A Tale of Two Mass Shootings

[MineralMan]

One in Washington DC, at the Navy Yard

One in Chicago, at the School Yard Playground

13 People Shot in Each.

One dominates the news on DU all week.

The other warrants just a couple of posts on DU.

One is hot breaking news.

The other barely breaks at all.

Why is there a difference?

Comments welcome.

[Puzzledtraveller]

1. crickets

Hmm, on edit I'll add.

Well, I think there is a narrative and Chicago does not fit it. As in there are no big problems in the inner cities, go back to bed, turn the page, stop watching Fox or something like that. You would think if the focuse was real on guns and we really needed to drum up support for major change and action these atrocities would be reported on in the national media. They aren't. So, I say it doesn't fit the narrative and it doesn't sell. It's sick. Same thing happens on kidnapping cases.

[MineralMan]

10. Thanks for bringing up kidnapping cases!

A similar thing seems to happen with those, too. I find it interesting. Not complimentary to DU, but interesting.

[Raine1967]

2. not enough dead people?

It's Chicago? It was a lot of black people?

I am wondering about this myself, MM.

I am terribly afraid that we are just becoming numb to this. It seems as though the frequency of violence in America is on par with the Middle East. The only difference is the motivation and the firepower.

If the NRA has their way, there will only be 1 difference.

[MineralMan]

6. Yah, that must be it.

Not enough dead people. Thanks!

[Blue_Tires]

3. one had fatalities, the other didn't

one had an identified dead gunman with a mental health past to investigate/analyze, the other didn't

and rightly or wrongly, one is widely generalized to be "nutbar slaughters innocents in a place where shootings never happen" versus "just another day of kids being in the wrong place at the wrong time in Chicago's never-ending gang/drug turf wars"

[MineralMan]

4. Ah...so mass shootings don't become news if nobody died?

I see.

Wait...no, I don't see. Thirteen people shot. Isn't that something that deserves notice? If not, please explain why not.

Were the people at the Navy Yard in the right place at the wrong time, somehow. What could that have to do with it?

[Blue_Tires]

7. I'm just telling you the media coverage perspective....

[MineralMan]

9. But DU isn't the media, at least as most people think of the media.

Apparently the two mass shootings aren't the same to DUers, either. I'm sure everyone heard something about the Chicago shooting, but there doesn't seem to be any curiosity about it. Who was the shooter? What was the shooter's motive? Where are the speculative threads? Do we not care for some reason?

[Blue_Tires]

13. So what's your analysis of the two incidents?

What do you think? I'd love to hear it....

Until the Chicago shooter is caught, or at least properly identified, no one will have a clue about the motive other than the fact that he evidently wasn't targeting a specific person

[MineralMan]

19. I forgot, I guess. Nobody commented on DU about the

Navy Yard shooting until the shooter was caught. OK, that makes sense, I guess...

[Blue_Tires]

29. Fair point...So what insights can you share after comparing and contrasting the two??

[MineralMan]

32. Ah, insights.

That's what I'm looking for from DUers. I keep hoping that more DUers will express those insights.

So far, very few have mentioned some of the real reasons. Kudos to those who have. Here are some insights I'm considering:

DC Navy Yard Shooting - Important people in offices. Must be some terrorist or anti-government action. We must get to the bottom of it.

Chicago Schoolyard Shooting - Who? Where? Never heard of the place. Don't know any of those people who hang out playing basketball. Shit happens, you know.

[morningfog]

14. Yes, simple answer is the number killed.

Deaths are of much greater significance and concern than injuries. This isn't shocking or a surprise.

[MineralMan]

16. Nah, I don't think so.

But, nice try.

[Kaleva]

5. Black on black crime doesn't get much attention

[MineralMan]

8. Ah, the race card...

See, I thought it depended on how "important" the people who were shot are? My logic doesn't seem to be running on all four cylinders today, I guess...

[Kaleva]

18. Here's a link to my thread in GD about it

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023700232

[MineralMan]

20. Thanks. I saw that one.

And the LBN thread, too. Yours got one reply. The LBN thread isn't breaking any records, either.

[JustAnotherGen]

11. I'm sitting on the sidelines

On this one MM.

[MineralMan]

12. So is just about everyone else, it seems.

Which is my point, really.

Where are the voices wondering who the shooter(s) was or were? A terrorist? A deranged ex-military person? Someone who should have been noticed before this happened?

Where's the discussion? Why are we not interested? Same number of innocent people shot as at the Navy Yard. People doing some normal activity, and they suddenly get shot. But, we're not interested, for some reason, in the Chicago shooting.

[JustAnotherGen]

24. Well I'm interested

And I have my opinion.

But it's going to go over like a lead balloon here .. . because sometimes well meaning liberals take observations about society at large a little too person.

BTW - you already stated my opinion up thread.

[MineralMan]

27. I hear you.

I thought I'd raise the question, since nobody else did. It seems to me to be a worthwhile question, and one that deserves an airing.

[sarisataka]

15. Lead story on CNN...

ABC it is on the feature scroll, #3 story on NBC, #2 on CBS... so it isn't lack of MSM coverage.

Most are reporting the gun was a high capacity rifle- though we know how accurate those reports can be. That's not it

Usual jibes about gun free Chicago vs neighboring states is not bring people out...

Don't know MM. One idea is people are emotionally exhausted but I can think of another reason or two


Hoping all of the victims recover

[MineralMan]

17. I know. It led the news this morning on CBS radio, which

I hear at 6 AM when I wake up.

Maybe nobody on DU is paying attention to the news today. That could be it, I suppose.

[MicaelS]

21. Truthfully, because it's viewed as just another Chicago shooting.

Yes, 13 people were shot, but no one died. And I just found this on NBCNews.com

Chicago had more than 500 homicides in 2012, according to FBI data, more than any other American city. Chicago's total exceeded that of New York City, which recorded 419, and Los Angeles, which saw 299. Both cities have populations greater than that of Chicago.

The shooting happened barely three weeks after a deadly Labor Day weekend for Chicago, in which 20 people were injured and eight people were killed.

The better question to ask is why does Chicago have so many shootings and murders? Chicago has 1/3 the population of NYC, so if NYC has Chicago's murder rate there would have been over 1,500 murders in NYC.

[MineralMan]

23. I wonder if the families of those who were shot

are as unconcerned as we are on DU. Maybe they just accept this as normal?

[MicaelS]

28. No, I bet they're not unconcerned..

But I do think they accept this as the "way thing are in Chicago".

To be brutal, I think many of these shootings are "turf", gang and drug turf related. Chicago seems to have a long history of problems with gangs going back over a century. Why? They haven't got a handle on gangs, yet. Why? Chicago seems to also have a long history of corruption in political office, an d law enforcement. Why?

I have never lived there, nor do I want to live there. So, I don't have insightful answers. You seem to have some good insights on issues, so what are your views on the questions I have asked?

[MineralMan]

30. I wanted to raise the question, and see what others thought

about it. So far, most people have edged around the most likely answer.

DU isn't interested in this mass shooting. Why that is is the subject of the thread. So far, only a few people have approached the question and given the obvious answer. And that's a problem, I think.

Gunman shoots 13 people! Same story in both cases. However, only one of those mass shootings got any traction on DU.

Bottom line: Nobody cares about people playing basketball in a playground. If they get shot, well...you know...


"That kind of thing happens there, you know. People should expect it. It's not the same as the Navy Yard shooting. It's urban Chicago, after all."

I don't like it. I don't like the difference in treatment for two mass shootings. Not one bit.

[ileus]

22. No one cared about the Navy shooting

Once it was revealed no AR was used....

If an AR had been used in Chicago it would generate more attention.

[Tommy_Carcetti]

40. Yes, of course. No one at all here has been discussing it since Tuesday.

Sheesh.

[Fumesucker]

25. The race and or social status of the victims and or the (presumed) shooters is my guess.

Some real social minefields to navigate talking about the Chicago shootings on DU.

We all know how difficult it is to write something that someone won't misinterpret in the worst possible way in the heat of the moment.

[MineralMan]

26. I was thinking the same thing, of course.

I just found the comparison very interesting today. I often find inconvenient things interesting.

[Fumesucker]

33. The DU dog that did not bark in the night

If you happen to be one of the Baker Street Irregulars.

[Lurks Often]

31. Because the reporters and politicians don't want Chicago and similar cities to be focused on

because it shows the failures of the local government. They have failed to create jobs, they have failed to control crime and they have failed to lead the people living in these crime ridden areas. When the people living in these crime ridden areas are so afraid of the criminals that they won't cooperate with the police then the system is broken and I really don't see a way to repair it that is legally and morally acceptable.


As an aside, I don't belief the race of the people involved is especially relevant. I think after 4+ generations of crappy jobs, crappy schools, no hope and no way to escape those conditions, you would get the same results with ANY racial or ethnic group.

[MineralMan]

35. I don't think so. The story was the top of the news,

and is still being covered in updates today. The media's covering it. DU is not.

Personally, I find that disturbing, so I started this thread to inquire into the reasons DU is interested in the Navy Yard shooting, but not in this one.

Doesn't that puzzle you?

[Lurks Often]

42. I don't watch TV news and only skim headlines on the internet.

My guess is that it isn't an especially political issue with a simple (or perceived simple) solution. Combine that with inner city crime being relatively commonplace and most here won't be sufficently outraged to post about it.

[JEFF9K]

34. I'm guessing that the Chicago incident ...

... will get lots of coverage in the conservative media and blogosphere. They love to blame everything that happens in Chicago on President Obama.

[MineralMan]

36. Ah. But we won't discuss it on DU.

We won't see all those speculative threads about the shooter. Nobody will wonder why it happened and what the shooter's motives were. No rants about AR-15s. Not much discussion at all, in fact.

The Navy Yard shooting, with the same number of people shot, though, got all of that, and it has persisted as a subject for days.

We have interesting characteristics, when you look at the stories that get traction on DU. Interesting.

[hack89]

37. The Chicago shooting is a potential minefield of social and racial issues

that make many here uncomfortable.

The Navy yard can be condensed down to "it is too easy to get guns" and "fuck the NRA"

[MineralMan]

38. By Jove, I think you've got it.

In reality, the Chicago mass shooting could be reduced to the same things. But it's not being reduced to those things.

DU doesn't seem to know what to do with a mass shooting in a playground in urban Chicago. I think that's a shame.

It's too easy to get guns. The shooter had one, so what kind was it and how did he/she get hold of it.

Fuck the NRA! If guns weren't so easy to get, this might not have happened.

Same arguments. Same issues. Different city. Different victims. One we discuss interminably. The other we ignore.

The two incidents are far more similar than they are different.

[Blue_Tires]

44. I wish you'd just made this the OP

would have been much more direct than all this roundabout silliness upthread...

[MineralMan]

46. But that was not what I wanted the thread to be.

It is what I wanted it to be. And, it's as interesting as I expected it to be.

[Blue_Tires]

48. I get it...

You wanted to prove a point and at the same time get your lolz from peeling back the layers of DU hypocrisy...Well played...

So do we actually discuss the racial/social "minefield" apparently no one wants to touch in this thread, or will you make a new one?

[Blue_Tires]

43. Why would racial/social issues on a supposed liberal forum make anyone uncomfortable?

I've found that most DUers have no problems saying what's on their mind regarding race, even the stuff I point out as borderline or patently offensive...

[MineralMan]

45. What goes unsaid is also interesting.

Hence my post.

[SecularMotion]

39. Crazed gunman violence is more of a threat to public safety than gang violence.

The majority of the public do not feel threatened by gang violence since it occurs in specific areas or neighborhoods. It is usually internal to the gang culture and most people outside the culture or area are not directly affected.

The public does feel threatened by crazed gunman violence which is more random and occurs in normally peaceful areas. It creates more fear when people don't have answers on how to avoid becoming a victim of random violence.

[Kaleva]

41. Now that's an interesting way of looking at it.

As long as the problem is confined to certain areas, it doesn't garner much discussion but a mass shooting at a supposedly secure military installation, elementary school or a peaceful movie theater draws a great deal of attention for the reason you stated.

[MicaelS]

51. Excellent POV. n/t

[krispos42]

47. The Navy Yard shooting was reported as being done with an AR-15

That brought out the usual people that are for assault-weapon bans and drove a lot of discussion.

Then it was discovered that the corporate media had done their usual stellar job of reporting, and that there was no AR-15 after all, just a gun that was never considered an "assault weapon"... a pump-action shotgun.

It was also a government naval installation, so there were possibilities of domestic or international terrorism.


The Chicago shooting resulted in no deaths (yet; obviously there were severe injuries), while the Navy Yard shooting had 12 dead plus the shooter.

Of course, now the CPD is reporting an "assault-style" weapon was used in the attack, so this may change the environment.

http://apnews.excite.com/article/20130920/DA8U7LT83.html

[gopiscrap]

49. partly because the death toll was higher in DC

also the media worships the military and also deems DC more important that a bunch of people in a common neighborhood. Not right, but that's the way it is.

[IdaBriggs]

50. More dead people in the first.

Plus in Washington.

Plus - "mass shooting = YAWN." They are becoming a dime a dozen.

Next week's mass shooting should generate some excited posts.

Or maybe not, if someone finds something else for DU to get outraged over.

Look! Obama! And Outrage-du-Jour! He's just like (fill-in-the-blank) and we've been tricked!

Rinse. Lather. Repeat.

ON EDIT: I posted about it. It sank like a stone.

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023700828

[Warpy]

52. BIG difference

People died at the Navy Yard. The guy was trained and well armed.

Nobody died in Chicago, it was shithead gangstas who never learned how to aim.