Congress is the only one that can pass a budget: True or False?

[kentuck]

Last edited Sun Sep 29, 2013, 01:07 PM - Edit history (1)

The House can send it to the Senate for reconciliation but then it must come back to the House. If both the House and the Senate pass it, the President can veto it. But, in any event, it always comes back to the House. They are the ones that are responsible for passing the final budget.

The media does not make this clear to people. The House blames Obama and the Senate blames John Boehner and the Republicans in the House blame Harry Reid but it is all malarkey. It is the job of the House of Representatives to pass a budget. They may not like it but that is their responsibility. The President cannot pass a budget. The Senate cannot pass a budget. Only the House can pass a budget.

Who is to blame if the government shuts down? The only ones that are authorized to pass a budget is the House of Representatives.

Republicans cannot be allowed to share the blame with the Democrats on this matter and the media must be held to account to make sure it is reported accurately.

[Warren Stupidity]

1. If by "congress" you mean "house of rep."

My understanding is that revenue bills have to originate in the house but that this restriction is easily circumvented in the senate by taking any dormant house bill and stripping its contents and replacing that with a senate revenue bill.

[kentuck]

2. It is my understanding...

...that if any changes at all happen in the Senate, it must go back to the House for reconciliation? It may be that they can reconcile it in Committee? But if unable to reconcile, it must return to the House? They are the only authority in the Constitution as I read it.

[Tidy Cat]

4. That's correct.

The House bill goes to the Senate where the they approve with or without any changes, if no changes are made to the original House bill, then it goes on to the president for either signing or a veto, if the Senate changes any portion of the bill, it then goes back to the House for reconciliation.

[Warren Stupidity]

8. Any changes by either chamber go to reconciliation.

The constitutional requirement is on where revenue bills originate. See here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Origination_Clause

Note that it is not clear to me at all that a bill that raises the debt ceiling is in fact covered by the origination clause.

[kentuck]

10. I would think that raising the debt limit would be considered a "revenue bill"...

and should originate in the House.

But the important point is that it must end up in the House for final passage. No one else has that authority. Not the Senate and not the President. The Senate can amend the House bill but even that must return to the House. The House is the final authority.

[oldhippie]

12. I guess I don't know what you mean by "final authority" ...

There isn't any "final authority." Any bill, originating in either house, if amended by the other, goes back to the other house for another vote. If the House sends something to the Senate and the Senate changes something, it goes back to the House. If they change something else it has to go back to the Senate. Both houses must agree to whatever language goes to the president for signature. I don't see how either house has "final authority" as they both must vote to agree to the same bill.

The only stipulation is that revenue bills must originate in the House. After that it is the same as any other bill.

[kentuck]

16. If there are any changes at all...

it returns to the House. They are the final authority. Revenue bills originate and end there.

If they cannot get the Senate to agree with them, it is up to them to figure out a way. That is their job.

[oldhippie]

18. And if the house changes it, it goes back to the Senate

I don't see any "final authority." Once the Senate agrees with the last House version it goes tot he President. It doesn't need to go back to the House if they have already agreed.

If they cannot get the Senate to agree with them, it is up to them to figure out a way. That is their job.

I don't believe I have seen that provision anywhere in the Constitution.

[kentuck]

19. Because the bill will always return to the House if there is any disagreement.

You are correct that the Senate must agree with the House before it can go to the President. But, for example, if the Senate disagrees with the present House version, they will send it back to the House. It always comes back to the House. It's a circular argument. This does not minimize the Senate's role but the authority to pass a final budget lies with the House of Representatives. It is their duty to find compromise. Otherwise, why is it not more Harry Reid's fault than John Boehner?

[oldhippie]

20. OK. I don't understand your logic, but .....

I don't want to spend anymore time on it. When you say "It always comes back to the House.", it doesn't. If the Senates agrees to what the House sent over, it doesn't "come back to the House."

I think I understand what you are trying to do, but your logic escapes me. But that's OK. I'm going back to football.

[kentuck]

21. Me too.

And I see your point, also.

Go Broncos!

[Warren Stupidity]

22. By itself raising the debt ceiling does not

Last edited Mon Sep 30, 2013, 09:39 AM - Edit history (1)

Raise revenue. In fact it does the opposite, it increases debt. However, as I pointed out even origination is at this point a fiction, and there is no concept of a final authority, as you are attempting to claim, either in the constitution or in practice.

[Recursion]

15. Realistically every bill passed in modern times has a joint conference committee or reconciliation

Actually a lot of the "how a bill becomes a law" we learned as kids has been kind of rendered moot by the modern legislative process.

[Wounded Bear]

3. Both houses have to pass any bill before the Pres can sign/veto it...

The House and the Senate have to agree, that's why they have conference committees, to work out differences in bills before they are presented for presidential approval.

Currently, we have the crazies in the House controlling their side of the agenda, with the sane people in the Senate trying to moderate them. I don't see how they can reconcile in time. It seems very unlikely.

[kentuck]

5. I guess it is fair to say...

...it must originate and end with the House?

[oldhippie]

7. If by "end with the House" you mean ......

.... that they must agree with the final language, yes. What goes to the President must be approved by both houses, for any bill.

[kentuck]

11. Yes.

The final authority lies with the House. No one else. Important point.

[oldhippie]

14. How is the House's authority any more final than the Senate's?

Both houses must agree and approve the final bill. If the House changes something the Senate still has to agree and vote to approve for it to go forward. How does one house have more "authority?" If the Senate votes to approve the bill sent over from the house it goes to the President. It doesn't go back to the House again.

[kentuck]

17. Yes, if there are no changes.

But bills originate in the House. And any changes made must come back to the House. Because they were assumed to be more the voice of the people.

[Yo_Mama]

25. No.

Both Senate, House and President must concur on a bill for it to pass, or the House and Senate together may overrule with two-thirds majority vote (enumerated by name).

Or the House and Senate can agree, and if the President neither signs nor vetoes within ten days, it will become law.

[oldhippie]

6. Just for accuracy and consistency, the Congress includes the Senate

All legislative Powers herein granted shall be vested in a Congress of the United States, which shall consist of a Senate and House of Representatives.

All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills.

http://www.archives.gov/exhibits/charters/constitution_transcript.html

[kentuck]

9. True...

Force of habit, we call Representatives "Congressmen" and Senators "Senators" but the "Congress" includes both houses of Congress.

I will edit for clarification.

[shraby]

13. When the senate and house finally agree on the language

in the bill, both versions must have the exact same language to a t.

[bvar22]

23. And yet the Republicans were on Press the Meat today claiming....

...that it is The Democrats who want to Shutdown the Government because it would give them a Campaign Issue in 2014.

WTF???
These people are complete Sociopaths without an ounce of shame.

I had to stop watching Press the Meat during the Bush Administration
for Health & Sanity Reasons, and just glanced at it this AM while lining up my Football Schedule and nearly blew my top. I'm glad it is not possible to reach through your TV and strangle someone.



You will know them by their [font size=3]WORKS.[/font]

[Yo_Mama]

24. Budgets must be agreed to by Senate & President

A presidential veto can be overridden by a two-thirds majority.

It is a collective responsibility. The House only has to originate the revenue bill, which it has. The Senate may amend it.

All bills for raising revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with amendments as on other Bills.

Every bill which shall have passed the House of Representatives and the Senate, shall, before it become a law, be presented to the President of the United States; if he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his objections to that House in which it shall have originated, who shall enter the objections at large on their journal, and proceed to reconsider it. If after such reconsideration two thirds of that House shall agree to pass the bill, it shall be sent, together with the objections, to the other House, by which it shall likewise be reconsidered, and if approved by two thirds of that House, it shall become a law. But in all such cases the votes of both Houses shall be determined by yeas and nays, and the names of the persons voting for and against the bill shall be entered on the journal of each House respectively. If any bill shall not be returned by the President within ten days (Sundays excepted) after it shall have been presented to him, the same shall be a law, in like manner as if he had signed it, unless the Congress by their adjournment prevent its return, in which case it shall not be a law.