A PBS story today says that the unemployment numbers are wrong because a lot of people

[pnwmom]

are working at irregular contract or free-lance jobs and that's the lifestyle they prefer. So when they're asked if they worked last week and they say no, it could be they're just on a short break between gigs -- not really unemployed.

What do you think? Is that a crock? Are a third of people really working in this irregular way because they want to?

[KatyaR]

1. Smells like bullshit.

nt

[PDJane]

2. Smells like justification.

[nadinbrzezinski]

3. I am a freelancer

I would refer full time work

[madrchsod]

8. what would you give up?

writing here or your other couple of gigs?

[nadinbrzezinski]

9. Here, this does not pay any bills

And fiction writing is fun, but is not paying yet either

[NYC_SKP]

4. I don't think it's a crock. For survival people have to lie about income.

I just did the calculation today.

My COBRA insurance payment for one person exceeds all of what I would take home working 40/week at minimum wage.

I could have free rent and food and utilities and still not be able to afford insurance.

As more and more employers are cutting back hours, a person has to make money and avoid witholdings because showing income means no subsidies, no assistance.

The lower and middle classes are increasingly being forced into working under the table.

[JI7]

5. wouldn't they take that into account ?

[madrchsod]

6. yes and no.....

some people do like to work in the underground economy. the percentage of people who do this is a very small percentage of the overall work force. others prefer to work 40hrs a week but due to many factors have to work in the underground economy. the employment numbers are never truly accurate.

[Jenoch]

7. I believe the unemployment numbers

are wrong. I think the numbers of unemployed is much HIGHER than the official rate. There are people who are unemployed who are no longer counted.

[Puzzledtraveller]

14. I'm a food stamp and medicaid caseworker

We are as busy today as we have ever been. If anyone really thinks things are improving they need to spend a day with me.

[Jenoch]

23. I believe you.

I know some people who need at least medical help but are afraid of the eventual bill collectors.

[Lady Freedom Returns]

33. I know what you mean... in a way.

I have seen whole families living in cars and in ragged tents in back wood areas. They are just trying to survive, most of the time, the loss of everything just because they loss a job.

Their are many that are out on the street right now due to loosing a job. Some even have a College education. Many are US Vet.

There are so much that people don't know about those they see on the side of the road or fown those alleys.

[zappaman]

10. I am a freelancer.

And I refer it that way.

[pnwmom]

11. Do you have a sense that there are more people making that choice these days?

As many as a third of workers?

[zappaman]

13. In my industry, yes.

Work ebbs and flows.
Rather than staff up when busy and give people contracts, they would rather hire a freelancer.
Since I get medical under my wife's plan, it works for me.
And I get to take time off here and there.
Although, I'm good at what I do, so I work almost as much as a permanent employee.
No complaints.

[hfojvt]

35. why should it have to be a third?

Has the labor force shrunk that much?

But people who are working freelance and are between gigs would not be counted as unemployed unless they were looking for work.

And some of that depends on their income/lifestyle. Imagine a self-employed person working as a contractor. Suppose they can survive and live "well" working just 8 months a year. In that case, they would be fine, even with a few unemployed weeks as long as they picked up another decent contract at the end of that dry spell.

But I do not think there are very many people who are that lucky. My own experience with being self-employed has been the reverse - very long hours with very low pay, but I was retail, not a contractor.

[jmowreader]

12. Those people would be considered self-employed, not UNemployed

[Dawson Leery]

15. +1

[pnwmom]

21. The PBS piece indicated they would have been counted as unemployed.

Maybe they're wrong.

[jmowreader]

34. Freelancers (at least the ones I know) have business licenses

You've got to file sales tax reports with the state, fill out Schedule C, all that good stuff when you freelance - at least if you're doing it legally. Not sure why PBS would claim those folks are unemployed because legitimate freelance is single-employee small business.

Now...guys working under the table, they could say they're "unemployed" when they don't have work, but that's something else entirely.

[pnwmom]

37. I think it was because the wording was something like

"did you work for pay last week"?

[indie9197]

36. I am in that category. I draw unemployment between jobs because I am an employee

and my employer pays into the unemployment insurance. The sequestration has really screwed my livelihood. I depend on federally funded contracts in the environmental remediation field. In the past, if I worked 8-10 months a year, I wouldn't even bother filing for unemployment. In 2013, I will be lucky to work 4 months and I depend on it.

[lumpy]

16. I have no idea how many might be working in that manner, but would think that some people

prefer unusual work days. I know 2 people that work irregular schedules; one is working 2 weeks on, 2 weeks off; the other when ever work is available for the same employer. Maybe this is not unusual.

[Throd]

17. I have been a freelancer for the last 10 years.

It has its advantages and disadvantages

[sendero]

18. While they speculate ..

... the data-driven fact is most of the new "jobs" are mcJobs that pay way less than the jobs they are replacing.

this is a demonstrable fact based on real data, unlike the idiotic speculation put forth here.

[KT2000]

19. that is pretty ridiculous

of anyone to say such a thing. For the personal survey the respondent is asked if they are actively looking for work if they say unemployed and further probing questions asked to ascertain status.

http://www.bls.gov/news.release/empsit.toc.htm

[reformist2]

20. They may not mind not working full-time, but they probably do mind being poor!

[MH1]

31. Many freelancers are not poor.

In IT the hourly pay for a contractor can be quite good, depending on the specialty of course.

I knew a guy who freelanced who made in 2 days what I made in 5 as a full time consultant. I'm sure he retired at around 55.

[reformist2]

39. Nice. But alas, we can't all be IT guys. Even talented freelancers, consultants will be driven down.

Unionization isn't just something fast-food workers need. Even the best-paid, most educated are going to need it.

[treestar]

22. I would think they would say they were working

How are self employed people going to answer the question? That's essentially what they are.

The self employed would be counted as "unemployed?" That would make no sense.

I'm self employed and at times don't make much money. But there's no way I would say I was "unemployed."

[mwrguy]

24. any excuse to beat up on Obama

[aikoaiko]

25. Just an anecdote...

My good friend's wife lost an in-house talent development position with a big tech company and after 2 years is now making almost as much as she did with the company through consultant gigs. Now she's dropping off and picking up her kids at school and likes that.

I think a certain percentage of professionals are making it on free-lance or consultancy positions and have learned enjoy the benefits if they can manage the small business way of life.

[pnwmom]

27. And it probably helps if they have a spouse with full-time benefits like health insurance. n/t

[aikoaiko]

29. Yes, and she did.

[Warpy]

26. It's crap

They only count people receiving unemployment benefits for the hard number. The U6 is a guesstimate of how many people are underemployed, making lousy wages at part time work waiting for the economy to get better.

Some people who are just starting consultant businesses might be counted in the U-6 but not many.

[bhikkhu]

28. I doubt that its a big enough shift to affect the statistics

people have always freelanced, and plenty of people work only on and off, as finances allow.

The biggest shift by far in the employment numbers is in the 16-19 year old segment, where there is about a 20% shift (over the last 20 years or so) out of jobs and into college. That's partially made up for by older people hanging onto work longer rather than retiring. Its easy to see that in a few years things could balance out well. (Though optimism is entirely a personal choice).

[Brewinblue]

30. Crock

Real, meaningful numbers are far worse than anything they will report.

[hunter]

32. Why don't they ask people if they'd quit what they are doing...

... for a good full time job that pays a living wage with good benefits?

That ought to be the true measure of employment.

I'd sure as hell say "yes."

My brother is a contractor. After the housing market collapsed his family was briefly on food stamps. I think he'd like a regular job too at this point. Anyone think the many older people working "part-time" in Big-Box stores don't want regular full time jobs too???

The unemployment numbers are complete fabrications, and it's not because any significant number of people "prefer" to work as they are.

[jmowreader]

38. How many people who already have FT jobs would say yes to that?