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redqueen

(115,103 posts)
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 05:38 PM Sep 2013

'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result

...

The investigators found one brain area linked to attention skills that differed between exposed and nonexposed children, but they could not find any clinically significant effect on behavioral tests of attention skills.

Drug use did not differ between the exposed and nonexposed participants as young adults. About 42 percent used marijuana and three tested positive for cocaine one time each.

The team has kept tabs on 110 of the 224 children originally in the study. Of the 110, two are dead - one shot in a bar and another in a drive-by shooting - three are in prison, six graduated from college, and six more are on track to graduate. There have been 60 children born to the 110 participants.

The years of tracking kids have led Hurt to a conclusion she didn't see coming.

"Poverty is a more powerful influence on the outcome of inner-city children than gestational exposure to cocaine," Hurt said at her May lecture.

...

http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-22/news/40709969_1_hallam-hurt-so-called-crack-babies-funded-study
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'Crack baby' study ends with unexpected but clear result (Original Post) redqueen Sep 2013 OP
This is an honest researcher, to go where the data leads. "Poverty is a more powerful influence... Hekate Sep 2013 #1
Not really--over half the participants aren't accounted for, and when you eliminate preemies from msanthrope Sep 2013 #6
I agree. Crack babies are more likely to be born prematurely so it skews the data pnwmom Sep 2013 #26
They should have a different study to test crack bettyellen Sep 2013 #28
Illicit drug use, alcohol & tobacco, are significant risk factors for pre-term delivery and msanthrope Sep 2013 #29
I don't know why the outcome was unexpected Warpy Sep 2013 #2
It was a way to criminalize poverty and Cerridwen Sep 2013 #3
my first thought mercuryblues Sep 2013 #48
Sad but interesting data. Butterbean Sep 2013 #4
Had she compared them to other low birth weight, barely viable Warpy Sep 2013 #30
The kids I see withdrawing now take a lot longer than 48 hours. Butterbean Sep 2013 #40
So do heroin babies. 72 hour detox for them. Warpy Sep 2013 #43
I know, I can't believe meth babies survive, either. n/t Butterbean Sep 2013 #44
What happened to the other half of the kids in the original study? If you started with 224, but msanthrope Sep 2013 #5
Good question. Why don't you find an answer for the rest of us. Cerridwen Sep 2013 #8
Well, one expects answers to easy questions in the study itself. I find the whole "crack baby" msanthrope Sep 2013 #12
"One" also expects "one" to provide proof of "ones" Cerridwen Sep 2013 #13
One is expected to provide proof of one's questions? That's an awfully authoritarian msanthrope Sep 2013 #14
Authoritanism is embraced by DU. Cerridwen Sep 2013 #15
Wait, what? I am a bully now? For asking questions? Somebody better tell Hekate below that she is msanthrope Sep 2013 #17
Holy shit, you just can't win, can you? 7962 Sep 2013 #22
It's possible some would question my motivations for asking said questions. Fair enough, but msanthrope Sep 2013 #25
Why only study full term and near to term babies? Chellee Sep 2013 #23
Skew or disprove? See the problem? nt msanthrope Sep 2013 #24
So your suspicion Chellee Sep 2013 #34
Well--that's the problem right there. Scientific studies can't prove that msanthrope Sep 2013 #36
"preemies...got lopped off" Chellee Sep 2013 #39
Because premies have a plethora of problems. Warren Stupidity Sep 2013 #33
I know. I agree with you. Chellee Sep 2013 #35
The answer was in the artlcle. Mariana Sep 2013 #41
Good question--but sometimes subjects move away or drop out. It is voluntary, after all.... Hekate Sep 2013 #9
Oh--I agree that "crack baby" was as valid as "welfare queen" but what I am wondering about msanthrope Sep 2013 #11
Don't know. There are so many preemies these days, and for so many reasons. Hekate Sep 2013 #16
Yeah--but the kids we are discussing are 25 plus years old, not part of the current msanthrope Sep 2013 #18
You can probably track down other studies that specifically target them. Researchers really do want Hekate Sep 2013 #19
You bring up a good point about "level of exposure." Other than a blood test msanthrope Sep 2013 #21
They very likely moved out of the area Warpy Sep 2013 #31
do you really want to know Supersedeas Sep 2013 #42
Not surprising at all. One of the constants we see with the rapid advancement of scientific Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #7
That sentence in bold says it all: surrealAmerican Sep 2013 #10
that says it all heaven05 Sep 2013 #20
kick Liberal_in_LA Sep 2013 #27
Interesting. blackspade Sep 2013 #32
BUT----The Big American Question about this is... nikto Sep 2013 #37
The quote... nikto Sep 2013 #38
And we've known this for a long time. LWolf Sep 2013 #45
Duh? Yah think? nt bemildred Sep 2013 #46
Poverty and unemployment are the worst drugs of all, drugs forced onto the poor. ck4829 Sep 2013 #47
Despite the hysteria of the 90s, Crack Babies have proved... bvar22 Sep 2013 #49
Only 12 to college. What a tragedy. Barack_America Sep 2013 #50

Hekate

(90,681 posts)
1. This is an honest researcher, to go where the data leads. "Poverty is a more powerful influence...
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 05:53 PM
Sep 2013

"Poverty is a more powerful influence on the outcome of inner-city children than gestational exposure to cocaine," Hurt said at her May lecture.


We still need to end the War on Drugs and get back to the War on Poverty, don't we?

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
6. Not really--over half the participants aren't accounted for, and when you eliminate preemies from
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:03 PM
Sep 2013

your study, well, aren't you skewing the odds?

pnwmom

(108,977 posts)
26. I agree. Crack babies are more likely to be born prematurely so it skews the data
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 08:50 PM
Sep 2013

to not include them in the research.

 

bettyellen

(47,209 posts)
28. They should have a different study to test crack
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 08:56 PM
Sep 2013

Preemies against other preemies then.
That would tell us something. Maybe they are cognitively no worse off than all those expensive fertility twins. THAT would be interesting to know too.

But this is a different study- one that shatters some widely held prejudices- which is always a very good thing.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
29. Illicit drug use, alcohol & tobacco, are significant risk factors for pre-term delivery and
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 08:59 PM
Sep 2013

harm to the fetus.

Choosing the exclusion of such a population of infants makes me wonder, why?

The sad thing is that of course, alcohol seems to be a far more dangerous, and more widely-used drug than crack ever was.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
2. I don't know why the outcome was unexpected
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 05:55 PM
Sep 2013

They've known since the mid 90s that the whole "crack baby" canard was a fabrication of the drug warriors and that any negative effects on those children was from poverty, not drugs.

I'm pleased to see another propaganda leg kicked out from under the DEA. I'm also pleased to see the effects of poverty so clearly defined.

Cerridwen

(13,258 posts)
3. It was a way to criminalize poverty and
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 05:58 PM
Sep 2013

women in poverty specifically.

The "War on Poverty" is far more dangerous to those of us in the US than any wot could ever be. Combine it with the War on Women; all that's needed is a little "war on drugs." A "trifecta" of justification for treating the populace as criminals.

Oh yeah, not surprised.

mercuryblues

(14,531 posts)
48. my first thought
Fri Sep 6, 2013, 11:12 AM
Sep 2013

when I started reading this. If pverty is more detrimental to a child's well being than crack, the republicans will make it a felony for getting pregnant while poor.

Butterbean

(1,014 posts)
4. Sad but interesting data.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:00 PM
Sep 2013

I will, however, point out that she studied only full term or near term infants, not preemies. When I worked in the NICU (I now work on the other end, L&D), we had tons of micropreemies who were crack babies. Lots of 24-26 weekers. I wonder if the results would be different if she had included those babies as well?

At any rate, sad but interesting data.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
30. Had she compared them to other low birth weight, barely viable
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:00 PM
Sep 2013

preemies, the studies would have likely turned out the same.

It's incredibly distressing to see addicted babies for the first 48 hours after birth. I can see why people thought there would be no way for those children to have normal intelligence and normal lives.

But they did.

Butterbean

(1,014 posts)
40. The kids I see withdrawing now take a lot longer than 48 hours.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:57 PM
Sep 2013

They scream for a few weeks. Our nursery has had a rash of addicted babies recently; our latest was a meth baby. She screamed for 3 weeks, we took turns holding her (yes, even the L&D nurses...when we didn't have patients we'd go to the nursery and relieve the nursery nurses).

I'm glad the coke babies turn out okay despite the coke, that's heartening to see. Not glad to see the stats about child poverty of course.

Warpy

(111,255 posts)
43. So do heroin babies. 72 hour detox for them.
Fri Sep 6, 2013, 12:35 AM
Sep 2013

Meth might be something else, entirely. It's an incredibly harsh drug, aging people from the inside out at light speed. I can't believe that one isn't toxic to the fetus.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
5. What happened to the other half of the kids in the original study? If you started with 224, but
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:01 PM
Sep 2013

are only watching 110 of them....what happened to the rest?

Cerridwen

(13,258 posts)
8. Good question. Why don't you find an answer for the rest of us.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:25 PM
Sep 2013

I worked with a lot of people who appeared as you do. A lot of questions. Not one answer. It was almost as if their job was to cast doubt on anything that didn't fit the status quo.

I'm sure you're not one of those people so I look forward to seeing you answer that question.

Thanks in advance.



 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
12. Well, one expects answers to easy questions in the study itself. I find the whole "crack baby"
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:00 PM
Sep 2013

moniker as about as useful as "welfare queen" and just as fictional, but if one is going to do a scientific study, shouldn't one have answers to scientific questions?

Why only study full term and near to term babies? What happened to over half the participants? I think these are legitimate questions that can be asked while acknowledging that the term "crack baby" is a product of particular agenda.

Cerridwen

(13,258 posts)
13. "One" also expects "one" to provide proof of "ones"
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:07 PM
Sep 2013

questions to have a basis in fact. Doesn't "one?"

It wasn't that difficult of a request. Provide "ones" justification for "ones" doubt.

If "one" truly questioned the results, "one" might provide justification for "ones" doubts.

The ubiquitous use of "ones" "questions" has been shown to be a way to cast into doubt scientific evidence swallowed by the less questioning "ones."

I don't fit the later. Perhaps you fit the former? Show your work and prove you're of the later.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
14. One is expected to provide proof of one's questions? That's an awfully authoritarian
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:15 PM
Sep 2013

viewpoint, methinks.

A cat may look at a king, mightn't one?

Cerridwen

(13,258 posts)
15. Authoritanism is embraced by DU.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:22 PM
Sep 2013

Those of us who think otherwise pick up the weapons of authoritarianism and aim toward the authoritarians.

It's very difficult to see for the status quo supporting DUers as they see that which they use as the "norm" by which they judge themselves.

You want to play word twists in which the bullies claim bullying? That's boring. I've done that with bullies and republicans and "conservatives" my entire life. Oh yeah, I'm so biased against it that I recognize the bias of those who support bullying.



 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
17. Wait, what? I am a bully now? For asking questions? Somebody better tell Hekate below that she is
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:28 PM
Sep 2013

being bullied.

 

7962

(11,841 posts)
22. Holy shit, you just can't win, can you?
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 08:23 PM
Sep 2013

Some folks on this site just amaze me.
I'm still trying to figure out what the hell was so wrong with your very understandable question.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
25. It's possible some would question my motivations for asking said questions. Fair enough, but
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 08:45 PM
Sep 2013

I would prefer accusations to be made with more clarity.

Chellee

(2,096 posts)
23. Why only study full term and near to term babies?
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 08:26 PM
Sep 2013

From the article:

"Hurt's study enrolled only full-term babies so the possible effects of prematurity did not skew the results."

Chellee

(2,096 posts)
34. So your suspicion
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:11 PM
Sep 2013

is that more than two decades ago a group of researchers wanted to prove that cocaine exposure wouldn't ruin a child for life. So they cherry-picked participants to fit that conclusion by eliminating premature births?

And the studies from Atlanta and Boston that mirror these results are...cohorts?

I'm not trying to be difficult, I simply don't understand why you believe the study is so flawed. It seems to me that the researchers wanted to study the effects of crack only, so they eliminated factors, like prematurity, that would exacerbate problems.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
36. Well--that's the problem right there. Scientific studies can't prove that
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:23 PM
Sep 2013

"cocaine exposure wouldn't ruin a child for life." Scientific studies collect data, and interpret the results.

I think it's interesting that the study started off with 224 participants and ended with 110. Maybe those were the preemies that got lopped off.

I don't think anything nefarious is going on on the part of the researchers....I think the "crack baby" panic was as fictional and as agenda driven as the whole "welfare queen" meme was. But scientists aren't perfect, and I think it's always a good idea to question what we are told is the narrative.

Chellee

(2,096 posts)
39. "preemies...got lopped off"
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:30 PM
Sep 2013

It couldn't be, because they weren't in the study to begin with.

And when you have people voluntarily coming in for more than 23 years, you're going to lose some participants. I think that's to be expected, and that they would have factored in the... shrinkage, I guess you could call it?

I agree we should look at studies with a critical eye, but that doesn't automatically make every conclusion suspect.

 

Warren Stupidity

(48,181 posts)
33. Because premies have a plethora of problems.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:08 PM
Sep 2013

So it would be very difficult to isolate those from any crack induced ones. Of course a separate study could look for crack related premature births.

If you are dead set on keeping the crack baby myth alive, perhaps you should conduct such a study. Who knows where the data might go?

Chellee

(2,096 posts)
35. I know. I agree with you.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:16 PM
Sep 2013

I'm sorry, I should have used quotation marks when I was restating msanthrope's question.

Mariana

(14,856 posts)
41. The answer was in the artlcle.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 10:25 PM
Sep 2013
Hurt organized a study of 224 near-term or full-term babies born at Einstein between 1989 and 1992 - half with mothers who used cocaine during pregnancy and half who were not exposed to the drug in utero.

So, they started with 112 affected children. Two are dead. That leaves 110.

Hekate

(90,681 posts)
9. Good question--but sometimes subjects move away or drop out. It is voluntary, after all....
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:27 PM
Sep 2013

However, they framed their study appropriately, used a control group, and afaict did their best to use research tools honestly. Other studies have backed them up. Drugs/alcohol/tobacco are not good for babies --that we can all agree on. But "the "crack baby" label led to erroneous stereotyping. "You can't walk into a classroom and tell this kid was exposed and this kid was not."
http://articles.philly.com/2013-07-22/news/40709969_1_hallam-hurt-so-called-crack-babies-funded-study

Hurt's study enrolled only full-term babies so the possible effects of prematurity did not skew the results. The babies were then evaluated periodically, beginning at six months and then every six or 12 months on through young adulthood. Their mothers agreed to be tested for drug use throughout the study.

The researchers consistently found no significant differences between the cocaine-exposed children and the controls. ... When it came to school readiness at age 6, about 25 percent of children in each group scored in the abnormal range on tests for math and letter and word recognition.

"We went looking for the effects of cocaine," Hurt said. But after a time "we began to ask, 'Was there something else going on?' "
While the cocaine-exposed children and a group of nonexposed controls performed about the same on tests, both groups lagged on developmental and intellectual measures compared to the norm. Hurt and her team began to think the "something else" was poverty.

>snip<
Other researchers also couldn't find any devastating effects from cocaine exposure in the womb. Claire Coles, a psychiatry professor at Emory University, has been tracking a group of low-income Atlanta children. Her work has found that cocaine exposure does not seem to affect children's overall cognition and school performance, but some evidence suggests that these children are less able to regulate their reactions to stressful stimuli, which could affect learning and emotional health.

Coles said her research had found nothing to back up predictions that cocaine-exposed babies were doomed for life. "As a society we say, 'Cocaine is bad and therefore it must cause damage to babies,' " Coles said. "When you have a myth, it tends to linger for a long time."
Deborah A. Frank, a pediatrics professor at Boston University who has tracked a similar group of children, said the "crack baby" label led to erroneous stereotyping. "You can't walk into a classroom and tell this kid was exposed and this kid was not," Frank said. "Unfortunately, there are so many factors that affect poor kids. They have to deal with so much stress and deprivation. We have also found that exposure to violence is a huge factor."

Frank said that cocaine - along with other illicit drugs, alcohol, and cigarettes - "isn't good for babies," but the belief that they would "grow up to be addicts and criminals is not true. Some kids have stunned us with how well they've done."

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
11. Oh--I agree that "crack baby" was as valid as "welfare queen" but what I am wondering about
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:54 PM
Sep 2013

is how you take a study of "crack babies" and eliminate the preemies? Wouldn't full term suggest a limited...or more limited exposure to crack cocaine?

Hekate

(90,681 posts)
16. Don't know. There are so many preemies these days, and for so many reasons.
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:25 PM
Sep 2013

What my mother's generation would have mourned as a miscarriage (and there were many more than we acknowledge, really) now ends up in the NICU being kept alive at all costs. They come from all sorts of backgrounds, and oddly, increased use of fertility treatments is one factor in the spike in premature births. People paying through the nose for fertility treatments often choose to have twins, even triplets, and on occasion more because they can't bring themselves to selectively reduce what they sought so hard to achieve. Multiples are, more often than not, premature. For the rest of the maternal population, poor diet and access to prenatal care account for some of it too, and the US is bad at both.

You are right, though, that preemies are more likely to have compromised health even after they go home -- sometimes forever.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
18. Yeah--but the kids we are discussing are 25 plus years old, not part of the current
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:38 PM
Sep 2013

fertility-treatment spike. I think the control for gestational age might have been necessary but doesn't answer the questions about what happened to pre-term children? Drug use is a significant risk factor for pre-term delivery, so why eliminate the study of preemies?

What I would be interested in seeing is this--what was the level of exposure to 'crack' cocaine in these children as opposed to children who did not reach term and what were those outcomes, comparatively?

Hekate

(90,681 posts)
19. You can probably track down other studies that specifically target them. Researchers really do want
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:44 PM
Sep 2013

... to know why we have so many and how to bring the numbers down, and I am sure you can find their studies. I've only given you my educated guess on the subject.

"Level of exposure" might be hard to determine, except what a blood test shows at birth. The mother herself might be what is known as an unreliable witness on the subject, for obvious reasons.

 

msanthrope

(37,549 posts)
21. You bring up a good point about "level of exposure." Other than a blood test
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 07:57 PM
Sep 2013

at birth, and perhaps testing during pregnancy, you would not have an accurate measure. Nor could you really account for co-factors--of which, alcohol use is far more dangerous.



Warpy

(111,255 posts)
31. They very likely moved out of the area
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:01 PM
Sep 2013

That's the easiest explanation, along with parents flaking out on continuing the study after their kids were tested as normal time after time.

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
7. Not surprising at all. One of the constants we see with the rapid advancement of scientific
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:08 PM
Sep 2013

knowledge is that the more we learn, the more we come to discover how little we know about things we thought we understood.

surrealAmerican

(11,360 posts)
10. That sentence in bold says it all:
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 06:54 PM
Sep 2013
"Poverty is a more powerful influence on the outcome of inner-city children than gestational exposure to cocaine," Hurt said at her May lecture.


We need to address poverty in this country to make any real progress.
 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
37. BUT----The Big American Question about this is...
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:26 PM
Sep 2013

How can mucho money be made off of these findings?

If none can, then they must be invalidated to find a more profitable an$wer.

It's The American Way, these days.

 

nikto

(3,284 posts)
38. The quote...
Thu Sep 5, 2013, 09:28 PM
Sep 2013

"Poverty is a more powerful influence on the outcome of inner-city children than gestational exposure to cocaine,"
is like a declaration of war against Conservatism and neo-liberalism.

LWolf

(46,179 posts)
45. And we've known this for a long time.
Fri Sep 6, 2013, 08:07 AM
Sep 2013

At least, about educational outcomes, and those affect the rest of their lives.

Yet, the reform movement is all about bad teachers, bad schools, high-stakes testing, and privatization.

Then there's this:

http://www.rawstory.com/rs/2013/09/05/fox-news-guest-thats-a-teaching-moment-when-hungry-students-dont-get-school-lunches/

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
49. Despite the hysteria of the 90s, Crack Babies have proved...
Fri Sep 6, 2013, 02:42 PM
Sep 2013

..to be nowhere NEAR the Problem of Fetal Alcohol Syndrome.
There is where we find continuing horrors.

Latest Discussions»General Discussion»'Crack baby' study ends w...