Pregnant in Indiana? Get Ready for Forced Drug Testing

[G_j]

http://www.care2.com/causes/pregnant-in-indiana-get-ready-for-forced-drug-testing.html

Pregnant in Indiana? Get Ready for Forced Drug Testing

Robin Marty
Sep 15, 2013

Lots of women already pee on a stick to confirm a pregnancy. Now the Indiana Attorney General wants women to pee once more — this time as a mandatory drug test.

Citing the rising costs of caring for allegedly drug addicted babies on delivery, Indiana A.G. Greg Zoeller is proposing a mandatory drug test for all pregnant women and girls. According to the A.G., testing and early treatment could save at least $30 million in hospital costs in caring for newborns with Neonatal Abstinence Syndrome (NAS). “You can reduce the length of stay for the newly born baby from six weeks to two weeks, the better health of the baby as well as the costs,” A.G. Zoeller told Indiana Public Media in an interview.

“Treatment” is a vague word. For a number of states that have proposed bills to deal with drug abuse while pregnant, those who are found to be abusing drugs have seen charges under “chemical endangerment” laws that have put them behind bars. Others have faced murder charges when their babies were born prematurely. Mississippi even went as far as to try for a new law to drug test pregnant women arrested in related drug crimes, with the intent to charge her with child abuse if she tested positive.

National Advocates for Pregnant Women has spent years tracking the growing number of states charging pregnant women for a variety of crimes that stem in essence from being pregnant and seen as endangering a fetus, with much stiffer penalties than those that a non-pregnant drug user would receive.

Targeting of pregnant women for the crime of not being a good enough pregnant person is bad in itself, but what A.G. Zoeller is proposing goes even further. By declaring that all pregnant patients should be tested for drugs, he has given up even the shred of pretense for probable cause that the other examples use to justify the testing. In this case, just being pregnant is enough of a reason to force a person to undergo a screening.

..more..

[hobbit709]

1. I think A.G. Zoeller should set the example by being publicly tested first.

The public has the right to know what he's on to come up with this crap.

[TeamPooka]

31. he needs to pass an IQ test first

[hobbit709]

32. That's a given. He's a repuke isn't he.

[bettyellen]

2. when are they going to test men and prosecute them for the birth defects they pass on?

That would be the next logical step.

[HappyMe]

5. Drug use and genetics aren't the same thing.

Women also can pass on birth defects.

[bettyellen]

7. drug use and alcoholism can damage sperm and cause defects........

60% of birth defects are from unknown causes- some of that can be explained by the reluctance to do research on men's contribution to the problem. We don't really care about the babies if we are not studying the fathers or holding them accountable too.


"Scientists at the seminar listed problems including pregnancy loss, low birth weight, increased birth defects and childhood cancers in children fathered by men who were exposed to toxins, from pesticides and prescription drugs to wartime chemicals. Vietnam veterans exposed to agent orange, for example, have been shown to have children with increased rates of spina bifida.

"Men who drink excessive amounts of alcohol produce higher rates of sperm with abnormalities," said Daniels. "There are many potential sources of harm to foetal health that remain unexamined. When 60% of birth defects are of unknown origin, why are we not examining one obvious potential source of harm?"

In a study presented at the same seminar, Anway described how his team exposed pregnant rats to the fungicide vinclozolin and found that the sperm of males had been affected. Anway explained the reason behind the changes as epigenetic, where chemicals in the environment can switch genes in the body on and off. Epigenetic changes are not usually passed to children unless they happen in germ cells such as sperm."


http://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/feb/19/health.drugsandalcohol

[HappyMe]

9. Hey, I didn't say it was right.

You didn't say anything in your post about drugs or alcohol.

[bettyellen]

20. sorry! I thought it was obvious that I was on topic.

A lot of people do not know the Dad could be at fault too. I wonder if that would be a good basis for a legal challenge to some of these laws. I'd bet a lot of the fathers in these cases are also drug users and contributing plenty to their kids' illnesses.

[Orrex]

23. That's a reasonable suggestion

If they're going to force the mother to be tested, then they should certainly test the father as well. IMO they shouldn't do either by force, but it should apply equally to both parents.


From a practical standpoint, though, I'm not sure how clearly they would be able to associate a particular father's drug use/toxin exposure to a particular child's birth defect, or if it could even distinguish between environmental toxins versus illicit drugs. That is, if the father used drugs and the child manifests a birth defect, it's harder to confirm a causal relationship than if the mother is currently using drugs and the child manifests a defect.

Again, I'm not saying that the mother (or father) should be forcibly tested, but there may be practical reasons why the mother is tested rather than the father.

[bettyellen]

24. I agree completely.

[leftyohiolib]

13. oh for f's sake - more tit-for-tat b,s.

[bettyellen]

17. women ALONE being prosecuted for troubled pregnancies or birth defects is a serious issue....

and there should be serious pushback because 1/2 of the equation- the Dad- is missing.
Why has the medical establishment tested men for dosages of cures and not women? Why do they study women's contribution to birth defects - and criminalize it- without doing serious studies on men?

It's not tit for tat- it's about a very significant issue for women in America these days. It's political and very worthy of discussion what the aims of these laws are and if they are really there to protect children's health. Is that so hard to understand?

If you take this personally for some odd reason- don't blame me. Our society is fucked up- and part of why we are all here is to discuss why.

[leftyohiolib]

28. they arent doing studies on birth defects they are focusing on pregnant women doing drugs and

giving birth to troubled babies.dad doesnt force-feed drugs into the mother's body. her body her choice and she chose to put drugs into it and that has nothing to do with men.

'Citing the rising costs of caring for allegedly drug addicted babies on delivery' this is the focus of the article and you said well if the women are being tested then the men must be tested for something too. that made it t4t.

you cant prevent genetic birth defects like you can prevent defects caused by the mother not staying off the drugs.

i dont take it personally but if we're to have a discussion about it let's not get side tracked off the topic which is womyn doing drugs while pregnant not men and their defective genes. no one is being punished for things beyond their controll. (Yet anyway)

[bettyellen]

36. men who do drugs can pass on birth defects *because of the drugs* too.

why doesn'tt anyone talk about it? or study it more?

[leftyohiolib]

37. some people are talking about it - here's results of a study posted in the guardian

Men should not smoke, drink or take unnecessary drugs if they are planning to become fathers to avoid causing health problems for their children, a health expert has warned.

Scientists found that toxic chemicals can damage sperm, which then pass altered genes onto babies. In experiments on rats Matthew Anway of the University of Idaho found that some garden chemicals caused problems such as damaged and overgrown prostates, infertility and kidney problems, all of which were present up to four generations later.

It is well known that a mother's health is critically important in the resulting health of her baby, but there is now a growing body of evidence from both animal and human studies that paternal exposure to toxins can also adversely effect the development of a fetus, and that this can be passed down the generations.

"Men who drink excessive amounts of alcohol produce higher rates of sperm with abnormalities," said Daniels. "There are many potential sources of harm to foetal health that remain unexamined. When 60% of birth defects are of unknown origin, why are we not examining one obvious potential source of harm?"

source:http://www.theguardian.com/society/2008/feb/19/health.drugsandalcohol

[Drale]

3. Ok I live in Illinois and my girlfriend lives in Illinois

We are planning on moving in together at the beginning of next year and then getting married. She wants to live in Indiana because that's were her mom lives and her mom is really all she has left, but I really don't want to live in Indiana because frankly its a shit-hole state. Any ideas how I can talk her in to moving to Illinois without using stats and such?

[Iris]

4. Get her mom to move to IL?

[Drale]

8. I thought about that but the issue is

she would need a job in Illinois because right now she's living pay check to pay check and that would not pay for rent plus travel back and forth to the jobs between gas and the one freaking toll that's on I-294/I-80.

[woodsprite]

6. It was required that I be tested for drugs when I had my son

Apparently in DE, if you have "precipitous" labor, they have to test you.

Never mind the fact that it was my 2nd child, was being closely monitored for a high-risk pregnancy the whole 35 wks, I had been released the day before from the hospital after being in there with a magnesium drip for a week due to early labor (stemming from a fall on my belly in my in-laws driveway), and having gestational diabetes. My docs apologized profusely, but said it was the law since it was under a certain number of hours labor (maybe anything under 4hrs - because I was at 3hrs - 6:30-9:30).

[MuseRider]

12. Wow.

I never had a labor over 2 1/2 hours. Just built that way is what my doc said. Apparently. Nobody ever questioned that and if they had I would have felt like a criminal. That is really sad.

Both of my sons were born healthy, I was in my 30's.

[hootinholler]

10. Let me guess

He's an anti-nanny state republican.

[progressoid]

21. Yeah, funny how that works.

[KurtNYC]

25. Yes. He is very worried about Mary Poppin Pills.

[PowerToThePeople]

11. I am not completely against drug testing

There are so many things people abuse today that negatively impact society.

Ideally we would improve conditions such that people no longer look to substance abuse. But, even people in relatively good conditions have substance abuse issues.

What we need to do is change the message. Consumerism as a value system fails.

[leftyohiolib]

14. There are so many things people abuse today that negatively impact society. like overeating,smoking

people not excersing enough -

[PowerToThePeople]

15. This is true too

I am against those things as well. But, I have seen a healthy person go to very unhealthy and then dead within a very short time frame on some drugs that are out there today. On the spectrum of bad, some drugs are at the extreme far end.

[petronius]

16. What is it about that space between a woman and her doctor that proves so

irresistibly attractive to Republicans? They're like evil little lemmings...

[Roland99]

18. And look at all that DNA the State could start logging for future profiling.

[2ndAmForComputers]

19. OF COURSE rich, white, Xian, Republican young women will be tested just like poor minority women.

If you believe that, I have a bridge to sell you.

[Comrade Grumpy]

34. Would that be the bridge the rich are forbidden from sleeping under as well as the poor?

[bahrbearian]

22. They should try free contraceptives 1st.

[joc46224]

26. This is the most short-sighted, idiotic idea

This type of legislation never works. Think about it. Someone with a drug problem is pregnant, that's someone who REALLY needs prenatal care and counseling. But now this person knows that if they go to their doctor they'll get drug tested and forcibly thrown in jail (this bill doesn't say that apparently but most likely that will be the "treatment" these women will get). What do you think is going to happen? These women will NOT go to their doctors and get the prenatal care they need. The babies will end up in even worse shape! I remember when I was pregnant and there was a similar bill being considered in my state. My OBGYN helped out in a clinic that was in the poorest section of town and she saw a lot of drug addicted or alcoholic pregnant women. She told me she was praying the bill didn't pass because she knew those patients would stop coming in at all. She said "At least now I can see them and monitor their health and the baby's. I've even been able to convince a few to get help and get them in a free clinic. If this law passes I know these women won't even come in and I won't be able to help any of them.". Luckily the bill didn't pass.

The bottom line is if you are addicted to drugs, the threat of being put in jail isn't going to "scare you straight", it's going to scare you from getting any help at all.

[Maeve]

29. My first thought as well

It will result in MORE deaths and problems, not less.

[ConcernedCanuk]

30. Close, but no cigar - "This is the most short-sighted, idiotic idea"

.
.
.

It certainly is a short-sighted, idiotic idea, - problem is -

our governments make so many ideas/decisions of the same cloth it's hard to determine which idea is the "worst".

But this one is right up there.

Good post.



CC

[Xithras]

35. That also brings up all sorts of 5th Amendment issues.

Forcing someone to take a drug test that could lead to criminal charges would violate their 5th Amendment rights against self-incrimination. If the law did not contain an exemption stating that the test results couldn't be used criminally, a woman could simply decline the test citing the 5th Amendment.

[PotatoChip]

38. Good point.

It is one that I was about to make until I read your post.

Welcome to DU!

[Dawson Leery]

27. The Christian Taliban rolls on.

[gopiscrap]

33. God damn republicans just can't mind their own fucking business can they?