Based on what you know, is George Zimmerman or Trayvon Martin the better person?

[CreekDog]

In terms of honesty, character, etc. or whatever you determine important to judge their goodness as a person.

This doesn't mean either one is perfect, nor either one the worst possible evil.

It is intended to compare the two.

Whom do you think is the better human being of the two.

15 votes, 3 passes | Time left: Unlimited
	George Zimmerman
	0 (0%)
	Trayvon Martin
	15 (100%)
	3 DU members did not wish to select any of the options provided.
Show usernames Disclaimer: This is an Internet poll

[Tommy_Carcetti]

1. Well, Ol' Georgie is one up on Trayvon on the whole killing people department.

Other than that, CNN says it's too close to call.

[Gravitycollapse]

2. I do not think it is appropriate to try and judge the character of a life cut so short.

It would be wholly inadequate to say what kind of person he was or would have been.

However, I can say with near certainty that Zimmerman is a bad person. And that's really all I need to know.

[dem in texas]

30. I totally agree this poll is stupid!

You can compare a young person to an adult. And it appears that Martin was a normal teenager while Zimmerman has serious mental problems.

[SoCalDem]

3. I would have to say that they were each "typical", to some degree

Trayvon was a typical teen-aged boy..absorbed in his friendships, perhaps a bit ambivalent about school.. a kid with some family issues (as MOST families have these days)... He was probably vacillating between bravado & fear that night (as many boys his age do every day)

George is a buffoonish guy who seems to have delusions of what he is/wants to be.. He wants to be a cop..no one wants him as a cop, so he glombs onto cop-culture and focuses (see Paul Blart) on his own style of vigilantism. He's probably stunned that people did not shower him with accolades after he "stood his ground"..

Our culture is FULL of Zimmermans...adding guns to the mix, ups the body/injury count nationwide.

[jberryhill]

4. What makes one person "better" than another?

Are "better" people born that way, did they work at it, or what?

[CreekDog]

8. which of your two questions are you asking?

[jberryhill]

14. I only get one?

Both, I guess.

Aw shit, now I'm up to three. Well, the genie in the bottle grants that many, right?

[CreekDog]

20. Actually, you're up to 4 now

[jberryhill]

21. Fuck!

Uh, how many do I get?

[CreekDog]

23. as many as you want

I just have to work on getting around to them.

[name not needed]

115. Not shooting unarmed teenagers helps.

[lpbk2713]

5. Rachel Jeantel

Frankly. I'll never get to know anything first hand about Trayvon.
But if he can be judged by his friends I would have been honored to know him.

[Raine]

6. That's easy for me to answer ... Trayvon Martin. nt

[etherealtruth]

7. One is a murderer ...

.. the other, a teen, that we will never know what kind of adult person he would be.

[pintobean]

9. Is this some kind of joke?

[CreekDog]

11. Why would you say such a thing about your own post?

And, no your post clearly isn't a joke, it's not even funny.

[Blue_In_AK]

10. Trayvon was just a kid.

It's impossible to say how his life would have turned out, but Zimmerman obviously has "issues."

[dionysus]

12. wierd poll! i think the answer is pretty easy to deduce.

[treestar]

13. Trayvon was a good student

Pretty safe guess he would not have grown up to be a killer.

[jberryhill]

16. Ted Bundy was an honor student at UW

[treestar]

17. There are always exceptions to the rule

[jberryhill]

18. Osama Bin Laden had an engineering degree

[treestar]

19. still don't see evidence Trayvon was headed

for serial killer-dom or leading of terrorist groups.

Heck even Zimmy doesn't appear headed for any of that.

Trayvon had fairly decent parents, wasn't in any serious trouble - the odds are that he'd have gone to college and made something of himself like many an average teen.

[CreekDog]

31. Feeling argumentative I see...

[jberryhill]

33. There is no shortage of well educated criminals

[CreekDog]

35. did Treestar say there there isn't?

no he did not.

[99Forever]

15. Hmmmm...

... let me see...

One is a murdering gun humping asshole...

... the other is that murdering gun humping asshole's victim.

You do the math.

[CakeGrrl]

25. On this, I wholeheartedly agree.

The only people who would think Zimmerman is the better person are those who believed Trayvon Martin deserved what he got.

[BlueJazz]

22. That was easy.

[rrneck]

24. This is the funniest OP I've seen in quite a while.

[pintobean]

27. CreekDog's polls are legend.

Mega-meta laughs.

[Robb]

26. Zimmerman is out with the UN seizing chemical weapons RIGHT NOW.

It'll be on TMZ here in a bit.

[gordianot]

28. Trayvon was a young man who got caught by a creep who totally arrested his development.

[DrewFlorida]

29. It's a stupid question! It has no bearing what-so-ever on the murder of an unarmed teenage boy.

[Boom Sound 416]

32. And what do we know about Trayvon?

Be honest

[Rex]

34. Tell us.

Be honest, what do we know?

[Boom Sound 416]

37. We know

That no one wants to speak ill of the dead.

[Rex]

38. SO that means that there are some negative things about Martin

that we know...but don't want to bring up?

[Boom Sound 416]

39. What's the point

[Rex]

40. Dunno, what do we know?

And is it relevant at this point in time?

[Boom Sound 416]

41. I don't see how it could be

[Rex]

42. Me either, so the OP is a trick question.

nt.

[CreekDog]

43. It's not a trick question, or I wouldn't have responded to my own poll

[Boom Sound 416]

46. Oh, well that certifies it

[CreekDog]

50. For someone asking what we know about Trayvon Martin, you sure post about him a lot

Boom Sound 416: "and tragically for Trayvon, he brought fists to a gun fight"

Boom Sound 416 (803 posts)
242. Not to speak ill of the dead

But why are we to believe that Trayvon would tell the absolute truth. Because he got shot? What if he survived? What would his testimony be? Would it differ from John Good? Would it simply amount to one word against another?

Everyone is happy to Zimmerman a liar and maybe he is. I can accept that. Why can no one accept that Trayvon was a human and not an angel subject to all the shortcomings of any other human?

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3245235

[div class="excerpt"]Boom Sound 416 (803 posts)
44. Do I really need to

List out the points of the trial. Those are the facts and the shall we say alleged facts.

Then their is the law. Why are you assuming I don't care about Trayvon. Because it feels as such. The whole pile on does. Is this a tragedy yes. Is the verdict a tragedy? I'm sorry I still believe that if you go looking for trouble, you will find. Damn, look at me now. I steel feel the way I felt and I waded into something when I should have kept my trap shut. So, I went looking for it and I found it. So did both of them. So many things could have shut this down from the point of where it began. And tragically for Trayvon, he brought fists to a gun fight. And indisputably Zimmerman would not have got out of his car without his gun. No way.

So what are we left with?

How do we react?

Who pays?

Who do we indict?

It's craziness. And the woodwork comments like "I'm so happy I'm white, but it's a damn shame life is like that and our country sucks because it pro-ports racism. But I live here so I'll try to change it. But at the end of the day I've got the advantage universally. And furthermore the other guy is blah blah blah."

I think foremost lay-expert to this verdict are African American members of law enforcement. Specifically city cops.

I'd like the crappy media to ask just one.
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3277680

Boom Sound 416 (803 posts)
22. For those of you who think this is a PR stunt

Last edited Wed Jul 24, 2013, 07:24 AM USA/ET - Edit history (1)
Can you map out the timeline of events

When was the agency hired
Script written
Location scouted
Actors casts
Police officers willing to cover up briefed
And file false reports
Fire dept And EMS, ditto
The other Samaritan that pulled over

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023328333#post22

[Boom Sound 416]

62. And?

Besides what does this actually mean?

" For someone asking what we know about Trayvon Martin, you sure post about him a lot"

[CreekDog]

73. Disguising your agenda of casting aspersions on Martin since you got here

That's what.

[Boom Sound 416]

74. Yeah 3 posts out of about 500 on the subject

You got me

[CreekDog]

79. You've posted dozens of times on Martin alone

Do you think lying by saying youve posted three times is more convincing than the truth?

[Boom Sound 416]

81. Uhhh no

You sited three posts or so of mine. I just said I've posted about 500 times on the subject.

I don't speak ill of the dead. But I have questioned those who believe he was not subject to any and all of the shortcomings any human being.

I've also said repeatedly that regardless of the Trayvon's character or actions, he didn't deserve to die.

Throttle back a little and read before you call me a liar about something that is searchable.

[pintobean]

87. I take it

you haven't met Creekdog before today.

[Boom Sound 416]

90. Sheesh

[CreekDog]

88. nice edit to change what you said. by the way, you do speak "ill of the dead"

you've been doing it about Trayvon Martin since you joined DU.

[Boom Sound 416]

94. Wow

Original

You sited three posts or so of mine. I just I've posted about 500 times on the subject.

Edited

You sited three posts or so of mine. I just said I've posted about 500 times on the subject.

---

Now I know how you geniused up this poll

[CreekDog]

102. I don't need to post all 500 of your posts to prove that you've cast aspersions on him

you have.

as for the poll, the results reflect DU. DU has a great deal of different people, personalities and approaches.

yet on this topic, there is almost universal agreement, overwhelmingly so.

[Boom Sound 416]

103. Where do I begin

How about see post 76

And we'll call it square

Or should I wait for the edit

[LanternWaste]

108. Who specifically stated young Mr. Martin was "not subject to any and all of the shortcomings any hum

Who specifically stated young Mr. Martin was "not subject to any and all of the shortcomings any human being...."


And, as you asked of others up-thread, please be honest...

[Boom Sound 416]

110. Ok two points

Maybe there is a typo or you're quote is shortened but my point was - I questioned those who acted as if Trayvon was not subject to all the shortcomings of any other human. I think that answers you, yes?

And b

The "be honest" is: ask yourself what you really know as opposed to, let's say, what you (the collective you) think you know or just may believe to know. That's all.

[Boom Sound 416]

44. Perhaps, but certainly meaningless

[pintobean]

53. Now we know

Same ole, same ole.

[Rex]

55. Threads like this make me miss META.

[CreekDog]

77. The poster you're responding to posts extensively on Martin

He's feigning ignorance to cast aspersions.

[Rex]

78. Well I was wondering what 'we know'.

I know Martin was walking home minding his own business. He had a bag of skittles and a can of soda. I know he went to the store and was walking back from the store when Zimmerman accosted him.

Just seemed said poster knows a lot more and I being a curious soul, had to ask.

[CreekDog]

80. Exactly. For someone who has posted so much on Martin...

Suddenly he's at a loss for words.

[Rex]

82. I guess we will never know what brilliant insight boomer has

on the subject. And here I showed up today, just to learn something new.

[Boom Sound 416]

83. "We" "know"

We - as in the collective, as those here at this site

Know - as in fact, things that actually happened

What do we know about Trayvon

We know a helluva lot about z. What do we know about Trayvon.

But you both cant even face the question. Talk about casting aspersions.

[Rex]

84. What question? You have not actually

told us anything that we don't already know about Martin...or are you afraid to come out and say it? I think the later.

[Boom Sound 416]

86. The question is semi-rhetorical

And I don't speak ill of the dead

[Rex]

89. Then you don't really know anything that we don't.

Okay, so no mystery here. You are just saying something vague, without coming out directly and making your statement clear. Gotcha.

[Boom Sound 416]

93. You know what

Lets just go with that. I'll sleep fine.

[Boom Sound 416]

85. I know

There is a lot of speculation to what you think you know in the above post.

I don't claim to know much more than that.

[CreekDog]

105. what was the point all the other times you did it?

because you have spoken ill of Trayvon Martin, the argument that you won't here because you don't want to "speak ill of the dead" is bogus.

the better explanation is that if you do so here, people will jump all over you for it and you will look bad.

[Boom Sound 416]

106. Show me

[Boom Sound 416]

113. As Tom Petty said

"The waiting is the hardest part"

[pintobean]

116. It appears that something

else has captured his attention.

And, just so you know...

[Boom Sound 416]

117. I'll give him the benefit of the doubt.

But it's not just my questions he dodges but his own accusations.

[pintobean]

121. Yeah, he does that.

As you can see from this thread, a lot of people know how he is.

[countingbluecars]

48. We know this.

According to Rachel Jeantel's lawyer:

"She said 'he was one of the few guys that never made fun of me, about the way I dressed, about the way I talked, about my hair, about my complexion, you know, about my weight.'"

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/07/03/rachel-jeantel-attorney-trayvon-martin_n_3542350.html

[Boom Sound 416]

63. Sorry you lost me at

Fill-in-the-blank's lawyer

[Orsino]

124. That he has never lied to us since the night he met Zimmerman. n/t

[Boom Sound 416]

126. Yup.

[Mira]

36. This is the second trick question poll I won't be tricked into answering.

I fail to see the reason for this poll and if my fingers were not already moving I'd not respond to it.

[CreekDog]

45. It's not a trick question or I wouldn't have answered it

Why would I answer my own question if it were a trick question?

Incidentally, nearly everyone is answering the same way as I did.

[pintobean]

49. Oh, please

give us your sources for all of this information on Travon Martin.

[countingbluecars]

51. OMG

Everything on the internet and facebook is true and accurate?? Who knew.

[redwitch]

54. I would like to see your sources.

Regarding Trayvon Martin. "A violent, racist drug user"?? Well I have read he smoked pot. "backpack full of jewelry"??

If you are going to post innuendo, especially about a young man that was shot to death you have to cite sources. Better still, delete your crap post.

[CreekDog]

56. I don't want to see his sources

Do you know where he pulled them out of?

:O

[redwitch]

57. :-)

I see what you mean.

[pintobean]

67. It's gone to MIRT

At Thu Sep 12, 2013, 12:05 PM you sent an alert on the following post:

two terrible people found each other in the night
http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3655270

REASON FOR ALERT:

This post is disruptive, hurtful, rude, insensitive, over-the-top, or otherwise inappropriate.

YOUR COMMENTS:

All the right wing bullshit all rolled up in one post. How convenient.

A randomly-selected Jury of DU members completed their review of this alert at Thu Sep 12, 2013, 12:13 PM, and voted 5-1 to HIDE IT.

Juror #1 voted to HIDE IT and said: Seems trollish.
Juror #2 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #3 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #4 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #5 voted to HIDE IT and said: No explanation given
Juror #6 voted to LEAVE IT ALONE and said: Brilliant response. Why not use it?

[redwitch]

72. I tried to alert too but alerted on the wrong thread.

[CreekDog]

96. HopeHoops reincarnated.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

58. Very little of what you claim about Trayvon was actually true.

Where'd you get your information from, World Net Daily?

[Fantastic Anarchist]

59. Well, I guess you're sad you didn't get to put him on trial, eh?

I mean, damn, he deserves prison time ... if only some dickhead didn't shoot him, right?

You don't know anything about Trayvon.

[CreekDog]

61. DrHobo: "Martin was quite the racist himself"

drhobo (73 posts)
167. punk, not coon

At least from the words of the prosecutor.

On the otherhand, if Rachel's testimony is accurate, Martin was quite the racist himself.

People keep focusing on zimmerman getting out of the truck, following or not following, and other actions by both sides that are not illegal. What really matters is who escalated it to physical violence, and there does not seem to be much in the way of verifiable evidence either way.

[CreekDog]

60. DrHobo: "Personally I am torn between Obama and doing a Paul write in"

drhobo (73 posts)

Mon Oct 15, 2012, 01:44 PM

13. Paul write in is more likely

I still see a lot of Paul signs in yards in my part of PA. If I still had mine it would be out. Personally I am torn between Obama and doing a Paul write in. Romney's pro war stance and disrespect towards Paul severely pissed off me and other Paul supporters.( I actually started hanging around here to see if I could support Obama or not.)

http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1251&pid=144455

not that we had anything in common to begin with.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

64. Uggh ... Ron Paul is fucking stupid.

I'm extremely critical of Obama, but Ron Paul would be a fucking disaster.

[CreekDog]

65. just so we understand that the poster has little use for Obama and Travyon Martin

[Fantastic Anarchist]

66. Oh, I understand.

I apologize for coming across that way.

Two things I really hate:

Ron Paul
People who would speak ill of a murdered teenage boy (regardless of color)

[CreekDog]

109. MIRT just banned DrHobo

no need to apologize. i was never offended by what you said, you were right.

[Fantastic Anarchist]

114. Not a fan of banning ...

... but I did crack a smile.

[JustAnotherGen]

52. Pass on even passing

Trayvon Martin is now dead.

Making a comparison between a 'ghost' and some kind of uh - er - some call it a human being - I call it a Zimmie - can no longer be done.


Maybe if George had not shot Trayvon or if Trayvon had lived it would make sense - but I can't wrap my head around comparing/contrasting a 30 something man and a teenager killed a few weeks after his 17th birthday.

[trueblue2007]

68. i am number 75 for TRAVON

[Xyzse]

69. I don't know Trayvon Martin

I think George Zimmerman is one of the biggest jack@sses out there but I feel like I am not qualified to make a judgement call on this one.

[TacoD]

70. I cannot know their hearts. All I know is one of them is dead at the hands of the other. (nt)

[RebelOne]

71. This is really a stupid poll. Of course Trayvon Martin was the better person. n/t

[MoonRiver]

75. Glad to see Z'man has exactly ZERO votes.

Yay, DU!

[Pretzel_Warrior]

76. Notice all the replies and only 3 rec's. Very telling.

[Boom Sound 416]

95. I've posted 20 times and won't even vote

[gopiscrap]

91. WTF you even have to ask?

Zimmy is a slimeball shit stain on the hemmorhoid of society!

[bluesbassman]

92. You're slipping Creek. Your push poll has been up for almost 24hrs...

and you've only managed to troll up 5 posts from the archives. I think you need a bigger net.

[Boom Sound 416]

98. Ouch

We maybe the Tennessee fan







Go Gators

[bluesbassman]

99. No trumad, over 1000 DU members decided not to vote.

13 chose to indicate what an asinine poll this is.

[pintobean]

100. We've seen this movie before

many times. We know how it ends.

[bluesbassman]

101. Yes, many meta times.

[pintobean]

104. Oh, how I wish I could link to some of that.

I think the best was when there were 2 meta threads about the polls and the OP got them confused. Good meta times.

[CreekDog]

118. So you're saying I have posted mistakenly at times?

[Spirochete]

107. Tough call,

but I'm going to go out on a limb here, and go with the one who DIDN'T murder a fellow citizen in cold blood...

[Chan790]

111. How does GZ have even one vote?

I'm not trying to call anybody out here but I'd like the one vote for Zimmerman to explain their reasoning...I'm honestly curious because I cannot conceive their position and I'm usually pretty good at intuiting such things.

[pintobean]

112. I assume

it's someone messing with the OP. I think it's a reasonable assumption, given the poll and his replies in the thread.

[CreekDog]

119. one of the GZ votes has 1 post in all their time at DU

[pintobean]

122. That's what one of those meta threads was about.

Don't you remember, or did you just not learn anything from it? Hell, it might be the same DUer and he/she is getting a good laugh.

[flvegan]

120. Sadly, it cannot be Trayvon Martin.

Unfortunately, he is deceased. There is no "is" anymore.

Hey look! A Club Penguin advertisement! Why would anyone want to club a penguin? I love lamp.

[CreekDog]

123. i thought of that and you are correct of course

for the sake of simplicity, to avoid any more qualifiers, i wrote it as if they both were present today.

the odd thing is that ordinarily, i recoil at judging one person as better than another because you just can't know someone's heart and motives.

but i posted the poll because Zimmerman has been so over the top that even without seeing beneath the surface, he loses the comparison so clearly that itself is noteworthy.

nice to see your post!

[Orsino]

125. +1 n/t