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Catherina

(35,568 posts)
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:16 PM Sep 2013

The President's Speech Reveals He Has Never Seen War

The President's Speech Reveals He Has Never Seen War

Wednesday, 11 September 2013 15:14 By The Daily Take, The Thom Hartmann Program | Op-Ed

In his big address to the nation last night, President Obama said that the videos of the August 21 gas attack in Damascus are “sickening.” I agree with him – they are sickening. And it is because they are sickening that every American should watch them.

We have a long tradition in this country, at least since Vietnam, of no longer showing genuine images of war. During the opening months of the Iraq war, for example, while international news outlets showed civilians dying in Iraq, domestic ones showed nothing of the sort.

This is just wrong - we don’t need to be afraid of shocking the American people. In a democratic society, we trust everyday people to grapple with complicated issues like war and peace. They can only do this if they see all sides of a story, and when it comes to war, that means images of death and destruction.

But the average American isn’t the only person who needs to think about the true brutality of war. What the president’s speech last night revealed to me is that this president has never actually considered the real consequences of war. Unlike General Eisenhower, or President Kennedy, who had actually been in war and seen the horrors of war, President Obama is operating under the delusion that there are "good" ways to kill people and "bad" ways to kill people. There are no "good" ways to kill people.

I have been in war zones and I have done international relief work in areas recovering from war. I've seen people injured by war and I’ve watched children die from the consequences of war. I've held them in my arms as they died. I’ve seen them die long, drawn-out protracted deaths from malnutrition and disease that were the direct consequences of war. There was nothing civilized or decent about it.

War is organized insanity. And, frankly, it's often not even that organized.

Rather than watching a drone strike from 50,000 feet, our president should look at the bodies blown apart upon impact from the ground. He should watch some footage from actual wars like Vietnam, Iraq, or Afghanistan. If he saw people dying in agony from bullet wounds or shrapnel, he might have different thoughts about drone-bombing people from the sky or arming Syrian rebels, something that will only make Syria more violent.

And if the president is so concerned about the horrors visited on children by war, he should take a look at the images of children being born today in Iraq. We blanketed that country from one end to the other with depleted uranium.

Depleted uranium is radioactive, toxic, and lasts for centuries. And today, Iraq is covered with its dust. This has caused an epidemic of birth defects, all thanks to the United States. Look at these images, Mr. President, and consider doing some remediation in Iraq, cleaning up the depleted uranium, and eliminating it from our arsenal before starting another war in the Middle East.

In Iraq, we dropped cluster bombs and many of those small clusters did not go off. Children later picked them up, thinking they were toys, and immediately lost arms or legs or died. Cluster bombs should be outlawed, but we regularly use them.

All across the world today, people lose their legs as they step on old landmines from previous wars. And yet, the United States has yet to sign onto the international Mine Ban Treaty.

If the American people were to see images like this on their television news on a regular basis, images that the rest of the world sees all the time when war is covered, they might be sufficiently horrified by the entire concept of war to be a little less enthusiastic about "good wars" and "bad wars."

There is no good war. There's only the possibility of a justifiable war – and that would be a war of self-defense. And, our nation has not been attacked by another nation since Pearl Harbor.

It goes without saying that poison gas is an evil way of killing people, and should be banned. Same with nuclear weapons, same with depleted uranium, napalm, white phosphorous, and cluster bombs. And if we’re going in that direction, all war should be banned.

Woodrow Wilson’s original idea for the League of Nations was that World War I would be "the war to end all wars," and that the League of Nations would create world peace. He didn't succeed, but that's now the mandate for the United Nations, and the UN dictates that a country which is a member – like the United States – can only engage in war in self-defense or if authorized by the UN. In Syria, we have neither justification.

The best defense against war is civilization. Building the institutions of civilization requires physical infrastructure, good governance, and the education and empowerment of girls and women.

These things generally are missing in countries at war, and should be the areas where we focus our attention, if we really want to be an agent against war around the world, to the extent that we want to be an example around the world.

Ellen Ratner, Rusty Humphries, Joe Madison, and I were all at Gok Machar, a tiny village in South Sudan new the Darfur border, recently. Refugees from the war in Darfur were streaming in.

As we flew out we could see the president of Sudan's janjaweed troops burning another village in Darfur. People were dying. We saw the refugees.

President Omar al-Bashir of Sudan has been indicted by the criminal court at The Hague, but nobody will arrest him. He continues his war and campaigns of death in Darfur and northern parts of South Sudan.

Where is our noble outrage at that? Similarly, the death toll in the Democratic Republic of Congo is horrific. Why are we, the United States, the supposed policeman of the world, not taking action to stop these humanitarian disasters?

The United States should stop using war as a way to resolve conflict and change the world. We have other tools beyond the hammer of war and every problem in the world is not a nail. Many countries could be helped tremendously– particularly Iraq and Afghanistan – by simple things like building schools and hospitals and helping with infrastructure.

And, of course, the United States itself desperately needs more schools, hospitals, and infrastructure right here at home.

Perhaps, now that our president has seen some limited images of war and is clearly horrified by them, let's have a discussion about all war, and all instruments of war, and the consequences of war. And let's extend that conversation to ways to prevent wars altogether.

The crisis in Syria could be a teaching moment for the United States. We have not had a war on our soil since the Civil War, and we haven't had a draft since Vietnam. Most Americans today have no idea what war is actually like. Let's begin the conversation – a real conversation – about war and peace and the role that the United Nations and the United States can and should play in these issues.

This article was first published on Truthout and any reprint or reproduction on any other website must acknowledge Truthout as the original site of publication.

http://truth-out.org/opinion/item/18767-the-presidents-speech-reveals-he-has-never-seen-war

24 replies = new reply since forum marked as read
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The President's Speech Reveals He Has Never Seen War (Original Post) Catherina Sep 2013 OP
this is true of pretty much the entire political class pscot Sep 2013 #1
Kick! MelungeonWoman Sep 2013 #2
neither did Clinton or Shrub. Pretzel_Warrior Sep 2013 #3
Yeah... zappaman Sep 2013 #4
K & R !!! WillyT Sep 2013 #5
The U.S. could never have achieved such magnificent kill ratios without the use of hyper-expensive indepat Sep 2013 #6
I'm sorry about your cousing. Thanks for a great, true post n/t Catherina Sep 2013 #9
Until three year after my cousin was killed, as a naval reserve officer, I had thought indepat Sep 2013 #21
Kicked and recommended. Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #7
You're always welcome Catherina Sep 2013 #10
Neither has Rand Paul, but ProSense Sep 2013 #8
It's not just about Americans and if any nation bombed the U.S. Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #12
I've always thought this stuff was silly. cali Sep 2013 #11
John Kennedy was indeed a hawk. However, due to truedelphi Sep 2013 #13
Stars. n/t Uncle Joe Sep 2013 #14
Silly? WTF grahamhgreen Sep 2013 #15
if you actually think that I was somehow saying that the horrors of war are silly cali Sep 2013 #24
To Some Americans Who Have Not Served, Wolf Frankula Sep 2013 #16
K&R DeSwiss Sep 2013 #17
And Obama doesn't know this because he never saw war? Lifelong Dem Sep 2013 #18
Neither did FDR. So what? SunSeeker Sep 2013 #19
NOT SEEN WAR....????? revmclaren Sep 2013 #20
Peace. kentuck Sep 2013 #22
K&R idwiyo Sep 2013 #23

pscot

(21,024 posts)
1. this is true of pretty much the entire political class
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 06:49 PM
Sep 2013

of the country, and indeed, the planet. Our ruling elites never find themselves in harms way.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
6. The U.S. could never have achieved such magnificent kill ratios without the use of hyper-expensive
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:42 PM
Sep 2013

and sophisticated weaponry, including Agent Orange in Vietnam, napalm, depleted uranium, white phosphorous. and cluster bombs. Without these weapons and the advanced systems to effectively deliver such, chances are our kill ratios would not have been as magnificent and our own casualties might have been too high for the American public to stomach. My valiant first cousin was killed in 'nam and today I read of horrific deformities among Vietnamese children caused by Agent Orange and wonder if all the sacrifice, the American casualties, the 6,500,000 Vietnamese killed, wounded, or made homeless as a result of U.S. military action, not to mention the damage still being inflicted on the newly born, not to mention our other military actions since Vietnam, were worth the cost, or in tune with Barbara Tuchman's 'The March of Folly', i.e., a genormous follies on 'roids.

indepat

(20,899 posts)
21. Until three year after my cousin was killed, as a naval reserve officer, I had thought
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 10:03 PM
Sep 2013

the U.S. always did the right thing internationally, having questioned nothing big brother did. By 1968, I began to wonder if we were fighting the wrong enemy in the wrong place at the wrong time for the wrong reasons. Thereafter I have had grave reservations about almost every military action the U.S. has initiated, almost every CIA-type action known, and the use of all chemical/nuclear-type weapons heretofore mentioned. My cousin had flown more than fifty combat missions in Korea without even a scratch, but was killed within two weeks after going to Vietnam. I still miss him forty-eight years later and his widow still grieves him.

ProSense

(116,464 posts)
8. Neither has Rand Paul, but
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 07:55 PM
Sep 2013

"Perhaps, now that our president has seen some limited images of war and is clearly horrified by them, let's have a discussion about all war, and all instruments of war, and the consequences of war. And let's extend that conversation to ways to prevent wars altogether. "

...that didn't stop him or others from questioning someone who has seen war. So what's the point? Is that statement above serious? Is the author seriously implying that this is the first time the President has seen "images of war"?

Secretary of State John Kerry delivered a fiery rebuke to Republican Kentucky Sen. Rand Paul’s line of questioning at the Senate Foreign Relations Committee hearing on possible U.S. engagement in Syria Tuesday. Kerry said Americans were not going to be declaring war “in the classic sense,” and that “100% of Americans would say no to such a scenario.

“We don’t want to go to war. We don’t believe we are going to go war in the classic sense of taking american troops and America to war,” Kerry said to Paul. “The president is asking for the authority to do a limited action that will degrade the capacity of a tyrant who has been using chemical weapons to kill his own people. It’s a limited action. It’s limited.”

Kerry continued, abated, by Sen. Paul saying, “if your goal is not to win you shouldn’t be involved.”

“Senator, when people are asked do you want to go to war in Syria? Of course not. Everybody, 100% of Americans will say no, we say no. We don’t want to go to war in Syria either. It is not what we are here to ask. The President it is not asking you to go to war. He is not asking you to declare war. He is not asking you to send one American troop to war,” Kerry said.

Kerry, making the case that action would be limited, said action was needed to degrade Assad’s capacity to use chemical weapons. Arguing again it wasn’t war in the “classic” sense.

“He is simply saying we need to take an action that can degrade the capacity of a man who has been willing to kill his own people by breaking a nearly 100-year-old prohibition, and will we stand up and be counted to say we won’t do that,” Kerry added. “Ya know, I just don’t consider that going to war in the classic sense of coming to congress and asking for a declaration of war and training troops and sending people abroad and putting young americans in harms way. That is not what the president is asking for here.”

- more -

http://www.buzzfeed.com/andrewkaczynski/john-kerry-we-are-not-going-to-war-in-the-classic-sense

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023590177

Uncle Joe

(58,355 posts)
12. It's not just about Americans and if any nation bombed the U.S.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:16 PM
Sep 2013

limited or not, we could consider that an act of war "classic" or unclassic.



“He is simply saying we need to take an action that can degrade the capacity of a man who has been willing to kill his own people by breaking a nearly 100-year-old prohibition, and will we stand up and be counted to say we won’t do that,” Kerry added. “Ya know, I just don’t consider that going to war in the classic sense of coming to congress and asking for a declaration of war and training troops and sending people abroad and putting young americans in harms way. That is not what the president is asking for here.”

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
11. I've always thought this stuff was silly.
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:01 PM
Sep 2013

this piece confirms that. The author is claiming, more or less, that you can't relate to the horrors of war unless you've been in one. Although that obviously deepens an understanding for many people, it's equally clear that that's not universally true.

And I don't think the conclusions drawn by the author about President Obama are necessarily accurate. He was giving a political speech and drawing conclusions about what he feels from that is more than a little iffy.

And John Kennedy? It would not be inaccurate to say he was hawk.

truedelphi

(32,324 posts)
13. John Kennedy was indeed a hawk. However, due to
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:30 PM
Sep 2013

how badly the CIA screwed him over relating to Bay of Pigs, he understood something that many career soldiers eventually figure out, namely, that just because a guy standing over you with a bunch of stripes hanging off his shoulders and who answers to the label of "General,"doesn't mean that the orders he sees as absolute should be followed.

During the Cuban Missile Crisis, this ability to take what generals said and surmised and ordered with more than a grain of salt is exactly why there was negotiations with concessions offered by both sides, undertaken by both Kennedy and Khruschev and which resulted in averting Catastrophic Nuclear War. Generals on both sides were all "Push the button now, quick, before the other side beats us to it."

I doubt that Obama has that ability to take things with a grain of salt. And I hope the world never has to find out whether he does or doesn't.

 

grahamhgreen

(15,741 posts)
15. Silly? WTF
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:45 PM
Sep 2013

I have never alerted on a post, but intimating the horrors of war are silly is beyond the pale.

 

cali

(114,904 posts)
24. if you actually think that I was somehow saying that the horrors of war are silly
Thu Sep 12, 2013, 06:32 AM
Sep 2013

you have real reading comprehension problems. I was saying the articles conclusions were silly. and it's fucking obvious what I was saying.

but go ahead, dear. alert.

Wolf Frankula

(3,600 posts)
16. To Some Americans Who Have Not Served,
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 08:47 PM
Sep 2013

Or otherwise been in a war zone, war is something you watch on TV. You see the cruise missiles strike, and chant USA! USA! War is a video game. War is like football.

Real war is nasty, cruel and harmful. War brutalizes the soldiers and civilians. War is not like football. War is not a video game. War is not a Bruce Willis movie.

Wolf

(Former reporter who was shot at, rocketed, mortared and saw the results of war close up.)

 

Lifelong Dem

(344 posts)
18. And Obama doesn't know this because he never saw war?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:08 PM
Sep 2013
There are no "good" ways to kill people. Yeah okay.

SunSeeker

(51,550 posts)
19. Neither did FDR. So what?
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:09 PM
Sep 2013

You don't need to serve in the military to know what war is about and to want to avoid war. Nor does being in a war prevent you from pushing for war later (e.g., John McCain).

President Obama knows the horrors of war. He is not an idiot. Those videos of children writhing in pain are not his first images of war. That Op ed is based on a false premise: that Obama does not know the horrors of war.

Obama is trying to clamp down on CW not only because of the children torturously murdered, but to protect our soldiers from the same fate. He knows and knew the horrors of napalm. That is why on his first day in office, he signed the ban on it that all prior presidents resisted. CW are different than bullets or missiles. CW kill everything for miles indiscriminately, particularly civilians who tend not to have gas masks. You cannot aim CW to hit a particular person, only a particular area. They have a wider human death toll than a conventional bomb. Of course, conventional war produces horrific scenes on its own. Obama does not require military service to know that.

Obama knows what war looks like. That is why he is ending the war in Afghanistan and ended the war in Iraq.

revmclaren

(2,520 posts)
20. NOT SEEN WAR....?????
Wed Sep 11, 2013, 09:10 PM
Sep 2013

My Long over due rant has now come:

People here really do not seem to be up on the Constitution and the roll of The President Of The United States even though many shout from the keyboards how anti-constitution this administration is.

Here is a link to the simple Scholastic description of Obama's duties.....

http://www.scholastic.com/browse/article.jsp?id=4684

And for those who have already RECed or praised the post, here an excerpt....

I have BOLDED the part you need to learn. Enjoy!

'Job Description

The Constitution assigns the president two roles: chief executive of the federal government and COMMANDER IN CHIEF OF THE ARMED FORCES. As Commander in Chief, the president has the authority to send troops into combat, and is the only one who can decide whether to use nuclear weapons.

As chief executive, he enforces laws, treaties, and court rulings; develops federal policies; prepares the national budget; and appoints federal officials. He also approves or vetoes acts of Congress and grants pardons.'

Another words... HE'S THE HEAD OF THE TROOPS, COMMANDERS, GENERALS! THE WAR.....

And as for not seeing the horrors of war ....most here on DU except for our brave members who saw the horrors first hand in battle have only seen the news footage and the YouTube videos of the carnage. Obama is constantly briefed on ALL conflicts going on in the world and if you think he is not shown photos and videos that would make the YouTube carnage look like an Easter party you are living deep in denial! And Obama actually visits the countries where violence is happening AND he actually talks to world leaders and the people in the middle of all the shit instead of just posting quotes from them like many 'Not To Be Named DUers!'

If you really want to help stop wars and violence against men, women, and children, stop pounding the keyboards and start pounding the pavement with petitions and picket signs.

You are doing worse than less than the administration is to help. And that's pitiful!




Now, I'm going to take a 3 month break from all the back-patting, Ego craving, mud-slinging and finish up on some of my personal writing. This place is getting too toxic. Will read the responses 90 days from today.

Peace people...but I doubt it.




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