Aha – That’s Why They Were So Desperate to Get Us Into Syria

[kpete]

SUN SEP 22, 2013 AT 07:06 AM PDT
Aha – That’s Why They Were So Desperate to Get Us Into Syria
by Minerva


Well, maybe it was because Western intelligence had determined that Iran was planning diplomatic overtures around their reputed nuclear weapons program and ending sanctions.

Neocons, military enthusiasts, asshole media lightweights, Israel and Saudi Arabia, et al desperately want the US to attack Iran. You know, start with bombs, see what flows from there.

Iranian diplomatic overtures, possibly worth engaging and likely to be popular with the rest of the world, are a disaster if you’re trying to suck the US into a proxy war.

If the laughably-weak-case coalition had conned the US into bombing Syria, it would likely have precluded Iran being able to undertake these overtures.
http://www.reuters.com/article/2013/09/19/us-iran-usa-obama-idUSBRE98I0VZ20130919

http://www.dailykos.com/story/2013/09/22/1240528/-Aha-That-s-Why-They-Were-So-Desperate-to-Get-Us-Into-Syria



*******************


Lawrence Wilkerson has a similar take on the war mongers. He calls them traitors.

And then you come to this country and you find Netanyahu's allies in people like Senator John McCain, Senator Lindsey Graham from my home state, and others who are bordering on being traitors, in my view, because they won't let this president have room to achieve a diplomatic solution. They're all angry now that he didn't bomb Syria, that he in fact, in conjunction with Putin, came up with a deal that may be extremely challenging to implement. But nonetheless it's kept the bombs from dropping, which is a good thing. And so they're moving on to Iran, with Graham even saying he's going to move for legislation to authorize the use of military force against Iran in the next four to five months. So these people are bordering on being traitors. And those who would say, well, they're just good Republicans trying to keep up the pressure on Iran so that Iran will negotiate and negotiate in good faith, that's preposterous. We're to the point now where everybody needs to put down his 0.45 caliber pistol and walk [incompr.] table and begin to negotiate in good faith. And people like Lindsey Graham and John McCain need to sit down, recede into the background, if you will, and shut their mouths.

http://therealnews.com/t2/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=31&Itemid=74&jumival=10756

[backscatter712]

1. Bill Maher's right - the U.S. has become the George Zimmermann of international affairs.

We're waving our guns around, pretending to be cops, and acting completely unhinged. It's only a matter of time before we Stand Our Ground on some new target...

[libodem]

4. Thst is a sad FN

Analogy. You take that back! (kidding it is perfect)

[Berlum]

16. Bingo

Still dancing to the tune of the soul-ugly neoCON war profiteering puppetwankers.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

49. The Zimmermann analogy is off because Zimmerman didn't get campaign contributions, jobs for

relatives and other supporters, and promises for future wealth from war profiteers.

Zimmerman was only allowed to kill one person and get away with it. Bush, Cheney, and others have been able to kill hundreds of thousands (including children and those attending wedding parties) and get away with much, much more.

[yurbud]

66. over a million by some estimates.

[AnotherMcIntosh]

77. Not a penny in CAMPAIGN contributions. Campaign contributions are given to office seekers who ARE

SUPPOSED TO REPRESENT US.

[yurbud]

68. When it come to Bush/Cheney and warmongers in general, any analogy should have the disclaimer:

"no offense to (whoever or whatever you are comparing them to)."

For example: "Bush is a nitwit--no offense to nits."

[BlueMTexpat]

95. Or wits. :)

[dixiegrrrrl]

76. But he DID get contributions..

Remember the Zimmerman Defense fund?
Which gave rise later to all sorts of questions of he spent some of the money.

[libdem4life]

2. They are lost and as outdated as their fear-clutched "binkies" are getting taken away.

binkie: baby pacifier or sometimes a blanket to suck on ... usually discarded around 3 or 4 years of age, at the latest.

[leveymg]

3. Did anyone else watch the Charlie Rose int'w w/Ehud Barak? Wants Obama to bomb Iran without

seeking any Congressional or UN authorization, and has been talking to some in Congress and the Admin. to make sure the "same mistake" that delayed the bombing of Syria isn't repeated.

The former Israeli PM talked about his meetings in DC about goading the US into a "sledgehammer attack" on Iran's nuclear installations with some secret new weapons he alluded to toward the end of the Rose Interview. Also, earlier in the talk he seems to say that Israel was involved in the western interventions in Libya and Syria.

Barak discusses his strategy for an unannounced, preemptive attack by the US on Iran about 30 minutes into the interview, here: http://www.bloomberg.com/video/israeli-prime-minister-barak-charlie-rose-09-20-blc81QjLSWGC3eZiu1Kyiw.html

[Jefferson23]

7. Yes , and the very ideas are insane and if implemented, would be criminal, literally. n/t

[bvar22]

36. That never stopped them in the past.

They can do whatever they want,
and our Leadership and DoJ will Look the other Way, or "Look Forward", or produce a note from their lawyer stating that its ALL legal now....because ...TERROR...9-11...more TERROR.

[Jefferson23]

53. Geeze, you just reminded me of David Addington...ugh. n/t

[2banon]

86. missed it. but reading your summation, seems soooo like him to have these war mongers on the air.

I cannot stomach Rose, unfortunately he has been given even wider exposure to carry water for the Neo-Cons/Neo-Libs ... anyone willing to bomb the M.E. is given wide birth and lots of air time just for that purpose.

[Scootaloo]

90. Why do we listen to anything Israel says, again?

I mean I get that we're friends...

but...

Doesn't everyone have that friend, that one guy, who is nothing BUT bad ideas? You love the guy, but whenever he comes up with a new scheme you beg he not ever include you - or mention your name during the inevitable arrest?

Israel is our Kosmo Kramer.

[KoKo]

5. Recommend!

[malaise]

6. They profit from war

War must go on for these treasonous goons.

[riderinthestorm]

8. Big K&R nt

[summerschild]

9. Same crowd that brought us Iraq and Afghanistan. Truth be known, probably 9/11 as well.

PNAC never quit and they never will.

I am so sick of McCain/Graham, Kristol and group. Don't ever turn your back on them because they will never quit trying.

I trust Netanyahu and the Israelis as far as I can throw them.

[Duval]

87. I agree one thousand

times with your post, summerschild.

[Octafish]

10. Democracy is the enemy of the Petrodollar Sheikhdoms...

...and a lot of other Kingdoms, too.

[Cryptoad]

11. The GOP is trying to destroy this country

repeal every bit of progress us Liberal have fought and died for over teh last 50 years

And the Obama Haters act like they are blind to it!

[RC]

12. Not true.

We have a problem with Obama aiding and a bedding the GOP, by appointing Republicans to head agencies. Leaving high level bu$h agencies appointees in place. Caving to the Republicans. Not pushing the Public Option, when he said he would. His drone policies in countries we are not at war with and his drone kill list, that includes Americans. Putting Social Security on the table several times and the chained CPI. Wanting to bomb Syria, until Putin pulled his bacon out of the fire with a diplomatic solution and possibly stopped the start of WWIII. And I hear Obama still wants to bomb Syria.

Obama has done nothing to prosecute Wall Street crime. He has embraced the Patriot Act, domestic spying and indefinite detention. He has extended the Bush tax cuts for the super wealthy, even when they were set to automatically expire after 10 years.
Obama admires Reagan as a person to aspire to. Obama is a corporatist, which is no in anyway Liberal.
And the list is way longer. Where is that Hope and Change now?

[Cryptoad]

14. Enjoy your serfdom! nt

[RC]

15. What serfdom?

Because I don't need the daily talking points to inform me what my opinions are?

[cherokeeprogressive]

18. It seems to be his new mantra. Not sure why he keeps repeating it, or if he knows why either.

Not even sure he knows what it means.

Disagree with anything he says though, or criticize President Obama for anything at all, and there it is like clockwork.

Reminds me of a trained seal.

[Phlem]

22. Don't ya know Obama's PURE!

He can do no wrong!





-p

[Fuddnik]

62. It's the Third Way, New Dem theme song.

"Serfin' USA".

[RC]

64. Oh, I get it.

We can serf as long as we are still spiraling the drain. But once we are in the drain, we are gone and lost. Makes sense now.

[BlueStreak]

94. Life is pretty darned exciting right before you enter a black hole.

[Phlem]

24. Serfdom for all is coming after Obama signs the TPP

genius.

-p

[Cartoonist]

20. I'll bet you're sorry

that Romney lost. That would have shown Obama! Just like you taught Gore.

The GOP is the enemy, and so are people like you who lose sight of that.

I realize that these comments are personal and probably not approved by DU, but I am really sick of people stabbing Obama in the back. What is it you HOPE to accomplish? The complete takeover by the right? What do you want to CHANGE? The end of DADT or DOMA, The "giveaway" that is the ACA? The winding down of war? The list goes on. Too bad you can't say anything positive about our President.

You're not the only one. There are many here who quickly jump into a thread to say nothing more than Obama is a repug in reality. Your response has nothing to do with the original post, which shows Obama as the opposite of McCain and Graham. Too bad you will never see that.

[Phlem]

23. OMG

Are you fucking kidding with this shit!

-p

[Cartoonist]

25. Excuse me

You have something positive to say? I'd like to hear it.

[Phlem]

28. You mean this kind of positive?

"I'll bet you're sorry that Romney lost. That would have shown Obama! Just like you taught Gore."

Have you got something sane to say?

I'd like to hear it.



-p

[Cartoonist]

32. Was I talking to you?

You chimed in with a comment that meant nothing. I was responding to someone who went whole negative against Obama. I included some thumbs up for the positives Obama has done, but I guess you are blind to them.

See:
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023707888

[Phlem]

33. Ah a link to Conservative Democrat, makes perfect sense.

Listen Einstein, since your new here, when your participating in a public thread, your talking to everyone.

You admonished people critical of Obama and you showed you support for Obama, yes, same formula, it's everywhere and your link to Conservative Democrat proves my point.

Sorry your blind period when you follow by faith instead of asking questions.

How Obama signing the TTP, where's the good in that for Americans.



I believe in a left leaning Democratic party, not one being pulled to the RIGHT!



So you know where you can shove your blue link.

-p

[Cartoonist]

40. You make the same mistake

"Listen Einstein, since your new here"

I'll ignore the misspelling, since you're new to the English language, but like many before you, you think a low post count means new membership. Here's the facts: Member since: Sun Jul 19, 2009, 11:14 AM. Look it up. You don't always have to reveal your ignorance. At least try to cut it down. And if you don't think Obama has been pulling to the left of what Bush and Nader left us, then all the blue links can't help, no matter where I shove them up you.

[Phlem]

42. OOOO good one!

You stall haven't answered my question I guess you may be new to logic too.

How is the TPP good for Americans?



-p

[Cartoonist]

47. I'm not stalling

TPP doesn't look good, neither did NAFTA. I was severely disappointed with Clinton for that, but I didn't bring out my knife and stab him in the back for it. I have relatives who don't always do the right thing, but I still love them and wouldn't replace any of them for John McCain.

It's one thing to criticize the president. It's another to have nothing good to say about the genuinely good things he has done and liken him to the worst of the GOP. The OP was about Syria. You still haven't said anything addressing that. But that's not your agenda, is it? You just want to criticize Obama or attack his defenders. Sadly, there are too many on DU who are just like you. At least three in this thread alone.

[Phlem]

56. Bombing people because they're getting gassed by their leader is wrong. Period.

Attacking a country not directly attacking us is wrong, period.

WAR is wrong period!

I think the president stumbled, flipped, and fell then got right back up and said "I meant to do that" when it comes to Syria.

I do commend the president on trying to fix health insurance. It will be a benefit to many including me. I'm glad Gays and Lesbians are treated as equals.

I'm not glad that the jobs scenario is getting worse.

I'm not glad he has a fucking kill list.

I'm not glad we have drones killing innocents in other countries, surgical strike my ass.

I was not impressed with the whole "bipartisanship" play, that was utter bullshit, and didn't we have 8 prior years of non negotiation from Republicans anyway or did that just disappear.

I'm not glad that anyone from the prior administration was not under investigation much less arrested for sending us to war based on lies and on the tax payers dollar.

I'm pissed the bankers got away with it and are still doing it.

I'm pissed that Obama uses the excuse of obstructionist republicans with many more on this board to provide even more excuses for the president, yet we have full bipartisanship when it comes to war or free trade agreements.

The NSA scandal, geez, just geez.

And I'm really pissed that I used to make $60,000 a year by dotting my I's and crossing my T's and putting myself through school for it only to have it shipped overseas, leaving me struggling since the Bush era with no end in sight.

ETC.....

enough?

PS.. I'm really pissed about the growing contrast between the wealthy and the poor.

-p

[Phlem]

45. Oh and since this is a pissing contest

Phlem:

member since: Thu May 12, 2005, 02:03 PM

Let's see you picked on my spelling and this *dribble*, oh let me correct my spelling, I meant drivil, so, so sorry about that, I hope that now I've corrected it we can commence with helping the hungry and homeless.

" And if you don't think Obama has been pulling to the left of what Bush and Nader left us, then all the blue links can't help, no matter where I shove them up you."

Can you answer my question about the TPP now?

-p

[bvar22]

37. "Cartoonist" is the perfect Screen Name for someone...

..who peddles FANTASY and FICTION on DU.

[Cartoonist]

41. F&F

Fantasy: The belief that someone like Nader or Joe Hill can become president.
Fiction: Thomas Nast had no impact on politics.

[bvar22]

44. No. I was citing fantasies like this:

"I'll bet you're sorry that Romney lost. That would have shown Obama! Just like you taught Gore."...Cartoonist

THAT kind of unsupported, fabricated, fantasy BS has no basis in the Real World, only in the fevered imaginations of DUs cartoonists who create these Strawman fantasies because it makes them feel good to demonize their imaginary enemies.
Its so much easier than constructing logical, cohesive arguments that deal with Policy & Direction of the Democratic Party.


You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS,[/font]
not by their fantasies or excuses.

[Cartoonist]

50. Sarcasm, look it up.

One theme that was prevalent during Nader's run was the idea that the Democratic party needed to be taught a lesson. Don't you remember that? There are still Naderites here who think they did no harm. Perhaps RC isn't one of them, but he/she sure sounds like one.

Sorry, but I missed your logical, cohesive argument. Wanna run it by me again?

[bvar22]

55. Oh, I see what your problem is.

You believe that a wimpy, mild mannered, Consumer Activist was a SUPERMAN who single handedly knocked the wheels off the entire Democratic Party.
SEE! Thats what I'm talking about!
That kind of stuff only happens in CARTOONS.

Nader stepped into a Vacuum created by the 3rd Way, DLC, conservative, Wellfare Reforming, Anti-LABOR , deregulating, Free Trading Clinton Administration.

Vacuums are filled, in Physics and Politics.
That isn't a cartoon.
That is reality.

While Blaming the Voters for a failure of Leadership may make you feel good,
it never solves the problem.
The Voters aren't going to change,
but if Leadership has the right stuff to address their own failures,
then the problem CAN be corrected.

[Cartoonist]

79. My problem?

Now look who's in the fantasy kitchen cooking up a bowl of drivel.
"You believe that a wimpy, mild mannered, Consumer Activist was a SUPERMAN who single handedly knocked the wheels off the entire Democratic Party."

Show me where I said anything even remotely like that. My complaint was that some DUers are here just to knock Obama. These are the same DUers who say they will not vote for the war-voting Clinton, just like those who voted for Nader due to fantasy dreams of a progressive president. Go ahead, stick to your principles, fill that vacuum, then watch as Ann Romney is sworn in as Commander-in-Chief.

Here's the reality: there are only two parties that will hold the office of the Presidency. Until that reality changes, and I'm all for that, anything else is just a fantasy.

[RC]

58. Can't refute anything in my post so you resort to attacking the messenger?

I voted enthusiastically for Obama and his Hope and Change the first time. I'm still waiting for it.
No one with any kind of grip on reality would have voted for Romney. Not only is the GOP the enemy, as you state, but so are the DLC, DINO's and other assorted people that claim to have that (D) by their name, but are in reality, also Right of Center. Those same DLC and DINO's enable the GOP by not properly standing up to them in the race to the bottom.

The ACA was birth in the Right wing think-tank, The Heritage Foundation^*, written in large part by the health insurance companies themselves. It was fine tuned in Massachusetts by George Romney. Then brought to us by the Obama administration. Those that tried to get attention for Single Payer, at the hearings, were arrested and jailed. Obama would not or could not even use his bully pulpit for the Public Option. He caved on that option.

I am for equality for all, regardless of gender, sexual orientation, race, skin color, or nationality, including the Right to marriage and all the legal ramifications therein.

We got kicked out of Iraq. Obama then expanded the war in Afghanistan and tried to start WWIII by wanting to bomb Syria, before Putin pulled our bacon from the fire by proposing a diplomatic solution. Those are the facts.

No one here is saying Obama is a repug. What we are saying is Obama is no Liberal. He is a Right of Center corporatist. Things make sense by looking at Obama in that light. How else can Reagan be someone Obama looks up to for inspiration?

[font size="5"]^*The Heritage Foundation disowns its baby[/font size]

he Heritage Foundation is desperate for Congress to strangle Obamacare in the crib. Prevent the program’s major provisions from taking effect on Oct.1, the conservative Washington research foundation advises, by threatening to shut down the government. Heritage President Jim DeMint just launched a nine-city “Defund Obamacare” tour, sponsored by Heritage’s advocacy arm, Heritage Action. It’s all very scholarly.

Obamacare must be stopped, according to Heritage, because it’s expensive, imposes new taxes, and tramples on individual liberty.

But the punchline is that Obamacare is largely Heritage’s own invention.

It may not be news that a conservative Washington think tank is going to great lengths to defeat a Democratic policy proposal. But this may be the first instance where the policy being opposed was incubated at the very same think tank. Look out, donors: the policies you pay Heritage to develop today may be policies you pay Heritage to defeat tomorrow. It’s like Victor Frankenstein stumbling over the frozen tundra to defeat the creation he was so proud of but now despises.

http://tv.msnbc.com/2013/08/21/obamacare-the-heritage-foundation-disowns-its-baby/

[Cartoonist]

83. Valid points, still . . .

"We got kicked out of Iraq. Obama then expanded the war in Afghanistan and tried to start WWIII by wanting to bomb Syria, before Putin pulled our bacon from the fire by proposing a diplomatic solution. Those are the facts."
-
Smells like opinions to me. You can have them.

The things you talk about in your posts are valid topics for discussion. What I object to is that you didn't post them as topics of discussion. Instead you horned in on a valid discussion of Syria to air your gripes about non-related subjects. And you did so in a very insulting way to our president. So yeah, I took a shot at you. I will defend this President.

"We have a problem with Obama aiding and a bedding the GOP" (perhaps you mean abetting)

Yeah, there's no difference in the two parties. Where have I heard that before?

[RC]

84. But there is a difference between parties.

The Democratic party is not as far Right as the Republican party. But both parties are far to the Right of where the Republicans were 40 years ago.

Everything we do or try to do in the Middle East is tied together.

The Iraq war ends with a sovereign Iraq kicking US out


So the Iraq war ends. What began as a mad dash to Baghdad without much worry about what came next, complete with an infamous May 1, 2003, "Mission Accomplished" moment ("In the battle of Iraq, the US and our allies have prevailed" President Bush said from the deck of the USS Abraham Lincoln then) quickly cratered into an insurgency and civil war that claimed at least 100,000 Iraqi lives and 4,500 American ones.

Now it's over, and it's time for a thousand retrospectives to bloom. US politicians and the pundits that serve them have been trying to frame the Iraq war in terms of whether Bush won Iraq, or Obama lost it, or vice versa. They're almost all of them wrong. The claim that President Obama met a campaign promise today is technically true – but only because Iraqi Prime Minister Nouri al-Maliki forced him to. Obama was seeking to keep troops in Iraq, perhaps as many as 15,000 of them, beyond the Dec. 31 withdrawal date.

But the Iraqi government, led by Shiite Islamists with ties to Iran and well aware that an extension of the US occupation would be political poison for them (already dealing with public anger at rampant corruption and poor service delivery), had none of it. Mr. Maliki told Obama he could have his troops in the country if they were subject to Iraqi law, something he and everyone else knew was a deal-breaker.

http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Backchannels/2011/1215/The-Iraq-war-ends-with-a-sovereign-Iraq-kicking-US-out

And here:
http://www.dailykos.com/story/2011/10/23/1029293/-Getting-kicked-out-of-Iraq-credit-where-it-is-really-due

I'll defend Obama too, when he does something worth defending, without having to spin it first.

[deutsey]

91. +1

[Skittles]

71. this IS satire, right?

it HAS to be

[dotymed]

92. I hope to see the end of corporatism.

The re-implementation of Glass-Steagall, our wealth distributed to the workers and war criminals prosecuted.
a good start.
END FASCISM!

[independentpiney]

59. Obama's been a-bedding the GOP?

I've thought he seemed a little too cozy with them sometimes, but I didn't think he was sleeping with them.

[treestar]

69. aiding and a bedding?

was that intentional?

[RC]

72. It sounds like what I was looking for.

What did I want?

[treestar]

73. abetting

I thought you might be making a pun about politicians being "in bed" with each other.

[RC]

74. Yeah, that's it, a pun.

That's what I was trying to do make a pun. Yeah, that's my excuse and I stand beside it.

[uppityperson]

29. Thank you MIRT!!!!!

[Enthusiast]

13. K&R!

In other words, Lindsey Graham and John McCain just need to STFU!

I love it.

[sabrina 1]

17. They never quit. But as Brzezinsky recently pointed out, it is becoming

more and more difficult for the War Mongers in the US and elsewhere to get their wars going, due mainly to the expansion of the Media, which they once controlled, including the Internet.

Which is why they are so desperately going after Whistle Blowers and Independent Media, and now attempting to 'define Journalism' under the transparent 'guise' of 'protecting journalists'.

[thesquanderer]

19. Sure, what good is a military-industrial complex without an enemy?

We can't go about having world peace, now. Not much profit in that.

[GoneFishin]

21. This parallels the Republican strategy on the ACA.

If they are unable to fool the public into following them over the cliff, in time the public will learn what liars and manipulators they are. Thus, as that time grows nearer they become more and more desperate to affect a course change.

[ProSense]

26. Who knew

By the way, with the recent Syria shenanigans, Obama did not “botch” the politics as those in “the coalition” keep sneering. In fact, the whole thing probably played out about as Obama expected. He knows its stupid to go bombing Syria with little rhyme or reason. He’s just reluctant too much of a political genius to stand up openly to the Israel lobby (in particular).

...11-dimensional chess was popular among so many?



Iranian President Calls For 'Constructive Engagement' With U.S. In Op-Ed
http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023700945

[Festivito]

30. Worse, it is disaster colonialism.

If we have a big middle eastern war some countries will go away. Saudi Arabia and Israel will gain territory. Russia and United States will divide the spoils of war.

It's using disaster for profit. It's not a disaster capitalism per se. It's disaster colonialism.

[Democracyinkind]

31. I have constantly repeated this point over the last months. Thanks for this thread!

[Uncle Joe]

34. Kicked and recommended.

Thanks for the thread, kpete.

[Donald Ian Rankin]

35. Now there's a spectacularly stupid conspiracy theory.

Just because a theory reflects badly on people you disapprove of, doesn't mean that it's not utterly absurd.

[bvar22]

38. And just because you label this speculation as "utterly absurd"...

..doesn't make it so.

[Uncle Joe]

39. Which part do you disagree with

1. That Israel and its' blank check supporters want to bomb Iran?

2. That Iran is an ally or at least strong supporter of Assad?

3. That bombing Syria would weaken moderation in Iran?

[polynomial]

43. In God We Trust

President Obama can unlike a previous president, George W. Bush, stand aside along the river of Pease.

Whereas Bush stood on the ashes of a well thought out mound to gamble in lies of secret shadow governance. Whereas this GOP George leading the captains in media and the generals of the military industrial complex to the hell America must endure to remove every citizen of the shame that all America was tricked by gross and complex treasonous secret profiteering in a war that should never have been started.

Again I have to try to express myself in the most powerful way without being too corrosive in language yet be an intellectual bull horn on the mound, this Du thread as I would pray that Gabriel would trumpet. Its wonderful the our president Obama declined to bomb Syria. Also very impressive the Russian masters such as Putin to consider Pease instead of war.

Now, Iranian leadership call to friendlier relations. America lets respond all of us find out who these people are. Dig into the culture of the Shia and the Sunni. Especially use technology to advance culture not war.

Open up the ancient studies of the Zijes tablets. How do they correlate to Christianity and Judaism. Open up conversation about the basic astronomical and astrological concepts of the Zij. One of the most sacred tablets besides Moses.

Why not for what does the Christian know in those secrets of the Vatican? Perhaps the Pope would feel spirit to respond to kind. Yes a gesture of Pease America lets heard these ancient words kept secret for centuries. It is past time to stop the wars and listen to a little while before our creator decides to reset all of us. Or, before I die to hear the truths in the secrets of Christianity and Islam. What you say America…

[Maedhros]

54. Yes, it IS wonderful that Obama did not bomb Syria.

Now if we can just get him to stop bombing EVERYWHERE ELSE...

[2banon]

85. "In God We Trust" ?

No God is responsible for the level of mass corruption leading to disaster of much of humanity. Although some would argue, and I would agree, that invoking God into political problems does nothing to further the goal of PEACE, but rather fuels the flame of war and the threats of war, for rather obvious reasons, I should think.

[Phlem]

46. K&R!

keep it up kpete!

great stuff.

-p

[azurnoir]

48. well that was part of it IMO however it was also supposed to be a show of strength

to Russia, China, Iran by using the weak link (Syria) as an example

[davidn3600]

51. A bully beating up on a weak kid is supposed to scare Russia?

[Jefferson23]

52. Yes, I'm afraid so.

Good to see ya azurnoir

[azurnoir]

93. ;somehow I don't it's quite over yet

we'll see what happens

good to see you too though

[Phlem]

57. Hey Kpete

That's it! I'm never voting Democrat anymore, Never. This is the last straw. You know what, I'm going to make them pay, that's it! I'm voting Republican ticket all the way! That's it! That'll teach em! When are they going to learn the left means business!



Some days it's just to much.

Off to family movie night with me, Take Care and great post!

-p

[truedelphi]

60. Some of us here at DU were quite outspoken abt the Iran conncetion.

Why? We remember the C Span recorded testimony of Sessions interviewing Panetta way way back in March 2012, when Panetta let Sessions know that the Obama Administration doesn't need any stinkin' Congressional approval of the plans to get involved in Syria.

Panetta said repeatedly that the only thing the Administration and his office were concerned about were getting approval form other nations.

That made such a Shit Stir on the RW blogospehre that this time the Administration did say it would ask Congress - which is after all what is required of the Executive Branch when it wants the nation's Treasury and young people to be spent in a war..

And it is not only that the new Iranian leader was going to be doing diplomatic outreach - it was also that Obama's polling numbers were heading south due to Benghazi, the IRS scandal, and the revelations of the massive amounts of energy and the massive noose around our necks from the Obama Surveillance State. (Not to suggest that a McCain or Romney wouldn't be having this happen as well.) So a wag the dog "humanitarian crisis in Syria" plan was brought forth.

[DeSwiss]

61. They are TRAITORS.

That's why they should be locked up.

But they're not locked up.

- Because we're not allowed to look back.

K&R

[Fuddnik]

63. Bomb bomb bomb, bomb bomb Iran.

Is there anyone McCrazy doesn't want to bomb?

[jazzimov]

65. WTF? Anyone who mentions a proxy war with Iran

simply hasn't been paying attention.

Perhaps if Ahma-whatsisname was still in office, but all indications are that the sanctions are working. Iran has new Leadership who is making overtures. Of course, the Supreme Leader is still the Supreme Leader, but obviously either he's changed his mind or he's listening to cooler heads. In any case, it would be just plain stupid to attack Iran - even in a proxy war - until we know this new President a little better.

Conspiracy theories about our government meaning more than what they say in this instance is just that - a Conspiracy Theory.

I prefer facts.

[Uncle Joe]

70. The Supreme Leader in Iran came out with a Fatwa (religious) decree against Iran developing

nuclear weapons seven or eight years ago.

So he has been onboard for some time.

[gopiscrap]

67. good point

[WillyT]

75. HUGE K & R !!! - Thank You !!!

[yellowwoodII]

78. makes a lot of sense

sorry this thread got off-track

[jsr]

80. Yep.

[cantbeserious]

81. Kick And Recommend

eom

[Initech]

82. They won't be satisfied until the whole damn Middle East is under flames.

[Duval]

88. Great post kpete, as always! n/t

[SaveAmerica]

89. I feel that President Obama should be considered the best US President ever

because he not only has had to come up with solutions to the huge problems that have harmed this country (clean up on aisle W) and put out fires in different places in the world, he has had had to do so while keeping his eye on the fools who are out to sabotage all of that progress.

Whether there is a connection to any of the George HW Bush crowd to any of the 'problems' we're watching happen on a regular basis in the Middle East or not, we can surely connect it to the Republican Party in general (ringleader: Graham). My hat is off to Obama, he has his eyes on the scene we all have witness to and all the mess below that is out of our sight. Either one alone is enough to turn a young man gray.

(I personally think this scene mentioned in the OP is plausible, I for one felt that something did not smell right throughout the Syria mess)

[BlueMTexpat]

96. Thinking back, although the phrase "red line"

in reference to Syria was apparently first used by Prez Obama in 2012, it did not become such a feverishly hysterical catchword until AFTER the election of President Rouhani in June 2013 and even before the tragic incident that nearly stampeded the US into war earlier this month.

I remember hearing the phrase repeated ad nauseam from July on - even before the sarin gas incident - which is one reason (among the many) why I was absolutely opposed to US military intervention in Syria. In retrospect, it seemed to me that the usual suspects (PNAC members, McCain, Netanyahu, etc.) were using "red line" in crying "wolf" (about both Syria and Iran) to whet bloodthirsty appetites and set the stage for a horrific event that would provoke the same unquestioning reactions as 9-11 did, e.g., knee-jerk military intervention(s) that would - in this case - ultimately lead to conflict with Iran. And potentially others ....

Although I was not happy with the hyperbolic rhetoric used by Prez O & SoS Kerry in late August/early September, I thank heavens that both are level-headed enough that despite occasional hyperbole, neither really believes in "knee-jerk" reactions, especially to sensitive foreign policy matters, and both were willing to listen to and heed those "outside the Beltway," including world leaders from other countries.

For those who are interested, here's an interesting article about the history of the phrase "red line," written by Ben Zimmer, a lexicographer. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424127887323993804578612210634238812.html

Mr. Zimmer also explores other "well-worn foreign policy phrases" in this article: http://www.visualthesaurus.com/cm/wordroutes/of-pinpricks-and-slam-dunks-the-rhetoric-of-the-syrian-conflict/

Enjoy.

[woo me with science]

97. K&R

[woo me with science]

98. kick