EmptyWheel's Extremely Disconcerting, Factual Chronology On U.S. Involvement In Syria

[kpete]

beginning here:

Why is Obama Changing the Date and Size of First CIA Death Squads to Enter Syria?
Posted on September 4, 2013 by Jim White

There is a very interesting point thrown in as a small tidbit in Monday’s New York Times story on Barack Obama securing the support of John McCain for a military strike on Syria:

Officials said that in the same conversation, which included Senator Lindsey Graham, the South Carolina Republican, Mr. Obama indicated that a covert effort by the United States to arm and train Syrian rebels was beginning to yield results: the first 50-man cell of fighters, who have been trained by the C.I.A., was beginning to sneak into Syria.

Taken at face value, this version of the story would have us believe that the first group of 50 trained by the CIA was presumably still in the process of “sneaking” into Syria on Monday. But the timeline of US training for these fighters is much more complex than that. Some foul-mouthed blogger http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/05/11/petraeus-revenge/ noted back in May that this training program had already been underway for some time and the LA Times http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/21/world/la-fg-cia-syria-20130622 caught up with her in June, disclosing that the program began at least as far back as November 2012 on US bases in Jordan and Turkey.

(too many links, just go here & read it all, take your time....):
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/09/04/why-is-obama-changing-the-date-and-size-of-first-cia-death-squads-to-enter-syria/

**********************

UPDATE (6:30 PM EDT, 9-4-13):
Worthy of republishing, IMHO, from the comments in this post....

Interesting opening paragraphs from the linked
... Jerusalem Post piece:
http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Syrian-rebel-forces-trained-by-West-are-moving-towards-Damascus-324033

Guerrilla fighters trained by the West began moving towards Damascus in mid-August, French newspaper Le Figaro reported on Thursday.

Le Figaro reported that this is the reason behind the Assad regime's alleged chemical weapons attack in Damascus on Wednesday morning, as UN inspectors were allowed into the country to investigate allegations of WMD use.

Now contrast that with what White wrote (end of (1+ / 0-)
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/09/04/why-is-obama-changing-the-date-and-size-of-first-cia-death-squads-to-enter-syria/

Okay, now this gets interesting. Obama claimed only the first group of 50 were entering, while Le Figaro claimed there were two groups, with the first one being 300 and the second one not specified by size. Further, note the dates and location: they entered on August 17 and 19 and they passed through Ghouta. The large number of deaths from a suspected chemical warfare agent occurred on August 21 in Ghouta...

In other words, White insinuates that these CIA-trained fighters were the ones who may have launched the chemical weapons attacks shortly after arriving in Ghouta, while the Jerusalem Post story he cites (which cites the Le Figaro story) claims that the Syrian government launched the chemical attack specifically to kill these CIA-trained fighters who had just entered Ghouta.


by Bob Johnson on Wed Sep 04, 2013 at 06:17:32 PM EDT

.................................



http://www.jpost.com/Middle-East/Report-Syrian-rebel-forces-trained-by-West-are-moving-towards-Damascus-324033
http://www.dailykos.com/comments/1236306/51256958#c23
and, of course (tons more info & links):
http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/09/04/why-is-obama-changing-the-date-and-size-of-first-cia-death-squads-to-enter-syria/

[cthulu2016]

1. Without endorsing particulars of the article, this is my general sense of things

A covert US intervention in Syria began late this summer

Assad lost all restraint, nerve-gas-wise

The US sought to intervene with missile power to take out Syria's air-force, thereby greatly supporting intervention effort

My view is not tin-foil. This is the story the WH has been telling anyone who will listen, but in a WMD restrictions wrapper.


And I don't know that our covert war here is nessecarily wrong, if discussed on a serious level.

But the WH is selling the people some bullshit.

[KittyWampus]

17. US involvement isn't covert. From February

I posted more links below for news stories since February.


February 28th:


The United States is helping to train rebels at a base in the region and for the first time offering armed groups nonlethal equipment, according to the New York Times.

The training mission, already under way, represents the deepest American involvement yet in the Syrian conflict, though the size and scope of the mission is not clear, nor is its host country. The offer of non-lethal assistance is expected from Kerry at a meeting on Thursday in Rome with opposition leaders.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/2013/feb/28/syria-crisis-opposition-seeks-military-help-live

[riderinthestorm]

2. Wow. Gotta K&R this. nt

[dkf]

3. Wow. This is just dishonest.... We can't trust a thing they say.

[L0oniX]

9. I am puzzled that anyone would trust our government. n/t

[dkf]

11. I'm trying...but they keep kicking me off that habit.

[ProSense]

4. "Why is Obama Changing the Date and Size of First CIA Death Squads to Enter Syria? "

At this point, people are simply pushing conspiracy theories.

What the hell is this: "CIA Death Squads to Enter Syria"?

Is this a reference to arming the opposition?

There are people pushing for a larger war, including some Republicans, so culling together bits and pieces of MSM reports is not a "factual" account of anything.

[kpete]

6. sometimes there are cobwebs

Taken at face value, this version of the story would have us believe that the first group of 50 trained by the CIA was presumably still in the process of “sneaking” into Syria on Monday. But the timeline of US training for these fighters is much more complex than that. Some foul-mouthed blogger http://www.emptywheel.net/2013/05/11/petraeus-revenge/ noted back in May that this training program had already been underway for some time and the LA Times http://articles.latimes.com/2013/jun/21/world/la-fg-cia-syria-20130622 caught up with her in June, disclosing that the program began at least as far back as November 2012 on US bases in Jordan and Turkey.

[truedelphi]

16. Clarification was needed. Thanks for offering it up. n/t

[KittyWampus]

23. Here- reposting once more for actual information, dates and mainstream links. Your OP is crap.

December 11th:


U.S. Will Grant Recognition to Syrian Rebels, Obama Says

WASHINGTON — President Obama said Tuesday that the United States would formally recognize a coalition of Syrian opposition groups as that country’s legitimate representative, in an attempt to intensify the pressure on President Bashar al-Assad to give up his nearly two-year bloody struggle to stay in power.

snip

But it marks a new phase of American engagement in a bitter conflict that has claimed at least 40,000 lives, threatened to destabilize the broader Middle East and defied all outside attempts to end it. The United States had for much of the civil war largely sat on the sidelines, only recently moving more energetically as it appeared the opposition fighters were beginning to gain momentum — and radical Islamists were playing a growing role.

Experts and many Syrians, including rebels, say the move may well be too little, too late. They note that it is not at all clear if this group will be able to coalesce into a viable leadership, if it has any influence over the fighters waging war with the government or if it can roll back widespread anger at the United States.

snip
“Not everybody who is participating on the ground in fighting Assad are people that we are comfortable with,” Mr. Obama said in an interview on the ABC program “20/20.” “There are some who I think have adopted an extremist agenda, an anti-U.S. agenda.”

snip
Mr. Obama notably did not commit himself to providing arms to the rebels or to supporting them militarily with airstrikes or the establishment of a no-fly zone, a stance that has led to a rise of anti-American sentiment among many of the rebels.


February 28th:

• The United States is helping to train rebels at a base in the region and for the first time offering armed groups nonlethal equipment, according to the New York Times.

The training mission, already under way, represents the deepest American involvement yet in the Syrian conflict, though the size and scope of the mission is not clear, nor is its host country. The offer of non-lethal assistance is expected from Kerry at a meeting on Thursday in Rome with opposition leaders.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/2013/feb/28/syria-crisis-opposition-seeks-military-help-live


April 24:


Despite hopes in Damascus, President Obama has not backed off his demand that Mr. Assad step down. The administration has also kept up economic pressure on his government and has increased nonlethal aid to the opposition while calling for a negotiated settlement to the fighting.

But the United States has signaled growing discomfort with the rising influence of radical Islamists on the battlefield, and it remains unwilling to arm the rebels or to consider stepping in more forcefully without conclusive evidence that the Syrian government used chemical weapons, as some Israeli officials assert.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/world/middleeast/syria-campaigns-to-persuade-us-to-change-sides.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0

June 21st:

The tightly constrained U.S. effort reflects Obama's continuing doubts about being drawn into a conflict that has already killed more than 100,000 people and his administration's fear that Islamic militants now leading the war against President Bashar Assad could gain control of advanced U.S. weaponry.

The training has involved fighters from the Free Syrian Army, a loose confederation of rebel groups that the Obama administration has promised to back with expanded military assistance, said a U.S. official, who discussed the effort anonymously because he was not authorized to disclose details.

July 22nd:
Plan To Arm Syrian Rebels Moving Forward After Congressional Hurdles Lifted

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/plan-arm-syrian-rebels_n_3636506.html



Sept 2nd:

U.S. Still Hasn't Armed Syrian Rebels

By ADAM ENTOUS and NOUR MALAS CONNECT
In June, the White House authorized the Central Intelligence Agency to help arm moderate fighters battling the Assad regime, a signal to Syrian rebels that the cavalry was coming. Three months later, they are still waiting.

The delay, in part, reflects a broader U.S. approach rarely discussed publicly but that underpins its decision-making, according to former and current U.S. officials: The Obama administration doesn't want to tip the balance in favor of the opposition for fear the outcome may be even worse for U.S. interests than the current stalemate.



U.S. officials attribute the delay in providing small arms and munitions from the CIA weapons program to the difficulty of establishing secure delivery "pipelines" to prevent weapons from falling into the wrong hands, in particular Jihadi militants also battling the Assad regime.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324202304579051280341316034.html

[Cha]

36. So much propaganda.. so

little time.

[cthulu2016]

7. Trying reading what the WH tells the NYT

[delrem]

10. What do you think the CIA does? Humanitarian work?

[TransitJohn]

14. Humanitarian work through waterboarding and stress positions. eom

n/t

[uponit7771]

35. +1 " bits and pieces of MSM reports is not a "factual" account"

[BB1]

5. I remember US Special Forces getting caught in Baghdad

right before the UN Weapons Inspectors were headed to that city. They were to investigate warehouses where Saddam Hussain allegedly hid WMD's. The Special Forces were caught at that specific location.

Google away and see if you can find it. I'm tired of this 'war' already.
Pretty soon, I predict, some or all of Europe will be in some sort of civil war. I'm way up in Europe (the Netherlands), so we'll be fine for the next five years or so. But we're getting more and more desperate refugees with a fanatical disposition into our country, waving Al Quada flags and acting racist towards whites, Jews and especially women. Perpetuating war in the ME will not help us in any way.

My take on this is that Obama is bowing to the House of Saud like Bush before him. If the Sheik tells Obama to jump, etc. The Saoudis have nothing but money and a gigantic influence on the OPEC. There's a hidden agenda for everyone to see. Obama is NOT helping the Syrian people but protecting other interests.

[KoKo]

8. I had wondered about the "50 CIA" that we were supposedly sending into

Syria this weekend. Sounded suspicious to me. And, that I remembered that we've had people in there for awhile helping the band of what Kerry called the "Good Guys" in his hearing today.

I scanned her piece but will dig into it later. Something just isn't right about this whole thing. They won't release the information to support their White Paper ..and I still have a problem with those videos that keep being shown not looking authentic. There's just something about them that strikes me as "off."

Thanks K-Pete. Haven been over to Marci's recently and she does good probing.

[chimpymustgo]

37. The whole thing is "off" - the blatant lies, the hard sell. Why? Why now? Obama, Kerry, et tu?

Who's really behind all this? And what is the plan? Is it the PNAC neocon ME plan back in action?

[G_j]

12. any supposition aside,

there is a lot of eyeopening information here.

[KittyWampus]

22. Read my post below if you think this is "eyeopening". This has all been reported in mainstream press

Just because DU'ers were not paying attention doesn't mean some fool jabbering and misconstruing one article means anything.

And this is the crux of what's going on at DU, most of those spouting ugly crap don't know much about anything.

[pkdu]

33. ^^^^^^^^THIS times a gazillion ^^^^^^^

[KoKo]

13. so....

some of the special forces could have been injured in the attack...and no one wants to talk about that. Or, they helped do the attack....and no one wants to talk about it.

[woo me with science]

15. It just gets creepier and more disturbing.

This whole march to war smells of lies...again.

[delrem]

19. Here's what's creepiest

Creepiest is that Pres. Obama presents this case for bombing to the US congress at the exact time that the US is at mid-point in a regime change military operation.
Next creepiest is that very very few even Democrats will acknowledge that the US has led (from behind) this regime change operation from the beginning.

Meta-creepy is how the US citizenry are being conditioned to an Orwellian newspeak wherein whole sectors of the US population is lost in a neocon bubble.

eta: see post #18 for one of the commonest examples.

[KittyWampus]

21. Not if you read the facts and ignore the bullshit.

[woo me with science]

24. I try to ignore it, but some of the maps are just so colorful...

[KittyWampus]

30. Here, I started a thread with more facts and less woo. And it's noted that you post non sequitors

about maps rather than anything relevant.

It says volumes about you.

Either you care about facts or you don't.

The ugliest crap comes from people who know the least and don't give a crap about learning.


http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023600805

[sabrina 1]

25. We've read them and they are not even half, or close to it, the truth of our involvement in both

Libya and Syria as we were in Iraq. What they ADMITTED to is just the tip of the iceberg of our role in destabilizing these countries, and imo, it is pure evil to help get all these innocent people killed. We are a threat to the entire world and someone who cares about this country needs to start reigning it in before the world decides we need an outside intervention.

The whole thing is disgusting and even more so is the fact that any DEMOCRAT, seeing the human misery we have created all over that region, could possibly support any of it. Shameful.

[KittyWampus]

31. what's shameful are supposed liberals pretending to be well informed but mindlessly spouting crap

[sabrina 1]

40. You know, I really wish you were right. But the fact is, things are way worse than people thought

when we thought it would all stop if only we could get rid of Republicans.

And each day there is more and more evidence of just how wrong we were to assume that.

We have been involved in Syria and every other country in the ME for a very long time, manipulating their wars, supporting their dictators, turning a blind eye to, or worse, making use of their willingness to torture and abuse human beings.

Look at the history of the US. Who do we generally support in the ME, who DID we support in Latin America, who are we supporting now??

This country supports DICTATORS unless they do something to annoy us, then we help install another puppet government.

Then we demonize the very people we nursed into power and set them up for assassination or lifelong prison terms.


None of it is about the people. And few people around the world, most of whom know way more about our disastrous policies than Americans do, believe a word that is said by any American leader.

What is sad is that we really did think Obama would begin to change all that and for a short while, so did the rest of the world. But it's unlikely any president will be able to change anything, as people are learning.

[chimpymustgo]

38. It is utterly shameful. What the HELL is the USA? What are we? Who are we?

I am filled with disgust.

[KittyWampus]

18. If you read the articles instead of the asinine insinuations-

February 28th:


• The United States is helping to train rebels at a base in the region and for the first time offering armed groups nonlethal equipment, according to the New York Times.

The training mission, already under way, represents the deepest American involvement yet in the Syrian conflict, though the size and scope of the mission is not clear, nor is its host country. The offer of non-lethal assistance is expected from Kerry at a meeting on Thursday in Rome with opposition leaders.


http://www.theguardian.com/world/middle-east-live/2013/feb/28/syria-crisis-opposition-seeks-military-help-live

April 24:


Despite hopes in Damascus, President Obama has not backed off his demand that Mr. Assad step down. The administration has also kept up economic pressure on his government and has increased nonlethal aid to the opposition while calling for a negotiated settlement to the fighting.

But the United States has signaled growing discomfort with the rising influence of radical Islamists on the battlefield, and it remains unwilling to arm the rebels or to consider stepping in more forcefully without conclusive evidence that the Syrian government used chemical weapons, as some Israeli officials assert.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/04/25/world/middleeast/syria-campaigns-to-persuade-us-to-change-sides.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0



June 21st:

The tightly constrained U.S. effort reflects Obama's continuing doubts about being drawn into a conflict that has already killed more than 100,000 people and his administration's fear that Islamic militants now leading the war against President Bashar Assad could gain control of advanced U.S. weaponry.

The training has involved fighters from the Free Syrian Army, a loose confederation of rebel groups that the Obama administration has promised to back with expanded military assistance, said a U.S. official, who discussed the effort anonymously because he was not authorized to disclose details.

July 22nd:
Plan To Arm Syrian Rebels Moving Forward After Congressional Hurdles Lifted

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/22/plan-arm-syrian-rebels_n_3636506.html



Sept 2nd:

U.S. Still Hasn't Armed Syrian Rebels

By ADAM ENTOUS and NOUR MALAS CONNECT
In June, the White House authorized the Central Intelligence Agency to help arm moderate fighters battling the Assad regime, a signal to Syrian rebels that the cavalry was coming. Three months later, they are still waiting.

The delay, in part, reflects a broader U.S. approach rarely discussed publicly but that underpins its decision-making, according to former and current U.S. officials: The Obama administration doesn't want to tip the balance in favor of the opposition for fear the outcome may be even worse for U.S. interests than the current stalemate.



U.S. officials attribute the delay in providing small arms and munitions from the CIA weapons program to the difficulty of establishing secure delivery "pipelines" to prevent weapons from falling into the wrong hands, in particular Jihadi militants also battling the Assad regime.

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887324202304579051280341316034.html

[G_j]

32. interesting

Last edited Thu Sep 5, 2013, 02:25 AM - Edit history (1)

it's not the dirty dozen..

Seriously, this is a part of a timeline, or the official version of the timeline, all to be taken into account. I heard today that McCain sees more sophisticated arms going to some rebel forces, giving the impression that smaller arms had been provided.
So?

[jsr]

20. Recommend

[Luminous Animal]

26. Good stuff. Thanks for posting....

nut Marcy Wheeler... foul-mouthed blogger? I read her blog every week and I can't recall her regularly or even sporadically foul-mouthed.

[KittyWampus]

29. impervious to facts, apparently.

Here, in case anyone is interested in actual facts

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023600805

[nadinbrzezinski]

27. But people laughed at me when we went there

[nadinbrzezinski]

28. Oh hells bells

http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1671459_insight-military-intervention-in-syria-post-withdrawal.html

[tiny elvis]

34. did you dig this up? good job

http://wikileaks.org/gifiles/docs/1671459_insight-military-intervention-in-syria-post-withdrawal.html
[e-mail]
2011-12-07

they said without saying that SOF teams
(presumably from US, UK, France, Jordan, Turkey) are already on the ground
focused on recce missions and training opposition forces. One Air Force
intel guy (US) said very carefully that there isn't much of a Free Syrian
Army to train right now anyway, but all the operations being done now are
being done out of 'prudence.'

There still seems to be a lot of confusion over what a military
intervention involving an air campaign would be designed to achieve. It
isn't clear cut for them geographically like in Libya, and you can't just
create an NFZ over Homs, Hama region. This would entail a countrywide SEAD
campaign lasting the duration of the war. They dont believe air
intervention would happen unless there was enough media attention on a
massacre, like the Ghadafi move against Benghazi. They think the US would
have a high tolerance for killings as long as it doesn't reach that very
public stage.

[nadinbrzezinski]

43. Catherina did

[woo me with science]

39. Don't miss this post, either:

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023601131

The whole thing reeks.

[MinM]

41. Marcy Wheeler

is awesome.

[MinM]

44. EmptyWheel

Marcy Wheeler is having a fundraiser to celebrate her two millionth visitor. I can think of no other blogger more deserving of your support. She does national security issues better than anyone else on the internet -- every time I think I've gotten a step ahead of her, I discover her footprints in the sand ahead of me...

http://cannonfire.blogspot.com/2013/09/emptywheel.html

[stevenleser]

42. My being against the war is a continuation of being against our policy of helping the rebels.

This is dumb. Really dumb. We should have learned our lesson from helping the Mujahideen.

We should stay out of conflicts and civil wars particularly in that region of the world.