Kerry has the unmitigated gall to tell Euopeans that this is their "Munich Moment"

[cali]

It's jaw dropping stuff. He really is full of shit and shameless. And yeah, he lies.

<snip>

On Saturday Mr. Kerry repeatedly drew parallels between the world's struggle to respond to the Assad regime and European appeasement of Nazi Germany during the Munich conference that took place at the outset of World War II.

"This is our Munich moment. This is our chance to join together and pursue accountability over appeasement," Mr. Kerry said. At several points in the news conference, he spoke in French to drive home his arguments with the French public, which mainly opposes military intervention in Syria.

<snip>

http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323623304579060692417802108.html

[dipsydoodle]

1. That should settle it with the French public

and turn them 100 % against military action instead of what was 70 % or so against it.

Never mind Munich - this might just be Kerry's Waterloo.

[tecelote]

63. And considering Minich, Syria is a far cry from challanging the world to war.

Unless we fuck it up.

[DisgustipatedinCA]

82. The "Unless we fuck it up" clause has been invoked several times in our history. n/t

[another_liberal]

80. I agree.

This kind of hyperbole will only strengthen resistance to joining a war on Syria. Europeans are far too sophisticated to buy this nonsense.

[KoKo]

2. Well...he's become Unhinged. Thinks he will get the "Old Crowd" to rally around.

Seriously...he's become so OTT... I wonder if he's got some kind of difficulty we don't know about. Something dogging him that he's letting loose with stuff like this.

He doesn't remember his "young self" or the votes he won in 2004 when many of us thought that election was stolen and fought in Ohio with lawsuits for years about the counties and that state that had "questionable voting tallies and folks not allowed to vote in the late hours election night?"

Who does he think he works for?

[warrant46]

5. He works for certain

industrialists

[ProSense]

3. Kerry and French Foreign Minister Appeal Together for Strike Against Syria

Kerry and French Foreign Minister Appeal Together for Strike Against Syria

By MICHAEL R. GORDON

PARIS — The two most vocal advocates of an international response to a chemical weapons attack in Syria teamed up on Saturday when Secretary of State John Kerry and his French counterpart made an unusual joint appeal for military action.

“France and the United States stand together,” said Laurent Fabius, the French foreign minister, who argued that a punishing military strike was needed to redraw the red line against the use of chemical weapons.

Mr. Kerry reached back to President John F. Kennedy’s meetings with President Charles de Gaulle and sought to touch a chord with wary Europeans over the need to stand up to the “slaughter” of civilians by delivering much of his presentation in fluent French.

<...>

French officials, for their part, have made clear that they do not want to go it alone against Syria and need a partner if action is taken...to obtain broader backing for a military operation from European nations, France’s president, François Hollande, said Friday that his government would not act militarily before United Nations inspectors presented their findings about the Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack near Damascus...The move was intended to secure a measure of support from Germany and other European nations, which are concerned that action will be taken without the approval of the United Nations Security Council because of the threat of a Russian veto...After Mr. Hollande’s remarks, the European Union issued a statement on Saturday at a meeting in Lithuania calling for a “clear and strong response,” but only after a “preliminary” report by United Nations inspectors is submitted “as soon as possible.”

- more -

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/08/world/europe/european-union-wants-un-report-before-any-military-action-in-syria.html

[cali]

8. He's LYING

they are not on board with strikes as he claims

<snip>

The EU statement was the bloc's strongest since the alleged chemical attack occurred on Aug. 21. Still, there was no explicit support for the idea of military strikes in the EU's statement, which called for a resumption of peace talks in Geneva.

<snip>

"The question we must ask ourselves is what should we do in Syria which is in the interests of the Syrian people," said Luxembourg Foreign Minister Jean Asselborn on Friday. "Is this truly in the interest of the Syrian people to want to carry out military strikes to punish Bashar al-Assad. I think not."

<snip>

[ProSense]

10. The French Foreign Minister is "lying"? n/t

[cali]

13. John Kerry is lying when he claims that

that all those countries back U.S. strikes. It says CLEARLY in the article that they have yet to do so.

He's desperate and it stinks.

[ProSense]

22. Kerry did not say the all back it. He's making the U.S. case. n/t

[rug]

15. That's not the position of the French President.

In an effort to obtain broader backing for a military operation from European nations, France’s president, François Hollande, said Friday that his government would not act militarily before United Nations inspectors presented their findings about the Aug. 21 chemical weapons attack near Damascus, Syria’s capital.

[ProSense]

28. He supports a strike, always did. He decided to wait until the UN findings come out.

He still supports a strike.

[rug]

29. That's not what your link said. Are you saying he'll attack regardless of the UN findings?

[ProSense]

31. Who said "regardless"?

France presented it's evidence. It supported a strike. Hollande pulled back recently and said he would wait for the UN report. This is part of the effort to shore up international support.

[cali]

33. shore up international support? You mean, create it

there is vanishingly little support for strikes despite all the admin's relentless arm twisting and Kerry's bullshit.

[ProSense]

37. Really?

"shore up international support? You mean, create it there is vanishingly little support for strikes despite all the admin's relentless arm twisting and Kerry's bullshit."

Support for action is growing.

VILNIUS, Lithuania (AP) — The European Union agreed on Saturday that the Aug. 21 chemical attack outside Damascus appears to have been the work of Syria’s regime, but that any potential military attack against it should wait for a U.N. inspectors’ report.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023617191

[cali]

38. bwahahaha. you're as desperate as John Kerry

and you keep heaping on the propaganda and false claims in the face of facts that show that you're just shoveling it.

[ProSense]

39. LOL! Can't refute that, can you?

You're pushing nonsense.

[cali]

40. I've refuted it repeatedly with links

Everyone can see how desperate you are and that you are denying reality.

you know damn well I've refuted it over and over in this thread.

The EU has NOT committed to backing military strikes let alone assisting the U.S. in any way militarily.

It's just beyond belief and pathetic that you keep insisting that they do.

[ProSense]

42. No, you haven't. You claim support is vanishing when in fact more countries

came out for holding Assad accountable.

First many of the G-20 members

International joint statement on Syria
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023610073

...and today, the EU:

EU: All info on Syria gas attack points to Assad
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023617191

[rug]

36. So France at present does not support a strike.

Thank you.

[dipsydoodle]

32. He actually back tracked yesterday

and will now let the French parliament decide.

The past has shown that Hollande is very good at opening his mouth without engaging his brain.

[cthulu2016]

4. He has now sunk from clown to caricature of a clown.

Who knows what fresh lows tomorrow will bring?

[cali]

11. parody of parody of parody

what a show!

[Scootaloo]

6. He used this line AGAIN?

For fuck's sake, John! Even Stephen King doesn't repeat his stories that much! STOP!

[DisgustipatedinCA]

84. Be nice. The minivan lady took him to a dark (and repetitive?) place.

And Kerry...I'm not sure what to think about him anymore. He's acting in a way I don't understand.

[malaise]

7. Kerry is clueless

He's losing it

[cali]

9. lost it. well and truly lost it. nothing much less to lose.

[ProSense]

12. This is you disgreeing with Kerry, and your characterization

clearly isn't shared by those he addressed.

[cali]

20. try reading, pro

Still, there was no explicit support for the idea of military strikes in the EU's statement, which called for a resumption of peace talks in Geneva.

JK is insisting that they are explicitly supporting military strikes.

He's a real piece of work. Gotta love that pile of shit about Munich.

[ProSense]

24. There are countries backing a strike, some will only back it with the UN on board. n/t

[cali]

30. No one is backing it at this time, not even France

here:

http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-202_162-57601834/eu-points-finger-at-assad-but-still-urges-caution-on-strike/

[ProSense]

34. I know what France's position is, and

you are trying to create the impression that Kerry said all countries back a U.S. unilateral strike. From the NYT link:

Mr. Kerry declined to comment on the Europeans’ insistence that any military action follow the submission of the inspectors’ preliminary report, adding that he would take up the question with Mr. Obama and top officials after he returned to Washington on Monday.

Kerry is making the case to other countries, which have stated they will support a strike only after the UN issues its report.

[dipsydoodle]

35. Not the UK

who may provide support but definately no military support. Chances are at present that France will do the same to reflect the will of their public.

[cali]

41. amazing the claims coming from the poster

in the face of facts that refute what she and Kerry are claiming. Just amazing.

[ProSense]

44. Who claimed the UK supports a strike? n/t

[cali]

45. European nations DO NOT SUPPORT a strike

http://www.chron.com/news/politics/article/US-runs-into-resistance-over-strike-on-Syria-4794641.php

[Logical]

67. Has Kerry named the countries in the "double digits"?? n-t

[Link Speed]

21. He's lost it

After this crap, he'll be riding the bench with Colin Powell - never to be allowed back into the game.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

92. Powell will never "be allowed back into the game"? Promise?

[Skittles]

51. he is not LOSING it

he simply knows who he works for

[David__77]

14. It's delusional propaganda.

He also says: "This is growing, not receding in terms of the global sense of outrage of what has happened."

I think what is growing is a sense of panic and isolation within the part of the administration that hatched this idea.

[leftstreet]

16. When do certain war criminals get a Nuremberg moment?

Yeah, yeah I know - off the table move on blah blah blah

Kerry sounds absolutely unhinged

[Link Speed]

17. He knows his political gig is over

After his tenure as SoS, he will be nothing. After this shit, he will be at Colin Powell Level of Nothing.

[KittyWampus]

18. Many DU'ers are going to end up looking really ignorant when Assad goes further.

For some it's willful ignorance, for others it's probably denial.

[cali]

23. your comments lead me to believe that that's something you're hankering for.

not just this one, but quite a few of them.

Ugh.

[KittyWampus]

25. No, and your comment lead me to believe you haven't done much research.

[cali]

27. oh, I'll put my knowledge of the situation well above yours, kitt

that was limp and lame as a response.

[blm]

78. YOU want the gassed people to have committed suicide in order

to protect your beloved narrative. Did you cry when more came out to pinpoint Assad as the source of the chemical weapons, cali?

[LittleBlue]

48. I guess British parliament isn't up to your intellectual level

They just don't know as much as you

[bluestate10]

54. Don't expect some people to admit that they were wrong if it turns out they are.

People on the Left who voted for Nader in 2000 blame everything but their vote for electing GW Bush and the subsequent hell that GW Bush put the country through. There have been numerous cases right here on DU where the purist crowd has been proved to be wrong, no apologies have ever been offered. It is tough for people that think highly of themselves to admit it when they are wrong.

[Cal Carpenter]

72. When in doubt, Nader

[HumansAndResources]

85. Who is Owed An Apology?? I'd Say the DLC-Candidate Supporting Primary Voters

Reagan / Bush / Clinton / Dubya / Obama has been an unbroken chain of:

1. Outsourcing, Union-Busting, and otherwise destruction of the working-class / former middle-class
2. Wars and Lies About the Wars

While I agree the 3rd Party route won't work, due to the "intelligent-design" of our Plutocratic System, that in no way excuses Democrats for selecting DLC Labor-Impoverishing tools of the Billionaires / MIC in the primaries. It was the DINO = DLC behavior of Bill Clinton that led to Nader-support in the first place. Remember the Battle in Seattle opposing Clinton's continued destruction of American Manufacturing?

No wonder he advocated for 100K more cops - given the massive poverty-increase that his policies were sure to bring to working-class America. Where to put those "former workers?" In for-profit prisons, of course.

I'm not suggesting that Obama supporters are bad people at heart. But anyone who researched the history of the Obama and Clinton campaign-advisors knew better than to vote for either. Neither should have been nominees of the party which allegedly stands for the working-class and peace. Unfortunately, most Democratic Primary voters believed the speeches and what the Billionaire-Owned Tee Vee programming told them to believe.

Let's not repeat that mistake in 2016, so we won't have to have the "3rd party" discussion, again.

[morningfog]

71. And when he "goes further" in response to our attacks?

How ignorant will you look?

[HumansAndResources]

83. "Assad goes further..." or the Transnational-Saudi-Wahhabi Rebels Go Further?

Who had a reason to "cross the red line?" Assad was winning. The UN Inspectors Assad invited in just arrived. The peace-conference was about to start. Put it all in context with the FACT that most of our "wars" were started with lies.

Hearst and the Mexican American War on through Judy W at the NYT for Iraq - yet threads with links going outside of "Yellow Journalism" of the Billionaire-owned Mainstream Media are locked for being "non-credible." Can anyone explain why / how the Billionaire's Media is credible? Their own reporters on-scene post stories detailing the Rebels use of CW, and they refuse to publish.

Remember CNN's extensive report on the Bahrain massacres that went into the "round file." Well, of course - that is where OUR (sic) naval base is. With the help of the Saudi Military, the "freedom activists" there were shot, tortured, and otherwise crushed - an easy feat given they were unarmed, peaceful demonstrators, In Stark Contrast to the Western-Backed Wahhabi-Terrorists in Syria.

Anyone want to guess what TPTB in this country would do to an armed insurrection? Can you say, "Domestic Terrorists?"

[cthulu2016]

19. Assad's demand that the Czech Republic be made part of Syria cannot stand!

[LostOne4Ever]

26. It would be nice

if both sides of this debate would lay off the lame and faulty WWII analogies and tried communicating with each other as adults.

Failing that how about an air guitar contest?

[frylock]

58. both sides?

[LostOne4Ever]

61. I got to attempt to be objective here

Even if I do feel one side is doing it more than another.

>.>
Not saying which
<.<


/tries to hide peace sign in signature

[cali]

43. I can't imagine that this pile of shit that Kerry is shoveling will

be well received by Europeans. It's incredibly insulting.

I know what I'd like to say to him.

[840high]

66. Beond insulting. I can't

believe he said this.

[cigsandcoffee]

46. Saying 'Double Digits' sounds kind of pathetic. n/t

[cherokeeprogressive]

53. Much like saying "Under $100!" when the price is $99.99

These fucking people never cease to amaze me.

[polly7]

47. The Nazi references usually only come out when someone is really desperate.

That means to me their 'proof' of an Assad gas attack is weak or nonexistent, or they'd be able to use it.

[Peregrine Took]

49. Purple prose at its most purplest! Pathetic. n/t

[bluestate10]

50. Kerry is closer to being right than his detractors are.

Europe stood by and watched while Serbia raped and slaughtered innocent people in Bosnia and Kosovo. That situation wasn't the first time Europe stood by while monsters killed innocents. Kerry has it just right on Europe.

[cali]

52. baloney

Leave the Munich Pact Out of This, John Kerry

<snip>

Which is why I was disappointed to see that Secretary Kerry reportedly trotted it out in a meeting over the weekend with Congressional Democrats, telling them that the United States faced a “Munich moment” in deciding whether to support military action against Syria. It was a page right out of the neocon playbook. Look, it’s fine to highlight the risks of inaction. But it should hardly need pointing out that there is a yawning chasm of difference between a dictator poised to overrun Europe and one who doesn’t even control large portions of his own country.

<snip>

http://prospect.org/article/leave-munich-pact-out-john-kerry

[ProSense]

57. That's your rebuttal?

Kerry knows what he's talking about. Someone saying it's fear mongering is an opinion.

[bluestate10]

62. Not so.

Europeans are notorious for signing documents that they are unwilling to defend in a crunch. Virtually all, if not all countries in Europe signed on to the chemical weapons ban. Not a brutal dictator has used chemical weapons and is thumbing his nose at the international community. The last time such a thing happened a US President and Europe shrunk from the challenge of facing down the dictator, the US ultimately would take on that dictator after falsely being led into what would be a costly war. Assad must be stopped in his tracks, I prefer diplomacy, but if a military strike is the only way to start Assad's end, I support that end.

[HumansAndResources]

87. You Prefer the Wahhabis, Or is there some "peace and freedom" faction I have yet to hear about?

AFAIK, the Europeans have not violated the chemical weapons ban - except the Brits selling the precursor chemicals to Assad, allegedly. That agreement does not commit them to attacking nations who allegedly use CW - which is why it is "legal" to use Tear-Gas domestically, but not legal in an international war. No CS is not Sarin, but the same "international law" bans both in international-warfare, but permits their use domestically. And nevermind the lack of evidence the attack in question was Assad's (sucidial?) move.

I'm not recalling your "last time such a thing happened" scenario. Are you referring to a US-backed dictator using CW - like Saddam Hussein, put in power by the CIA, then double-crossed with the Kuwaiti trick to justify the military bases "required' for Western-Hegemony, as outlined in Brzezenski's "Global Chessboard" and the neo-cons' PNAC papers? If you haven't read those, and the history of Western Proxy-Wars, time to get started.

[ProSense]

59. Kerry went the diplomatic route with Assad

He knows him. He has spoken to him often. There was an attempt to ridicule him for trying diplomacy.

On the issue of Assad and what he is capable of, Kerry knows exactly what he's talking about.

[bluestate10]

65. The options with Assad have narrowed to the current set of options. As long as

Russia blocks every diplomatic solution, a military strike becomes the only viable option. A lot of people talk about the US increasing aid to displaced civilians, but they don't explain how delivery of that aid will be possible with a brutal dictator leveling everything and using poison gas against civilians and religious crazies on the other side wildly killing and kidnapping. Russia could end this by talking Assad out of Syria, but Russia has continuously ignored all entreaties to use it's influence with Assad to create an opening for stopping the killing in Syria.

[HumansAndResources]

88. And China Also Does Not Support This? And define "viable" please.

Why does everyone keep leaving China out? Would it be to complicated an equation if not reduced to "USA vs USSR ... er, I mean Russia.

And what the heck does "viable option" mean in this context?

Yeah, Russia backs Assad - where their naval base is, and the US backs Bahrain, where their naval base is. The difference is, Russia is not funding and arming terrorist-armies in Bahrin. So tell me who the warmaker is, given that reality.

Absent a proxy-army of terrorists, the "roundup and torture" of the peaceful-protesters in Bahrian was an easy gig, with Saudi help, of course - the same Saudis funding the Wahhabists in Syria.

[HumansAndResources]

86. Which Monsters in Yugoslavia ?? That War Was Based On More Lies and Half-Truths

The Croats (former Nazi allies) and the Wahhabis committed their shares of war-crimes but, as usual, only the killings by the anti-Western-Transnational faction, the Serbs, In Response To A Western-Initiated War and Croat massacres and "cleansings" were put on Tee Vee for Americans to see.

Most of those "war-crimes" were small-scale skermishes, where villages were taken-out in Vietnam fashion; these killings were committed by all sides, as they attempted to "consolidate territory" in what was termed "ethnic cleansing" - but that term was only used in Western Media when it was the Serbs doing it. The biggest "ethnic cleansing" of all was "Operation Storm," which was carried out by the Croats with US Military "advisers" and equipment.

I really wish people would learn the complete history of that war, and the Western Transnationals reason for breaking up the existing peace-treaty to start it - to get those "public owned resources and infrastructure" into private hands.

To Put this in Context:
Why didn't the West stop the slaughter of between 1/2 and 1 Million Indonesians as Suharto took power? Because the US Backed that operation. East Timor - same story. And yet, the man who backed Suharto during East Timor, Henry Kissinger, who should most certainly be in a prison cell, still calls the shots for the State Dept / Natl "security" (of Billionaires overseas-investments / stolen-resources).
http://www.cfr.org/world/remarks-national-security-adviser-jones-45th-munich-conference-security-policy/p18515

How can anyone believe what this gang says?
How can anyone support this gang's latest war?

[dflprincess]

55. And where was Kerry and his "Munich moment" when he voted to allow Bush to

start a war of aggression?

[bluestate10]

68. Kerry was exercising his "Munich moment" when he voted for war against a dictator.

The problem was that he and a lot of other people were lied to. Kerry is looking directly at intelligence and getting a chance to ask direct questions of the CIA and military intelligence people, that is a different circumstance than he was in when Bush/Cheney/Rums field and company suppressed intelligence that disproved the view that they wanted to push. It comes down to who a person trusts, I trust that this President and Kerry are telling the truth, both saw and understand the consequences of not telling the truth when the choice of war or peace has to be made.

[dflprincess]

74. Bull

22 other Senators figured out they were being lied to by Bush and most of us here knew it.

[avebury]

56. Then shouldn't the US be demanding that the International Criminal

Court be charging the UK with war crimes for selling Syria the chemicals in the first place?

[bluestate10]

73. Can you prove that Britain sold the chemicals? Are you a trained chemist?

I can buy two substances that are harmless and then buy three materials from a grocery store or pharmacy and create chemicals that will sicken or kill anyone that gets exposed to them. The majority of people that can do such a thing DON'T. How can you say that Assad didn't buy harmless chemicals from Britain, if he in fact bought them and didn't get other ingredients for chemical weapons elsewhere?

There is so much dis-information flying around at this time. People grab onto what they want to believe.

[avebury]

77. Revealed: UK Government let British company export nerve gas chemicals to Syria

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/politics/revealed-uk-government-let-british-company-export-nerve-gas-chemicals-to-syria-8793642.html



http://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2013/sep/02/chemical-export-syria-uk

Chemical export licences for Syria – just another UK deal with a dictator


http://www.dailyrecord.co.uk/news/uk-world-news/revealed-britain-sold-nerve-gas-2242520

Revealed: Britain sold nerve gas chemicals to Syria 10 months after 'civil unrest'


Apparently there is a lot of discussion of it in the UK. Perhaps why Parliament voted against attacking Syria?

[Moses2SandyKoufax]

60. John Kerry and John McCain are just two examples of what happens

when old pathetic old men can't find their way off stage. Politics, and the country will be a lot better off once these two relics are finally retired.

[FarCenter]

64. The real parallel with the Nazi is the Big Lie

All this was inspired by the principle--which is quite true within itself--that in the big lie there is always a certain force of credibility; because the broad masses of a nation are always more easily corrupted in the deeper strata of their emotional nature than consciously or voluntarily; and thus in the primitive simplicity of their minds they more readily fall victims to the big lie than the small lie, since they themselves often tell small lies in little matters but would be ashamed to resort to large-scale falsehoods. It would never come into their heads to fabricate colossal untruths, and they would not believe that others could have the impudence to distort the truth so infamously. Even though the facts which prove this to be so may be brought clearly to their minds, they will still doubt and waver and will continue to think that there may be some other explanation. For the grossly impudent lie always leaves traces behind it, even after it has been nailed down, a fact which is known to all expert liars in this world and to all who conspire together in the art of lying.

—Adolf Hitler , Mein Kampf, vol. I, ch. X

[jsr]

70. Craven liar

[kiva]

75. A few days ago I rec'ced a thread

saying something to the effect that Kerry wasn't a terrible person, just misguided. I want to recall that rec, not because I think he is evil but because I have no desire to recommend anything about him after this statement.

[MisterP]

81. you just go back to the post and hit the big red-yellow "undo" button where the "rec" used to be

[AzDar]

76. Mr. Kerry sure wants to get his war on ...

[SylviaD]

79. What's happened to Kerry since 2004?! n/t

[Generic Other]

89. swiftboated himself

Yellow caked like Colin Powell.

[Spider Jerusalem]

90. Christ. Can people actually fucking learn what "appeasement" is?

Before bandying about the term to describe something that fucking well isn't appeasement? Are we planning to give Assad the Golan Heights back if he'll stop gassing people? No? Then it fucking well isn't appeasement. Fucksake.

[bemildred]

91. I don't think Chamberlain at Munich is quite the analogy he is looking for either.

But we dispensed with reason some time back.