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Colorado recall votes bode ill for 2014 and 2016. (Original Post) CK_John Sep 2013 OP
Nah, the republicans are in full collapse. They are just not an issue. That's the current thought by Safetykitten Sep 2013 #1
I've been around for a long time, and have heard the death knell razorman Sep 2013 #8
No the NRA pumped a lot of money malaise Sep 2013 #2
The NRA was outspent 6 to 1 in Colorado hack89 Sep 2013 #3
Why are Colorado democrats so against a universal background check and large capacity liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #18
It was the process that offended many hack89 Sep 2013 #20
I'm just glad I don't live in CO. If you can't pass background checks after Sandy Hook then liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #23
You can if you are smart about it and respect the voters. hack89 Sep 2013 #27
so what if it didn't happen in Colorado? The reason those legislators passed those laws was to try liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #30
The proper motivation does not overcome poor execution hack89 Sep 2013 #33
I can tell I'm going to have to start trashing gun threads again. I'm not getting in the middle of liberal_at_heart Sep 2013 #36
Sorry the conversation didn't go your way. hack89 Sep 2013 #38
I'm a strong gun rights supporter but I support universal background checks. ... spin Sep 2013 #59
So what kind of Dem is willing to throw everything else on the platform away Blue_Tires Sep 2013 #24
People can count the number of adds that were run hack89 Sep 2013 #29
It's because it's easier to get riled up and vote AGAINST something joeybee12 Sep 2013 #26
It certainly shows that gun control is not that high a priority for many Dems hack89 Sep 2013 #31
So what does that tell us? wild bird Sep 2013 #34
Funny I never see the NRA on the ballot. CK_John Sep 2013 #4
It's hidden. TheCowsCameHome Sep 2013 #41
They were HUGELY outspent rl6214 Sep 2013 #9
How do you explain Ms. Giron's 12 point loss in a Dem. district? wild bird Sep 2013 #11
I bet you also go around ripping teddy bears away from children during thunder storms. Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #13
Your so funny, why not give us an opinion, not snark? CK_John Sep 2013 #15
OK Nuclear Unicorn Sep 2013 #25
To listen to some of the people here, wild bird Sep 2013 #17
Because there are Democrats who support the RKBA. MicaelS Sep 2013 #16
I tried to tell a couple of people here and I got a lot of flack for it. wild bird Sep 2013 #19
I know. MicaelS Sep 2013 #21
You are running into the well-placed extremists among the controllers. Eleanors38 Sep 2013 #53
maybe not, but changing the rules DID! CTyankee Sep 2013 #28
The voting law conflicted with the state constitution hack89 Sep 2013 #39
Fix it and get a revote, then... CTyankee Sep 2013 #42
There will be an election in 2014 - Dems will win the seats back. hack89 Sep 2013 #43
I'm sure they'll think of something else to suppress the vote of Dems...funny how that seems CTyankee Sep 2013 #44
The voting law was written and passed by DEMS this year to improve voter participation. hack89 Sep 2013 #47
It's a setback, but in the long run, gun nuts and teabaggers are a shrinking demographic. DanTex Sep 2013 #5
They eventually become the main stream. CK_John Sep 2013 #22
No - these are Blue districts that the recalls took place in hack89 Sep 2013 #6
Just to make sure, you can also make a last minute change and disallow mail in voting (which is CTyankee Sep 2013 #32
The issue was ballot access for third parties per the CO constitution hack89 Sep 2013 #37
It had the desired outcome. And I hope the two who were recalled can go into federal court on this. CTyankee Sep 2013 #40
HB1303 was passed this year by a Democratic legislature and signed by a Democratic Governor hack89 Sep 2013 #46
and funnily enough they didn't have enough time to print the ballots...yep...got that... CTyankee Sep 2013 #48
The Dem governor set the date of the recall election and the repukes opposed the lawsuit hack89 Sep 2013 #50
well, now, I guess Debbie Wasserman Schultz is flailing, too, in your opinion... CTyankee Sep 2013 #55
Show me a law suit that directly challenged mail-in ballots in CO hack89 Sep 2013 #56
Why don't you fill her in...you seem to know an awful lot about this effort...don't keep us CTyankee Sep 2013 #57
Just read the links I gave you. It is not a secret. Here, let me tell you for the 4th time hack89 Sep 2013 #58
That settles it for me if Debbie Wasser-Schultz says so. wild bird Sep 2013 #60
well, do you not wonder where she gets her ideas? CTyankee Sep 2013 #63
All politicians say stupid things at times and this seems to be one of her's. wild bird Sep 2013 #64
It's interesting that not many here are pointing out that the recall was an NRA effort and they CTyankee Sep 2013 #67
There's no question that this was an NRA sponsored recall, wild bird Sep 2013 #69
did you read chan790's post? CTyankee Sep 2013 #70
The CO recall votes just show the DEMS need to dump gun CONTROL as an issue rl6214 Sep 2013 #7
OF COURSE! CTyankee Sep 2013 #45
I don't care about polls, they are always manipulated rl6214 Sep 2013 #49
Um, right. What we need are UNSKEWED Polls... brooklynite Sep 2013 #54
Are you trying to make some kind of subtle point? Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2013 #62
You are correct don't believe the polls or Carnage251 Sep 2013 #52
Then so be it. n/t TheCowsCameHome Sep 2013 #10
Bahahaha. Okayyy. Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #12
Does it matter, I give my opinion and you can like or dislike it. So suck it up. CK_John Sep 2013 #14
I call Bullshit on this OP. Coyotl Sep 2013 #35
I blame Ralph Nader Capt. Obvious Sep 2013 #51
No, for several reasons.... Jeff In Milwaukee Sep 2013 #61
Tons of Bloomberg's money, you mean NickB79 Sep 2013 #72
No, it doesn't. It doesn't even bode badly for the future of gun control in CO. Chan790 Sep 2013 #65
You make an interesting point, esp. in light of the fact that this whole thing was led by the NRA. CTyankee Sep 2013 #68
Gee, if only someone could have foreseen this kind of thing... Egalitarian Thug Sep 2013 #66
I don't think those broader implications are necessarily so. Lizzie Poppet Sep 2013 #71
 

Safetykitten

(5,162 posts)
1. Nah, the republicans are in full collapse. They are just not an issue. That's the current thought by
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:32 AM
Sep 2013

Democrats. So we are constantly told to ignore them. This weird group that constantly is in decline but yet, still manages to insert themselves into every part of our daily life if we like it or not.

So don't worry, be happy and you too will be called a "chicken little" very soon.

razorman

(1,644 posts)
8. I've been around for a long time, and have heard the death knell
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:51 AM
Sep 2013

sounded numerous times for both parties. Every time an election swings one way or the other, there are those who predict that this means the imminent end of the party that just lost. I simply take all such predictions with a grain of salt. Alz I know is that life is a sinister plot aimed at me. (Yes, I meant to spell it that way.)

malaise

(268,997 posts)
2. No the NRA pumped a lot of money
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:35 AM
Sep 2013

and those against gun laws will have to do the same. Something must be wrong with people if those Columbine and cinema deaths did not influence the outcome of this election.
Life cannot be that cheap. Fuck the NRA

hack89

(39,171 posts)
3. The NRA was outspent 6 to 1 in Colorado
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:41 AM
Sep 2013

is it that hard to accept that there are Dems that support gun rights and ignoring them comes at a price?

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
18. Why are Colorado democrats so against a universal background check and large capacity
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:38 AM
Sep 2013

ammunition magazines? The majority of Americans support a universal background check. Democrats stance on education turned me independent. I am so very sad to see the democratic party take such a turn to the right. I'm not saying no one should be allowed to own a gun. After all if the Tea Party nut jobs are the only ones with guns when a national disaster does happen we will be in big trouble. However, to be against gun control measures such as background checks sounds extreme to me.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
20. It was the process that offended many
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:43 AM
Sep 2013

jamming all that legislation through in a very short time with little time for rational debate and public input.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
23. I'm just glad I don't live in CO. If you can't pass background checks after Sandy Hook then
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:56 AM
Sep 2013

something is wrong.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
30. so what if it didn't happen in Colorado? The reason those legislators passed those laws was to try
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:05 PM
Sep 2013

and prevent a Sandy Hook shooting in CO. Columbine happened in Colorado. My daughter's school had such a credible threat against it last year the FBI got involved. How many school shootings have to happen before we take some sort of action?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
33. The proper motivation does not overcome poor execution
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:09 PM
Sep 2013

secondly, the laws we are talking about would not have prevented Sandy Hook, Aurora or Columbine. Which is why it appeared as political opportunism to many.

liberal_at_heart

(12,081 posts)
36. I can tell I'm going to have to start trashing gun threads again. I'm not getting in the middle of
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:14 PM
Sep 2013

this crap again. Luckily my local legislators are voting for gun control and our people are not rejecting.

spin

(17,493 posts)
59. I'm a strong gun rights supporter but I support universal background checks. ...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:12 PM
Sep 2013

I personally refuse to sell any of my firearms to a person:

1) Who does not live in my home state, Florida.

2) That I do not have personally known for a lengthy period of time such a year or more.

3) Who does not have a valid Florida Concealed Weapons Permit. I wouldn't sell a shotgun to a person who does not have this license even though such a weapon might be difficult to conceal.

I felt that after the recent tragic massacres caused by firearms in our nation, we would be able to make some real progress in passing some much needed legislation to improve the gun laws in our nation.

Unfortunately senator Dianne Feinstein seized an opportunity to push for a new and improved assault weapons ban. I admire her for many of her efforts but I feel the effort to reinstate another assault weapons ban was the overreach that doomed any hopes I had of any significant improvements to our national firearm laws.

I have suggested many times here on DU that if gun control advocates wish to make significant headway at the national level they need to ban the use of the word "ban."

It is my opinion that in many states it is possible to pass strong control legislation but the effort to pass this legislation at a national level is doomed to failure. However this MAY change in the next decade or two or three.



Blue_Tires

(55,445 posts)
24. So what kind of Dem is willing to throw everything else on the platform away
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:57 AM
Sep 2013

all in the name of voting in NRA-backed repubs?? Not the kind of fuckin' Dem I'd want on my side...

and for the record, if you *honestly* think the NRA spent that little (I mean real amounts, and not the amount officially declared for paperwork), I don't know what else to tell you...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
29. People can count the number of adds that were run
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:03 PM
Sep 2013

the vast majority were against the recall. Where exactly was the NRA spending all that secret money?

 

joeybee12

(56,177 posts)
26. It's because it's easier to get riled up and vote AGAINST something
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:59 AM
Sep 2013

than for it...the gun fetishists got all riled up over common sense, and they're the ones who voted.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
31. It certainly shows that gun control is not that high a priority for many Dems
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:06 PM
Sep 2013

but that being the case, it has to be accounted for when you are attempting to introduce gun control laws. The Dems in CO were not smart about how they approached passing gun control legislation and it bit them in the ass.

 

wild bird

(421 posts)
34. So what does that tell us?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:12 PM
Sep 2013

It tells us that these 2 otherwise capable Democrats didn't listen to what their constituents really wanted on the guns issue, plus the fact that these bills were percieved to have been rushed through without the proper debate and public input and you get the perfect storm.

Like I said, you can't blame the loss of these 2 Democrats on the pro recall forces when they were outspent by a margin of 6-1 by the anti recall force.

And for Ms. Giron to lose by that margin in a Dem. district would mean a whole lot of Dems. voted for the recall..

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
9. They were HUGELY outspent
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:52 AM
Sep 2013

Not only by the NRA but by Gabby Giffords PAC. Can't blame this one one the NRA. These reps did it to themselves.

 

wild bird

(421 posts)
11. How do you explain Ms. Giron's 12 point loss in a Dem. district?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:26 AM
Sep 2013

And the anti recall forces out spent the pro recall forces by a margin of 6-1 and yet, they still lost.
How do you explain that?

I'm not happy at all with the results, but money didn't seem to make a difference this time around.

 

wild bird

(421 posts)
17. To listen to some of the people here,
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:37 AM
Sep 2013

you'd think so.
I'm pro gun control, but I also know when to cut bait and run.
These 2 Democrats very obviously didn't listen to what their constituents wanted in the way of gun control laws and they paid the price.

All my children are grown and gone, but I have a black cat that will run and hide in the closet at the first thunder boomie.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
16. Because there are Democrats who support the RKBA.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:36 AM
Sep 2013

And are not willing to support Democrats who attempt to abridge that right. All Giron and Morse had to do was vote against the gun bills, and they would still be in office. But they chose not to do that and we see the consequences. Furthermore, both her and Morse refuse to accept that it was their own fault. Politicians who lose seldom do.

I have seen very few politicians ever say:

"I was obviously wrong on the issues, and that is why the voters tuned me out of office."

 

wild bird

(421 posts)
19. I tried to tell a couple of people here and I got a lot of flack for it.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:40 AM
Sep 2013

I was even told to go back to the RKBA group and gloat, even though I rarely post there, I usually post in the other gun group.

MicaelS

(8,747 posts)
21. I know.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 11:49 AM
Sep 2013

People seldom want to hear that they are wrong on an issue. No matter how many elections supporting an issue costs them, they like Morse, still feel "that they are in the right."

 

Eleanors38

(18,318 posts)
53. You are running into the well-placed extremists among the controllers.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:00 PM
Sep 2013

I have voted for my assault-weapon-banning congressman for years; I'm not one-issue. But some controllers seem bent on steering for the rocks everytime.

I hope the Colorado vote is not a harbinger of things to come, unless it is a serious re-assessment of gun politics in the Party, and on DU.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
28. maybe not, but changing the rules DID!
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:03 PM
Sep 2013

Coloradans are used to having mail in ballots and the overwhelming numbers of voters use them. It is state law. But that was ignored in this contest. I am hopeful that this will be taken to court and there will be a re-vote, giving enough time for ballots to be printed.

There's your explanation, wild bird...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
39. The voting law conflicted with the state constitution
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:22 PM
Sep 2013

regarding the time allowed for candidates to gather signatures to get on the ballot. A judge says the constitution took precedence over the voting law - which one would expect.

The voting law was flawed and needs to be fixed.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
43. There will be an election in 2014 - Dems will win the seats back.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:27 PM
Sep 2013

the recall vote was legal under Colorado law. There are no do overs.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
44. I'm sure they'll think of something else to suppress the vote of Dems...funny how that seems
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:31 PM
Sep 2013

to be happening all over the country, don't you think, hack? Whatta coinkydinky!

hack89

(39,171 posts)
47. The voting law was written and passed by DEMS this year to improve voter participation.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:36 PM
Sep 2013
Lawmakers passed HB1303 during the 2013 legislative session in an effort to improve voter participation. It required mail ballots be sent to every voter and that instead of precincts, voter service centers would be open where people could register to vote or change their address through election day. Previously, voters had a 29-day window to register before elections, among the longest blackout periods in the nation.

The new law is getting its first trial run during the recall elections in Pueblo and El Paso counties. Sen. John Morse, D-Colorado Springs, and Sen. Angela Giron, D-Pueblo, are facing recall elections where voters will decide whether to keep them in office or oust them over gun laws they supported last session.


http://gazette.com/county-clerk-discounts-voter-fraud-allegations-in-colorado-recall/article/1505965

They simply wrote and passed a flawed law. They need to fix it.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
6. No - these are Blue districts that the recalls took place in
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:45 AM
Sep 2013

the lesson learned is not to assume that Dem voters automatically support for all gun control measures.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
32. Just to make sure, you can also make a last minute change and disallow mail in voting (which is
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:07 PM
Sep 2013

state law and overwhelmingly used by Colorado voters). Ain't it funny how that "worked"? Surprise, surprise, voters!

hack89

(39,171 posts)
37. The issue was ballot access for third parties per the CO constitution
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:17 PM
Sep 2013

the Constitution states that a candidate has up to 15 days to submit signatures so that their name appears on the ballot. Giving candidates 15 days did not leave enough time to print and distribute mail-in ballots.

The voting law conflicted with the state Constitution - the judge said the Constitution takes precedence.

http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/fort-morgan-news/ci_23852132/denver-judge-sides-libertarians-recall-lawsuit

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
40. It had the desired outcome. And I hope the two who were recalled can go into federal court on this.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:23 PM
Sep 2013

Suppressing the vote takes some planning, as we have seen abroad in this land with the RW doing it in every state they can, thinking up every clever way they can to limit the number of voters because that is the ONLY way they can win.

hack89

(39,171 posts)
46. HB1303 was passed this year by a Democratic legislature and signed by a Democratic Governor
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:34 PM
Sep 2013
Lawmakers passedHB1303 during the 2013 legislative session in an effort to improve voter participation. It required mail ballots be sent to every voter and that instead of precincts, voter service centers would be open where people could register to vote or change their address through election day. Previously, voters had a 29-day window to register before elections, among the longest blackout periods in the nation.

The new law is getting its first trial run during the recall elections in Pueblo and El Paso counties. Sen. John Morse, D-Colorado Springs, and Sen. Angela Giron, D-Pueblo, are facing recall elections where voters will decide whether to keep them in office or oust them over gun laws they supported last session.


http://gazette.com/county-clerk-discounts-voter-fraud-allegations-in-colorado-recall/article/1505965

I know you are unhappy with the results but did you ever consider doing some basic research before posting?

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
48. and funnily enough they didn't have enough time to print the ballots...yep...got that...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:39 PM
Sep 2013

I know you are happy with the results and I'm sure you think this is just a coincidence, strangely enough.

Move along, folks, nothing to see here...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
50. The Dem governor set the date of the recall election and the repukes opposed the lawsuit
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:48 PM
Sep 2013

you are flailing here.

Gov. John Hickenlooper set the recall election date on July 18 for Morse and Giron. Both state senators face recalls for their support of tougher gun laws passed by the Democratic-controlled state legislature this year.


And you fail to note that the repukes opposed the lawsuit as well.

In a rare show of bipartisanship, Republicans and Democrats appeared unified in court, saying the 10-day window should have been upheld. With a recall election that voters have to attend in person, lower turnout is likely, which is not beneficial to the Democratic incumbents. And with a third-party candidate now likely to appear on the ballot, Republicans fear a split vote.


http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/fort-morgan-news/ci_23852132/denver-judge-sides-libertarians-recall-lawsuit

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
55. well, now, I guess Debbie Wasserman Schultz is flailing, too, in your opinion...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:51 PM
Sep 2013

because she is calling this "voter suppression."

I wonder why?

hack89

(39,171 posts)
56. Show me a law suit that directly challenged mail-in ballots in CO
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:54 PM
Sep 2013

Because that is exactly what she claimed happened.

She appears to be ignorant of what happened Colorado..

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
57. Why don't you fill her in...you seem to know an awful lot about this effort...don't keep us
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 01:58 PM
Sep 2013

Dems here at democraticunderground in the dark...

hack89

(39,171 posts)
58. Just read the links I gave you. It is not a secret. Here, let me tell you for the 4th time
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:03 PM
Sep 2013

The Constitution states that a candidate has up to 15 days to submit signatures so that their name appears on the ballot. Giving candidates 15 days did not leave enough time to print and distribute mail-in ballots.

The voting law conflicted with the state Constitution - the judge said the Constitution takes precedence.

In a lawsuit filed last week by the Libertarian Party of Colorado, the group alleges the secretary of state's office and county clerks did not give them ample time to gather signatures to get their candidates on the ballot to challenge Democratic Sens. John Morse of Colorado Springs and Angela Giron of Pueblo. Under the Colorado Constitution, a candidate has up to 15 days before the Sept. 10 election date to submit signatures so that their name appears on the ballot.

With Monday's ruling, Libertarians, and any other potential candidates, now have until Aug. 26 to gather enough signatures to get on the ballot — making the tight turnaround impossible for clerks to then print and mail ballots to voters. "It cannot be ignored," McGahey said of the state constitution in his oral decision from the bench.

McGahey also called House Bill 1303, a sweeping elections bill passed by Democrats this year that requires all mail-in elections, "flawed" as it conflicts with the constitution.

According to the state statute cited by Gessler's office, a 10-day window from July 18, when the governor set the recall election date, allows candidates to submit 1,000 signatures to the secretary of state's office to have their names appear on the ballot.


http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/fort-morgan-news/ci_23852132/denver-judge-sides-libertarians-recall-lawsuit

This is the law in question - passed this year by a Democratic legislature and signed by a Democratic Governor

Lawmakers passed HB1303 during the 2013 legislative session in an effort to improve voter participation. It required mail ballots be sent to every voter and that instead of precincts, voter service centers would be open where people could register to vote or change their address through election day. Previously, voters had a 29-day window to register before elections, among the longest blackout periods in the nation.

The new law is getting its first trial run during the recall elections in Pueblo and El Paso counties. Sen. John Morse, D-Colorado Springs, and Sen. Angela Giron, D-Pueblo, are facing recall elections where voters will decide whether to keep them in office or oust them over gun laws they supported last session.


http://gazette.com/county-clerk-discounts-voter-fraud-allegations-in-colorado-recall/article/1505965

The Dem governor set the date for the election which did not leave enough time to print and mail ballots.

Gov. John Hickenlooper set the recall election date on July 18 for Morse and Giron. Both state senators face recalls for their support of tougher gun laws passed by the Democratic-controlled state legislature this year.


And the repukes joined the Dems in opposing the lawsuit.

In a rare show of bipartisanship, Republicans and Democrats appeared unified in court, saying the 10-day window should have been upheld. With a recall election that voters have to attend in person, lower turnout is likely, which is not beneficial to the Democratic incumbents. And with a third-party candidate now likely to appear on the ballot, Republicans fear a split vote.


http://www.fortmorgantimes.com/fort-morgan-news/ci_23852132/denver-judge-sides-libertarians-recall-lawsuit
 

wild bird

(421 posts)
60. That settles it for me if Debbie Wasser-Schultz says so.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:17 PM
Sep 2013

Even though she doesn't even live there.
I believe Hack69 has provided all the proof needed, yet, for some reason, you refuse to accept it.

I think that in 2014, these seats will be Democrats hands.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
63. well, do you not wonder where she gets her ideas?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:31 PM
Sep 2013

She should know something about the party she chaired...

I think that with all the voter suppression going on in so many states, it is a wise fear that this is, too. As a strong Democrat, I share that fear. We've seen it recently again and again.

However, there is another suspicion I have and that is the effort to convince Dems that the electorate is really and truly AGAINST gun control, so Dems had better dump it as a campaign issue. And so, conveniently enough, this "fits" right in with that theory. So give up gun control, Dems! Don't talk about it any more. It's a loser as a campaign issue. Don't even THINK about advocating it...it's all over and you'll be sorry if you bring it up again...yadda, yadda...

 

wild bird

(421 posts)
64. All politicians say stupid things at times and this seems to be one of her's.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:42 PM
Sep 2013

I think you know my position on gun control, I won't give up despite the setbacks, and in my opinion, this is a minor one, but politicians should also listen to their constituents before voting on bills, and in this case, that seems to not be the case.
But, like Wasser-Schultz, I don't live there, I have to rely on those like yourself and the newspapers to find out what"s happening there.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
67. It's interesting that not many here are pointing out that the recall was an NRA effort and they
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:00 PM
Sep 2013

don't deny that. However, to read some of the gun people here it just fell out of the clear blue sky. I think a healthy dose of skepticism should be called for when I start seeing RW websites making the same arguments that some of our pro gun DUers are making. And if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it is probably a duck...

 

wild bird

(421 posts)
69. There's no question that this was an NRA sponsored recall,
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:07 PM
Sep 2013

what I'm having a hard time figuring out is why, despite being outspent 6-1 by the anti recall forces, how the hell did we lose? Especially in Ms. Giron's district?

This leads me to believe that either Dem's in CO. were too complacent, or, those 2 Sen. didn't really listen to their constituents, much to their chagrin now.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
70. did you read chan790's post?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:27 PM
Sep 2013

he makes some interesting points about how the Repubs are having to rely on recall elections to win anything...and I might add, that keeping it from being a mail in balloting question diminished Dem strength and the NRA knew and this and planned for it. This was not a coincidence at all.

As for the issue of being outspent, Mike Bloomberg is a New Yorker and Jewish. As a kid growing up in Texas I heard a lot about Jewish New Yorkers, not from my family but from people who didn't know any better. I hate to think that this kind of prejudice is still alive and well in some places in this country, but it does make me wonder.

 

rl6214

(8,142 posts)
7. The CO recall votes just show the DEMS need to dump gun CONTROL as an issue
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:49 AM
Sep 2013

It is and always has been a loser. We need to promote and elect representatives that won't support that sort of losing legislation.

 

Coyotl

(15,262 posts)
35. I call Bullshit on this OP.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 12:14 PM
Sep 2013

They carefully picked who to recall and poured a lot of money into it.

The election map is not going to change in the direction your glass ball predicts. Remember this:

People don't change. The old ones die. Nature is on the side of the Left!

Jeff In Milwaukee

(13,992 posts)
61. No, for several reasons....
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:19 PM
Sep 2013

Tons of outside the district money came in to these elections -- that won't be available next time through. Gun Lunatics voted like crazy in these recalls, and turn-out was down otherwise because, among other things, there was no voting by mail.

NickB79

(19,240 posts)
72. Tons of Bloomberg's money, you mean
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 04:20 PM
Sep 2013

The NRA was outspent 6-to-1 by Bloomberg's gun control organization, yet still won.

 

Chan790

(20,176 posts)
65. No, it doesn't. It doesn't even bode badly for the future of gun control in CO.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:45 PM
Sep 2013

It's all about the gamesmanship. It goes something like this. Republicans cannot compete in major presidential-type elections in many places they need to compete in order to remain viable. So...they lose in major election years; they're going to continue to lose in major election years. They're going to continue to lose on big issues too on the national scale. The tide is against them and rather than fighting back to the center, they're letting it pull them further out for fear of losing a shrinking voting base of reactionary conservatives. (Very old people and Christians...both are on the decline.) In fact, their ability to win off-season elections is constantly decreasing and will continue to decrease because all the motivation in the world will not cover up for their lack of ability to attract new young Republicans at a fast enough rate to offset their death-attrition. If they don't change tack, they're going to wake up soon and find they've got a CAGOP problem nationally...not enough Republicans to be relevant and too irrelevant to be in position to stop their attrition.

What they do have is a high-motivation reserve based on angst over their increasing marginalization. (This is universal, the waning party always has this in ever-increasing degrees as they watch the opposition do what they consider "ruining America&quot This plays into the fact they also have an innocuous tool called the recall that very few on the left realize is fucking awful for Democrats currently because it creates even-more-off-season elections. In all but the most liberal Democratic-lock places recalls are surefire wins for the Republicans consistently. High-motivation is directly causative of impetus to vote...they vote in the elections they're going to get crushed in, but they turn out in nearly the same numbers for the off-year and recall elections.

The dominant party does not...we're by-and-large not as angry or motivated as they are...we have our President in the White House, we're seeing our policy initiative needs met (Hooray marriage equality, huzzah capital-punishment repeal, three cheers for gun control, chip chip cheerio Obamacare!), we win more partisan fights than we lose. Life is pretty good. We don't have that drive to combat them "ruining America."

Further, it does not take a large portion of the population of a district to issue a recall...that could have been achieved solely out of the voter-pool of the district that supported the loser in the last election. Consider these factors together...it only takes the losing Republican voters from the last election to recall an elected official and Republicans are highly-motivated to turn out for a very-off-cycle election while Democrats are highly-unmotivated to turn out. Does it make more sense to take away from the recall election that the reason we lost seats in the recall was because the very occurrence of the recall favored the Republicans or to take away that we lost the recall because we passed gun control that the majority of the residents of those districts support? When you get the answer to that one, it's a short leap to figure put why 2014 and 2016 do not favor the Republicans. (Hint: Their turnout remains steady...ours goes from being smaller than theirs to much larger than theirs.)

For a forum full of political wonks, it's mildly irritating to have to explain to you why you're all Chicken Littling. The sky is falling! The sky is falling! We lost an election we were certain to lose the moment the petitions were filed, no matter how much money we spent or GOTV we did or the conditions on the ground. The Republicans know this...they know recalls favor them when it's Democrats being recalled...and recalls favor them when it's Republicans being recalled. That's why the number of recalls is increasing. It's why they support recall statutes in the states. It's why they don't fight Democrats too hard when Democrats try to pass recall statutes.

Recalls, midterms and special elections are the only way they're keeping themselves in it...it's going to continue to be. We're going to win the WH again in 2016 and probably pick up seats everywhere due to coattails; they going to chip themselves back into spitting range in both the state legislatures and Congress through midterms, recalls and special elections. There is some sense they may even do the almost-unprecedented and lose seats in the midterms.

CTyankee

(63,912 posts)
68. You make an interesting point, esp. in light of the fact that this whole thing was led by the NRA.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:02 PM
Sep 2013

Doesn't that tell us something right there?

 

Egalitarian Thug

(12,448 posts)
66. Gee, if only someone could have foreseen this kind of thing...
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 02:47 PM
Sep 2013

...oh wait, we did. Looking forward to 2014 wherein the Democratic Party will tell us that there's nothing that could be done, again.

 

Lizzie Poppet

(10,164 posts)
71. I don't think those broader implications are necessarily so.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 03:51 PM
Sep 2013

That is, I don't think those results should be seen as some sort of general legitimization of the RW, but instead as a reaction to a very specific, narrow issue. Gun control is a major hot button issue for many, many voters, a great many of whom generally vote for liberal candidates. This was a single-issue vote.

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