Let's not celebrate prematurely...

[kentuck]

There was good news today. But the game is not over. In fact, it has not yet begun.

Russia and Syria have agreed to put Syrian chemical weapons under international control. At least, that is what they said today. But are they serious?

Or are they trying to buy time? And for what reasons?

If the US and Russia can work out this deal, who's to say they can't work out something with Snowden??

But it is not yet time to start waving the pom-poms. The crisis is not over.

But today looks a lot better than yesterday and the President looks a helluva lot better today than anyone predicted yesterday.

Teddy Roosevelt comes to mind: Speak softly but carry a big stick. That seems to be the diplomacy that President Obama is using. It might work?

[VanillaRhapsody]

1. said the Glenn Greenwald supporter...

[kentuck]

3. And what does Glen Greenwald have to do with Syria?

Can you explain?

Or are you just pissed that they didn't drop the bombs?

[VanillaRhapsody]

5. ooohhhhh that hurt....wow..just wow...

I think I am very aware of which side is pissed today!

[kentuck]

8. I don't think you are as aware as you think you are...

I think "my side" is very pleased if this can be settled without bombs. What does your side think?

[VanillaRhapsody]

12. Your side is pissed that Obama won yet again....

My side is the side behind the guy that knows what he is doing...

Oh ye of little faith.


But I am sure you'll forget all about this victory and continue your campaign of "Obama is a poopyhead" at the first sign of trouble...

[kentuck]

21. Like I said...

Don't wave your pom-poms just yet. I consider this a victory for my side if the bombs are not dropped. I'm sure you would want to claim victory under either circumstance, so long as your guy was doing the dropping? Right?

[VanillaRhapsody]

27. isn't he YOUR guy too?

Or are you just another FauxMerican posting here on DU?

[kentuck]

30. Why don't you go change your panties?

You're starting to smell...

[VanillaRhapsody]

34. struck a nerve did I?

busted!

[kentuck]

46. You are a joke.

[VanillaRhapsody]

49. awwwww bless your widdle heart...

poor baby...

[dflprincess]

47. Seriously?

Do you have any idea how long Kentuck has been here and because he doesn't agree with Obama about this you call him a "FauxMerican"?

Blind alliegence to anyone or anything is a bad thing - we used to mock the Bushbots for it. Try thinking for yourself, you might find it refreshing.

[kentuck]

50. Thanks dflprincess.

This poster is a little hard to take seriously. Unfortunately, he/she has several fellow travelers here.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023623281

[VanillaRhapsody]

59. Poor disappointed baby...

"curses foiled again huh"?

[kentuck]

62. Read up on "loyalty oaths"...

Most folks here don't take those. You should reconsider your position.

[Hell Hath No Fury]

70. You are a very ugly poster.

eom.

[840high]

58. He hasn't won anything yet.

[David__77]

23. I'm happy.

My objective was to oppose US aggression against Syria. Each day that passes without the US raining hell down on Syria is a good day.

[VanillaRhapsody]

29. but see...you have to be willing to follow through to even have this opportunity...

that's foresight

[kentuck]

33. lol...

What a bunch of bs!!

[VanillaRhapsody]

36. Yeah...you wish YOU had Obama's nerves of steel...

or half his balls!

[Nuclear Unicorn]

10. I don't even know what this means.

[neverforget]

13. WTF? you sure like to stir shit up

[VanillaRhapsody]

16. Especially when I am right!

I have every right to gloat...I took on all comers for days....

You mad too bro?

[neverforget]

20. Gloat about what?

[VanillaRhapsody]

22. that I was right to stick by Obama of course!

underestimate him at your peril HAS been my battle cry!

[neverforget]

26. Right about what? Obama hasn't won anything yet regarding Syria

[VanillaRhapsody]

32. He won an offer by Putin and Assad....

underestimate at your peril...

You do understand that Obama spoke to Putin at the G20 right?

[neverforget]

41. an offer that has not been accepted and if it is, has to be worked out.

It's not a win yet. And if it does happen, it's a win for more than just Obama but for the American people who are tired of war, the Syrians that would have been killed in a strike and lessens the possibility of this war being widened.

I would be really happy if this were to work out because it accomplishes our goal without killing. But that has yet to happen.

[VanillaRhapsody]

43. Will you apologize for insulting John Kerry?

[neverforget]

45. I never insulted Kerry. Apologize please.

As a matter of fact, when some were insulting how Kerry looks, I defended him against those attacks.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3607376

So please, apologize.

[neverforget]

57. Still waiting for the apology.........

[neverforget]

69. 24 hours later and no apology

[Marr]

71. That would take character.

That particular poster *is* one, but *has* none.

[neverforget]

72. Up thread he talks about balls....yet no apology from him.

hmmmmm

[NoOneMan]

48. Ok, I get that you're gloating....

I must remark, you interpreting this bumbling incoherent diplomatic jaunt to and from the brink of war as some political victory for Obama is absurdly incoherent in its own right (explaining rightly your incredibly incoherent responses to people in this thread). I'm not sure how you can perceive of reality in such a manner or work to enforce this strange view on others, but I must urge, 'get help'.

I am happy that maybe less civilians might die from US bombs, but I am still a bit apprehensive. Other than that, this entire thing was egg on the face of the US government and the acting administration from any sane viewpoint. I do give them props on jumping on the least embarrasing "out" thats come up (which Bush probably would of never done), but there are limits to spin

[Blue_In_AK]

68. You know, VanillaRhapsody,

sometimes you are not a very nice person. Glen Greenwald has nothing to do with this, and I think all of us are just relieved that a strike on Syria has been averted for the moment. Why do you have to gloat?

[NoOneMan]

2. "That seems to be the diplomacy that President Obama is using"

Threatening war is speaking softly?

[kentuck]

4. No.

That's carrying the big stick.

[NoOneMan]

7. The big stick is supposed to be having an effective, standing military

Speaking softly normally refers to having coherent diplomacy. In this case, the US was raving mad in the corner swinging its stick around until it ran out of gas.

[kentuck]

9. "Unbelievably small"...

Kerry did have his incoherent moments, I would agree. He may have accidentally stumbled on a solution?

[NoOneMan]

15. Maybe its an accident

Who knows? I really don't know what to think anymore. And I don't know if we're all out of the clear yet at all.

Another incoherency is this "out". Assad crossed the line and is comparable to Hitler, but he gets away scott free under this deal? That doesn't sound like a red line. That doesn't sound like how we should treat today's Hitler. Frankly, the solution is embarrassing, but less so than a war or simply dropping it completely.

[VanillaRhapsody]

17. Of course YOU don't you are stunned at this turn of events..

its almost as if Obama gut punched you huh?

[NoOneMan]

25. huh?

How can he gut punch anyone when he is busy tripping over his incoherent foreign policy.

Look, I'm happy that this will avert a war. Its still an embarrassment for the US and that administration, though less so than many, many alternatives. Obama painted himself in a lose-lose-lose corner. This is the least stupid thing to do. I hope it works out.

[Thinkingabout]

35. Obama did not order CW to be used, he just did not agree they should have been used.

[NoOneMan]

39. Just about everyone isn't cool with all sorts of weapons being used on civilians

But the sane response isn't to drop even more weapons on civilians (creating a death toll of perhaps 100X as high as the acts we are "punishing&quot . So yeah, the US definitely painted itself in a corner

[Thinkingabout]

55. Are you sure they were not working for an agreement while working the steps to get

Congress to authorize strikes? No, just covering ground which was required to cover. Obama took this to Congress, he chose the proper path. This does nit paint himself in a corner.

[NoOneMan]

60. We can pretend up any scenario I guess

Your imagination and loyalty are your only limits

[Thinkingabout]

63. I can walk down the street and chew gun at the same time, this administration has proven they can do

Do several things at a time. I am a dove, I am happy at the prospect of settling differences through diplomatic means.

[VanillaRhapsody]

14. Hey Bro...you mad?

The stick ran outta gas? WE never had to even use it....

[NoOneMan]

18. By "it" I was referring to the US government

The lunatic in the corner realized no one was buying its bullshit and fell down exhausted. Which is better than bombing people. So hurray to that.

[Thinkingabout]

6. Working out a deal with Snowden is easy, he needs to return to the US and face the charges against

Him. If he is found innocent then so be it. If he is fount guilty then he needs to serve his sentence. If he had followed protocol he would be in good shape but this is not the path he chose. So far revealing his information which had been revealed before and Bush spoke of phone call collecting in 2005 has resulted in charges being brought against him. He has chosen his path, now he needs tobwalk the path he has chosen.

[kentuck]

11. Hijacker!

[Thinkingabout]

24. Yes you could say Snowden is like a hijacker, he hijacked his life and now he has to live with his

Decision.

[snappyturtle]

19. I hope this works out but..............

what if the rebels have chemical weapons too?

Actually, I think the turning over of the chemical weapons
would have been the first mandate put forward by the
U.S. at the UN rather than strike, strike, strike and this
run up of the military.

[Thinkingabout]

28. If Syria knew there was a treaty they would not have chosen to stockpile them.

[snappyturtle]

37. Syria knows there's a chemical weapons ban and that they

chose not to sign. The U.S. signed but didn't keep from
using depleted uranium in Iraq.

[NoOneMan]

40. Or White Phosphorus

[snappyturtle]

42. Yep, that too! Awful. nt

[Thinkingabout]

54. I realize Syria did not sign the treaty but had to know it is not acceptable. To have killed

400 children is also not acceptable either.

[snappyturtle]

65. Look, since you brought it up, we're no angels in the

preservation of young lives...as I said up thread plus we
contributed big time to the loss of 500,000 in Iraq with
the sanctions in the 90's. I think we are very hypocritical
and the world knows it but we have that big stick thing
going for us.

The second point is....we're yet to know for certain that
it was Assad that used the chemical weapons. There are
some nasty rebel types in Syria. Just sayin'..........

[Cleita]

31. Ya never know. Snowden might be on the table

If I were Prez, I would offer to keep our hands off Snowden for the year of his asylum as well as any sanctions against Russia we might have entertained doing in exchange for Putin getting Assad to behave until there can be a cease fire and peace talks.

[VanillaRhapsody]

38. there is another theory that doesn't have anything to do with "Saint Snoswden"

that is that Russia wants Assad in power to prevent that natural gas pipeline from being built....

But then I am not living in the "snowden/greenwald/assange bubble"

[MNBrewer]

44. you are completely out of control

[The Straight Story]

52. Why not, people were attacking before any strikes were made

[BlueCheese]

53. I don't think Syria agreed to put their weapons under international control.

All they said was that they "welcomed" the proposal. I'm not sure what that means, exactly, but it isn't that.

[Thinkingabout]

61. Assad has done a lot of worming and squirming, he does not want the strikes. If it is true

Russia wants the gas line then they can convince Assad to give up the CW's.

[pnwmom]

56. I agree. While I am cautiously optimistic, this is still early in what will no doubt

be a long, complicated process.

[Samantha]

64. I believe this was a political move by Putin to humiliate President Obama internationally

I believe many people drive themselves crazy trying to reason through analytically a situation which is not logical in nature. In the arena of governance, the situation is often merely political and thus lacks the inherent potential to be reasoned through rationally. In short, politics defies reason.

A good example of this was during the 2000 election campaign when Al Gore was questioned in Tennessee about potential layoffs at TVA. He remarked to the voter there were no planned layoffs at TVA. Just a few days later, TVA announced upcoming layoffs.

This was not a matter of Al Gore being uninformed. This happened because some influential Republican in or from Tennessee made a phone call to someone who contacted HR at TVA and influenced that organization to make that announcement. I have of proof of this but I have observed this type of phenomenon in play many times over the last few decades.

The announcement of the layoffs infuriated so many Tennesseans, after Gore had denied this was in the works, many stated calling him a liar. People who had been considering voting for him did an about-face on that consideration.

There have been some shall we say uncomplimentary remarks about Russia and Putin recently in the US press. All Putin would have to do is to tell Syria officials to accept the offer of surrendering its WMD's or he would be withdrawing Russia's support of Syria in the face of US threats to attack. Syria would have no choice but to agree. Putin would win an immediate international wave of accolades for diplomatically avoiding a war (or shall I shall strategic bombing) on Syria by the United States. And President Obama would look like a bumbling foreign policy leader. My guess: even if this doesn't work out, Putin is probably sitting over there laughing right now for making President Obama and the United States look to the world like incompetent foreign affairs idiots.

That's my take.

Sam

[kentuck]

66. I don't know about that Sam...?

Syria has been a friend and ally of Russia for a long time. But Putin is a realist, if nothing else. He could see that Obama was being put into a situation where he might have to bomb Syria out of political necessity. He may have decided that he would prefer to have a weakened Assad in power than to not have anyone in power? There had to be pressure on Putin to make a decision, I would think? I hope this works out without more bombs and bloodshed and loss of limbs and poison gas attacks...

[Samantha]

67. Well I don't "know" either kentuck but I think you might be giving Putin

a little bit more credit than he deserves. I believe he, Putin, was in a somewhat difficult situation but he chose to try to wiggle out of it by turning it into a political international embarrassment to President Obama. That is just my feeling, not my "facts." ....

Sam