Guns & Kids -- This Is Just WRONG!!!!!

[napkinz]

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=196941357123890&set=a.102749673209726.8582.102735583211135&type=1&ref=nf

[el_bryanto]

1. hmmmmm

If the girl in the pic were 15-16 would you have the same objection?

That girl does look way to young though.

Bryant

[napkinz]

3. Let's arm everyone; lets teach every little boy and girl how to use a gun ... really?

More guns = more violence and more death.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

4. I don't know about you, but I have no plans to give my daughter a gun when she turns 15.

And I'm not going to be told I'm a bad father for that, either.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

2. Some of the Morlocks will say exactly just that.

I'm sure you'll see one of them soon.

[napkinz]

8. yep, they've arrived!

nt

[loli phabay]

21. well if you post something in gd you are going to get different opinions

If you are just looking for high fives and affirmation then you need to post in the protected group.

[NYC_SKP]

26. Remember to use namecalling when trying to advance your progressive ideas.

It never ceases to amaze me.

The sense of superiority coupled with such unproductive and divisive behaviors.

[loli phabay]

27. yup, its almost as if its not a discussion thats wanted but rather just attacks

[napkinz]

36. I didn't expect total agreement ... I am shocked the talking points sound

like those one would find on some far-right blog.

Shocked ...and dismayed.

Imagine if someone has posted a thread with a Facebook image that promoted teaching children to hate, or that promoted homophobia or racism, or gutting Medicare and Social Security, etc. ... and most of the responses condoned that Facebook image making the rounds.

So who are we?

(When I woke up and saw the image this morning I was horrified. I just shook my head and thought, "This just isn't right. I can't believe this crap." Besides unfriending the idiots who posted and liked the image on Facebook, I just needed to share it here to let others know -- though I'm sure many have seen shit like this before -- what the response is to the whole gun issue. And I posted it here also as a form of catharsis. Just needed to get it off my chest.)

[loli phabay]

38. how is promoting teaching women self defence promoting hate or anything like it.

The picture states truthfully that a restraining order is just a poece of paper that is worthless if the other party ignores it.

[napkinz]

43. aren't all laws in a sense just a piece of paper ...

... so let's ARM EVERYONE because all the laws that are meant to protect us or thwart crime are just a piece of paper. I mean, literally, all laws are on paper, and waving a piece of paper isn't going to stop any crime, so let's ALL have firearms. Is that the road we want to go down?

[loli phabay]

47. when you have someone who is going yo go out of their way to harm or kill you

Then having the option of defending yoirself is a good thing.

[napkinz]

52. the presence of a gun makes it more likely that

someone -- who was "the good guy" up to that moment -- is going to harm or kill you.

How many guns in the home wind up being used when there is a domestic dispute. Husband kills wife or wife kills husband after some heated verbal exchange. Things get out of control. They are not thinking in their right mind when they get angry, enraged, etc.

And what about all the accidents -- we have statistics for that category too.

On whole, more guns mean more deaths, not fewer. I posted a study about this just a few days ago (and there are NUMEROUS studies that confirm the findings below):


http://www.democraticunderground.com/?com=view_post&forum=1002&pid=3678300

Gun Violence Study Links State Levels Of Gun Ownership And Homicide

09/13/2013
By Braden Goyette

A new study of gun violence published by the American Journal of Public Health found that states with greater levels of gun ownership tend to have higher rates of gun-related murder.

The study, conducted by Boston University professor Michael Siegel and coauthors Craig S. Ross and Charles King III, examines this relationship in all 50 states from 1981 to 2010. The researchers found that "for each percentage point increase in gun ownership, the firearm homicide rate increased by 0.9 percent."

The authors note that, though they can't prove a causal relationship between higher levels of gun ownership and homicide, "states with higher rates of gun ownership had disproportionately large numbers of deaths from firearm-related homicides."

Their findings echo past studies about the relationship between gun ownership and homicide, though Siegel, Ross and King look at the relationship over a larger window of time than previous research.

According to a fact sheet from the Harvard School of Public Health:

Our review of the academic literature found that a broad array of evidence indicates that gun availability is a risk factor for homicide, both in the United States and across high-income countries. Case-control studies, ecological time-series and cross-sectional studies indicate that in homes, cities, states and regions in the US, where there are more guns, both men and women are at higher risk for homicide, particularly firearm homicide.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2013/09/13/gun-violence-study_n_3924063.html

[Brickbat]

41. What it should show you is that pursuing strict gun regulation with the goal of reducing gun

violence is not a sound political strategy.

[napkinz]

44. more guns = more violence

So we'll just have to disagree.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

86. Wow, and did they ever. nt

[napkinz]

95. this must be a parallel DU Universe I woke up to

Up is down, left is right ...

Just a thought ... when it comes to guns and healthcare, the UK got it right.

Well, tomorrow is another day. I'll try looking on "the Bright Side of Life."

[Lizzie Poppet]

5. I learned at seven.

[Brickbat]

6. Mine will be learning this fall.

[onehandle]

7. Gun nuts put hot women in fake setups all the time to pretend that guns are not...

...primarily a man's toy.

The hot woman is a paid model (she looks 21, at most, for one thing). The little girl is probably a model or a gun nut's kid.


The whole thing is designed for web clicks and illusion.

These are the faces of gun ownership:

[napkinz]

12. still what it's promoting is LIKED by a certain population on Facebook

That it appeals to a number and may even persuade some should scare us.

How many threads have we seen over the years about children who had been TAUGHT how to use a gun actually using a gun to kill their sibling, parent, or grandparent?

[Daemonaquila]

149. That's one of the most sexist things I've heard all day.

Among my friends with guns, it's just about 50/50 men and women. At organized shooting events or practices, it's about 70/30 men to women. Fewer women shoot than men, but don't make silly assumptions based on a photo of a gun show, a particular venue where men might congregate in larger numbers than women... this year.

[rl6214]

9. I would rather teach them, especially the dangers of handling a gun

Then have them NOT know and dangerously pick one up out of curiosity.

[Ron Green]

123. I'm guessing you mean "than" instead of "then."

The meaning is quite different.

[rl6214]

148. Ok

[Whisp]

10. I see an ad for John Cornyn here on the GD page.

[aikoaiko]

11. I agree that her stance could be improved, but its not all wrong

This is better.

[IMG][/IMG]

[Throd]

13. My daughters are still young (5 & 9) but I will provide them firearms training when they're teens.

Teaching basic firearms safety is the responsible thing to do.

[loli phabay]

19. yup, especially if there are guns in the house, my daughter is six and has her own .22 that she like

To shoot at targets with, my eight year old son is not so into shooting as his sister, he prefers fishing and fires. If you have guns in the house then you need to teach gun safety.

[napkinz]

14. Wow! So more people here support teaching their children how to use firearms?

I'm shocked.

Really.

I thought we were the rational ones.

No wonder we're never going to make progress on this issue.

Ugh!

[Throd]

17. Any idiot can pick up a gun. I want my kids to understand how to use them safely.

They will also learn the destructive power of firearms in the process.

I think it is more dangerous for them to be ignorant and mystified by them.

[Lizzie Poppet]

42. We ARE the "rational ones."

There is nothing irrational about choosing to possess and use firearms, so long as it is done in a responsible manner. If there are children in a household in which this choice is made, it is irresponsible not to teach them about these weapons and the danger they present if used irresponsibly. Whether or not the child learns to shoot is really something for the child to decide (and not be pushed into). If they are interested, then the parents need to teach safety and responsibility first and foremost.

[spin]

79. It is rational and wise for gun owners to teach their children basic gun safety. ...

Of course any training should be in the presence of a responsible adult and all firearms should be properly secured in a home with children.

In our nation firearms are legally owned by an estimated 80,000,000 citizens and 99.9% use their firearms in a responsible manner for hunting, target shooting and self defense.

I can understand why many people hate firearms and I also can understand why many people enjoy owning firearms. I have personally witnessed the tragedy the misuse of a firearm can cause but I also have enjoyed target shooting handguns for over 40 years.

Hopefully in the future both sides of the gun control debate will sit down at a table and agree on some much needed improvements to our gun control laws. Before that ever happens it will be necessary for both sides to show a little respect for the other and understand they both have valid points to make.

[Go Vols]

133. +1

[GalaxyHunter]

15. well it's not an AR-15 in her hand, so whats the big deal?

everyone has hand guns, but only AR-15's kill...

[PowerToThePeople]

16. a can of mace works too. n/t

[loli phabay]

20. sometimes, if your talking purely for self defence then mace only works on a percentage of people

A high percentage granted, but it has less effect on the insane, drugged or just very aggresive. For me i hate pepper spray but it does not debillitate me enough to stop my actions.

[PowerToThePeople]

22. It does not have to stop anyone.

It just has to slow them down enough for an escape to occur.

[loli phabay]

24. erm, you do realise its not going to slow everyone down as listed above

What if there is no escape, all in all i would prefer my wife frinstance have her forty than a can of oc. Ymmv

[PowerToThePeople]

31. A gun may not stop those same people. n/t

[loli phabay]

32. much better odds it will,

[PowerToThePeople]

35. Please link the statistical study proving your claim. n/t

[loli phabay]

39. how about you use common sense, you can fight through pepper spray

Its harder to fight through a couple of forties in your chest.

[PowerToThePeople]

46. "common sense" is a term I hear often

from Libertarians and other RW groups. They typically have none. I would avoid using this terminology to back up any claims you make. Stick with facts that you can back up.

[loli phabay]

48. lol, so you are in fact saying you have no common sense.

Fact if you spray me i can still kick your arse, fact if you put a couple of forties in me then even if i try to kick your arse i wont be doing it for long.

[PowerToThePeople]

50. I doubt you could do what you claim

under any circumstances.

loli phabay
48. lol, so you are in fact saying you have no common sense.

View profile
Fact if you spray me i can still kick your arse, fact if you put a couple of forties in me then even if i try to kick your arse i wont be doing it for long.

[loli phabay]

51. be much easier if you spray me than double tap me though.

[PowerToThePeople]

54. Still no stats backing that claim up.

And, even if someone is breaking into your home, a non-lethal response is better. Maybe they can get some help and become a good citizen and help in the world. They certainly won't be able to if they are 6 feet under.

[loli phabay]

57. best is everyone walks away, worst is that you dont. everything else is in between

Not everyone who breaks into homes is just there for your tv, i would rather have my wife and kids in the locked bedroom with her twelve gauge than them locked in the bedroom defenceless.

[Lee-Lee]

124. Basic law enforcement training- you have to get sprayed and still be able to fight and handcuff

They don't just spray you- you get sprayed and are still expected to not lose your weapon in a fight, be able to use it, etc.

[PowerToThePeople]

125. so what you are saying is

that we have a gun nut cop who is gonna "put a couple of forties" into someone? THAT'S PERFECT!!

[Lee-Lee]

128. Just saying it is possible to still function after being pepper sprayed, it is not the end-all

It is at best a compromise self defense weapon. Better than hands, in some cases better than a tazer in some cases worse.

[Hoyt]

131. Too bad Zimmerman wasn't satisfied with stalking people with mace, rather than a gun.

[furious]

126. One of the lessons taught in all academies.

[Lee-Lee]

129. Yep. We had to get sprayed, and then

Still fight a subject who was trying to take our weapon, get cuffs on them, and use the radio after being sprayed and a count to 5 for it to take full effect.

[furious]

130. Same thing here.

Also, got tear gassed in boot camp.

[nolabear]

55. Interesting use of language in your posts.

While I don't begrudge you the right to teach your kids and to bear arms, your "a couple of forties" and the like used repeatedly in your posts gives me the impression there's a kind of swagger attached that would, if I was in your presence, worry a little. Shooting someone is a terrible, horrifying thing to do, whether it's necessary or right. "putting a couple of forties" in someone denies that sadness and horror, which imo is a healthy response to taking a life and causing tremendous pain for those connected to that life.

That, in large measure, is what worries me about people who like guns. And I'm not talking about for target practice. I'm talking about shooting living human beings who won't ever breathe again, whose families and shooters themselves will be impacted for life.

[PowerToThePeople]

59. I agree.

Language of violence.

[loli phabay]

60. the reaction depends on the individual and the circumstances of the shoot

For some people its very devastating, others can live with it easier. There is no right or wrong reaction its the circumstances are what dictates rigjt or wrong.

[PowerToThePeople]

64. Moral Relativism..

[loli phabay]

67. no, just answering the mans question. Or do you not think shooting someone in defence or of

Another would make you feel different than if it was by accident etc etc.

[nolabear]

65. There's no right or wrong, but it's not cavalier either. Killing deserves respect for what it is.

And it impacts people in ways some people can't imagine.

[loli phabay]

70. yup, ive seen some who just wont go near another gun to others who handle it well

Everyone is different and every circumstance is different.

[nolabear]

75. I've never known a killed person's family that handled it "well".

And actually the definition of "well" we may disagree on. I don't think it's better to fall apart, but I do think it's better to be sad that you killed someone. I would and have helped people find peace in such circumstances, but to "put a forty" in someone isn't the same attitude as ending someone's life and profoundly altering the lives of those around both killer and killed. That's my concern and my point. There seems to me to be denial in the distancing language.

[loli phabay]

76. distance is what you have to do, when you have a shoot its something that you had to do

Its not something you want to do but if you have to then you have to look to your own welfare. Its callous but the others family should not be yoir concern but other peoples or it will eat you up.

[nolabear]

84. I don't think t's either/or. You should be concerned but not "eaten up".

Personally I'm horrified at the thought of having guns around, but then I don't live a life that puts me regularly in the path of people I'd need a restraining order against.

But about "have to", I've known people on both sides of the situation, and it's not always clear who is frightening or threatening whom. I've known situations where the person who has the restraining order on them is not at all the aggressor and situations where the person defending himself was the victim of the violence of third parties (including the police). Not having a gun be the go-to in the situation depicted here would save more people than it would harm, I think.

[LanternWaste]

121. To be honest, I'd be rather wary of anyone who could kill and then shrug it off

To be honest, I'd be rather wary of anyone who could kill and then shrug it off; just as I'm wary of hunters who are entertained by killing.

Not the type pf psyche I'd want to be around...

[Lizzie Poppet]

72. Agreed.

I am willing to use lethal force in self-defense...but I don't kid myself that even if the attacker never managed to lay hands on me that I'd emerge unscathed. I'm far from the most empathetic person in the world, but I have no doubt that I'd need some serious counseling after such an incident. No sane person can kill another human being without a profound effect. I think this holds true even in the most obviously justified cases.

[Lizzie Poppet]

63. The problem here is that there may not BE a specific study on this.

I seem to recall a set of FBI stats on most effective means of defense against assault, but a (very) casual Google search didn't find it. If the question were of greater import to me, I could certainly look deeper. However, in the absence of verifiable data, there's nothing wrong with employing reason and common sense, at least in an informal setting like this one.

So does it make sense that a comparatively powerful handgun round like the .40 S&W would have a higher likelihood of stopping an assailant than chemical sprays available to the public? To me it certainly does.

[loli phabay]

71. i wonder how the study would go, okay first we spray you then shoot you

You tell us what one hurts the most. I know from experience if i am sprayed i can still fight, tasered im out, and shot then no chance am i even thinking of still fighting if i can retreat for a medic.

[Lizzie Poppet]

74. If I recall correctly...

If I recall correctly, the study was an analysis of various types of response to attempts at robbery, sexual and other kinds of assaults, etc....what I believe are called "crimes against the person." The categories of response included non-resistance, too. The most effective response (judged by whether or not the victim sustained significant physical harm) was resistance with a firearm. I should undertake a more serious search for it...

Personally, I suspect I'd be incapacitated by any of the options you list. I'm quite small, for one thing...

[loli phabay]

77. with oc spray its not size its aggression and anything that helps that aggression

Ie insanity or drugs, also some people just dont have as bad a reaction. For some oc is worse than the taser. Every person reacts differently.

[Decaffeinated]

33. You can ignore and fight through the pain of OC...

It's significantly more difficult to attack with a severed aorta and a pneuomothorax...

[GreenStormCloud]

18. The litle girl looks too young. She should be about ten for gun instruction. N/T

[NYC_SKP]

23. Good idea but way too young, IMO. And is that a silencer?

Stupid picture, not a bad idea.

Gun safety should be taught to all kids as some age, things like how to report a found gun or ammo, not to touch them, etc.

And, at some age, girls should have some form of self-defense instruction.

Guns might not be the best choice universally, but the message is still valid.

A restraining order is just a piece of paper and women should be able to protect themselves.

[loli phabay]

25. restraining orders only work on people who are able to abide by them

But as we all know there are plenty of people who dont give a damn and thats when you need other options.

[oldhippie]

29. Silencers are good, especially for indoor shooting ....

Helps prevent ear damage. I wish I had always had them. My hearing sucks.

My kids learned to handle firearms at age six.

[NYC_SKP]

37. Good point. (nt)

[Tommy_Carcetti]

101. You see, this just makes zero sense to me.

The whole notion of teaching elementary school aged children "gun safety" by actually having them use the gun. The idea being that they'll "respect" the gun and it somehow "demystifies" the curiousity about them.

It makes about as much sense as teaching a kid about stranger danger by having him or her approach random strangers at the playground.

[NYC_SKP]

109. I would not teach gun use to kids, no I would not, that's for parents to decide.

But I most definitely would teach gun safety, show then the carnage, scare them to death, tell them how dangerous they are.

Tell them what to do if they find one, tell them how to talk to parents about getting a gun safe or trigger guard.

Like we do with STDs, Drugs, Tobacco, we should do with guns.

However, some have criticized this idea, won't have it, think it's a way to indoctrinate.

Well, I suppose it could be if done wrong, but it's not what I'm talking about when I mention universal gun safety classes for kids.

[ileus]

28. My daughter hated shooting pistols even with hearing protection

she said they're too loud, I had to buy a 22 conversion for one of the AR's before she'd shoot it. She's now 11 and has done a lot better this year at the range.

Just like in the pic a friend of mine lets his 3yo girl shoot his p22 with the suppressor. Great accessory for training the new shooter.

[Paladin]

30. You're revealing a lot more about yourself than you intended with that post.

And none of what is revealed is good.

[ileus]

34. maybe hated was too stong a wording...

she didn't like shooting pistols as much as she did the rifles (22's)

This year she's finally made it over the hump and enjoys shooting the AR's, rifles, and centerfire pistols.

She's even decided to give deer hunting a shot this year.

[tblue]

56. Please tell me where you live

so I don't ever go there or let anyone in my care come within a mile of you and yours.

[Lizzie Poppet]

58. I suspect the feeling is mutual.

It certainly is in my case...

[loli phabay]

62. by that method you are ruling out ever traveling anywhere in the rural areas of the US

[ileus]

80. You're probably safe unless you drive off the interstate (77)

through the guardrail, and about 1/2 mile over an embankment, through the woods, one field and three fences. Even then we'll see you coming and will have time to get out of your way so you won't be a danger to us.

[loli phabay]

83. nah the tank traps would stop the vehicle long before then.

[CreekDog]

153. You're a single issue poster, posting only when talking about guns

you did make an exception to voice support for a right wing Voter ID law in Indiana though.



http://www.democraticunderground.com/discuss/duboard.php?az=show_mesg&forum=102&topic_id=3287101&mesg_id=3288227

[pintobean]

154. Creepy...

[CreekDog]

155. yes you are

[Tommy_Carcetti]

93. My sincere hope is that it's some sort of Andy Kaufman-esqe performance art.

At least I wish it was.

[Paladin]

96. With 35% of his DU output being pro-gun posts in Gun Control/RKBA?

Don't get your hopes up.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

97. It used to be higher.

They got tired of waiting for the Eloi to come on down.

[PowerToThePeople]

40. I am against guns

My son's Uncle was killed in a gun accident by a friend of his. Accidental discharge. No one in the family is any better off because of the guns he owned.

[hunter]

45. Nerve agents are much more effective than mace or bullets.

Like RAID for a nasty ex.

Watch the cockroach curl up seize and die as you cackle with self-righteous glee.

A Taser to the groin is another effective alternative.

.

.

.



We had a neighbor who shot her boyfriend in a domestic dispute. She shot him in the leg. It wasn't that interesting, just sad mostly.

[otohara]

49. I Don't Want My Daughter Dating A Gun Owner

so I would teach her to choose her boyfriends carefully and to avoid men with guns and especially men with several guns.

[loli phabay]

53. and yet like all parents, we are not going to have much of a say in who our kids date when

Grow up.

[otohara]

66. Oh You'd Be Surprised

If you come from an abusive dysfunctional family - then your daughter will gravitate towards the same.

If you grew up in a mellow non dysfunctional family, daughters will find men like their father.

Any girl who ends up with my son will never have to fear him.

[loli phabay]

68. i hope not, but you never know whats in peoples hearts and what they can become.

[otohara]

87. But Aren't Gun Folks

always pointing to the fact that many of our mass shooters and gang members come from single parents?

Would you want your daughter dating a member of a gang?

[loli phabay]

89. hell no, but when shes an adult she gets to make that call. i cant exactly force her not to date

Who she wants can i.

[MicaelS]

69. Attitudes like yours are why many gun owners..

Don't want anyone to know they have guns.

[loli phabay]

73. good point.

[PowerToThePeople]

82. ya, withholding the truth is a great idea

so much good can come from it. Trust me, people will know you are a gun owner even if you do not come right out and say it.

[Throd]

85. How? Please tell.

[loli phabay]

91. psychic powers i think.

[PowerToThePeople]

94. It would be like explaining to a drug addict

how you can tell they are using by their actions.

Or a smoker how you can smell the smoke remnants.

Or a heavy drinker how they have the shakes the next day.

None of them can see it. Gun owners can not see how their attitudes are vastly different than non gun owners. It stands out. It is easy to see when you are not immersed in it.

[Throd]

99. What utter bullshit.

I have been very surprised both ways when my assumptions were proved wrong.

[PowerToThePeople]

116. of course you dont believe

you are addicted to guns.

[Throd]

119. You're addicted to dogma

It makes your life easier.

[PowerToThePeople]

122. If that is true

I am ok with it.

At least my fault won't kill people.

[loli phabay]

100. woo.

[PowerToThePeople]

115. of course you don't believe

you are addicted to guns.

[Lizzie Poppet]

137. I'd bet you any amount you'd never pick me out of a crowd as a gun owner.

You'd never know unless I chose to reveal the fact (like I do in these forums). You can't imagine how little I look like a "typical" gun owner...and you'd never get an inkling from conversation, either (again, unless I elected to reveal the fact).

Unless you're Charles Xavier, I guess...

[SQUEE]

156. That is just laughable...

As part of a former job, my entire job was to be inconspicous and yet fully armed with a bit more than your run of the mill Glock... And I guarantee you of all the many, many times I have been at Borders, Whole Foods, or Trader Joes, as well as churches, malls and multiple ribbon cutting ceromonies, I was only ever "made" by 2 people both of which were CCWs... Even with threat asssesment training and experience both carrying, and working with cover guys and girls, I have a hard time identifying a carrier, things like 4.11 gear and certain other manufacturers cab give you a hint, but even that is iffy. So yeah your entire premise is very laughable.

[otohara]

88. What About A Gang Member

do you want your daughter dating a gang member?
Chances are the gang member in Chicago has a gun right?

Why should I trust a white kid with a gun over a AA gang member with a gun?

If you own a gun and are proud of your gun, tell the world, we moms want to know who
around us has these dangerous weapons.

[loli phabay]

90. you do know there is a difference between being a gang member carrying and someone who

Hunts or target shoots etc etc.

[otohara]

118. I See A Lot Of STOP Signs

Riddled with bullets in rural areas . Like that type of target shooting?

[otohara]

144. 2010, 15,576 children and teenagers were injured by firearms

Adolescent Boys
The majority of children, ages 14 and under, killed unintentionally by a firearm, are boys. The American Academy of Pediatrics (AAP) considers homes with adolescent boys at a higher risk for unintentional firearm-related injury and death.

Accessible firearms in the home
Parents often underestimate their child's ability to gain access to the firearm in the house, or even the child's ability to pull the trigger. Statistics show that 75 percent to 80 percent of first and second graders who live in a home with a firearm know where the firearm is kept. In addition, children as young as 3 may be strong enough to pull the trigger of a firearm.

Accessible firearms at another home
Even if your home does not contain a firearm, your neighbor, friend, or relative may have an accessible firearm in the house.

Ammunition and firearms stored together
When a firearm is locked away with ammunition, or left loaded, it greatly increases the risk of unintentional firearm-related injury and death. It is estimated that between one-third and one-half of all firearm owners keep their firearms loaded and ready for use at least some of the time.http://medicalcenter.osu.edu/patientcare/healthcare_services/emergency_services/non_traumatic_emergencies/firearms_safety/Pages/index.aspx

Epidemic: Guns kill twice as many kids as cancer does

Nationally, guns still kill twice as many children and young people than cancer, five times as many than heart disease and 15 times more than infection, according to the New England Journal of Medicine.

"We see guns as much of a threat in their life as we used to see bacteria and viruses," said Dr. Judith S. Palfrey, a past president of the American Academy of Pediatrics and the co-author of the New England journal report. "If you look at what's actually killing children and disabling children, guns is one of the major things."http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/nation/2013/04/11/guns-child-deaths-more-than-cancer/2073259/

[napkinz]

150. thank you otohara for sharing that information

[MicaelS]

92. I am a single man with no kids.

So your question about children is irrelevant.

And whether I own guns is none of your business. Simply because of the prissy attitude you espouse.

[otohara]

117. Ohhh Prissy Am I?

Don't think much of a woman's opinion if she's anti gun do you?

[Lizzie Poppet]

135. The white vs AA part is irrelevant. It's the "gang member" thing that matters.

I'd trust the non-gang-member kid over the gang member kid any day of the week. Their race is irrelevant. If it was the white kid who was involved with gangs, then all else being equal, the AA kid would be my choice. Of course, I'd probably not try telling a teenager that...since they tend to be contrary for the sake of being contrary. I certainly was...

[nolabear]

61. My bias, but I think those who like this would be the ones I'd be likely to need an order against.

This isn't about break-ins, or thieves, or gangsters, this is about family and boyfriends and such. If you think guns are the solution to your family problems and if you hang out with people you're likely to need a restraining order against then you don't have the quality of life that you should have. I know I know, you can't predict everything, but you can predict some things and believe me, the situation depicted here is sub-par long before the restraining order gets violated.

[LibertyLover]

78. I'd be a lot happier if the little girl were learning to shoot something

more suited for her hand size. I worry about her ability to control that gun. Actually, I'd prefer if she were shooting a long bow, but then since that is what I shoot for fun, it could just be me. Guns, per se, don't scare me. I've shot at targets with a number of different firearms over the years and had lots of fun. My daughter will be learning about rifled muskets in a couple of years as that's what my husband has from being a Civil War re-enactor in the past. Those buggers are heavy. If I had the money, I'd love to get a reproduction Baker rifle like those carried by the 95th Rifles in the Napoleonic wars. Yeah, been reading too many Sharpe novels.

[loli phabay]

81. lol. i was thinking sharpe as well, love the old bess as well.

[LibertyLover]

113. I've shot replica Brown Bess muskets

but since I'm left eye dominant and left handed and you have to shoot them right handed or risk burning part of your face from the powder charge going off, I can't hit the broad side of a barn with one. Come to think of it, in period nobody could either.

[HockeyMom]

98. Unless the MOTHER of these daughters is a gunner herself,

I will that you that it is not going to happen. Been there, done that. My daughters are now adults who don't own guns, and do not shoot. Plus, they are married to people (man, woman) who don't either.

Passing it along. Works both ways, people.

[gopiscrap]

102. Keep this shit up and you wil have everyone holed up in their homes

then what will happen to the economy? But the most important part of this is that this is the kind of thinking that encourages folks to be mean spirited, self centered and aggressive.

[otohara]

147. Nailed It

I find myself going out less and less.
Buy what I need in the way of clothes on eBay.
Don't venture out at night
All because of my fear of guns.

[pintobean]

151. On which side?

But the most important part of this is that this is the kind of thinking that encourages folks to be mean spirited, self centered and aggressive.

[cui bono]

103. Outrageous. And also sexist.

Kids should not be exposed to this shit. It should not be considered a normal thing for a child to handle a gun.

And their use of sex to sell their idea is disgusting. Why not just make the argument in a straightforward manner? Why take a marketing approach? Is it necessary then?

This is my opinion on this and it will not change, so know that if you reply I will not reply in kind and it in no way means I've conceded the argument.

[napkinz]

104. We are not in disagreement

my subject line says this is WRONG

"Kids should not be exposed to this shit. It should not be considered a normal thing for a child to handle a gun."

WE AGREE!

[furious]

106. In the rural parts of the country, this is quite normal.

[cui bono]

107. Okay, I'll respond to you to clear up my post...

I meant that towards the people who were going to argue with me that kids should learn to handle guns. I didn't mean to make it sound like it was towards you, which it probably did since it was a reply to your OP. Sorry.

I totally agree with you!

[napkinz]

108. no problem cui

[HockeyMom]

110. As Mother with only daughters

Yes, I find this despicable. I have fought this type of thing personally in my own family, as I said on my other post.

[LittleBlue]

105. My dad taught me how to use a gun when I was a kid

Granted, that girl looks far too young to fire a gun. But once they are old enough, it's not wrong. I learned at about 10 or 11.

When I have kids, they will learn to operate one even if they decide later they don't want to own one. That includes the girls. Hell, especially the girls considering how crazy some men are.

[napkinz]

111. I'm just going to say ...

I don't despise or hate those who disagree with me.

I'm sure we agree on most of the other issues of the day.

But I am stunned. I'm so nonplussed, I don't even know if I should attempt to reply any further.

I'm shocked that it appears a majority of DU members believe it's fine to teach children how to use firearms. I'm dismayed.

I'm actually sad. Really. Very sad about this.

(But as I said in another reply, tomorrow is another day. I'll try to stay positive.)


edit: correct spelling

[furious]

112. We all have our own opinions here.

By the time my brothers and sisters were 6, we had all learned the safe use of firearms.
It's more of a rural thing than an urban thing.

[HockeyMom]

114. The gun owning people think EVERYONE

even if they don't want to own a gun, think that all people, especially women, should know how to operate a gun. They also think that schools should teach "gun safety", and school staff should be armed. I totally disagree, and have been fighting this mindset (OP) with my husband for 40 years. Guess who won?

Their kind of thinking is what feeds the gun culture, and gun violence, in this country, and passes it on to the next generation. Despicable that now they are targeting (sic) girls and women too. I cannot change the country all alone, but I can/did change my own family. I know my daughters will now pass it on. Hand that rocks the cradle, so to speak, especially with daughters.

[Throd]

120. I wholeheartedly support your right not to own a gun.

[HockeyMom]

132. Great, but I have to live in a Gun Household

and have for 40 years. Repect HIS 2nd Amendment righst, but where do MINE begin? His guns in the home endanger me. Took decades, but I think he finally realizes that.

[Lizzie Poppet]

134. "His guns in the home endanger me."

If that's the case, WHY ARE YOU STILL THERE?!?

[Bonx]

136. I believe it's fine to teach children how to use firearms.

Much better than them teaching themselves.

[hack89]

139. You desperately want gun owners to be fundamentally different from you

well guess what - we are not. There are plenty of gun owning Dems. You need to accept that fundamental fact.

[napkinz]

140. We're talking about teaching CHILDREN to use guns

The discussion centers on this one ASPECT.

Personally, I want to see MORE gun restrictions. I'm FOR expanding background checks (to overcome the gun show loophole) and restricting military-type assault weapons.

But what I just wrote above is not the SUBJECT of this thread.

So when you write, "There are plenty of gun owning Dems. You need to accept that fundamental fact." First of all, I don't need to accept anything someone tells me. I'm allowed to think for myself. Second, that's not the issue here. The subject of this thread is about teaching children to use firearms.

[hack89]

141. Millions of Americans learned to shoot as kids

That first .22 rifle at 8 or 10 was (and is) a right of passage for many Americans. I take it you you are a city person?

[napkinz]

142. so it's the urban versus rural argument

I don't think it matters WHERE one lives ...

because

A kid is a kid in any environment, and teaching him or her to use a firearm I don't think is wise.

You teach a kid how to paint, or to do math, or ride a bike ... if he/she makes a mistake, as kids OFTEN do, generally there's not much harm that can result. Making mistakes is part of the learning process.

But with a gun ... death is a "mistake" you can't fix.

[hack89]

143. Personal experience tells me otherwise

I grew up around guns as did my father and many generations before. I learned to shoot at 8 and I taught my son and daughter when they were 8.

You don't like guns. Got it.

[napkinz]

145. I wish I could find the thread ...

A member just posted a story about a child who had been taught how to use firearms and that child wound up killing his sibling.

I know, that's just one example. But I'm sure there are many others, as well as statistics on the subject.

And you're right, I don't like guns. And yes, I know people who own guns.

I just wish there were tighter restrictions (again, expanding background checks to close the gun-show loophole and banning the sale of military assault weapons and high-capacity magazines).

[hack89]

146. Ok nt

[Dawson Leery]

127. k/r

[doggie breath]

138. You are so right...

at that age she should be learning something truly useful, like putting a condom on a banana in school.
After all, the odds of her getting pregnant are higher than being shot.

[orpupilofnature57]

152. Teach them about people and relationships, and to steer clear

of ego-maniacal control freaks that show violent tendencies