nations attack Syria without U.N. Security Council backing...

"If there are data that the chemical weapons have been used, and used specifically by the regular army, this evidence should be submitted to the U.N. Security Council," added Putin, a former officer in the Soviet KGB. "And it ought to be convincing. It shouldn't be based on some rumors and information obtained by special services through some kind of eavesdropping, some conversations and things like that..."

Asked what kind of evidence on chemical weapons use would convince Russia, Putin said it "should be a deep and specific probe containing evidence that would be obvious and prove beyond doubt who did it and what means were used..."

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57601235/putin-russia-might-let-u.n-ok-strike-against-syria/

While the interview did not endorse action, he left room with sufficient scientific evidence. The USA and Russia have worked hard since 1992 as signatories to the CWC on the reduction of their own stockpiles of WMD. Not only chemical, but biological and nuclear.

Russia recieved American help and money to help destroy its stockpile and is 90% down. The USA has eliminated 57% and has more work from by the stockpiles by GWB which must be destroyed. Syria and North Korea did not sign onto the CWC but 189 nations have.

Iraq was producing them before the first Gulf War and still had some in 2009 but they are heavily damaged. It has always been said that CW are the poor man's nuclear bomb and that's why it's been hard to get those who have them to give them up, it's their ultimate tool.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chemical_Weapons_Convention

The Arab League, that Kerry mentioned as being willing to pay for action in Syria, has not agreed with its members who reacted harshly to the Arab Spring. Libya was suspended because of its actions toward protestors and that is why there was no hue and outcry over the toppling of Quaddafi. The interim government has been given his seat.

Assad's regime in Syria is also suspended, because of his violence against his opponents. The Arab League picked a rebel force, the Syrian National Coalition, to take Assad's seat in the League in 2013:

A wave of criticism rose as the Arab League sent in December 2011 a commission "monitoring" violence on people protesting against the regime. The commission was headed by Mohammad Ahmed Mustafa al-Dabi, who served as head of Omar al-Bashir's military intelligence, while war crimes including genocide were allegedly committed on his watch.[15][16][17]

On 6 March 2013, the Arab League granted the Syrian National Coalition Syria's seat in the Arab League.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_league

A read of the Wikipedia page there shows that the Arab League, composed of 22 nations, which has regulated trade and other things in the countries connected by language and tradition, is not a fly-by-night or a USA creation. They have their own interests and have acted upon them, and worked with the USA and Britain as that shows.

I'd love to see a joint task force of Russians and the USA and all other nations who are willing go to Syria and take out these weapons and tell Assad to know it off. Then go home again.

If Assad wants to 'give a peace a chance,' he can let them in to inspect and clear this up and maybe even help him meet the needs of his people and not kill them. If he's determined to keep warning war on his own people with CW and using them on his neighbors as he's said that he would out of revenge, there will be a problem either way.