President Obama Should Take the Deal

[erpowers]

I realize I will probably get flamed, but I think President Obama should take this deal. The latest bill calls for a one year delay in the start of the Accordable Care Act in order to fund the government. The White House has acknowledged there are some problems with the program. That year could be used to fix the program and to explain to people how it will work.

Finally, I think Republicans can gain points with this if the government does shut down. They can claim all they wanted was for the program to be delayed for a year in order to begin to fix the problems within the program. At this point if President Obama and the Democrats do not take the they could be painted as the unreasonable party for being unwilling to delay the Affordable Care Act (which has some problems) in order to fund the government. If President Obama and the Democrats take the deal I think they will come away from this looking reasonable.

[Gothmog]

1. It is a bad deal

President Obama should not give into blackmail. If blackmail is allowed to work then the tea party nut cases will win

[Coyotl]

41. Think about how many voters will be registered before 2014 while enrolling for the ACA.

That is why the Rs soooo want the delay. And then next year they will want another delay!

[loyalsister]

144. Yep

It's about the 2014 election. They're afraid that Dems will pick up seats when it works.

[kysrsoze]

60. If he compromises, they'll know he has no spine and will do the same thing next year.

This is blackmail, pure and simple. He should veto and they can pay the repercussions of not compromising at all. They have shown they are willing to tank the economy and perhaps we all need one more lesson on how giving them any power will impact our futures.

[truebluegreen]

157. They won't wait until next year. They'll do it on the debt ceiling. nt

[kelliekat44]

77. And they will ask for more and more concessions as all blackmailers do. And

if this law is delayed...funding is delayed....it will be totally destroyed because many of the pegs of a successful system rest on the foundation of gradual and scheduled implementation. Remember, coverage will not even begin until January, and people have time to sign up until March 2014. If the first part of this does not get funded the rest of it will not succeed. No matter what. If Obama get blamed he is able to handle it. He's not running for office again and his legacy of being the first AA President elected to office..twice..will never be removed.

[Gothmog]

143. You can not negotiate with terrorists

If President Obama backs down here the country will be impossible to govern

[TheDebbieDee]

226. You're right! The repukes are acting like terrorists!

After 9-11, all the damage to this nation and it's infrastructure has been as a direct result of republicant policies!

[Cha]

165. Tea party terrorists. Fixed it.

[RKP5637]

213. More and more people need to start calling them what they are, Tea Party Domestic Terrorists. They

want to defund the government, they want to take the government down, they want to set themselves up as dictators. Excuse my language, but fuck, how much more evidence is needed that we have domestic terrorists operating in this country called the Tea Party. Patriots, what a joke, they are as far away from being patriots for America as one can get. They, are out to destroy the country. They aren't a political group, they are a terrorist organization IMO!

[Cha]

243. Yes Indeed!

http://www.democraticunderground.com/10023748785

[JimDandy]

242. Exactly! n/t

[stopbush]

187. Yep. The way the threat of the sequester forced everybody in DC to "work on fixing" the debt limit.

Not!

[Lasher]

2. He shouldn't compromise on anything until the last minute.

Then he should reluctantly agree to give up the individual mandate, but nothing else.

[bluestate10]

11. No. The individual mandate underpins the program, without it, Obamacare become a cash

drain on the treasury. If healthy, younger people like me are allowed to opt out because we don't think we will get hurt or become ill, the system will just concentrate sick or elderly people, raising costs for everyone, including state governments and the Federal government.

[Lasher]

25. You mean like Medicare?

The mandate is a Heritage Foundation idea.

[bluestate10]

33. Medicare is a completely different program and you should know that.

People pay Medicare taxes all of their working lives, so they are largely paid in.

Medicaid is more focused on people that can't afford healthcare at all, I think Obamacare will make Medicaid more efficient and lower costs for the program due to the strong preventative care component of Obamacare. Patients that get quality preventative care don't move on to very costly treatments at the same rate as patients that don't get preventative medical care.

[Lasher]

49. Medicare does not include healthy, younger people like you.

It concentrates on elderly people, raising costs for everyone. This is your description of Obamacare without the mandate. How is it that your same words do not apply to Medicare?

Oh, and Medicare is partly funded by income taxes paid on Social Security benefits. So it's a "drain on the treasury" too.

[bluestate10]

93. Your observation is true given the current state of affairs.

One of the appealing aspects of Obama care for me is the focus on preventative care. I thought that I was clear on that view in one of my posts in this thread. Medicare currently have sicker people, but preventative care will vastly reduce the number of people that allow conditions to worsen until they get expensive illnesses. So, I state my argument again, Obamacare WILL result in Medicare AND Medicaid cost less. Once the health care industry is directed more toward preventative care, that change will infuse into Medicare and Medicaid, that dynamic is beneficial in the ways explained.

[bluestate10]

97. BTW. This is a good back and forth. Neither of us are name calling, just presenting our

information and how we interpret that information.

[Lasher]

109. Refreshing, isn't it?

Fair and civil debate seems hard to find these days.

If Obama were to agree to at least a one year delay of the mandate, that Republican 'victory' would actually translate to a big political win for Democrats. Please consider my downthread explanation here.

[dballance]

251. Wow, Lasher and Bluestate you're Great!

Thanks for having a nice, civil discussion.

I can be quite an ass sometimes but when I step back and try to understand others' point of view it is usually very rewarding.

[jeff47]

192. Actually, it does.

Medicare works just like every other health insurance. The healthy pay to cover the sick.

In the case of Medicare, "the healthy" is (virtually) all taxpayers. And while all taxpayers are paying, they are not all eligible for care.

[Lasher]

256. That is true.

But I object to the characterization. You pay while you're young so you'll qualify for benefits when you get old. It's similar to a retiree medical benefit that is earned from an employer. You have to work a certain number of years in order to qualify for the benefit later. So you earn it when you're healthy so that you yourself will be covered when you are older.

Then there's Part B premiums and deductibles. Only those on Medicare, and therefore only those over 65, bear these costs.

But it's like you say, it's like other health insurance.

[jeff47]

257. No, you've still got it wrong.

You pay while you're young so you'll qualify for benefits when you get old.

Nope. You get Medicare no matter what when you turn 65.

Social Security pays out based on what you paid in. Medicare always pays.

Then there's Part B premiums and deductibles. Only those on Medicare, and therefore only those over 65, bear these costs.

Nope, they're subsidized by taxes. The insurance bought by seniors covers the portion not paid by Medicare.

[Lasher]

266. I beg to differ.

You:

You get Medicare no matter what when you turn 65.

The Social Security Administration:

Most people 65 or older are eligible for Medicare hospital insurance (Part A) based on their own—or their spouse's— employment. You are eligible at 65 if you:

Receive Social Security or railroad retirement benefits;

Are not getting Social Security or railroad retirement benefits, but you have worked long enough to be eligible for them;

Would be entitled to Social Security benefits based on your spouse's (or divorced spouse's) work record, and that spouse is at least 62 (your spouse does not have to apply for benefits in order for you to be eligible based on your spouse's work) ;or

Worked long enough in a federal, state, or local government job to be insured for Medicare.

http://ssa-custhelp.ssa.gov/app/answers/detail/a_id/400/~/how-to-qualify-for-medicare

There are exceptions to these rules, but you are clearly wrong; you do not "...get Medicare no matter what..."

Whether premiums and deductibles are subsidized or not, they are paid only by those who receive Medicare benefits. Going by your logic, groceries are free because the government pays farm subsidies.

[jeff47]

272. Still no.

Your list is people who can get Medicare part A without paying a premium.

Everyone 65 and older can get Medicare. If you qualify, the taxpayers pay 100% of your premium. If you don't qualify, the taxpayers still help because the premium is several orders of magnitude lower than what private insurance would cost.

Here's a handy little widget if you want to play around with it:
http://www.medicare.gov/MedicareEligibility/home.asp

Whether premiums and deductibles are subsidized or not, they are paid only by those who receive Medicare benefits. Going by your logic, groceries are free because the government pays farm subsidies.

Wow....really stupid argument.

If the premiums and deductibles are subsidized, they're cheaper for the recipient. Which is why I said "subsidized". "Free" was applied by you.

But even worse, the premiums and deductibles aren't what's subsidized. The subsidy comes in the form of coverage for 80% of the Part B expense. Part B insurance is private insurance to cover the remaining 20% (Presuming traditional Medicare. Medicare Advantage screws this up).

[rhett o rick]

240. Medicare is a very broad category. What do you mean? Part A is free, paid for by your deductions

from your pay. So I doubt you are talking about Part A. Part B doesnt have a mandate but has stiff fines for late enrollment. That accomplishes what the mandate does.

Obamacare needs the mandate irregardless of whose idea it was.

[dkf]

35. Can young people really afford this?

How much money do they bring in since 26 year olds are on their parents policies anyway and their salaries are probably lower and subsidized in the marketplace?

Are they really bringing in money or is this back door Government funding?

[bluestate10]

104. I don't get subsidies because of what I earn. But, yes, I can afford it.

I have an added advantage in that I live in the only state that has implemented healthcare reform.

The fact is, people with low salaries will get subsidies from the Federal government and if they live in certain states, from the state. The benefit for the Feds and forward-looking states will be lower costs for Medicare, Medicaid, and less tax-loss deductions for hospitals that are trying to recover some bad debt. Some of the savings will go to subsidies, but most will go to general revenue. One other unstated gain from Obamacare is that health care costs for PRIVATE companies will decrease because the plans those companies offer will be less affected to higher rates that doctors, hospitals and insurance companies charge due to unrecoverable debt.

A fact, which you can't refute is that the already implemented parts of Obamacare have reduced the budget deficit and put money back into the pockets of some consumers.

[dkf]

117. Um yes... Extra taxes in there you know.

The taxes were implemented earlier than the subsidies to make the 10 year numbers look better.

If it hadn't improved the deficit that would be worrying since the subsidies haven't started yet.

[JDPriestly]

122. Here is an example of how this bill will save money in the long run.

Let's say you have a person who is working but earning minimum wage and getting no insurance.

Let's say this person has a drug dependency or a mental illness but at the moment is suffering from severe hypothermia or diarrhea or has an injury. When symptoms become acute, the police pick the patient up from the street and take him/her to the emergency room.

The doctor admits the patient but when the immediate problem has been resolved, the hospital is left with a huge unpaid bill because that patient was not insured and will never have the money to pay the bill. The patient may even be almost homeless.

If the patient is in a state with a strong Medicaid program, someone may help the patient get a primary care doctor. But often, the doctor has no ability to make sure the patient follow through or avoids a repeat visit to the emergency and a hospital stay for a problem that could be more cheaply and effectively handled if the patient had a primary care doctor and maybe a social worker helping out.

We waste a lot of money on people who return to the hospital when they really need much less expensive primary care. It is a waste of the time of the hospital staff including top doctors.

So the ACA will actually save a lot of money in this and other ways. If people get a prescription but can't afford to fill it, the medical care that resulted in the prescription is a waste. That is another huge problem we have now. People can go to a doctor in the hospital, but they don't have the money to take a routine prescription so the hospital care is useless.

The ACA will save a lot of money. But everyone needs insurance. Everyone needs access to medical care. Just in case.

[Bluenorthwest]

82. You really don't think you can get sick or hurt? Seriously?

Before I was 30 I saw at least a dozen age peers die or suffer extreme injury or illness. Fuck, a kid in my high school died of leukemia, a newlywed teacher died of a heart attack in the parking lot. My cousin was killed in a car crash during 'grad week' and her boyfriend seriously injured.
Not sure what world folks live in where young people are never sick, never hurt. In the actual world, young people are mortal like others and die.
When I was young I made lots of money. I had more of everything than my age peers. The one item most often mentioned to me as an object of desire was my health insurance. That's right. Other 25 year olds did not say 'I wish I had that car, house, first class ticket to NYC' they said 'I'd sleep better if I could have insurance like you get'.
I never met any of these alleged young people who think they are above all ill health. How can women of reproductive age think they need no health care? Only an idiot would think there is no need for prenatal care and a good place to deliver. Are all young women idiots who imagine they will give birth during a coffee break at the office?
I just don't buy this 'young people are too stupid to buy insurance' concept. If it is affordable they will snap it up.

[bluestate10]

107. I didn't claim that I can't get sick or hurt. Where did you see that?

My point was that some younger people will use that reasoning, which is a trap. If a person isn't insured and is getting regular checkups, how can that person say that he or she isn't becoming grossly ill? Preventative medicine isn't free, but a illness can costs 100 times or more what a preventative procedure costs.

[kelliekat44]

84. Besides, the individual mandate was an originally a GOP idea!! That needs to be pressed more by the

media. It was only after Obama agreed with it that the GOP turned against it. It used to be all about "individual responsibility"..remember? But then, the GOP meant individual responsibility on the part of you worthless, unemployed, or poor working class moochers. The rich in Congress, of course, and working for those large corporations were entitled to government run or government subsidized (through huge corporate tax breaks) health care insurance.

[Lasher]

101. Yes, the Heritage Foundation came up with that one.

This would be a smart move for Obama. The mandate is arguably the most disagreeable part of Obamacare. Its postponement for one year is one of the GOP demands on the table. That would take us right up to next year's midterms.

In that case voters wouldn't be subjected to the objectionable experience of being forced to buy insurance in a cumbersome system that has lots of kinks to work out - all the while noticing that millions are still without coverage.

The GOP’s lose-lose proposition

[loyalsister]

150. It's an underrated piece of the ACA

The individual mandate is a step toward divorcing healthcare from employment. When a young person can buy their own policy, they can take jobs they want with that one missing piece. I have heard many people who find themselves in that predicament. Especially if they want to work for a non-profit with few employees or something.

[duffyduff]

173. Worst possible thing barring single-payer

You do understand that for employees of very large companies, they pay little or nothing for their own insurance. People are right to be fearful about this law, because you KNOW there will be loopholes where large companies will ditch their health insurance just as they ditched private pensions in favor of garbage 401(k)s.

One of the things I truly resent about this corporate welfare bill called the ACA is the notion that "we" must take "responsibility" for our health care when we can't fucking afford private insurance premiums, let alone the OUTRAGEOUS deductibles for lousy coverage.

[loyalsister]

174. One of the things I most resent from the right and left

is that they KNOW all of these things that are going to happen. Outrageous deductibles and unaffordable premiums. Where is your evidence? These things are unknowns. Hysterical speculation is what we are getting from republicans. Only they are actually lying by saying it has failed already.
People need to grow up and actually wait for the actual results as it comes into effect.

[questionseverything]

195. aca calculators

http://laborcenter.berkeley.edu/healthpolicy/calculator/

http://kff.org/interactive/subsidy-calculator/

[loyalsister]

212. and

"Actual premiums in the Exchange are not yet known. The premiums in this calculator reflect national estimates from the Congressional Budget Office for silver plans, adjusted for premium inflation and age rating."

[questionseverything]

223. honestly i hope these calculators are wrong

for a family of 3,parents in their 50's with 75 grand a yr of income the consumer part of premium is $7125 with a 12,700 dollar out of pocket cap...thats $19,825 a year or 26% of income

for smokers it is 33% of income as the premium goes up to $12,366 plus 12,700 out of pocket

i do not know any working families that have 26% of their income that is not already promised every month

i have looked at a half dozen calculators from different groups, all were within 4 or 5 dollars on the premium

many aspects of aca are great,,,but if these are accurate ,they are not affordable

[Chan790]

279. No...the mandate is a non-negotiable part in this.

If we have to compromise on anything...compromise on the medical devices tax on the condition the GOP offset the revenues from military spending or energy subsidies. Additionally demand some hostages of our own...like the death of Keystone XL and an indexed minimum wage.

Wager they fold faster than my cousin's punk-rock accordion.

[Siwsan]

3. No!

No, no, no, NO. I am so sick and FREAKING tired of people enabling the lying, greedy, soul-less, right-wing nut job BULLIES.

[LiberalLoner]

31. +1

[trumad]

4. I know literally a dozen people who are stoked to get insurance.

and that's just my group of friends.

So you're telling these people to wait because a bunch of tea bag douchebags say so.

Jesus Christ on a trailer hitch.

[Maeve]

44. I'm one of those people

Wait to get insurance ANOTHER year???? hell, no!

[Zorra]

70. Same here. Some are finally going to be able to get treatment for conditions they

have that they could never before afford to have treated.

Delaying the exchanges would be incredibly cruel for these folks.

[DefenseLawyer]

5. No one who is reasonable would conclude that the Democrats are the unreasonable party in this idiocy

It's your kind of thinking that has led the President to all the horrible deals he has made with the Republicans already. Enough.

[bluestate10]

6. You are dead wrong. Republicans want the delay to kill the law, that is clear to anyone

that has been observing the debate over Obamacare. Republicans could have taken many efforts to "improve" the bill, but instead focused on denying all the good change that the earliest implemented parts have accomplished. The way to fix problems is to move forward, identify problems and implement fixes, anyone that runs a business know this truism.

Republicans won't gain from a shutdown. The business community will abandon them and some of their base who don't get their government checks will yell at them. And because Obamacare is likely to be more popular in 2014, republicans will face a hard time at polls when voters reflect on them doing nothing but obstruction since taking over the House in 2010.

Sorry, but giving up to hostage taking is nothing but begging for setbacks that will cost the nation dearly.

[Uben]

7. Are you kidding?

You want to make those with life-threatening diseases wait another year for insurance coverage? Aint gonna happen. You don't cave to extortion...and that IS what this is.

[DCBob]

8. no way. in fact its really too late.. the wheels are already in motion.

Obamacare is a done deal.

[karynnj]

265. True and stopping them for a year is really a RW gambit to kill it forever

The first thing is that they likely would not fund anything needed to restart the effort.

In addition, many states have spent large sums of money and have hired people to work on the implementation starting this week!

[ZRT2209]

9. now is a good time for me to add you to Full Ignore.

so don't bother replying to me - I won't be able to see it

[bluestate10]

22. I agree. Ignoring views than make one angry doesn't lead to any change. nt

[ZRT2209]

118. that's what the Admins recommended for trolls, and I smell troll.

[bluestate10]

21. I was stunned by the confused reasoning, but that shouldn't get a person set to Ignore.

I have said before, I think Ignore is the domain of intellectual cowards. Please don't take my view as a personal attack on you, it is more of an attack on the concept that people should be allowed to silence views that make them angry instead of taking those views on full-scale. Please reconsider your decision to set the OP to Ignore, only you can make that choice.

[Squinch]

53. That's nice, dear.

[bluestate10]

88. I have a big problem with ignoring stuff that makes one uncomfortable.

I was taught by my parents to fight for what I believe in. The only way that I am going to be able to argue against a view is to see and read it and try to understand what the poster intended.

[Squinch]

95. Good for you!

[Warpy]

178. Igonore is the online equivalent

to walking away from an abusive blowhard at a cocktail party.

[chervilant]

90. Intellectual cowards?!?

Two things:

1) the misogynists, sexists, and verbal bullies I've relegated to Ignore richly deserve to be ignored; and

2) the preponderance of anti-IL posts from the sanctimonious among us contribute nothing to the political discourse.

I hate to be the one to break it to you -- not every utterance that's posted online deserves attention.

[liberal from boston]

121. Unbelievable!!!

President Obama SHOULD NOT negotiate w/ domestic terrorists. The 2012 election decided this & President Obama won!!! It lays at the feet of the corrupt GOP leadership--Boehner, McConnell & the other crazies--Cruz, Lee, etc. Can President Obama sign an executive order to bypass this nonsense???

[snooper2]

275. Is there a such thing as Partial Ignore?

[jsr]

10. No. Let them shut down the government.

[Katashi_itto]

12. Bull, they will just pull this again and again. No Deal.

Its enablers like you that got us to this point. Welcome to full ignore.

[Autumn]

13. No.

[BenzoDia]

14. Republicans will just pull the same stunt and ask for another year delay when the time comes.

[MoonRiver]

15. NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO n/t

[Scuba]

17. No.

[malaise]

18. Huh?

[Pretzel_Warrior]

19. Uh, no. Not even close.

It's hilarious you even bring this up. Somebody hasn't been paying attention. Or is just trolling.

[99Forever]

20. Nope.

Nothing for the terrorists. Zero. Zilch. Zippo.

Capitulating is for suckers.

[truebluegreen]

158. Nada!

[surrealAmerican]

23. You do realize that next year ...

... they're not going to let the program be implemented either, right?

They'll be doing the same thing again, unless they somehow get enough of a majority in the Senate next year to repeal it completely.

[erpowers]

201. Next Year

During the year period President Obama will have time to explain the program to people. I think if people understand the program Republicans will not be able to push for more delays.

[steve2470]

204. I'm going to assume you do not pay attention to the news....

correct ? I'm being kind here btw.

[erpowers]

209. I Do Pay Attention to the News

[steve2470]

211. ok...then in the past 3+ years what else was PBO supposed to do ?

I don't know about you but I think that's plenty of time for anyone with a brain to get educated about the new law. You don't have to be a health insurance lawyer to know what you need to know.

Again, I'm assuming you're being sincere about this thread.......

[erpowers]

215. People Are Unaware About Program

Maybe it is not President Obama's fault, but polls show a number of people are confused or unaware about parts of the program. Maybe he could have done a few prime time Oval Office speeches in order to try to assure people became informed about the program.

I am aware of the program, but it seems other are not. I think there are things about the program that can still be explained to people.

[steve2470]

216. after October 1st there's plenty of time to get educated and make a choice

I'm guessing you're not a straight ticket Democratic voter or Democratic Party activist, correct ?

[steve2470]

220. the PPACA went into effect 3 years and over 6 months ago

The Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (PPACA),[1] commonly called the Affordable Care Act (ACA) or Obamacare,[2][3] is a United States federal statute signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 23, 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Patient_Protection_and_Affordable_Care_Act

Together with the Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act,[4] it represents the most significant regulatory overhaul of the country's healthcare system since the passage of Medicare and Medicaid in 1965.

Same link as above.

The Health Care and Education Reconciliation Act of 2010 (Pub.L. 111–152, 124 Stat. 1029) is a law that was enacted by the 111th United States Congress, by means of the reconciliation process, in order to amend the Patient Protection and Affordable Care Act (Pub.L. 111–148). It was signed into law by President Barack Obama on March 30, 2010.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Health_Care_and_Education_Reconciliation_Act

I think people have had more than adequate time to be educated, AND....there's still plenty of time left. The not enough time argument does not make sense, sorry.

[karynnj]

267. More than that - next year they would be voting before the 2014 election

and people will not have seen what ACA really is yet.

I doubt that any program of this scope will be flawless and work for all, but compared to what the scare mongers on the right have said, it will be pretty innocuous and for many a pleasant surprise.

[Atman]

24. Absolutely ridiculous! Have you learned nothing?

The President will be called weak, the GOP will do a happy dance and parade out all their favorite Obama haters on the corporate media, the Democrats will be infuriated, NOTHING will get accomplished, and the Republicans -- loving the taste of blood -- will just come back for more.

Have you learned about the futility of compromise with these treasonous bastards?

[Pakid]

26. Never negotiate with terrorist

and that is what the GOP has become. What will they demand next the end of SS or Medicare/Medicaid. Never and I mean never give these slimy SOB an inch they could care less about what happens to the American people it all about serving their rich overloads who's greed knows no bounds

[MineralMan]

27. No. Neither the President nor the Senate

should cave-in to Republican extortion. Not in any way should the teabaggers get their way.

[northoftheborder]

28. NO, NADA, NYET. That just postpones the excuse for the same stunt over and over.

[bunnies]

29. They just want the delay so they can run against it next year.

Fuck that. Fuck them. The answer is NO!

[no_hypocrisy]

30. Pull my finger . . . . .

This is a deal to delay the ACA for a year but fund the government for a few months. What will the republicans demand in December? To defund the ACA? Defund Social Security? Defund Medicare? Criminalize abortion and/or birth control? You are giving Congress the ability to deconstruct the Constitution "one deal" at a time.

You can't negotiate with terrorists within and without.

[pinto]

32. Republicans should clean their own House of obstructionist extremists.

No dealing with them. ACA's here. And like Soc. Sec. and Medicare, it can be tweaked as needed, in practice, over time.

[bluestate10]

38. BINGO!!! nt

[CherokeeDem]

34. No....

The Republicans are maneuvering this process to bring the debate over health care into the 2014 elections. We take this away from them once and for all. I do not want the government to shutdown, but sometimes we have to do the difficult thing.

[durablend]

36. I just KNEW one of you were out there

If President Obama and the Democrats take the deal I think they will come away from this looking reasonable.

No, they come out looking like CHUMPS.

In which case, the other side WILL (not might...WILL) be back for more next time.

[Coyotl]

37. Then next year he should take the same deal, or a worse one, right?

Get real!

[ancianita]

39. After six years of manipulative shenanigans, you really believe they want to "fix" ANYthing??

They want to buy time to buy more sellouts to get the votes to rescind this, that's all.

[PCIntern]

40. In keeping with the OP

Obama should also resign along with Biden and demand that 5 senators whose states have Republican governors should also resign and allow right-thinking individuals to take their places. Yeah that would work out well...it is a good deal, we should take it...

"WTF?" is all I have to say...

on edit: why don't you give Eddy Rendell a call and have a drink with him. He suggested Gore give up the recount the first sunday after the election of 2000. He was only the head of the DLC at the time...

Jesus H. Christ.

[durablend]

42. NO NEGOTIATING WITH TERRORISTS!!!!!

Why haven't we learned this?

[Gothmog]

145. Agreed

If President Obama negotiate with these blackmailers then the country will be subject to blackmail at each deadline

[PowerToThePeople]

43. No.

I am not fond of the mandate. I am not fond of being forced to give profits to insurance industry. He should not take the deal.

[WilliamPitt]

45. Where am I?

[Sheepshank]

46. So Reps are already compromising..first it was to defund, now it's to delay

They are grasping for relevancy. I don't think there is a good reason to delay. There is every better reason to move forward.

No matter when it starts, there will be hiccups...no matter whether it starts 10/1/13 or 10.31.14. Only in practice can it be ironed out...JUST LIKE FLA (Family Leave Act)., SS, Medicare and Medicaid.

[Nye Bevan]

47. And one year from now, what do you think would happen?

The Republicans would meekly allow Obamacare to take effect? As opposed to threatening to blow up the economy again in exchange for further delay or full repeal?

[MH1]

59. Also, what right wing policies will they try to extort from the debt ceiling deadline?

Once they are successful getting Dems to cave on the Affordable Care Act?

[BlueToTheBone]

48. Bullshit. People need health care NOW

and if the President caves on this, the bullies will extract more.

[tabasco]

50. Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!!

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha!!

[Alkene]

51. Really?

So you want me to spend the next year without affordable health insurance, and I can only hope that nothing catastrophic happens, that I can avoid healthcare needs? And you wish this for me based on your political calculations?

What's it like up there, in that rarefied state, where your policy positions are an abstraction for political debate rather than a real concern?

[MH1]

52. 1. If we were dealing with reasonable, honorable people,

some of your points might be valid.

But, we aren't.

2. The Republicans can't claim they only want to "fix" the program after 41 or so votes to REPEAL it.

3. What problems are you talking about with the program? The biggest problem is that people don't know the facts about it, and that is because the republicans have successfully derailed any normal government promotion of the new program. Delaying it will only cause more confusion. In this case the sooner it starts, the sooner some people get helped, and more people will understand it sooner.

[Sheepshank]

66. You have a point...they voted 41 times to repeal/defund Obamacare

...let's just consider what might be their true end game here is getting a delay.

50+ more voting sessions. Time wasted that could be spent on actual governing...keeps re-counting votes to repeal ACA until they finally get the numbers. And how do they get the numbers? By convincing themselves, their constituents and fellow elected officials that ACA must surely be severely flawed because it keeps getting put off....and you want to give them the additional time to organize such an eventuality?

[erpowers]

197. Computer Glitches Helpers Not Certified

The main problems so far have been computer glitches and websites not being ready. Also some of the people who were going to help others sign up for the program have not been certified. after that there are a few other problems.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/national/health-science/reports-of-computer-problems-and-logistical-glitches-proceed-launch-of-obamacare/2013/09/27/4ca18dcc-2792-11e3-b3e9-d97fb087acd6_story_1.html

[Logical]

54. LOL, nice hit and run! n-t

[Squinch]

55. This is a joke, right?

[Harmony Blue]

56. No!

You can't let the government be hijacked by a select few.

[hollowdweller]

57. Is this the way the country will be run from now on?

I mean how many times have the Democrats shut down the government when we had a republican president??


When truly awful republican things passed the democrats mostly have just looked to the next election or to trying to win the majority to change things.


We don't really hear the talking heads talking about it, really, but my concern is if we continue to compromise and especially on laws that have already been passed then we are really undermining our democracy in a historically bad way.


If you look at these places like Egypt or Syria or some of the other unstable countries aren't we getting more like that? Where the side that doesn't get it's way just resorts to extreme measures to sabotage the other party rather than relying on winning a majority and doing something about it?

I know Democrats are the more responsible party, but with this shutdown thing happening with the last 2 presidents if the dems start doing it too which there's no reason why they shouldn't if this is the new game, it sort of ups the instability in our country and paves the way for a civil war or something.

[notadmblnd]

58. Bullshit! the President should make no compromises with these thugs. Let them shut it down

The republicans will be blamed and will lose the midterms. So don't come here to float shit because shit doesn't float.

[warrior1]

61. we don't negotiate with terrorist

fuck the republicans

[DinahMoeHum]

62. Big fat FTS on that. They'll keep moving the goal posts.

FTS = Fuck That Shit

[Heather MC]

63. ErPowers you are DEAD WRONG

The Repugs ultimate Goal is to delay until after the 2014 elections
because they are hoping they will win the majority in the House and Senate when they do that they will promptly Vote to get rid of the ACA for good

DO NOT FALL FOR THE OKEY DOKEY

Their Idea of "Fixing" is not the same as Our idea of "fixing"
I will not attack you Erpowers I believe your heart is i nthe right place but you are trusting the wrong people
good luck!

[bluestate10]

73. In addition. If Democrats cave in, every bill or deadline that comes up will be

used by republicans to extort what republicans want. No settled law will be safe, women's rights gains will be endangered, gay rights gains will be endangered, environmental gains will be endangered, the gains that Obamacare has already bought about in public health will be endangered.

There is no reason to negotiate with terrorists, House republicans are terrorists.

[Heather MC]

81. Tea Turds should be hand cuffed and placed on trial for Treason

There is not excuse for this non and we should never Negotiate with Terrorist

I would love to see Ted Cruz do a perp walk back to Canada

[liberal from boston]

123. Thank you--they should be placed on trial for Treason

Obvious these tea baggers are NOT doing the people's business. Cruz, Lee & Rand Paul & the other RWNJ should be called on the floor of Congress & censured individually by name.

[truebluegreen]

159. Sedition actually,

treason is for colluding with foreign governments.

But I would love to go past "censure".

[Dyedinthewoolliberal]

64. No flame here but I disagree :)

This is poker and he has to call their bluff. They will end up with the political fall out, not the President. Congress writes and passes the laws, the President carries them out. Effective Jan 1 the ACA goes into full effect. Why do the R's want to stop it? I think because they are worried it will be successful..........

[winter is coming]

65. The last "deal" we took landed us in the sequester. Yeah, that "unthinkable" sequester

sure has been an incentive for bipartisanship, now hasn't it?

[MrsKirkley]

67. The health insurance exchange application includes voter registration.

Republicans are afraid voters will tie the subsidies they are getting to Democrats (which they should) and as a result, will vote for Democrats. This is a great opportunity for Democrats to regain the House. With Democrats once again in control of both the House and Senate, the law can be improved so it helps even more people. If President Obama takes the deal, he throws that opportunity away.

[bluestate10]

79. The Exchanges don't include voter registration. A person have to put in their Zip code so that

local rates could be calculated. Some private groups that are helping patients in red states may include voter registration in their efforts, but the Exchanges themselves don't.

[MrsKirkley]

100. There was a thread on the boards here saying they did

and that the issue might end up going to court.

[jeff47]

262. The exchanges don't, but the law says you have to offer it while people sign up. (nt)

[Jefferson23]

68. If Obama takes the deal he'll look reasonable to who? I would like to know.

Who are these people, exactly?

[Guy Whitey Corngood]

69. Fuck that and fuck them. If anything he could make a prime time

address explaining to the country why these psychopaths are up to and why they do what they do. To hell with these underdeveloped troglodytes. It's the same shit every time.

[backscatter712]

71. Fuck that. The Republicans need to be fucking curbstomped if they shut down the government.

We don't negotiate with terrorists. Otherwise, they'll keep taking hostages and extorting.

Don't give a fucking inch to them. Let them shut down the government. We'll bring the blowback on their fucking heads.

Put their mouths on the curb!

[qanda]

72. What in the world?

This is probably one of the worst reasoned arguments I have ever seen on DU. Take the deal so the Republicans can gain points. Brilliant!

[NightWatcher]

74. And do WHAT when they delay it again?

If you give them an inch they'll take a mile

[alcibiades_mystery]

75. 775 views, 73 responses, 0 recommendations

That's a pretty astounding feat you pulled off.

[bluestate10]

85. Several people have made recommendations.

Do you run a business or other organization? If you did, you will know that an organization can plan a implementation well, but that the organization must be prepared to make adjustments as the plan is implemented. That is simply how such things work. You didn't see recommendations because you didn't look for any.

[durablend]

91. He means the THREAD hasn't gotten any rec's n/t

[alcibiades_mystery]

96. ROFL

Yeesh!

[erpowers]

208. Not Concerned

I am not a troll, but I am also not concerned about recommendations. I did not put up the post with the hope or expectation of getting recommendations. I posted to give my opinion and get the opinions of others. I assume most people do not create posts to get recommendations.

[darkangel218]

217. lol

[alcibiades_mystery]

237. It doesn't matter whether you *wanted* recommendations: the fact that you've received none

STILL, with 230+ responses and over 2,000 views is indicative of the weakness of your argument. Your argument is shit. You can't find anybody who will support it with a rec. That's pathetic, regardless of your intentions. Unless your intention was to make a silly argument that nobody in the broad spectrum of DU could even come close to agreeing with. In that case, bravo! It's hard to get 2000 views and not a single recommendation. It's only a spectacularly stupid argument that could reach that high bar.

[JCMach1]

76. Hell no...

How many more people need to die because health insurance is not available?

No No No

[BeyondGeography]

78. Comical

Maybe hand the presidency over while he's at it, since it's obviously worthless.

[durablend]

80. Hi Third Way Manny

Just wanted to give the proper shout-out since I forgot before

[jsr]

83. I'd say take the deal if they throw in free rustproofing and undercoating

[DefenseLawyer]

111. See, they install that Tru-coat down at the factory. There's really nothing we can do about it

But I'll talk to my boss

[gordianot]

86. No No No and all the oxygen has left the room.

Flame will not burn. This was the Republicans firing on Fort Sumpter.

[sheshe2]

87. NO!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[itsrobert]

89. Wow

No way in hell Obama or any Democrat should go along with this blackmail.

[Iggo]

92. Stupidest thing I've heard all weekend.

Come on.

[durablend]

94. Isn't there SOMEBODY to back up OP?!?

Surely there's some one that isn't going to leave him to hang out to dry here!

[JDPriestly]

98. No. The longer the implementation of the ACA is delayed, the longer people who need healthcare

do without it. How many lives will be lost in that time simply because people don't have healthcare? How much money will be wasted on emergency care when people could go to a GP for far less if they only had healthcare?

Further, we spent the best part of a year in 2008 thoroughly debating and considering the ACA bill. It took forever to get the bill through Congress. It's time to try it, see how it works and then, and only then, if necessary, tweak it or do away with it.

Plus, it has already been five years since the bill was passed. That is too long to wait to implement it already. And further, parts of it have already been implemented. It makes utterly no since to delay the final steps in implementation.

I disagree with your conclusion.

If President Obama and the Democrats take the deal they extend the period of time in which the Republicans can stir up irrational fear and dread of the program, tell lies about it and make people suffer. If they take the deal, they also extend the length of time the Republicans can grab headlines and look tough on the issue.

The Congress voted. The Supreme Court reviewed. It's time to get going on this. It's time to join all the other civilized, industrialized countries that have comprehensive health care programs for their people.

Enough already. Republicans need to grow up. Obama most definitely should just let the Republicans eat crow. If the government shuts down, the Republicans will be harmed severely. So will their voters -- more so than Democrats. Let the Republicans fry in their own fat. We should not help them out of the fire that they built for themselves.

Please think about the meaning of the Hastert Rule. Under that rule, the Republicans bring to the floor of the House only those bills that have majority support among Republican members of the House. That means that a bill with a majority of House votes based on all Democrats and maybe 17 or 18 Republicans cannot even come to the House floor much less get passed.

That seriously hampers the ability of Congress to solve problems, respond legislatively to pressing issues. That rule is a huge problem and needs to go before we compromise with Republicans on any other issues. It is that rule that is giving the Tea Baggers power way beyond their numbers in Congress.

[Liberal_Dog]

99. Absolutely Not

No fucking way.

[Marrah_G]

102. Bullshit

[andtheBeast]

103. They cannot stop the ACA. It is mandatory spending. Obama will make no deal.

Do more research before you prepare to capitulate.

[kydo]

105. bad idea - no deal

My husband works for the dod and is retired navy so we will get no money. Just when we are finally not poor we are poor again. But I blame the re-thugs 100%. I will from this day forward never ever even think to consider voting republican. I'm a pretty open forgiving type person but this is the last straw. Republicans are dead to me.

[BootinUp]

149. You are talking about the effect of the shutdown I take it.

I think it is important that these blackmail tactics are rejected, but I realize some people are going to suffer.

[demwing]

106. Never negotiate with terrorists or toddlers...

I leave it to you to decide if the Tea Baggers are one or the the other, or both!

[jsr]

108. Perfect!

[Old Navy]

110. Are you sure you're on the right board.

Free Republic is that way -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------\

When i say \, means you have to dig a 300 feet hole to get there.

[dgibby]

112. Interesting:

98 replies, no recs, no response from the op, who wants to cave to Bornagain Birchers. Congrats, erpowers, you've managed to do something no one else has-you've unified all the various factions on DU!

[rdharma]

114. I noticed that too! n/t

[rdharma]

113. Not a single REC for the OP

Lots of replies..... but not a single recommendation. I guess that shows what folks think of the OP's premise.

The President isn't going for this "deal".

[libdem4life]

115. My sister who works for $11 an hour will save $250 a month. That's $3,000 next year.

Now she can fully support herself...without help from her kids ... and she is very happy about it.

[Cirque du So-What]

116. Should-hood is shit-hood

and this OP is putrefying proof of that axiom.

[Robbins]

119. What are you a mole?

The worst thing would be doing what the racist party wants.


That gives more talking points for GOP to run on. If he delayed it he must know it's bad.

Republicans won't gain points.They are looking like spoiled children who throw a fit when they don't get their way.

[ljm2002]

120. No.

It is the height of folly to go along with the Republicans' ridiculous demands. The ACA law was duly enacted. It was hard fought every step of the way, but eventually Obama and the Democrats prevailed. Now the Republicans would like to nullify that fact by holding the country hostage to raising the debt ceiling -- something that is routinely raised when needed to pay debts already incurred by Congress itself.

It's a hell of a way to run a country, and if we cave to this sort of tactics, it will set a precedent. It will mean that any controversial law passed by Democrats, can be stopped, even after it has been duly passed. Does that sound like a formula for success for liberal and Democratic principles? Hell, no, it doesn't. It means we get weak-kneed at the prospect of a fight, and are willing to let the hardasses win any issue they want to as long as they are willing to fight dirty.

These fools need to be set back on their heels. I hope Obama and the Democrats stand firm.

[The Velveteen Ocelot]

124. Never negotiate with terrorists.

Don't give them anything. Don't offer them anything. It just emboldens them and they'll keep on demanding more and more concessions in exchange for not funding the government every time they don't get their way through the normal legislative process.

This is not the way democracy is supposed to work - not by extortion, which is exactly what this is.

Fuck them.

[kentuck]

125. Yeah...that would take us right up to the election next year.

Good thinking.

[babylonsister]

126. No, never. And cave to the gop? Nope. nt

[bowens43]

127. that would be a really fucking stupid thing for him to do.

there should never be a deal for this type of issue. Shutting the government down is a better option then negotiating with this ignorant, inbred assholes.

[riqster]

128. That's all about party politics.

From a HUMAN standpoint, I disagree completely.

We should focus on this simple mission: get people health care, get them as much as they can have, and as soon as they can have it.

[Lil Missy]

129. Very dumb idea.

[judy]

130. You must have health insurance, to say this...

And not counting the days 'til Obamacare goes into effect, so you can go to a doctor...

[bigwillq]

131. How much will it cost if there's a delay in ACA?

Money? Jobs?
Are there more risks or gains if it's delayed?

I don't know the answer to these questions.

[Blue Idaho]

132. So the TeaPublicans have a platform for the 2014 Election Cycle?

That's insane. The ACA is fully funded and ready to deploy. Kick it into gear and slam the door in the TeaPublicans faces.

We might as well have this fight right here - Right now.

[Stargazer09]

133. He's already backed down enough

He needs to stand firm. To do anything else would only be seen as a sign of weakness, and this country will never move forward.

Once the ACA goes into effect, it will no longer be as easy for the House to keep using the law as a bargaining chip.

[Yo_Mama_Been_Loggin]

134. So you're okay with the Republican restictions on birth control?

I also noticed you haven't responded to anyone. Post and run.

[B Calm]

135. 0 recommends!

[LittleBlue]

136. He should give up nothing

This is about establishing a precedent for delaying the ACA every year. If he takes a deal, they will demand it every year.

No compromise.

[Gothmog]

175. Agreed

You do not negotiate with terrorists

[darkangel218]

137. I thought this was a joke OP

Until I scrolled through the posts .. I can't fucking believe you even sugest this!!

Wtf??!????

[IDemo]

148. You thought correctly

Not one reply from the OP to anyone.

[Bobbie Jo]

138. No fucking way

Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:20 PM - Edit history (1)

The party of NO own this one.

[Vashta Nerada]

139. Um, no.

[DirkGently]

140. Then we'd have no government going forward.

Because they will hold the same gun to our collective heads every time. No federal law will mean anything, because Republicans will just threaten to blow up the government unless it is defunded or "delayed."

Or until Democrats have a majority in both houses. That will become the new normal, just like the 60-vote supermajority has become the new normal in the Senate.

What is at stake here is whether we have a functioning democracy at all any more.

If Republicans can do this, we do not.

[darkangel218]

141. .

[steve2470]

142. I'm starting to think this was your way of GBCW....

You haven't come back to defend yourself. You have no allies in this thread. I vigorously disagree with you. No need to spell out the reasons, the others have already done so well.

[Nevernose]

146. The Republicans can only lose in a government shut down

I realize what polls look like, but polls are short-sighted, because Americans are short-sighted. When it comes to most issues, given time most Americans will come around to the liberal POV. That's where the logic and morality usually is.

In this case, the Republican's position consists -- solely and entirely -- of "If you give poor people health insurance, we will shut down the entire government and do serious financial damage to the United States." This will get a few Tea Party types riled up, but for the most part it's a ludicrous position that will not go over well with the vast majority of Americans.

[BootinUp]

147. This is completely wrong headed.

The Dems must not yield to the madness. Stay the course. The ACA is a very important step for our country in fixing the lack of healthcare. This is the only reason the pukes are fighting it so hard. They know its now or never.

[abelenkpe]

151. No

Too many of my friends have been waiting desperately to sign up for the ACA. They needed it months ago. They need it more today. Absolutely No.

[Coyotl]

152. ZERO RECS, 2,000+ views, 150+ comments = says it all

[Gothmog]

176. 175 posts and no recs

[tblue37]

153. NO! The Dems have TRIED to get the Repubs to negotiate over ways to fix

the problems in the ACA, but the Repubs won't even enter into discussions. What makes you think they will suddenly start cooperating and negotiating once their intransigence has proven to get them exactly what they want, which is for people to still be terrified by the Repub lies about the ACA for another year, so that it will be a great campaign issue for them in 2014, whereas a year's experience with the ACA's benefits would remove that campaign issue for the Repubs and actually work in favor of Democratic candidates' election chances in 2014.

[SheilaT]

154. It's bad enough this part of the ACA was delayed this long -- some four years

from the passage of the original bill.

I was disgusted by that back then, even though I have excellent health care coverage of my own.

Wait another year? You're an idiot. Am I allowed to say that?

[uppityperson]

155. Pres Obama and the Democrats are already painted as "unreasonable" for not doing what the repubs

want with anything and everything.

No, they should not take the deal and taking the deal will do nothing to make them look "reasonable".

[AgingAmerican]

156. It isn't a deal

It's extortion and it would set a very dangerous precedent. They have had four years to get this thing ready. Let them iron out the wrinkles later.

[kwassa]

160. This is blackmail, not a deal. It will never end if Obama caves.

[Yo_Mama]

161. I understand all the arguments against yours

but the reality is that the President's administration has unilaterally decided not to put significant parts of the law into effect (such as the employer mandate), and I have no idea how things will play out electorally if this shutdown draws out.

I can absolutely conceive of the reps campaigning next year asking "why should you have to buy insurance when the law's mandate for employers to provide was just cancelled?" For some, that is going to be highly convincing.

I just don't know what the wisest course would be. I think the employer mandate should not have been suspended and I think the out-of-pocket coverage limitation should have been enforced.

[SomethingFishy]

162. What deal? There is no deal here. There are a bunch of children throwing a tantrum...

The deal was made on the ACA. It was compromised to the point where it is basically the same bill Republicans passed in Mass. The compromises were made, the right leaning Supreme Court validated it as law and Obama was reelected on the strength of it.

This is unprecedented bullshit. All the Republicans have are some cooked up polls saying the American people are against Obama care. The truth is only the standard 30% of loonies think this is a bad idea. Most people think it doesn't do enough.

[Spacemom]

163. I don't have a year to wait

For many people, getting insurance is a matter of life or death.

I need surgery now, putting it off for a year is not an option.

[rurallib]

164. would be the dumbest thing anyone could do - let me add that the media

given another year would be doing all it could to help the Repubs kill Obamacare.
They will do all they can to make Obama look bad.

Do you seriously believe that they would let Obamacare go in next year if they back it down this year?

[Blue_Roses]

166. Absolutely NOT!

No way should this health care law wait. People need healthcare NOW!

[BklnDem75]

167. Reasonable? Like the sequester deal, right?

How's that working out?

[jmowreader]

168. What will stop them from demanding another one-year delay in 2014?

The claim that "all they wanted was a year's delay" rings hollow when you consider the House hasn't attempted to delay Obamacare for a year forty-one times, they have attempted to repeal the law 41 times. If we give them a year's delay they'll ask for another and another until Obamacare eventually becomes a source of nostalgia..."hey, do you remember when that one black president fifty years ago tried to get everyone health insurance? Boy, was that ever a flop. They kept pushing it back and pushing it back until everyone just forgot about it..."

No, it's got to go into effect this year.

[Rex]

169. Never negotiate with terrorists.

How many times to I have to say it?

[WilliamPitt]

170. Congratulations, erpowers. You have done the impossible.

You have united DU.

[rdharma]

172. Exactly!

But I don't think that was the intention of erpowers' OP.

So the OP might be classified as a gigantic ........ FAIL!

[Starry Messenger]

171. That would be political suicide.

Anyway, who would fix it? Congress?

[DonCoquixote]

177. no

because, as is, they know Obama has comrpmised. If Obama cannot show spine with no ferar of an election, they will get bold for 2014 and 2016. On the other hand, this will force the GOp to either accept the blame, or stop.

[RagAss]

179. You must be one of those rich DU'ers....right?

[denbot]

180. Not no, but FUCK NO!

Me thinks thou protests too much..

[Skittles]

181. sorry, but you deserve the flaming you're getting

repukes are not being reasonable and neither are you

[darkangel218]

185. I dont think the OP cares

As he/she hasn't replied to one single post on here.

[Skittles]

188. no doubt they are posting the results on another board

[darkangel218]

190. Yah no kidding.

I thought the same but you know what happens if you spell it out loud. So I didn't say anything

:/

[Doctor_J]

182. Wrong. Giving in to terrorists does not make them stop

He will just face the same situation in a year. Your solution assumes the enemy is bargaining in good faith. They are not - they are liars, cheats, extortionists, and terrorists. At some point he going to have to stand up to them.

[SummerSnow]

183. No, Niet, Nai, Non

[handmade34]

184. NO...

[stopbush]

186. My family of 4 is DEPENDING ON OBAMACARE starting to get health insurance.

My wife's COBRA ran out. I'm unemployed. We have NO insurance coverage for the rest of 2013. We are depending on Obamacare to have insurance on Jan 1.

Rolling the dice for 4 months is one thing. Rolling the dice for 16 months is unacceptable.

Here's an idea: let us enroll as promised and fix the program as it goes.

I'm assuming you have health insurance.

[Tien1985]

189. No.

We're going to hurt either way, we should at least stick to our guns.

[Liberal_in_LA]

191. i have never seen apost with so many comments and zero recs

[dflprincess]

193. And what about the exchanges states have set up that open tomorrow? nt

[Samantha]

194. He absolutely should not take a deal

He has to send a message to the Republicans he will not be intimidated or coerced by their tactics. If he does not, he will be facing these types of tactics the rest of his second term.

There are always snafus in any major piece of new legislation. There are ironed out as they bubble to the top. The sooner the ironing starts, the sooner the wrinkles disappear.

The Republicans want this legislation stalled until after the 2014 elections because of the provision that everyone who signs up for insurance is guaranteed the right to register to vote at a Federal facility. This provision helps suppress that legislation passed by several Republican governors to deny many voters the right to vote. Federal law trumps state law and so allowing this legislation to go forward is the right thing to do on so many different levels.

And I didn't even mention the harm done to the uninsured if the Act is delayed....

But while I disagree with you, welcome to DU!

Sam

[yuiyoshida]

196. Disagree..

A lot of people could die in a year.

[Justice]

198. Only offering to continuing funding for a couple of months--lousy deal!!!!

Honestly, even if you are ready to accept the conditions (which I am not) they are only offering to continue funding for a few months, we are right back here with more demands. This is the line in the sand.

[JHB]

199. There is no "deal" and the only way to look reasonable is to put blame where it belongs...

On. The. Republicans.

Boehner has to be given a choice: your caucus or your country. Ditch the Hastert Rule and stop allowing fanatics to grind everything to a halt.

[JHB]

200. Oh, and 200 replies, still no recs!

[cordelia]

202. No.

[sendero]

203. No..

.... he should not. Presidents never give up anything to get this routine legislation passed. Why should they start now?

[lunasun]

205. Double minus ungood

[Owl]

206. No! Absolutely not!

[RKP5637]

207. With all respect, wrong logic IMO. Backing down when faced with obstructionists is not

a wise negotiation move ...

[Gravitycollapse]

210. People should be shit-canned from this website for making such OPs.

Which can essentially be summarized as: "We should fuck over millions of Americans and that will somehow make the Democrats look reasonable."

[kiranon]

214. If the Republicans want to change the ACA they can do so

using normal parliamentary procedures. They won't do it because they can't do it - they do not have the votes in the Senate and the President is a Democrat and it's his signature piece of legislation and unless the change is for the better he won't sign it. So they decided to use extortion - to hold the money hostage. They are not the majority and the President would be a fool to give in to their demands. It will encourage the Tea Party critters to do this over and over again. It would be the end of the Republic/Democracy. The President needs to hold fast and let the public discipline the Republicans for trying to extort the President and the people. And, they will at the polls.

[brooklynite]

218. So you think the Republicans should have a year to complain that "ACA doesn't work"?

Great strategy...

[Scootaloo]

219. And then next year, and the year after that, and the year after THAT...

[BootinUp]

221. K&R!

psyche!

[darkangel218]

222. Lmao!!!!

[Cali_Democrat]

224. fawk that noise. n/t

[pnwmom]

225. Here's why something that sounds reasonable isn't:

1. They've already acknowledged that the one year delay would be followed in another year by another threatened default accompanied by a demand for another one year delay. They would delay, delay, and then repeal, as soon as they got a chance.

2. Delaying the ACA won't help fund the government -- it's the opposite. The ACA is HELPING to balance the budget.

3. If we delayed the mandate but let the rest of the bill go forward, premiums would skyrocket, allowing the Rethugs to claim that the ACA doesn't work. And it doesn't -- without the mandate.

4. If we accept a delay in exchange for avoiding a shutdown, they'll just ask for more to avoid default in a couple weeks.

5. They have to learn that you don't run a government through extortion.

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/09/30/opinion/the-house-rushes-to-a-shutdown.html

Delaying the health law by a year, supported by all but two House Republicans, would prevent 11 million uninsured people from getting coverage in 2014 and raise premiums for those buying coverage in the individual insurance market. The real goal is not to delay but to destroy health reform by making it appear unworkable, in hopes that the public will not see the affordable premiums that will be available on the new health insurance exchanges where people can shop for plans starting Tuesday.

[doc03]

227. Are you nuts? If he gives in to a 1 year delay it will be the

end of his presidency and the ACA. You can't give in to extortion, next time the debt ceiling comes up they will make more demands. We have the presidency and the Senate, I don't see how any president could give into extortion, why even have elections.

[arely staircase]

228. the congressional republicans should take

a flying fuck at a rolling donut.

[mwooldri]

229. Republicans? Gain points? Want to fix the problems? What problems?

What problems exactly have been identified with the ACA, and what proposals have any member of the GOP Caucus in the House of Representatives actually made that identifies the problem, proposes a solution, and can demonstrate how it makes things better for the American People?

All I have heard is that the GOP caucus votes repeatedly to repeal the whole darned law, and proposes nothing... NOTHING! to replace it.

I can identify a problem: the ACA has not been marketed effectively by DHHS. The states that are doing it themselves seem to have done it well - I'm personally impressed with Kynect - Kentucky's implementation of the ACA & the marketplace. DHHS could learn from them. IMO the federal exchanges should have been branded at the state level. Those states "leaving it to the feds" would be forced to defend their position if the DHHS implementation of the marketplace in their state shines a spotlight on the States' shortcomings, especially about not accepting the Medicaid expansion.

Calling the whole thing "Obama Care" is a branding nightmare. He may have embraced it as a political term, but it should not have been touted out so much in the media... people hear "Obama Care" and have negative thoughts. But what if the DHHS branded the health exchange here in NC as "NC Health Plus" (just an example I'm throwing out there), and put the marketing muscle into it? Would North Carolinian's like "NC Health Plus" if underneath it all it is "Obama Care" ? What if South Carolinian's liked "SC Care Extra"? People in GA - would they like "Peach Health"? - I'm throwing out brands here that may or may not exist already... and my ideas of brand names are probably lousy....

The two biggest problems with ACA right now are a) marketing and branding, and b) nonconstructive criticism and no alternatives offered by the GOP. The marketing and branding can be fixed quickly enough (given the right help and the right cash) ... but the GOP can't be fixed from the outside. The GOP must realise that they are holding a non-cancellable, non-refundable ticket that is for a trip they missed out on a long time ago. They got to book new tickets rather than whining and moaning that their tickets cannot be accommodated for.

[AAO]

230. Extortion should not be rewarded.

Let 'em fry in their own grease.

[krawhitham]

231. It is not a deal, it just allows the GOP to try to kill or defund ACA for another year

[Motown_Johnny]

232. No No No No No

No deal, no matter what it is.

If we do this once we will need to do it every three months for the foreseeable future and beyond.

No deal, no matter what.

[sgtbenobo]

233. 231 replies and no rec's

Is that a record?


Carry on.

[B Calm]

258. and it's been viewed over 5,250 times and 0 recommends. A record, perhaps so!

[brush]

234. Who are you?

Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2013, 02:17 PM - Edit history (2)

Why should uninsured people wait because the repugs don't want the ACA to succeed.

You must have insurance. Is that why you think others can wait?

And Medicare, Social Security — all the successful government programs didn't start off glitch free.What does? There will be adjustments and changes made to get it running smoothly, just as with anything else.

Why should someone with a serious illness that they will finally be able to afford to get treated have to wait?

[Pholus]

235. No. This is just as much about next time...

The Republicans have to fail. They have to fail loudly and horribly so they never think about holding the country hostage again.

I'd have thought that 1992 should have taught them that, but they are slow learners.

Hang in there!

[highplainsdem]

236. No.

[TheKentuckian]

238. a poster said channeling Neville Chamberlain from the great beyond.

[SaveOurDemocracy]

239. Beyond ridiculous, as the response to your OP clearly shows. Must be nice not...

...having to worry about YOUR health insurance.

[markpkessinger]

241. There is a whole lot more at stake in this fight than the Affordable Care Act!

If a faction of one political party, in one house of Congress, is permitted to successfully extort concessions for a policy agenda for which it has been unable to be successful at the ballot box, we will have set a precedent that undermines the very foundation of democratic governance. At stake in this fight is no less than the integrity of the Constitutionally-provided process by which laws are made. Central to the proper operation of that process is the understanding that legislation, having been duly passed and signed into law (and in this particular case, having been declared constitutional after being challenged in the Supreme Court), will be implemented according to the terms of that legislation.

As for the notion that Republicans merely want to 'delay' the individual mandate for a year, that is merely the ostensible objective, not the real one. The real objective is to buy still more time to try to gin up -- by use of lies, fear-mongering and any other tactic the GOP thinks may have a shot at being successful -- popular opposition to the legislation. The fact is the penalty provided under the individual mandate for those who do not purchase insurance is very small for the first year. And when the penalty is fully in effect, it represents an amount that is substantially smaller than a person is likely to have to pay for insurance. So there is no good substantive argument for delaying it.

[spanone]

244. bullshit. a year from now they will pull the same shit.

[Hutzpa]

246. wtf!! No Caving this time. nt

[Th1onein]

247. DON'T YOU GET IT? IT'S ABOUT THE NEXT ELECTION!

If Obamacare goes into effect and people start to realize what it actually does for them, no Republican will be elected to office for at least a decade!

[Gothmog]

264. The GOP is terrified that the Affordable Care Act will work

The reason for the GOP tantrums is that they know that the Affordable Care Act will work.

[Th1onein]

280. Absolutely! If it were going to fail, they would do nothing.

They KNOW that they will lose elections countrywide, both locally and nationally, if Obamacare goes into effect. It's the closest thing that we've ever had to socialized medicine, like other Western industrialized countries have. And, despite the bullshit "horror" stories you hear about socialized medicine, the people of the countries that have it absolutely love it.

[donheld]

248. You deserve to be flamed

[mzmolly]

249. Hell

no.

[name not needed]

250. Thanks. Now I know to disregard anything you say in the future.

[Warren DeMontague]

252. No fucking way. It's not a "deal". He passed the law, he won 2 fucking elections.

Elections have fucking consequences. They want to shut the fucking government down and shoot themselves in the foot like they did in 1995, fine. LET THEM.

Let the American people see, again, what a bunch of asinine fucking maniacs they are with absolutely ZERO interest in the well being of the American People, and maybe throw some of these tea party turds out on their ass next November.

[arthritisR_US]

253. Looking at the history of how the gluttonous

party has "negotiated" to date with this President, your entire OP is simplistic to the rediculous and unrealistic.

[LeftyMom]

254. The deal is dropping women's coverage for preventative care.

Not only no but hell no.

[Jamastiene]

255. Geez, even I disagree with this.

I have been a vocal opponent of the mandate and the loophole for those of us who will fall through the cracks because our state governments will not allow us to use Medicaid, but even I disagree with your proposal.

If we give in the the Republicans and their anti-American government hostage taking now, it will reward their behavior and make them repeat it. Don't reward bad behavior unless you want them to continue to use that tactic over and over again. It would be bad for the country to let them get away with this temper tantrum.

[msanthrope]

259. Congratulations!!! You have managed to unite the board. nt

[Rowdyboy]

270. And they said it couldn't be done!

[LondonReign2]

260. Derp

[cthulu2016]

261. Since this thread has become a de facto petition

to state the opposite of the OP message, I ad my name to those saying "WTF?"

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

271. Yes. WFT?

[Orsino]

263. And the next deal, too? And the one after that? n/t

[R. Daneel Olivaw]

268. NO FUCKING COMPROMISE!

That is why we are where we are right now: from compromising with the crazies.

[Rowdyboy]

269. Not no but HELL NO! No compromise with terrorists now or ever again. Fuck the deal and fuck

the Republicans.

[awoke_in_2003]

273. The president should...

tell House republicans to go pound sand up their asses.

[KamaAina]

274. What is the "Accordable Care Act"?

[onecent]

276. Nope! It is time for Obama to grow some balls.....

fuck the republicans.....I am sick of them eating their own....and our own,

[charlie and algernon]

277. Steve Carrell said it best:

[tallahasseedem]

278. Oh FFS...

No he should not.

[highprincipleswork]

281. No, he should not.

Extortion just leads to more extortion.

It is long past time when "no negotiating" should really mean "no negotiating".

He has said it perfectly.
"I will not negotiate on anything when it comes to the full faith and credit of the United States of America."

Best thing he has said in some time.

I truly do expect this to continue to be the case, and I would urge all DUers to do all they can to make sure this is the case.

We truly do need to take firm stands on things like this that matter, or else our stands mean nothing at all, and we can just give away the farm, little by little, as we have been doing for too long.

[DonCoquixote]

282. HELL NO!

Look, as is, the Democratic brand has been rendered useless, due to the fact that whenever the GOP bare their teeth, folks from the blue dog/clinton/obama faction try to make nice, even as the GOP bares their fangs into our flesh! If there is a cave, the left will be dead, and the TEA party will become the master of Americna politics, which is a nice way of saying the rich will have bought themselves the entire government, lock, stock and barrel! What was unthinkable this year will becoem standard, as you know damned well they want to get rid of social security, voting rights, and public education. Let the Tea Party win, and this place will resemble some sick Ayn Rand fetish porn, with the rich killing and raping at will!

This is about 2014, and 2016. If we let the GOP win, the tea party will know they can stop any president, even Hillary, from doing anything. Hell, they probably already have the knives out for any GOP president to the microscopic-sized right of Rand Paul!