The Republicans have painted all of us into a corner.

[kentuck]

Neither side can concede an inch on the government shutdown for fear of political repercussions. And rightfully so.

The government will shut down but the question will be for how long?

It is suicide for the Republicans if they do not get something in return for their bluster and foolhardiness.

So both sides have to figure out a "compromise" of sorts where both sides win. Otherwise, the shutdown could go on a while. And the propaganda will grow violently loud with each side blaming the other until one side blinks.

If the markets start reacting very negatively to the shutdown, the pressure will grow on both sides to compromise.

We haven't seen anything yet. This could get very nasty.

[MannyGoldstein]

1. As a group, the Republicans are bullies, and bullies are weak

Punch 'em in the nose and they go away.

Unfortunately, almost no elected Democrats want to punch them in the nose.

[Decaffeinated]

20. What do you consider to be the political equivalent of a nose punch?

[MannyGoldstein]

23. Pick an elected Republican and destroy him or her.

Pull all funding from his or her district. Do every thing you can to make sure that they're persona non grata in their district. Make it clear to everyone that contributing to that person's re-election, or hiring them after they're out of office, will result in bad things happening.

Start a real effort to end gerrymandering. A real effort, not an FDR effort.

Use every speech as an opportunity to remind listeners that the Republicans are almost solely responsible for all of our trouble. Use simple, clear, mean words.

[Niceguy1]

30. wouldn't

That hurt the people who live in that district? And in the end the people who would do that are no different than the pubes.

[MannyGoldstein]

33. Yes. Until they elect someone new.

It's awful, but people will be hurt no matter what we do at this point. We're trying to minimize casualties because we can't avoid them.

[Niceguy1]

35. singling out

A district isn't minimumizing the casualties, its being a bully. And no different than the republicans. We can do better......

[MannyGoldstein]

36. Single out the Republican, not the district

A Republican who's particularly awful.

When you're dealing with bullies, there's little choice but to hit back hard. If his constituents voted for a noxious individual, there's a price to pay.

It's much different than what Republicans do, because its self defense. If someone shoots a gun at me and wounds me, then I pull my (nonexistent) gun and shoot the other fellow dead, does that make me a murder?

[Niceguy1]

37. you can't defund

An entire district and not hurt the poor. That just not very progressive.

[MannyGoldstein]

42. There's a war against the poor today

Many poor will be sick or die because of today's policies. Should we allow them to get worse?

War is never without collateral damage. Very sad.

[Niceguy1]

43. sounds

Very repubeican to me..

[MoonRiver]

32. Lyndon Johnson did this kind of thing all the time.

Wasn't nice, wasn't pretty, but it WORKED.

[MannyGoldstein]

34. Boy. Did. It. Work.

He passed ALL of JFK's civil rights legislation, when the "experts" said it could never happen. And he passed a little health insurance program called "Medicare".

[MoonRiver]

39. No Democrat since then has had the guts to use Johnson's methods.

But I think the Thugs must have written a political textbook about his tactics.

[pinboy3niner]

2. On the contrary, the Republicans have painted THEMSELVES into a corner

They will be struggling to find a face-saving way out...

[steve2470]

3. I agree

Until the 1990's, I'm not aware of any party pulling this kind of BS. That's two hundred years of governance without blackmail. I think, once again, the R's are the big losers, just as in the nineties.

[truebluegreen]

26. Agree. Probably why they felt the need to get drunk.

When you are driving off a cliff, it won't soften the landing but you might not notice so much.

[BootinUp]

4. If the pukes hold out longer than 2 weeks I'll be surprised. nt

[Motown_Johnny]

5. I think it is bigger than just this fight.

They all bet that they could kill Health Care Reform years ago, they lost that bet. Now they need to pay up and take the political hit. The thing is that they don't have the standing needed to pay that debt. They are already in minority standing and the demographic shift in this country is making things worse for them every single day.

This fight is really their last shot, and some of them know it.

If they can establish a precedent where they can project their will onto the nation while being a minority party then they will use that tactic every chance they get. It will be how they "govern" for decades to come.

This could get very nasty because we can't let them establish that precedent and they feel that they must.

I don't want a shut down, but I want to give into their demands even less.

[Liberalynn]

19. Totally in agreement with what you have said here.

[Coyotl]

6. You are completely wrong on this one. The Republicans have to cave this time.

Either that, or lose more than just control of the House in 2014.

[pinboy3niner]

7. + A brazillion! nt

[steve2470]

8. yep ! nt

[Pretzel_Warrior]

9. Not sure why you are so negative on this

There is a REASON the pukes are DEMANDING the Dems negotiate and Dems are like, nah...we're good.

There is a fat, hateful elephant painted into a corner.

[kentuck]

11. The media..

...will not permit the responsible Party to be identified. Repubs have been planning repeal of Obamacare since their meeting the night the President was re-elected.

[DinahMoeHum]

10. Today's GOPigs = tomorrow's bacon

n/t

[MoonRiver]

40. Please don't insult the noble pig by comparing him to a Puke.

[sufrommich]

12. No, give nothing in return,no comprimise.

The republicans have shown us time and time again that they see compromise as weakness and no matter how much dems compromise,it's not enough. It's time to learn that lesson and stop taking the bait.

[Liberalynn]

21. +1

[Adrahil]

38. I hate to say it, but yup.

If we give them ANYTHING, they'll see such tactics as successful and entirely legitimized. Make them own this and make them back down (they will). Same with the debt ceiling. Make them shoot the hostage so everyone sees them for what they are.

[Marrah_G]

13. Will this shutdown effect defense contrators or oil/gas companies?

or big banks?

[kentuck]

14. no

It is an exaggerated partial shutdown

[Marrah_G]

15. Then it will probably last a while

The republicans will only cave if their corporate masters demand it.

[kentuck]

16. Yep

I suspect so.

[truebluegreen]

27. I think they will carry on until they bump into the debt ceiling

and then the big money boyz will rein them in. We need to flay them in the media in the meantime.

[kentuck]

28. I think you are right...

This is not a catastrophic shutdown. It is more of a partial shutdown. But, it is still a very serious matter.

They will talk and bullshit right up 'til the debt limit vote would be my bet. Then they will figure out some type of compromise to keep government running a very short time.

However, one thing we should keep in mind. When you wrestle with pigs, you get all dirty and muddy and the pigs love it...

[truebluegreen]

44. I think if they go that far, their party will split--

between the crazies and the big money boyz. That would have to be a good thing.

[BumRushDaShow]

18. Where are you getting "no" from?

Or are you just assuming?

The main way to "save" any Defense contractor pay, etc., is if the Senate agreed to Boner's other bill -

For now, top Democrats have no plans to take up the House-passed Military Pay Protection Act, a measure to exempt service members, some defense civilian employees and some defense contractors from delayed pay during a shutdown. However, Sen. Tim Kaine, D-Va., said Sunday that he expects the Senate will pass it.

Other than giving troops and their families a little peace of mind, there is no immediate need to pass the pay measure, HR 3210. Defense officials said Friday they would need government funding restored by about Oct. 7, maybe as late as Oct. 9, in order to process the Oct. 15 military payroll.

The Pay Our Military Act passed the House early Sunday on a 423-0 vote. But there is mixed support for the pay protection bill because it keeps only some people from missing a payday in a shutdown.

The pay bill is designed to cover uniformed services members and Defense Department and Homeland Security Department civilians and contractors work in support of troops. It does not extend to any other federal agencies or to anyone else dependent on government income.

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130930/DEFREG02/309300018/Shutdown-Looms-Midnight-Military-Pay-Protection-Uncertain

Most feds will get that last paycheck some time in October but after that (assuming the shutdown continues), then that would be it for everyone not getting funded by fees or taxes, and that includes defense contractors if that other bill is not passed by the Senate.

The whole issue here is that we are in somewhat new territory. During the most recent previous shutdowns, the MIC always had their appropriation up and running (that one was always one of the first that Congress would agree to). This time, NONE of the appropriations were completed.

[kentuck]

24. They will not withhold pay from the military...

That would be surprising.

[SomethingFishy]

31. Actually they won't unless the "Pay our Military Act" is voted in..

http://www.defensenews.com/article/20130929/DEFREG02/309290003/US-House-Votes-Protect-Military-Pay-Shutdown-Looks-More-Likely
WASHINGTON — The US House of Representatives doubled down early Sunday on a threat to shut down the federal government unless the White House agrees to a one-year delay in the health care law known as Obamacare.

Accompanying their newest short-term funding bill is free-standing measure promising military members, some federal civilians and some federal contractors will be paid even if funds for other government operations expire. Passage of the military pay protection bill shows “we are getting closer and closer to a shutdown,” said Rep. Frank Pallone, D-N.Y.

The military pay bill passed 423-0 after an hours-long debate on the government shutdown that started Saturday evening. The House took two votes on the government funding bill, delaying Obamacare for one year and rejecting a medical device tax that was part of the bill.

If it became law, the Pay our Military Act, the bill, HR 3210, would remove some of the political backlash that would face lawmakers if they fail to pass an appropriations bill to keep the federal government running when the new fiscal year begins on Oct. 1. Keeping the military paid has been a big motivator in the tense spending negotiations.

I notice that they have to pass a bill to make sure soldiers get paid but Congress and the Senate get their money no matter what...

[ljm2002]

17. I say NO "compromise"...

...it is ridiculous on its face. The Republicans are trying to extort concessions, and you cannot give in to such tactics, or they will continue to employ them. It is really that simple.

[Liberalynn]

22. This

[sofa king]

25. I say this every time:

The circumstantial evidence suggests that when a shutdown or other Congressionally-generated economic crisis looms, some secret provision kicks in, the President calls the House and Senate leadership into a closed and confidential session, and the Republicans come out declaring victory and endorsing the President's plan.

This time, however, I never even bothered to document the relevant facts because I'm tired of explaining how it's going to play out and being ridiculed for it for months or years. But right now I'm looking at the President outlining his own plan, which in a nutshell is:

* The Senate already has a CR in front of them that the President supports;

* The President wants to make it less easy for the economy to be disrupted by idiot Republicans;

* The President foresees the possibility of default, which he is required by law to prevent.

My conclusion is that this statement is telegraphing some sort of procedural move which probably includes averting a shutdown, or reducing its length of time, and prevents Republicans from repeating the tactic with the debt ceiling next month.

[CTyankee]

29. If he does take the procedural route the repukes will pass an impeachment resolution in

the House. We'll avert the default but Obama will face a long, drawn out impeachment process and it will drain energy away from his agenda. I'm sure the rethugs love that scenario because it keeps them in the spotlight longer, but hopefully by then a whole bunch of them will get voted out in 2014. Still, it could mean a big swath of a year cut out of Obama's second term and that would be a shame.

[AgingAmerican]

41. Give in to extortion again?

Every time Dems compromise they get weaker and lose more independents and young people. Every time they compromise they move the party further to the right. Every time Obama and the Demos compromise the Republicans get bolder and bolder in their threats. Given a choice between the Republicans and a party that acts like the Republicans, Independents will vote for the real Republicans every time.