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devils chaplain

(602 posts)
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:35 PM Sep 2013

I find the whole emotional attachment/opposition thing to politicians to be kind of weird...

... and counterproductive. Then again I'm the type of person who would rather stare at the wall in a Dr.'s office waiting room than flip through a People magazine or US Weekly. Could I be the only one?

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I find the whole emotional attachment/opposition thing to politicians to be kind of weird... (Original Post) devils chaplain Sep 2013 OP
Agreed. Union Scribe Sep 2013 #1
Hi Scribe, keep writing... AFL-CIO member here. :) n/t devils chaplain Sep 2013 #7
Thanks! UAW here. Solidarity :D Union Scribe Sep 2013 #16
then why would you hang around a site called "Democratic Underground"? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #2
Policies and ideas interest me. How quaint, I guess? n/t devils chaplain Sep 2013 #4
That's what I like too - not into the personality thing... polichick Sep 2013 #6
Lucky! And also very understandable. :) n/t devils chaplain Sep 2013 #10
Despite my many policy disagreements with President Obama, I find him likable enough nomorenomore08 Sep 2013 #12
I find him likable too - he's a lovely person really - but I still take it... polichick Sep 2013 #14
That's how I roll with every pol, one policy/issue at a time.... Little Star Sep 2013 #51
Me too... and Obama's a big enough man with big enough duties to not care whether or not... devils chaplain Sep 2013 #15
+1 nomorenomore08 Sep 2013 #8
+1 You wouldn't think that would be a mysterious answer, woo me with science Sep 2013 #20
At one time right here on DU, that would not have been a mysterious answer. QC Sep 2013 #37
Absolutely, and by design. woo me with science Sep 2013 #45
There's more here pipi_k Sep 2013 #42
That reminds me of all the households that had pictures of JFK... polichick Sep 2013 #3
You mean like having pictures of Presidents in their pockets? VanillaRhapsody Sep 2013 #5
Like having JFK on the wall next to the Pope and a crucifix. polichick Sep 2013 #9
I think VR is a little young to remember that. nt Llewlladdwr Sep 2013 #11
You still see it in movies - those set designers remember. polichick Sep 2013 #13
I just got done reading... devils chaplain Sep 2013 #19
That's a cool setup. King once said the worst thing that can happen to a writer is... polichick Sep 2013 #21
Feh! Even when messed up, they're good -- The Shining, Shawshank Redemption, and The Green Mile... devils chaplain Sep 2013 #23
coming from an Irish and Catholic background, I kind of get the JFK thing markiv Sep 2013 #18
I can too, and Obama for African Americans, and hopefully soon Elizabeth Warren for women... devils chaplain Sep 2013 #22
Hell, they tried to LOOK like Jack and Jackie. Spitfire of ATJ Sep 2013 #32
While out walking through the neighborhood I lived in back in the '90s deutsey Sep 2013 #39
I had one pipi_k Sep 2013 #43
I'm with you there. I get attached to policies, not people. last1standing Sep 2013 #17
People get all gooey when public servants become celebrities...rather than public servants. Tierra_y_Libertad Sep 2013 #24
lol, du is on fire tonight! quinnox Sep 2013 #25
People would do anything to glorify their idols in hopes of sharing the reflected glory. jsr Sep 2013 #26
Are you trying to tell me there is something weird about this thread: DesMoinesDem Sep 2013 #27
There was a poster at Freeperville named Sniffles OnyxCollie Sep 2013 #30
Wow! That is unbelievable. That is the stuff of tabloids. cui bono Sep 2013 #33
I will never forget when the head BOGger revealed QC Sep 2013 #38
I do oppose most of what Obama does. I think most of his policies help corporations more than they liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #28
It is more than just weird nadinbrzezinski Sep 2013 #29
I think you're right. I'm always tempted to say 'it's always been so', but Marr Sep 2013 #31
I think the decline in the quality of media plays a large part. cui bono Sep 2013 #34
And just a lack of critical thinking tblue Sep 2013 #36
At the gym, if someone left a People mag tblue Sep 2013 #35
You're not the only one JHB Sep 2013 #40
I'm the type that brings my own book to the Dr's office. Bluenorthwest Sep 2013 #41
Sounds like pipi_k Sep 2013 #44
I think it's just kind of human nature bigwillq Sep 2013 #46
I don't operate that way... devils chaplain Sep 2013 #48
Even worse is describing relations between countries in terms of friendship and enmity FarCenter Sep 2013 #47
Agreed, except I find the cult of personality equally dangerous. n/t. devils chaplain Sep 2013 #49
Politicians come & go. bvar22 Sep 2013 #50

Union Scribe

(7,099 posts)
1. Agreed.
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:38 PM
Sep 2013

And that wall will probably be there longer than those people will be famous, for the most part, so it's a better thing to study if one must choose between the two!

polichick

(37,152 posts)
6. That's what I like too - not into the personality thing...
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:51 PM
Sep 2013

although I did fall a little bit in love with Caroline Kennedy the day we registered voters together.

nomorenomore08

(13,324 posts)
12. Despite my many policy disagreements with President Obama, I find him likable enough
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:54 PM
Sep 2013

to have voted for him twice. Of course, there was also the whole voting-against-the-Republican thing both times, more so in 2012.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
14. I find him likable too - he's a lovely person really - but I still take it...
Tue Sep 10, 2013, 11:59 PM
Sep 2013

one policy at a time and agree or disagree with that.

Little Star

(17,055 posts)
51. That's how I roll with every pol, one policy/issue at a time....
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:45 PM
Sep 2013

And like you I also find him likable, in fact very likable.

devils chaplain

(602 posts)
15. Me too... and Obama's a big enough man with big enough duties to not care whether or not...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:01 AM
Sep 2013

people here "love" him or "hate" him. Frankly, a leader who is very concerned about how loved she or he is makes for a dangerous one.

QC

(26,371 posts)
37. At one time right here on DU, that would not have been a mysterious answer.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:24 AM
Sep 2013

We have always had heated discussions here, to put it mildly, but in the past those arguments usually had to do with policies and events.

Fluff was for the Lounge.

Now, way too much of the energy here is devoted to sophomoric discussions of personalities and juvenile insults. Try to discuss an issue and half the replies will be along the lines of "You're just a meanie!!!" and "You never really loved him!!!" That makes serious discussion pretty much impossible and has caused many of our smart, thoughtful posters to go elsewhere.

It's hard to believe that this is the same place where a person could once get a phenomenal education in politics and current events.

The personality thing has wrecked DU and the community we once had here.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
42. There's more here
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:16 AM
Sep 2013

than just politics.

And even if it were only politics, being interested in them is a whole different story from being emotionally involved to the point that it could be called a personal relationship.

IOW, supporting a politician/voting for him or her is not the same as identifying so closely with him that a bad word spoken about him is taken as a person attack upon oneself.

Hey, we voted for them...we didn't give birth to them and raise them from babies.

devils chaplain

(602 posts)
19. I just got done reading...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:08 AM
Sep 2013

The Stephen King novel about time travel to stop the assassination of JFK. I don't really read SK anymore but it was a fun read. It would make a fantastic movie if done right. I hope it is, most of SK's popular stuff is done eventually.

polichick

(37,152 posts)
21. That's a cool setup. King once said the worst thing that can happen to a writer is...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:12 AM
Sep 2013

to have someone make a movie out of his book - because the writer loses control of it and just has to watch them mess it up.

devils chaplain

(602 posts)
23. Feh! Even when messed up, they're good -- The Shining, Shawshank Redemption, and The Green Mile...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:20 AM
Sep 2013

were all SK books that turned out great, although he says he hated The Shining. If you do have the time, check out the JFK book or audiobook, it's interesting on a few levels.

 

markiv

(1,489 posts)
18. coming from an Irish and Catholic background, I kind of get the JFK thing
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:08 AM
Sep 2013

it wasnt just that it was a breakthrough in both categories to be president, it was that he was also perhaps the most glamorous president, perhaps of all time, to boot. The guy women wanted to have, the guy other guys wanted to be. He *still* is, to many people

So for Irish Catholics, he was a supercharged image and morale booster. President, young, rich, powerful, good looking, 'for the common man', with a young stylish wife and good looking young kids. He wasnt just 'a credit to his group' (Irish Catholics), he was "It". And he was all that at what could be the all time peak of American prestige (whether he has anything to do with it or not - he sure hadnt created it by inaugeration day, but it looked good on him)

For all his strengths, he was also very flawed, in my opinion, having affairs in the middle of the cold war? Talk about reckless and selfish.

But, I digress, and fully agree that i dont get putting personalities above issues, i sure as heck dont

But i do get the exception of the JFK mystique

devils chaplain

(602 posts)
22. I can too, and Obama for African Americans, and hopefully soon Elizabeth Warren for women...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:15 AM
Sep 2013

Pride is one thing, but actually adjusting ones' stance on the issues because "your guy" is for this or that or because "the other guy" is for or against this or that is not only vacuous, it's god damned dangerous.

deutsey

(20,166 posts)
39. While out walking through the neighborhood I lived in back in the '90s
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:37 AM
Sep 2013

I saw a painted portrait of JFK, RFK, and MLK hanging on the wall inside one of the homes.

I don't normally look into people's homes, but the image was large and caught my eye.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
43. I had one
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:18 AM
Sep 2013

in my bedroom.

A newspaper front page photo of JFK

But then, I was only 10 years old at the time.

 

OnyxCollie

(9,958 posts)
30. There was a poster at Freeperville named Sniffles
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:21 AM
Sep 2013

who used to post Dick Cheney picture threads similar to that one.

That's the kind of stuff you can't unsee.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
33. Wow! That is unbelievable. That is the stuff of tabloids.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:01 AM
Sep 2013

No wonder some people can't see the policies separately from the man.

That is really frightening, to think people who post stuff like that vote for president.

QC

(26,371 posts)
38. I will never forget when the head BOGger revealed
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:29 AM
Sep 2013

that she is a grown woman in her 60s.

Until that point, I had honestly believed that she was a teenager.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
28. I do oppose most of what Obama does. I think most of his policies help corporations more than they
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:50 AM
Sep 2013

help citizens. His economics is a lot like Reagon's Trickle Down economis. I try to recognize some of the good this president has done. He has done well on gay rights. I want Single Payer healthcare and am angry he never even mentioned it in negotiations. Still with the ACA my daughter gets to stay on my insurance until she is out of college. My husband and son cannot be denied based on pre-exisisting conditions. I'm not happy with my insurance premiums. But I have to say I am the most angry about education. I have to admit it has made me very angry and bitter. My son has suffered and continues to suffer under Race to the Top and the defunding of our public school system. I'm not happy with Obama's use of drones, the NSA spying programs or his plan to have military strikes in Syria. He has taken a moment to pause which is more than Bush would have done, but I am still not sure if he will listen to the American people if diplomacy fails. I really do hope for all involved that diplomacy wins in this situation. Because there are no good options if it doesn't.

 

nadinbrzezinski

(154,021 posts)
29. It is more than just weird
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:53 AM
Sep 2013

it is dangerous to the well being of a working democracy. Granted, you will have that in the best of them, but over the last ten years at least we have had the rise of cults of personalities that are expanding like viruses.

We had that during the Reagan years to an extent, but they have taken on a dangerous virulency that I find scary.

 

Marr

(20,317 posts)
31. I think you're right. I'm always tempted to say 'it's always been so', but
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:38 AM
Sep 2013

I do think there's been an increasingly cultish tone to politics in the US over the last 10-15 years or so. I have no idea where it's coming from, but I have to wonder if it's a coincidence that it's been accompanied by increasing "unitary executive" sentiment.

cui bono

(19,926 posts)
34. I think the decline in the quality of media plays a large part.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:03 AM
Sep 2013

They put forth a false fight to keep everyone playing a team sport rather than thinking about the issues. And corporate control of the election process as well, but that seems to go hand in hand with the media's role.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
36. And just a lack of critical thinking
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:31 AM
Sep 2013

or intellectual honesty on the part of the electorate, or something. Some people treat politics like religion. They have unconditional devotion and blind faith, then they judge and condemn people who don't think exactly like them. Ick.

tblue

(16,350 posts)
35. At the gym, if someone left a People mag
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:24 AM
Sep 2013

on a machine, I try to hide it as I return it to the rack. Don't want anyone to think I'd read that garbage. So boring and useless.

All I care about is policy. And I don't care who does or doesn't support anybody. I don't spend 1 second worrying about it.

JHB

(37,159 posts)
40. You're not the only one
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:46 AM
Sep 2013

Last edited Wed Sep 11, 2013, 05:29 PM - Edit history (1)

One of the most pernicious things in Democratic politics in my lifetime has been this Pining For Camelot, this need to have a politician you can swoon over (and project all your hopes onto).

It leaves one part of the Democratic coalition too willing to assume "he's on our side" no matter what's being bargained away, while another portion is prone to rally around politicians who sound good but can't get much done.

 

Bluenorthwest

(45,319 posts)
41. I'm the type that brings my own book to the Dr's office.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:05 AM
Sep 2013

I have a complex relationship in life with 'celebrity', a lifelong relationship, and so with artists or politicians or anyone who gets press it is easy for me to separate the press imagery from the actual work done. In terms of the 'fans' or those who take up personal attachments to famous people, they are wildly useful and valuable to the celebrity process even if the contribution is along the lines of 'background fill'. People who cast themselves as ardent admirers of a famous person volunteer to have a less than equal relationship with their object and with others, for they volunteer to exist only through the celebrity filter. They are not actual players, it is fine to humor them unless they become a security issue.
Frothy, annoying and necessary, just as those screaming kids were part of how the Beatles got to be the Beatles.

pipi_k

(21,020 posts)
44. Sounds like
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:33 AM
Sep 2013

me too.

I will usually bring my Kindle or maybe play some games on my iPhone while waiting.

I am one of those people who is insultingly uninterested in the doings of the rich and famous.

 

bigwillq

(72,790 posts)
46. I think it's just kind of human nature
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:14 AM
Sep 2013

to like certain people, things, movies, sports teams, etc., and to criticize those things we don't like.
Humans do this for a number of topics, not just politicians.

In the Lounge, there's threads on what movie is your favorite and people will list theirs, and then someone will pipe in and say how much they hate it.

That's just kind of how humans operate.

devils chaplain

(602 posts)
48. I don't operate that way...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:01 PM
Sep 2013

Maybe I'm kind of Aspergers-y that way or something. But passions can be overcome with concious thought and often times they should be.

 

FarCenter

(19,429 posts)
47. Even worse is describing relations between countries in terms of friendship and enmity
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:22 AM
Sep 2013

Relationships between countries should be described in practical and realistic terms.

Relationships between leaders should be cordial.

bvar22

(39,909 posts)
50. Politicians come & go.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:33 PM
Sep 2013

But THIS is FOREVER:

"We have come to a clear realization of the fact that true individual freedom cannot exist without economic security and independence. “Necessitous men are not free men.” People who are hungry and out of a job are the stuff of which dictatorships are made.

In our day these economic truths have become accepted as self-evident. We have accepted, so to speak, a second Bill of Rights under which a new basis of security and prosperity can [font size=3]be established for all—regardless of station, race, or creed.[/font]

Among these are:

*The right to a useful and remunerative job in the industries or shops or farms or mines of the nation;

*The right to earn enough to provide adequate food and clothing and recreation;

*The right of every farmer to raise and sell his products at a return which will give him and his family a decent living;

*The right of every businessman, large and small, to trade in an atmosphere of freedom from unfair competition and domination by monopolies at home or abroad;

*The right of every family to a decent home;

*The right to adequate medical care and the opportunity to achieve and enjoy good health;

*The right to adequate protection from the economic fears of old age, sickness, accident, and unemployment;

*The right to a good education.

All of these rights spell security. And after this war is won we must be prepared to move forward, in the implementation of these rights, to new goals of human happiness and well-being.

America's own rightful place in the world depends in large part upon how fully these and similar rights have been carried into practice for all our citizens.

Please note that the above values are defined as "Basic Human Rights",
and NOT as Commodities to be SOLD to Americans by "private" corporations.

I have a life long, deep emotional attachment to those VALUES,
and will fight FOR those goals until the day I die.

When a politician moves TOWARD those goals, I will support him/her.
When a politician moves AWAY from then, I will oppose him/her.
Other than that, I don't have much use for politicians.



[font color=firebrick size=3][center]"If we don't fight hard enough for the things we stand for,
at some point we have to recognize that we don't really stand for them."

--- Paul Wellstone[/font]
[/center]
[center][/font]
[font size=1]photo by bvar22
Shortly before Sen Wellstone was killed[/center]
[/font]


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